Is ASL Fading Away or Not?

Flip,
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But OK, I'll join you for a little longer..... it's good info..

flip said:
Ok, we agree that a child should be allowed to take it off. This doctor told the parents to NOT let the child take it off, even if the child ask to... Is this acceptable?
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The way you are reading it, the child has to sleep with the CI on. Do you really think this is the intention of the doctor?

It's all relative... isn't it. It's not as ridget as you make it out to be..

If the childs wants to take it off within the hour, I would not allow it. At the end of a day filled with sound, I would.

Now, with a child that signs as well; in order to benefit from CI, it is important that the child learns to listen to speech as much as possible. In the beginning this might be a problem since the child knows to communicate with sign.
When CI is taken off a lot, and sign is used, learning to hear and understand speech is delayed. My guess is that the comment has to be seen in that light.

Does that make sense?
 
Cloggy said:
Flip,
offtopic.gif
But OK, I'll join you for a little longer..... it's good info..

The way you are reading it, the child has to sleep with the CI on. Do you really think this is the intention of the doctor?

It's all relative... isn't it. It's not as ridget as you make it out to be..

If the childs wants to take it off within the hour, I would not allow it. At the end of a day filled with sound, I would.

Now, with a child that signs as well; in order to benefit from CI, it is important that the child learns to listen to speech as much as possible. In the beginning this might be a problem since the child knows to communicate with sign.
When CI is taken off a lot, and sign is used, learning to hear and understand speech is delayed. My guess is that the comment has to be seen in that light.

Does that make sense?
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Sure, that makes some sense, and can be a cause of this episode.

The kid is not sleeping with is as far as I know :)

I am not going to ask you where you got the idea that signing is going to hurt speech, but I find it strange that this kid is nine years old, and never complained about HA before CI. We see that deaf adults sometimes complains about CI, and stop using them, and everyone understands very well. If the child is old enough to complain, is it really legal to ignore the complains?

Also, I am curious what age a child can deny an CI implant? Someone said the age of 12?

I would not say this is totally offtopic as arguments like "no signing" are brought up with this kind of CI use.
 
Great - we're on-topic.... I'll take your word for it.

flip said:
Sure, that makes some sense, and can be a cause of this episode.

The kid is not sleeping with is as far as I know :)

I am not going to ask you where you got the idea that signing is going to hurt speech, but I find it strange that this kid is nine years old, and never complained about HA before CI. We see that deaf adults sometimes complains about CI, and stop using them, and everyone understands very well. If the child is old enough to complain, is it really legal to ignore the complains?

Also, I am curious what age a child can deny an CI implant? Someone said the age of 12?

I would not say this is totally offtopic as arguments like "no signing" are brought up with this kind of CI use.
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Now you throw in 9 years old... ask him/her why he/she wants to take it off...

flip said:
I am not going to ask you where you got the idea that signing is going to hurt speech"
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That's a first...... what's holding you back? - I'll reply anyway...
Remember that exposure to signlanguage is the best way to learn signlanguage?
The same for speech. When the someone takes off the CI, exposure to speech stops....

Makes sense?
 
Cloggy said:
Great - we're on-topic.... I'll take your word for it.

Now you throw in 9 years old... ask him/her why he/she wants to take it off...

That's a first...... what's holding you back? - I'll reply anyway...
Remember that exposure to signlanguage is the best way to learn signlanguage?
The same for speech. When the someone takes off the CI, exposure to speech stops....

Makes sense?
Click to expand...

I don't know this kid very well, but noticed he said he did not want to wear it because the batteries was empty, but they was measured to be ok. My mistake I did not mention he was nine years old before!

The no-CI no-speech stuff does not make sense to me. The best speechers are often those raised bilingual from what I have seen, and I know deaf people that are too deaf for HA and CI that can speak and lipread ok.

But agree that CI can help with speech and listening in the early years if the child is comfortable with the device and enjoy the skills.
 
flip said:
I don't know this kid very well, but noticed he said he did not want to wear it because the batteries was empty, but they was measured to be ok. ......
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It's easy to check if the CI works. Parents have a separate wire with earplug to see if it works. And when not, the audi would quicly find out.
Sounds to me the kid is just not motivated to hear.
But, at 9 years old, I would press to keep trying it..... money normally works :)


flip said:
The no-CI no-speech stuff does not make sense to me. The best speechers are often those raised bilingual from what I have seen, and I know deaf people that are too deaf for HA and CI that can speak and lipread ok.
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I was talking about young children, implanted before they learned speech..

You notice how lack of information causes confusion?
 
flip said:
I agree that's a good approach under todays circumstances for teachers in deaf schools, when facing this kind of parents.

But I find it cruel to see children forced to wear CI all the time, even when they ask to put if off, either because they want a rest or because they do not like it. A doctor told the parents and teachers to not let a new impanted child with sign language competence put of the CI, else the child could develop a bad habit of not wearing CI.

I wonder if this is child abuse? Are there other similar situations where children are forced to use technology against their will legally?
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That kind of practice and misinformation by the doctor is what I get upset with.
 
Just out of curiosity, did anyone click on the URL I provided way back in post # 8?
 
Tousi said:
Just out of curiosity, did anyone click on the URL I provided way back in post # 8?
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Yea I did but for some reason, I was unable to open the other parts of it. :(
 
Cloggy said:
Allready now there are fewer children that will grow up with ASL. Older people that become deaf and previously might have needed ASL, now can choose for CI.
With that, there will be less need for ASL. Fewer deaf (and hearing) people will depend on it.

The increase in people studying it is wonderful.
Signlanguage will allways be the natural language for deaf people, so with that it will never disapear. But, I think that in the long run ASL will be used by only a few people.
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ASL is the third most learned second langauge in the U.S. Evidently, there are quite a few still using it. And in those still using it, CI users are among the numbers.

Late deafened individuals have, historically, never relied on ASL as a group.
 
flip said:
The no-CI no-speech stuff does not make sense to me. The best speechers are often those raised bilingual from what I have seen, and I know deaf people that are too deaf for HA and CI that can speak and lipread ok..
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Agreed! It doesn't make no sense to me either about no-CI no-speech. I don't have CI but I can speak and lip-reading with and without the use of hearing aids.

Cloggy said:
Allready now there are fewer children that will grow up with ASL. Older people that become deaf and previously might have needed ASL, now can choose for CI.
With that, there will be less need for ASL. Fewer deaf (and hearing) people will depend on it.

The increase in people studying it is wonderful.
Signlanguage will allways be the natural language for deaf people, so with that it will never disapear. But, I think that in the long run ASL will be used by only a few people
Click to expand...
That is because the majority of deaf children over 90% are born to hearing parents, that explains why the use of signs are lesser and that many of these deaf children grow up in a hearing environment, and not half/half hearing/deaf-culture environment. :(
 
Cloggy said:
Flip,
offtopic.gif
But OK, I'll join you for a little longer..... it's good info..

The way you are reading it, the child has to sleep with the CI on. Do you really think this is the intention of the doctor?

It's all relative... isn't it. It's not as ridget as you make it out to be..

If the childs wants to take it off within the hour, I would not allow it. At the end of a day filled with sound, I would.

Now, with a child that signs as well; in order to benefit from CI, it is important that the child learns to listen to speech as much as possible. In the beginning this might be a problem since the child knows to communicate with sign.
When CI is taken off a lot, and sign is used, learning to hear and understand speech is delayed. My guess is that the comment has to be seen in that light.

Does that make sense?
Click to expand...

What's ridget?

The use of CI does not prohibit listening or the use of oral skills. In fact, the use af ASL facilitates such, as has been shown in the voluminous research that indicates that the children with the best oral skills are also the children with the best signing skills.
 
Cheri said:
Agreed! It doesn't make no sense to me either about no-CI no-speech. I don't have CI but I can speak and lip-reading with and without the use of hearing aids.


That is because the majority of deaf children over 90% are born to hearing parents, that explains why the use of signs are lesser and that many of these deaf children grow up in a hearing environment, and not half/half hearing/deaf-culture environment. :(
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And historically, deaf children of hearing parents have not had the advantage of sign. Hearing parents have always been reluctant to use sign. That is why so many deaf children grow up to learn sign as adults, once their communication method is no longer under their parent's control. And I don't see the population of deaf adults using sign decreasing. In fact, ASL is the third most learned language in the United States. So, if deaf children raised orally are growing up to learn sign because they find it an advantage in their communication, it tells me that the oral environment us leaving something out that deaf individuals find valuable.
 
flip said:
I don't know this kid very well, but noticed he said he did not want to wear it because the batteries was empty, but they was measured to be ok. My mistake I did not mention he was nine years old before!

The no-CI no-speech stuff does not make sense to me. The best speechers are often those raised bilingual from what I have seen, and I know deaf people that are too deaf for HA and CI that can speak and lipread ok.

But agree that CI can help with speech and listening in the early years if the child is comfortable with the device and enjoy the skills.
Click to expand...

I know! That does not make sense but that seems to be the new view these days. Parents are being told that if they want their child to develop speech skills, get them implanted. They are forgetting the fact that numerous of deaf people without CIs were able to develop speech skills. I think it is a ploy by the audis and doctors and just continue to give parents more false information.
 
Cloggy said:
Great - we're on-topic.... I'll take your word for it.

Now you throw in 9 years old... ask him/her why he/she wants to take it off...

That's a first...... what's holding you back? - I'll reply anyway...
Remember that exposure to signlanguage is the best way to learn signlanguage?
The same for speech. When the someone takes off the CI, exposure to speech stops....

Makes sense?
Click to expand...

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. That's because they are STILL DEAF. And restricted from oral information, which means that, in order to communicate effectively AT ALL TIMES, sign needs to be included in their communication tools.

Likewise, not every child or adult with CI is able to access communication through speech.
 
jillio said:
And historically, deaf children of hearing parents have not had the advantage of sign. Hearing parents have always been reluctant to use sign. That is why so many deaf children grow up to learn sign as adults, once their communication method is no longer under their parent's control. And I don't see the population of deaf adults using sign decreasing. In fact, ASL is the third most learned language in the United States. So, if deaf children raised orally are growing up to learn sign because they find it an advantage in their communication, it tells me that the oral environment us leaving something out that deaf individuals find valuable.
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and u know what is so sad? That hearing kids are being enrolled in signing classes cuz their hearing parents see the value of communicating with their children before they start talking. Many parents of deaf kids seem to be more in denial or brainwashed by the oralists.
 
shel90 said:
and u know what is so sad? That hearing kids are being enrolled in signing classes cuz their hearing parents see the value of communicating with their children before they start talking. Many parents of deaf kids seem to be more in denial or brainwashed by the oralists.
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Exactly. The hearing parents of hearing children are not biased against sign because they have not been subjected to the professionals who try to scare them away from ASL. But the hearing parents of deaf children have been told the opposite. That signing will actually enhance the communcation and linguistic development of their children. Since my thread on information to parents has been locked thanks to certain posters inability to remain civil and on topic, I can't go back there to pull posts, but this is exactly what I was illustrating in that OP.
 
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