Interpreter's salary

Ah, I see someone has been pulling the "you're not deaf, you don't understand" card. Classic "poor me, I'm the victim" behavior. NEXT!
 
Jasin,
I have been suprised at your reaction to Jillo, while at the same time I am NOT suprised with your reaction to the injustice which you speak of. (thus I agree there is too much of a loophole here and there).

Jillio might not have first hand experience as a deaf person, but indeed she have had first hand experience as a MOTHER of a d/Deaf child. She very went thus far to support him right through a deal lot more than some people have, like some stauch oralist, Jill refused to be a cruel hearie pushing her son to be something which he is not. Jillio has firt hand experience as a fully supportive hearing parent of a Deaf child, so its a really strong version of a second-hand experience, perhaps ever first hand in some occassions, like direct conflict with someone or some schools, she jsut hasnt told you (or me either but I'm sure she has some fair share of it)

I have great admiration for this, also she's an academic in education, and is aware of how somethings on campus, in schools are recognised as not favourable. i think Jill is try to show you something that, on the 'why' this ignorance/injustice continues as liek she said - mainly because there is lack of obligation, set alreay down by campus rules - < PROBABLY done deliberately to prevent costly lawsuits which may and may not be found true (both ways as there are such things as mistaken perception on the students' part as much as other circumstances there may well be failure to recognise a mistake(s) on part of the lecturer/even administrator (but this one is a lot harder to uncover, which take alot of luck and experience). Guess what I dont like it either, and I agree with you there should be some stronger rules to prevent problems which is all too common for d/Deaf students trying to get a fairer deal in tertary education and beyond.

I do emphasise fairly warmly to what you are saying Jasin, you are bright but sometimes you can be stubborn, as what I have to say now, Jill was right, there are times when you DON'T need to read between lines, it is right there. Once the spark dawn upon your horizon, you'd go Ah ha !. and probably feel embarrassed (I would be too, frankly Ive embarrassed myself alot, trust me, even right here in AD)

I am not Jill's side or others, or yours, the truth is Im on both of your sides, because 'knowing' you two, and your views on how hearing people/institution opppresses d/Deaf people are very similar.

I do sometimes find Jillio hard to understand becuase she sees from a psychologist view whereas I see from a sociologist view, but there are overlaps , and she is more advanced than me, even though I am post-graduate right now.

indeed i seem to be taking a neutral ground, thats because it's exactly what Im doing, and honesty I cant see how Jill says you're a liar. That is a classic defensive behaviour, its not needed in fact she was POINTING OUT AT how things are, like she does agre with you there's some undesirable treatments in universities, by stating the technicality of this sort of problems. It is not the same as denying as a real problems, she knows !, while at the same time this technical description she attempts to share with you is also a way of telling you to be mindful its not the same for very educational institutions (or anywhere, including hospitals) Like maybe one hospitals dismisses the seriousness of a type of cancer in a certain advanced stage might be different in another, as this could be due to a particular doctor's experience and their ability to trust their own judgement as well as confidence. Again it really takes maturity and careful delibration to see if you actually recognise something is wrong, rather than being an unwitting thrillseeker for dramas.

I do emphasise with your case, quite strongly, and while yes there are such things as you did noticed their attitudes and some tactics they employ, and indeed its bloody hard to prove it, as does there are time when it is valid, I feel you are trying to surpass your own experience but it is good that you do recognise a pattern, but this pattern does not fit in here. Here is one of your example, from right in this thread;

Read between the lines! When someone comes on here and tries to contradict every statement someone makes about something someone experienced they are in effect calling that person a liar.

just in this instance, you are over-analyising which makes it hard to stand back, switch off , pretend you are someone else reading through this thread, try it you might be surprised.

Cheers
 
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Grummer said:
Jasin,
I have been suprised at your reaction to Jillo, while at the same time I am NOT suprised with your reaction to the injustice which you speak of. (thus I agree there is too much of a loophole here and there).

Jillio might not have first hand experience as a deaf person, but indeed she have had first hand experience as a MOTHER of a d/Deaf child. She very went thus far to support him right through a deal lot more than some people have, like some stauch oralist, Jill refused to be a cruel hearie pushing her son to be something which he is not. Jillio has firt hand experience as a fully supportive hearing parent of a Deaf child, so its a really strong version of a second-hand experience, perhaps ever first hand in some occassions, like direct conflict with someone or some schools, she jsut hasnt told you (or me either but I'm sure she has some fair share of it)

I have great admiration for this, also she's an academic in education, and is aware of how somethings on campus, in schools are recognised as not favourable. i think Jill is try to show you something that, on the 'why' this ignorance/injustice continues as liek she said - mainly because there is lack of obligation, set alreay down by campus rules - < PROBABLY done deliberately to prevent costly lawsuits which may and may not be found true (both ways as there are such things as mistaken perception on the students' part as much as other circumstances there may well be failure to recognise a mistake(s) on part of the lecturer/even administrator (but this one is a lot harder to uncover, which take alot of luck and experience). Guess what I dont like it either, and I agree with you there should be some stronger rules to prevent problems which is all too common for d/Deaf students trying to get a fairer deal in tertary education and beyond.

I do emphasise fairly warmly to what you are saying Jasin, you are bright but sometimes you can be stubborn, as what I have to say now, Jill was right, there are times when you DON'T need to read between lines, it is right there. Once the spark dawn upon your horizon, you'd go Ah ha !. and probably feel embarrassed (I would be too, frankly Ive embarrassed myself alot, trust me, even right here in AD)

I am not Jill's side or others, or yours, the truth is Im on both of your sides, because 'knowing' you two, and your views on how hearing people/institution opppresses d/Deaf people are very similar.

I do sometimes find Jillio hard to understand becuase she sees from a psychologist view whereas I see from a sociologist view, but there are overlaps , and she is more advanced than me, even though I am post-graduate right now.

indeed i seem to be taking a neutral ground, thats because it's exactly what Im doing, and honesty I cant see how Jill says you're a liar. That is a classic defensive behaviour, its not needed in fact she was POINTING OUT AT how things are, like she does agre with you there's some undesirable treatments in universities, by stating the technicality of this sort of problems. It is not the same as denying as a real problems, she knows !, while at the same time this technical description she attempts to share with you is also a way of telling you to be mindful its not the same for very educational institutions (or anywhere, including hospitals) Like maybe one hospitals dismisses the seriousness of a type of cancer in a certain advanced stage might be different in another, as this could be due to a particular doctor's experience and their ability to trust their own judgement as well as confidence. Again it really takes maturity and careful delibration to see if you actually recognise something is wrong, rather than being an unwitting thrillseeker for dramas.

I do emphasise with your case, quite strongly, and while yes there are such things as you did noticed their attitudes and some tactics they employ, and indeed its bloody hard to prove it, as does there are time when it is valid, I feel you are trying to surpass your own experience but it is good that you do recognise a pattern, but this pattern does not fit in here. Here is one of your example, from right in this thread;

Read between the lines! When someone comes on here and tries to contradict every statement someone makes about something someone experienced they are in effect calling that person a liar.

just in this instance, you are over-analyising which makes it hard to stand back, switch off , pretend you are someone else reading through this thread, try it you might be surprised.

Cheers
Click to expand...

:ty: Grummer. Excellent explanation.
 
Everyone's experience is different, accept it or leave it.

Etoile said:
Ah, I see someone has been pulling the "you're not deaf, you don't understand" card. Classic "poor me, I'm the victim" behavior. NEXT!
Click to expand...
It's not poor me phrase, You don't have a freggin clue what you're talking about. Deaf people will always be considered "low class" by hearings. We surrounded by the ignorance in every walk of life. So the saying is walk a mile in their shoes before you pass judgments.
 
Cheri said:
Everyone's experience is different, accept it or leave it.

It's not poor me phrase, You don't have a freggin clue what you're talking about. Deaf people will always be considered "low class" by hearings. We surrounded by the ignorance in every walk of life. So the saying is walk a mile in their shoes before you pass judgments.
Click to expand...
I think you have missed the point. Your comment about "You don't have a freggin clue what you're talking about" is yet another example of the very self-righteousness you disclaim at the beginning of your post. Poor you, your life is so bad that I can't possibly understand because I am HOH and late-deaf. But like you said, we have to respect each other's experiences. We have to trust each other to do that. Insisting "wah wah, you don't understand" sounds like victim behavior to me. It perpetuates the cycle of deaf people as victims. But you don't have to be a victim, you can stand up for yourself instead of saying "you don't have a clue" and pitying yourself.

I DO respect your experience. I also know about the ignorance and audism present in the hearing world. And I know about the ignorance and audism in the deaf world too. Can you respect MY experience equally? Or is your experience forever "worse" because you want to suffer more than I do?

Don't be a victim, don't complain that others don't understand you. Open your mind to the possibility of the compassion of others. We CAN understand each other.
 
Etoile; For starters It's isn't about being a victim, or wanna be a victim. No deaf person is the same as another deaf, some sign, some speak, and some use both sign and speech, Just as everyone has a different life path. In Justin's case he feels that hearing people would not understand his experience, it doesn't mean he's playing the victim cards. What he is saying is, if you're deaf, you'll understand if you're not, then you don't understand.
 
Etoile said:
I think you have missed the point. Your comment about "You don't have a freggin clue what you're talking about" is yet another example of the very self-righteousness you disclaim at the beginning of your post. Poor you, your life is so bad that I can't possibly understand because I am HOH and late-deaf. But like you said, we have to respect each other's experiences. We have to trust each other to do that. Insisting "wah wah, you don't understand" sounds like victim behavior to me. It perpetuates the cycle of deaf people as victims. But you don't have to be a victim, you can stand up for yourself instead of saying "you don't have a clue" and pitying yourself.

I DO respect your experience. I also know about the ignorance and audism present in the hearing world. And I know about the ignorance and audism in the deaf world too. Can you respect MY experience equally? Or is your experience forever "worse" because you want to suffer more than I do?

Don't be a victim, don't complain that others don't understand you. Open your mind to the possibility of the compassion of others. We CAN understand each other.
Click to expand...

:gpost::gpost::gpost:

I knew I liked you for some reason! You are quite obviously an empowered woman who understands personal responsibility.
 
Cheri said:
Etoile; For starters It's isn't about being a victim, or wanna be a victim. No deaf person is the same as another deaf, some sign, some speak, and some use both sign and speech, Just as everyone has a different life path. In Justin's case he feels that hearing people would not understand his experience, it doesn't mean he's playing the victim cards. What he is saying is, if you're deaf, you'll understand if you're not, then you don't understand.
Click to expand...

And that statement, in and of itself, is evidence of playing the victim card.
 
Etoile said:
I think you have missed the point. Your comment about "You don't have a freggin clue what you're talking about" is yet another example of the very self-righteousness you disclaim at the beginning of your post. Poor you, your life is so bad that I can't possibly understand because I am HOH and late-deaf. But like you said, we have to respect each other's experiences. We have to trust each other to do that. Insisting "wah wah, you don't understand" sounds like victim behavior to me. It perpetuates the cycle of deaf people as victims. But you don't have to be a victim, you can stand up for yourself instead of saying "you don't have a clue" and pitying yourself.

I DO respect your experience. I also know about the ignorance and audism present in the hearing world. And I know about the ignorance and audism in the deaf world too. Can you respect MY experience equally? Or is your experience forever "worse" because you want to suffer more than I do?

Don't be a victim, don't complain that others don't understand you. Open your mind to the possibility of the compassion of others. We CAN understand each other.
Click to expand...


:gpost:
 
jillio said:
And that statement, in and of itself, is evidence of playing the victim card.
Click to expand...
That's how some of you see it, but that's not how I see it. Sorry; we see things differently. :)
 
Cheri said:
:hmm: There are many times I've seen you say that hearing people don't understand your experience, or how they do not understand the deafs needs.
Click to expand...


your point is?

also, it is true that they dont understand but I dont play the deaf card.
 
Cheri said:
That's how some of you see it, but that's not how I see it. Sorry; we see things differently. :)
Click to expand...

Let me ask you this, Cheri. A while back, there was a thread about Al Sharpton being arrested in protest of an unarmed black man being shot by police. You and many others ridiculed him for "playing the race card." You, in particular, believed that Al Sharpton was making it all about the fact that the shooting victim was black, and the officer was not black.

How is it any different when someone says, "It's because I'm deaf and you are hearing? You couldn't possibly understand! You haven't lived my life. You don't know because you aren't deaf. Hearing terps are liars and thieves because they take advantage of deaf people. Hearing people don't know anything about disability services or the ADA. Hearing people suck. Hearing people have no business learning ASL." That, my dear, is playing the deaf card, and to say that it's all right for a deaf individual to engage in this behavior, but a black man, who is the member of a minority group that has experienced every bit as much oppression historically as any deaf person has, is wrong to to so, is one of the most self absorbed and hypocritical attitudes anyone can have.
 
Cheri said:
:hmm: There are many times I've seen you say that hearing people don't understand your experience, or how they do not understand the deafs needs.
Click to expand...

Shel has never said "ALL hearing peole." And she is very appreciative of thos hearing people who seek to understand, seek to address the needs of the deaf from the deaf's perspective, and seek to advocate for educational and social equality. That is the major difference between shel's position and jasin's position.

Shel makes her assessments based on reality, not ridiculous stereotypes that don't apply.
 
shel90 said:
your point is?

also, it is true that they dont understand but I dont play the deaf card.
Click to expand...
I don't think Justin was either.

And Jillio, We all very much appreciative how some hearing people go out their way to understand. Shel isn't the only one.
 
Cheri said:
I don't think Justin was either.

And Jillio, We all very much appreciative how some hearing people go out their way to understand. Shel isn't the only one.
Click to expand...

Who is Justin?
 
jillio said:
Shel has never said "ALL hearing peole." And she is very appreciative of thos hearing people who seek to understand, seek to address the needs of the deaf from the deaf's perspective, and seek to advocate for educational and social equality. That is the major difference between shel's position and jasin's position.

Shel makes her assessments based on reality, not ridiculous stereotypes that don't apply.
Click to expand...

No, I never said all...just those who refuse to understand a deaf person's perspective or ridicule the deaf person's perspectives of what it is like to be deaf.

Those people frustrate me cuz that would mean I would see more deaf children with language delays but that is a whole another topic itself.

:)
 
Cheri said:
I don't think Justin was either.

And Jillio, We all very much appreciative how some hearing people go out their way to understand. Shel isn't the only one.
Click to expand...

No, shel isn't the only one. But you were comparing her to jasin. So, I stuck to the same comparison.

And, no, Cheri, it is not all that are appreciative. The majority of the posts made by justin are very derogatory of the efforts of hearing people.
 
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