Info on STEM CELLS from scientific source

jillio said:
It is a direct violation of the Hippocratic Oath for a physician to prescribe ototoxic drugs with the intent of purposely destroying hearing.
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For real!!! Plus, ototoxicity is not well controlled. One person can take a huge dose of a medication and lose no hearing and another can have a "safe" dose and lose all their hearing.
 
souggy

My long replies to you stand and I have excellent points. If you wish to disagree, point out where you disagree. Otherwise I assume you agree.

Pinky said:
DeafDude, You're the stupid than I thought. :laugh2:
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Not a nice thing to say. If you disagree, please explain instead of throwing insults. :roll:

AlleyCat said:
One passing thought .. if someone's against this because they've been deaf for only so many years and don't want to "adjust", then someone who's been deaf a long time, say 30+ years will see an adjustment or coping to increased hearing differently. There is something to be said for maturity and learning to cope with changes in your life.
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They were against CI for 20 years and only in the last few years have they begun to accept CI. They realise that if they can't or won't adjust to CI, they simply can stop wearing their CI. I am getting stem cells because I believe I can adjust. Worst case scinerio, I can always turn the gain on the HAs down equal to the db improvement stem cells achieves. Id still come ahead in quality! Hearing at 30db aided with an 80db loss is better than hearing at 30db aided with 100db loss! Of course I am gonna try max gains first and see how well my brain adjusts to hearing at 10db!

jillio said:
Re: the bolded. That is not what the article says at all. It says they "have the potential". They do not know at this point whether it will be successful or not, just that the potential is there.
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The stem cell clinics in China are reporting that stem cells, as new as they are, already are enjoying over 75% success for deafness and over 90% success for other conditions. Shel says that CI has a 75% success rate so stem cells today is already giving better odds than CI. Not only that, stem cells never destroys residual hearing while CI almost always does.

jillio said:
It is a direct violation of the Hippocratic Oath for a physician to prescribe ototoxic drugs with the intent of purposely destroying hearing.
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That's why I said people can get stem cells in stages and in fact that's what's being done. Not only that, stem cells today can not cure deafness, but give a 20db average improvement. In 3 years or so when I get stem cells, I expect a 30db improvement. This may be enough to give me excellent hearing with HAs that is at least equal to CI. Id still be severely deaf unaided. I might not even bother spending additional tens of thousands on repeat rounds of stem cells if I am already hearing equal or better than CI the first few rounds of stem cells! I will still get to enjoy blissful silence without HAs because a 30db improvement is still very, very far from being hearing! So I don't see the problem here when I can get to hear equal or better than CI without undergoing surgery.
 
deafdude1 said:
New Stem Cell Therapy May Lead To Treatment For Deafness

They were able to formulate conditions that allowed for the progressive differentiation into neurons and hair cells with the same functional electrophysiological characteristics as cells seen in vivo.

"The results are the first in vitro renewable stem cell system derived from the human auditory organ and have the potential for a variety of applications, such as studying the development of human cochlear neurons and hair cells, as models for drug screening and helping to develop cell-based therapies for deafness," say the authors.

My comments: Stem cells can regenerate both hair and nerve cells! Perhaps they meant that their stem cells can give more of an improvement for nerve than hair cells? The thing is most deaf people have SNHL which means damage to the hair cells. Those with damage to the auditory nerve would not get good results with CI anyway. For them, stem cells is the only choice if they want to hear speech/sounds.

Furthermore, stem cells gives an average of 20db improvement in hearing for most people who have been pioneers for stem cells. Most deaf people have a functioning auditory nerve so the 20db improvement in hearing must be comming from regenerating perhaps a thousand hair cells. Normal hearing is 15,000 hair cells. Stem cell studies on animals have proven that stem cells does regenerate hair cells!
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deafdude hello, it's true what you say that stem cells are capable of differentiating hair cells and auditory neurons, so it is also treatable hearing cells, hair cells and nerve. I have just been informed that in theory if possible, the problem is lack of experience. We need more clinical experience is still so new that they can not promise improvement.
 
That's why I am waiting around 3 years, this is plenty of time for the pioneers to have gone ahead and for us to see results from the dozens of pioneers. The stem cell labs will also build alot of experience for hearing loss/deafness and other conditions. In the next 3-6 months, we should be seeing more "before" and "after" audiograms from the next dozen or so pioneers.

Another thing to consider is that the "after" audiogram was taken about a month after the first stage/round of stem cell treatment. Improvements may continue for 3-6 months after the last stage/round of stem cell treatment has been administered. So we should know of a followup at the 3 and 6 month points post treatment. While they report a 20db average improvement, was that after 1 month? There very well could be another 10 or even 20db improvement after 6 months!

A 30db improvement in my case would give me enough residual hearing to be aided to 0db in the low frequencies, 10db in the mids and 20db in the highs. This is better than CI in every frequency and id have more access to sounds and speech vs. an average CI result of 30db across.

On another note, some fear that stem cells will make you hearing and they don't want to be hearing because they want the ability to enjoy silence while sleeping. Ive tried to explain that stem cells today or anytime soon is not capable of a full restoration. A 30db improvement will put me in the moderate-severe deafness category, ill be less deaf than I am now.

Maybe 15 years from now, stem cell technology will be so advanced that it may be able to get you as good as 20db HL unaided. Of course those who don't want to be hearing can simply get less stages/rounds of treatments. You can keep getting additional stem cell treatments till you are happy with where your hearing is with HAs. There is no need to keep spending tens of thousands on stem cells once you attain enough improvement to get full benefits from HAs unless you wish to be hearing and not want to wear HAs.
 
deafdude1 said:
That's why I am waiting around 3 years, this is plenty of time for the pioneers to have gone ahead and for us to see results from the dozens of pioneers. The stem cell labs will also build alot of experience for hearing loss/deafness and other conditions. In the next 3-6 months, we should be seeing more "before" and "after" audiograms from the next dozen or so pioneers.

Another thing to consider is that the "after" audiogram was taken about a month after the first stage/round of stem cell treatment. Improvements may continue for 3-6 months after the last stage/round of stem cell treatment has been administered. So we should know of a followup at the 3 and 6 month points post treatment. While they report a 20db average improvement, was that after 1 month? There very well could be another 10 or even 20db improvement after 6 months!

A 30db improvement in my case would give me enough residual hearing to be aided to 0db in the low frequencies, 10db in the mids and 20db in the highs. This is better than CI in every frequency and id have more access to sounds and speech vs. an average CI result of 30db across.

On another note, some fear that stem cells will make you hearing and they don't want to be hearing because they want the ability to enjoy silence while sleeping. Ive tried to explain that stem cells today or anytime soon is not capable of a full restoration. A 30db improvement will put me in the moderate-severe deafness category, ill be less deaf than I am now.

Maybe 15 years from now, stem cell technology will be so advanced that it may be able to get you as good as 20db HL unaided. Of course those who don't want to be hearing can simply get less stages/rounds of treatments. You can keep getting additional stem cell treatments till you are happy with where your hearing is with HAs. There is no need to keep spending tens of thousands on stem cells once you attain enough improvement to get full benefits from HAs unless you wish to be hearing and not want to wear HAs.
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ok :gpost::
 
faire_jour said:
For real!!! Plus, ototoxicity is not well controlled. One person can take a huge dose of a medication and lose no hearing and another can have a "safe" dose and lose all their hearing.
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Exactly. Reactions to ototoxicity are very individual, just as efficacy is individual.
 
human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1??

hi,
I read the news on Yahoo Finance on GenVec. Among other programs is that of hearing loss. Going slower than expected, but my doubt as to announce the following message is if humans really are looking to implement atoh1 in the human ear, please share if you find more information. Thanks
 
TherAtoh. TherAtoh is our preclinical program involving the delivery of the human atonal gene to trigger the production of therapeutic proteins by cells in the inner ear. We have a research program focused on the restoration of hearing or balance function through the regeneration of critical cells of the inner ear. Hearing and balance require specialized cells of the inner ear called sensory hair cells. During embryonic development, a gene termed atonal (Atoh1) induces the generation of these cells. In multiple animal models we have demonstrated that the production of the Atoh1 protein results in the formation of new inner ear sensory hair cells and the restoration of hearing and balance function. There are currently no marketed drug therapies in the U.S. to treat hearing loss or balance disorders.
In December 2007, we received a sub-award under a grant from the National Institute on Deafness and Other Communication Disorders (NIDCD), of the NIH, to develop a gene-based drug therapy to treat severe balance disorders. Under this grant, GenVec will receive up to $1.1 million over 5 years to support preclinical research in collaboration with the University of Kansas Medical Center, leading to the development of a drug candidate for clinical testing.
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http://idc.api.edgar-online.com/efx...lingRTF1?SessionID=IenjWEbFLx6_3fS&ID=6480676

This was in last year's end of year financial reporting.
 
2008 abstract - http://www.aro.org/abstracts/FINAL_ABSTRACT_BOOK_2-13-08.pdf

2009 abstract - http://www.aro.org/abstracts/09_Abstract_Book.pdf


The 2010 MidWinter Meeting will be held in Anaheim, CA, at the Disneyland Hotel.

Symposia
Synaptic and Intrinsic Plasticity in the Auditory System: Mechanisms and Functional Significance
New Developments in Understanding Hair-Cell Transduction
Human Otopathology and Basic Science: Partners in Translational Research
Signal Processing in First- and Second-Order Vestibular Neurons
Auditory Stream Segregation and Selection
Modeling Neural Responses and Perceptions of Complex Sounds
Stem Cell Applications for Cochlear Repair – From Proof-of-Principle to Therapy
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http://www.aro.org/news/09_Fall_Final.pdf

ARO Home Page
 
Yep, still it's quite interesting to watch how this is evolving. Already they're talking about "proof of principle to therapy" at this stage of the game.
 
yes, I had reviewed this information.
But for me the phrase "lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1" is novel. It means that the same is applied in humans or are being planned. That is the question I have.
 
neuro said:
yes, I had reviewed this information.
But for me the phrase "lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1" is novel. It means that the same is applied in humans or are being planned. That is the question I have.
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If they're talking about it already seems like they're becoming more confidence about it and that the timeline for this treatment possibility has just shortened.
 
lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1??

neuro said:
"GenVec is currently in lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1" :shock:
Yahoo! Message Boards - GenVec, Inc. (GNVC) - Merriman Curhan Ford Buy Rating: $3.5
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"Scientists have identified the Atonal genes (AtOH1) as a regulator of sensory hair cell formation and regeneration. Auditory cells and cells used for balance have development pathways that are the same genetically and during development a cell chooses to take a path of an auditory cell or a supportive cell. The hypothesis, after identifying AtOH1, is to use this gene to transform a supportive cell into an auditory cell by delivering the atonal gene to these cells. When the gene is delivered, it should lead to a cascade of transcription and activate signals for nerve growth and recruitment.

Animal models have shown positive results after the delivery of the gene. While other genes are potentially being identified as being involved in hearing. GenVec is currently in lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1 :shock:. Currently the program is moving slowly :mad: as the company is focusing on TNFerade for pancreatic cancer, though the receipt of grant funds are allowing the program to move forward".
source: Yahoo! Message Boards - GenVec, Inc. (GNVC) - Merriman Curhan Ford Buy Rating: $3.5
 
My question: is if you are experimenting with humans or is in the pipeline?

kokonut said:
If they're talking about it already seems like they're becoming more confidence about it and that the timeline for this treatment possibility has just shortened.
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hello, I'm trying to understand the meaning of the phrase. I'm Spanish, and therefore have difficulty with English. I read it but sometimes do not understand the meaning of the phrase. My question is if you are experimenting with humans or is in the pipeline. If you are in preclinical stage would not be talking to candidates for human ... See if someone explained the meaning of the phrase: "GenVec is currently in lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1"
thanks!
 
neuro said:
hello, I'm trying to understand the meaning of the phrase. I'm Spanish, and therefore have difficulty with English. I read it but sometimes do not understand the meaning of the phrase. My question is if you are experimenting with humans or is in the pipeline. If you are in preclinical stage would not be talking to candidates for human ... See if someone explained the meaning of the phrase: "GenVec is currently in lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered AtOH1"
thanks!
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What I said mean that if researchers are talking more and more about proof of concept to application means that the possibility of restoring hearing loss must be getting closer. Instead of 20 years down the road perhaps they feel confident it'll happen much sooner than that.

As for "Genvec is currently in lead selection for the human candidate for adenovirally delivered Atoh1," I would suspect that they're getting ready at the human clinical trial level since this involves turning on ear sensory hair cells growth ("a genetic on switch") and allow it to "self-regenerate" new hair cells over damaged or missing ones and nothing about use of stem cells which would require more testing and research. Yet the Atoh1 is the most promising near term solution.

1: Adv Otorhinolaryngol. 2009;66:37-51. Epub 2009 Jun 2. Links
Gene therapy in the inner ear using adenovirus vectors.Husseman J, Raphael Y.
Division of Otolaryngology-Head and Neck Surgery, University of California, San Diego, CA, USA.

Therapies for the protection and regeneration of auditory hair cells are of great interest given the significant monetary and lifestyle impact of hearing loss. The past decade has seen tremendous advances in the use of adenoviral vectors to achieve these aims. Preliminary data demonstrated the functional capacity of this technique as adenoviral-induced expression of neurotrophic and growth factors protected hair cells and spiral ganglion neurons from ototoxic insults. Subsequent efforts confirmed the feasibility of adenoviral transfection of cells in the auditory neuroepithelium via cochleostomy into the scala media. Most recently, efforts have focused on regeneration of depleted hair cells. Mammalian hearing loss is generally considered a permanent insult as the auditory epithelium lacks a basal layer capable of producing new hair cells. Recently, the transcription factor Atoh1 has been found to play a critical role in hair cell differentiation. Adenoviral-mediated overexpression of Atoh1 in culture and in vivo have shown the ability to regenerate auditory and vestibular hair cells by causing transdifferentiation of neighboring epithelial-supporting cells. Functional recovery of both the auditory and vestibular systems has been documented following adenoviral induced Atoh1 overexpression. Copyright (c) 2009 S. Karger AG, Basel.
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By the way, have you seen this one?
http://www.rnid.org.uk/VirtualContent/84925/Full_Nature_ad.pdf
 
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