Indian blood heritage..

[deafdrummer]

I don't understand??? I know that the American Indians are the only true Native Americans but at this point I'm tired of all the African American, Mexican American, etc. crap! If that is the case then I'm a European American or a Heinz 57 American or a Mutt American. We are all Americans if we were born here or immigrated legally and became citizens! I am not degrading the Indians as I would love to be able to prove my heritage. I would like to know more about the DNA testing. Is it accurate and how much does it cost? Where does one get it done?

I'm just saying that that was an explosive statement, and I was hiding under the chair because that it's just not something to say without ascertaining what could go flying across the room. I hate getting into labels, but here goes.

You ARE an American, but not Native American or Indian in the traditional sense of the word. However, let's take this to another level. Was it appreciated by the Indians that the land they lived on was taken from them for their own use? Does the "legal immigration laws" only give license to "immigrants" to be able to "legally steal" the land that was being used by the Indians to start with? Does the United States of America have any moral reason to exist, since it was based on invading and eventually taking over enough land to eventually create a "statist" system based upon the US Constitution, that without the Bill of Rights, would have created a completely unlimited government (hence, the fight between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalist)? Before you answer that, please ask that of the victims of the forced removals that resulted from the Indian Removal Act of 1830. Yes, Congress gave THEMSELVES "legal license" to push aside the Indians so that the "immigrants" could take what wasn't theirs.

It appears that my great-great grandmother whom you saw in the photo was just a baby during the forced march, IF she had been born then. Her mother was 35, and her father was 50 at the time of the march into Indian territory. The 1850 census of the town they were in appears to confirm that she was 12 years old that year, so she was born in 1838, hopefully before the forced march. I can also confirm that her parents were farmer and housewife. Her future husband, a day laborer, shows up in the 1860 census, about two years older than her. He evidently was on the march at two years old. The next census shows her with five children, so the one person in the photo with six people together has one man who is really part of the other family that is Scandinavian, I BELIEVE (jesus, this is complicated!). This last point, I don't know for sure, but the rest of it, yes.

 

[kokonut]

I don't understand??? I know that the American Indians are the only true Native Americans but at this point I'm tired of all the African American, Mexican American, etc. crap! If that is the case then I'm a European American or a Heinz 57 American or a Mutt American. We are all Americans if we were born here or immigrated legally and became citizens! I am not degrading the Indians as I would love to be able to prove my heritage. I would like to know more about the DNA testing. Is it accurate and how much does it cost? Where does one get it done?

Eskimos been around quite awhile, too.

 

[deafdrummer]

I got a reply back - "Unfortunately our laboratory does not offer any type of DNA testing that can tell you if you are native american or what Tribe you belong to. We only offer DNA family relationship testing to current tribal members that need to enroll their family into their tribe."

I wrote back asking if anyone provides a DNA test in the event that all surviving ancestors have passed on. I'll give an update on that. If anyone know who provides this kind of service, let me know.

Edit:

And the answer is, they are not aware of such tests. Damn... The US government did a pretty thorough job, huh? Someday, there WILL be payback. Just because Latin America is largely catholic is not entirely the reason why large families exists.

 

[VacationGuy234]

I got a reply back - "Unfortunately our laboratory does not offer any type of DNA testing that can tell you if you are native american or what Tribe you belong to. We only offer DNA family relationship testing to current tribal members that need to enroll their family into their tribe."

I wrote back asking if anyone provides a DNA test in the event that all surviving ancestors have passed on. I'll give an update on that. If anyone know who provides this kind of service, let me know.

This could be worth a lot of money since the tribes try to cut out people so they don't have to pay out casino money. It happens a lot at the Connecticut casinos. If you could prove ancestry, you could win big money in a court settlement.

 

[CSign]

You have to be able to prove your direct relationship. Even with that, it's up to the tribe whether or not they will accept you as a tribal member. As someone mentioned, some of the larger tribes such as Cherokee have a certain blood quantum you need to meet. For some other smaller tribes such as the Coast Miwok, there is no blood quantum requirement.

But- in my case I discovered the Coast Miwok connection after they closed the tribal rolls. I discovered it about 3 years ago, and I've been stonewalled. They won't really give me any information, and there are no plans of opening up the tribal rolls.

Interestingly enough, they are planning to open a casino. I think that is playing into all of it. My interest in not motivated by money. It is to celebrate what my ancestors had to deny, and learn about the culture that was in a sense taken from me. In all honesty, the whole situation makes me sad. In a way, they are perpetrating further what was done to my ancestors, just in a new generation.

 

[CSign]

This could be worth a lot of money since the tribes try to cut out people so they don't have to pay out casino money. It happens a lot at the Connecticut casinos. If you could prove ancestry, you could win big money in a court settlement.

Perhaps. But if you are truly interested in being a tribal member, and learning more about the culture a law suit isn't going to win you any points. Let's say you win, who in the tribe would really want to associate with you (general you)? I think it is best pursued in other ways. Geneaology research is the place to start.

 

[airportcop]

I'm just saying that that was an explosive statement, and I was hiding under the chair because that it's just not something to say without ascertaining what could go flying across the room. I hate getting into labels, but here goes.

You ARE an American, but not Native American or Indian in the traditional sense of the word. However, let's take this to another level. Was it appreciated by the Indians that the land they lived on was taken from them for their own use? Does the "legal immigration laws" only give license to "immigrants" to be able to "legally steal" the land that was being used by the Indians to start with? Does the United States of America have any moral reason to exist, since it was based on invading and eventually taking over enough land to eventually create a "statist" system based upon the US Constitution, that without the Bill of Rights, would have created a completely unlimited government (hence, the fight between the Federalists and the Anti-Federalist)? Before you answer that, please ask that of the victims of the forced removals that resulted from the Indian Removal Act of 1830. Yes, Congress gave THEMSELVES "legal license" to push aside the Indians so that the "immigrants" could take what wasn't theirs.

It appears that my great-great grandmother whom you saw in the photo was just a baby during the forced march, IF she had been born then. Her mother was 35, and her father was 50 at the time of the march into Indian territory. The 1850 census of the town they were in appears to confirm that she was 12 years old that year, so she was born in 1838, hopefully before the forced march. I can also confirm that her parents were farmer and housewife. Her future husband, a day laborer, shows up in the 1860 census, about two years older than her. He evidently was on the march at two years old. The next census shows her with five children, so the one person in the photo with six people together has one man who is really part of the other family that is Scandinavian, I BELIEVE (jesus, this is complicated!). This last point, I don't know for sure, but the rest of it, yes.

I know what happened to the real/original Native Americans or Indians. It is terrible what our government did. But, it is not much different than that which was done to the black slaves. The Indians in a way were and are compensated. I know that doesn't begin to justify what occurred but we are way past all of that by now or should be anyway. Holding on to the past doesn't help anyone when it comes to unforgiveness or grudges. I was just curious about the DNA testing. I would like to be able to prove my heritage but I don't expect any benefits. Just learning more about my history!

 

[CSign]

^work on your geneaology

 

[Grayma]

You have to be able to prove your direct relationship. Even with that, it's up to the tribe whether or not they will accept you as a tribal member. As someone mentioned, some of the larger tribes such as Cherokee have a certain blood quantum you need to meet. For some other smaller tribes such as the Coast Miwok, there is no blood quantum requirement.
.

I'm not so sure about the Cherokee and a blood requirement. What we were told is that your Cherokee ancestor had to sign the Dawes Commission Roll, which closed in the early 1900s.
That's the roll my husband's great-great-grandfather refused to sign because he 'just wanted to be American,' according to my husband's great-grandmother.

 

[deafdrummer]

I know what happened to the real/original Native Americans or Indians. It is terrible what our government did. But, it is not much different than that which was done to the black slaves. The Indians in a way were and are compensated.

How were the Indians compensated? There is only a 100-square mi reservation out east and scattered communities through the country.

 

[deafdrummer]

I know what happened to the real/original Native Americans or Indians. It is terrible what our government did. But, it is not much different than that which was done to the black slaves. The Indians in a way were and are compensated. I know that doesn't begin to justify what occurred but we are way past all of that by now or should be anyway. Holding on to the past doesn't help anyone when it comes to unforgiveness or grudges. I was just curious about the DNA testing. I would like to be able to prove my heritage but I don't expect any benefits. Just learning more about my history!

Unfortunately, the DNA testing is not accepted, especially for the East Cherokee tribe. You still have to prove records on the Baker Roll, etc.

 

[deafdrummer]

I'm not so sure about the Cherokee and a blood requirement. What we were told is that your Cherokee ancestor had to sign the Dawes Commission Roll, which closed in the early 1900s.
That's the roll my husband's great-great-grandfather refused to sign because he 'just wanted to be American,' according to my husband's great-grandmother.

So... Since your husband can't get in there, the least he can do is is try this:

Home, General Information

It is an officially recognized satellite community for Cherokees, registered and unregistered, etc. At the least, you get full participation except for voting and holding office. If you click on the links in the big red graphic, that will take you back to the Cherokee Nation main web site. Go down on the right side under there where you'll see IN THIS SECTION, where you see four links. This pertains to this community only. Anyway, they are recognized as a community by the Cherokee Nation. For proof: :Organizations:Communities:NewMexico

The nice thing about this community is that they want to maintain a majority of registered Cherokees, which for them is 60%. Initially, you'll join as a subscriber (what that entails, I'll have to look into it), where you can do everything except vote and hold office. As the community grows, your name on the subscriber list eventually gets you in as a member. They have to maintain that 60% ratio. Now, once you become a member, I don't know if you'll get to vote or hold office if you are not registered. But you WILL be a part of the community. I need to research the particulars of this group to see if this is something I want to do. I have been looking for something for a long time.

 

[Grayma]

So... Since your husband can't get in there, the least he can do is is try this:

Home, General Information

It is an officially recognized satellite community for Cherokees, registered and unregistered, etc. At the least, you get full participation except for voting and holding office. If you click on the links in the big red graphic, that will take you back to the Cherokee Nation main web site. Go down on the right side under there where you'll see IN THIS SECTION, where you see four links. This pertains to this community only. Anyway, they are recognized as a community by the Cherokee Nation. For proof: :Organizations:Communities:NewMexico

The nice thing about this community is that they want to maintain a majority of registered Cherokees, which for them is 60%. Initially, you'll join as a subscriber (what that entails, I'll have to look into it), where you can do everything except vote and hold office. As the community grows, and your name on the subscriber list eventually gets you in as a member. They have to maintain that 60% ratio. Now, once you become a member, I don't know if you'll get to vote or hold office if you are not registered. But you WILL be a part of the community. I need to research the particulars of this group to see if this is something I want to do. I have been looking for something for a long time.

That is really cool! Thank-you!

He doesn't really want to have voting rights or other privileges, because since nobody has lived as an Indian in his family since his great-great grandparents, he doesn't feel that would be right.

He's mainly interested (and some of the kids are) in heritage stuff- who were his ancestors, what were their names, where did they live, how did they live, that kind of thing. So this might be perfect for our interests.

 

[Steinhauer]

This is an article about the Navajo Code Talkers from WWII and the Warriors Medal of Valor:

One of the last of the Navajo Code Talkers receives medal - The Prescott Daily Courier - Prescott, Arizona


The man giving Oliver his Warriors Medal of Valor is my Uncle Larry. My Uncle is part Native American, and a "friend" of the Navajo Nation. He participates in the National Congress of American Indians and was selected to award recipients with the Warriors Medal of Valor. He was a combat engineer and served two tours of Duty in Vietnam. He is also a Biomedical Engineer as well as a current Arizona Ranger.



[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ6tehqR2mM]Prescott Pow Wow Warrior Medal of Valor Ceremony 2010 - YouTube[/ame]


The above video is not captioned but it is a Pow Wow in Arizona during a Warriors Medal of Valor ceremony.

Look to your elders for guidance, wisdom, strength and courage.

 

[airportcop]

How were the Indians compensated? There is only a 100-square mi reservation out east and scattered communities through the country.

There are many Indian reservations all over this country. Some Native American tribes may also get payments from mineral rights and other monies from long term agreements or government treaties. They also get IHS or health benefits. Depending on the tribe or status there may be other benefits such as housing.

My father used to work for the Bureau of Indian Affairs when we lived in New Mexico.

 

[CSign]

I'm not so sure about the Cherokee and a blood requirement. What we were told is that your Cherokee ancestor had to sign the Dawes Commission Roll, which closed in the early 1900s.
That's the roll my husband's great-great-grandfather refused to sign because he 'just wanted to be American,' according to my husband's great-grandmother.

It looks like Cherokee Nation requires only that you prove you are descended from someone on the Dawes Roll. The other two have other requirements such as being on the Baker roll, as well as having a certain blood quantum.

All Things Cherokee: Article - Joining the Nation - What is Required?

Grayma, do you guys think it could have had anything to do with the discrimination he was likely facing? I understand about wanting to be, "American", but I wonder if perhaps he had other motivations besides that...

 

[CSign]

That is really cool! Thank-you!

He doesn't really want to have voting rights or other privileges, because since nobody has lived as an Indian in his family since his great-great grandparents, he doesn't feel that would be right.

He's mainly interested (and some of the kids are) in heritage stuff- who were his ancestors, what were their names, where did they live, how did they live, that kind of thing. So this might be perfect for our interests.

I don't know if it's the same with other tribes, but the Coast Miwok never say or write the name of their dead. They would pass on the name they were given (or chose, not sure) when they became neophytes, but not their native name.

I'm with your husband, in terms of my motivation to get involved. I want to learn more...

 

[deafdrummer]

Grayma, do you guys think it could have had anything to do with the discrimination he was likely facing? I understand about wanting to be, "American", but I wonder if perhaps he had other motivations besides that...

@ Airportcop - I'm talking CHEROKEE. There is only the eastern band's reservation out east. It doesn't look like the United Keetoowah Band has a reservation, and the Cherokee Nation is just some land with a building(s) on it. No place for today's Cherokees to live on. Basically, they were given land allotments, and I don't know what happened when the holder of that land died.

Now, CSign, let's look a bit closer at the nature of these rolls. These rolls were most likely set up with the scaring the Indians with the possible implications of a need for a roll (as in collect the names so they can be executed, thrown in jail, whatever). So, it scared away a lot of the Indians AND scattered the remaining tribes and their powers. It was a way to greatly accelerate the process of tribal dissolution (as was the attempt of the Bakers roll). Read this, people:

Search the 1924 Baker Roll

"The final roll of the Eastern Cherokee, prepared by United States Agent Fred A. Baker, pursuant to an act of the 68th Congress, (43 stat., 376), June 4, 1924. Before preparation of this roll, the Act required that all land, money, and other property of the Tribe be transferred to the United States for final disposition. Termination of the Tribe as a government and political entity was the ultimate goal. After termination efforts failed, the Tribe continued to use the 1924 Baker Roll as its base roll."

What pisses me off is that the gov't destroyed that part of the family. They say we don't exist...

And CSign, I hope that community works out... I don't know what I'm going to do here, but I'm breaking down... I don't know what's going to happen the rest of this year...

 

[Bebonang]

It looks like Cherokee Nation requires only that you prove you are descended from someone on the Dawes Roll. The other two have other requirements such as being on the Baker roll, as well as having a certain blood quantum.

All Things Cherokee: Article - Joining the Nation - What is Required?

Grayma, do you guys think it could have had anything to do with the discrimination he was likely facing? I understand about wanting to be, "American", but I wonder if perhaps he had other motivations besides that...

On the bold statement, there had been very heavy discrimination against Natives (remember that the name or the word "Indian" is from India in another continent across the Atlantic Ocean) who had been suffered under the hands of the military soldiers and President Abraham Lincoln (government). It was a terrible ordeal having to walk to Oklahoma and put in the reservation against our wills. They took the lands away from us. Not only that, they made us changed our ways, traditions and native languages (some of the Natives went underground to have ceremonies and speaking our languages).

My great grandmother (I am 66 years old now) was involved in the Trails of Tears but she escaped into the mountains. She had suffered so much and my grandmother cried about having to keep secrets from the whites for many years like her mother. Hiding her identity is only way to survive this terrible discrimination against her. No wonder she does not have any Dawes rolls in her own home village. She was not the only one but there were lots of us being discriminated from the whites for many years since they came over here from Europe and Spain. Today we are still being discriminate.

It is up to the person who want to label themselves as "American" instead of "Natives or Indians". They are worried that they will not be able to get jobs or any kind of benefits for them to be like everyone. Blacks still have problems with discrimination too. There seem to be no equality among us Natives and Blacks. I was sooo thrilled about having President Obama to be the first black president of the United States of America. I hope someday our first Native would become the president of the United States instead of being "Chief". Here in my reserve (First Nation), we have Chief and Counsel to discuss with our people.

 

[deafdrummer]

BOOM...

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gTrbVf6SrCc&feature=related]American Holocaust of Native American Indians (FULL Documentary) - YouTube[/ame]

I'm sorry that the Youfuck captioning is still being used, but the text under the video explains the gist of it. Send this to every damned body you know.

I noticed that my ancestors wrote "w" for white on the census forms, or maybe the census taker was sympathetic to the cause and "helped" them out. It was obvious as hell that my great-grandmother was Indian. See that on the form below? How's that for eradication!?