IEP help

jillio said:
Sending it to others is not a big deal. That is why several members of this forum have been sent copies.:doh:
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I am sure that the info would be helpful--we all want to know how to help deaf children. However, I THINK the question was something along the lines of deaf kids fitting in with mainstream hearing kids, right? I can think of several situations where a deaf child was in the mainstream--some situations worked better than others. A child who cannot speak well is surely going to have a harder time in the mainstream than one who does speak well, right? Of course, there are always exceptions to that: a child who uses ASL only somehow could luck up and be placed in a mainstream school where a majority of the students think ASL is cool and they accept the deaf child and learn the language. It happens, but it is rare. And a deaf child who has perfect speech could still struggle in the mainstream because they still feel "different" and have trouble "fitting in" even though they speak as well as the hearing kids. I bet that is quite common--my daughter kind of fits in that category. There are always exceptions--I have heard of kids with CIs who become the most popular kids at a mainstream school--however, I am sure that is rare. So what helps deaf kids "fit in"? I would imagine that a load of self-confidence and a very outgoing personality are key factors. And, in MOST cases, but not all--I would imagine that having good speech would be a key factor in the situation of a deaf child being the only deaf child in a mainstream school and still finding a way to "fit in." It would be a rare child indeed who "fit in" a mainstream school if they do not speak at all--but it does happen in some cases. I THINK that is what the question was about--and if the response was somewhere along the lines that: great speech is NOT a guarantee of "fitting in"--that is also the case. While good speech can definitely help a child fit in better than a child with no speech, it does not guarantee that they will completely fit in and feel comfortable in the mainstream. I think that is the idea behind the question and response. If studies can show the professionals how very important social issues are when deciding placement, then we need those studies to be publicized--not enough professionals seem aware of these issues. Yes, there IS so much more to it than "speaking well"--but a child who cannot speak at all will probably have and even harder time fitting in, wouldn't they? This makes me just want to hug every deaf child and let them know that THEY are wonderful just as they are--and I wish that each and every child could go to school in a place where they felt accepted and loved just as they are! :)
 
Deborah said:
I am sure that the info would be helpful--we all want to know how to help deaf children. However, I THINK the question was something along the lines of deaf kids fitting in with mainstream hearing kids, right? I can think of several situations where a deaf child was in the mainstream--some situations worked better than others. A child who cannot speak well is surely going to have a harder time in the mainstream than one who does speak well, right? Of course, there are always exceptions to that: a child who uses ASL only somehow could luck up and be placed in a mainstream school where a majority of the students think ASL is cool and they accept the deaf child and learn the language. It happens, but it is rare. And a deaf child who has perfect speech could still struggle in the mainstream because they still feel "different" and have trouble "fitting in" even though they speak as well as the hearing kids. I bet that is quite common--my daughter kind of fits in that category. There are always exceptions--I have heard of kids with CIs who become the most popular kids at a mainstream school--however, I am sure that is rare. So what helps deaf kids "fit in"? I would imagine that a load of self-confidence and a very outgoing personality are key factors. And, in MOST cases, but not all--I would imagine that having good speech would be a key factor in the situation of a deaf child being the only deaf child in a mainstream school and still finding a way to "fit in." It would be a rare child indeed who "fit in" a mainstream school if they do not speak at all--but it does happen in some cases. I THINK that is what the question was about--and if the response was somewhere along the lines that: great speech is NOT a guarantee of "fitting in"--that is also the case. While good speech can definitely help a child fit in better than a child with no speech, it does not guarantee that they will completely fit in and feel comfortable in the mainstream. I think that is the idea behind the question and response. If studies can show the professionals how very important social issues are when deciding placement, then we need those studies to be publicized--not enough professionals seem aware of these issues. Yes, there IS so much more to it than "speaking well"--but a child who cannot speak at all will probably have and even harder time fitting in, wouldn't they? This makes me just want to hug every deaf child and let them know that THEY are wonderful just as they are--and I wish that each and every child could go to school in a place where they felt accepted and loved just as they are! :)
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I was raised orally and mainstreamed as the only deaf kid in elementary until high school when my best friend, who was another oral deaf was able to finally attend my high school. During the early years, there was no problem until around 5th grade. That was when the problems started. On the surface, I was considered popular cuz I was friends with the "popular" kids BUT I never got invited to their social events and so on after 5th grade. By high school, I was no longer friends with them but more like acquantances. It really hurted that my childhood friends shunned me like that simply because I couldnt keep up with the conversations or social chatter despite my good speech.

My best friend made it on the cheerleading squad throughout our high school years and over 100 girls competed for 12 spots. She made it but after 3 years of being on the same squad with her girls, they betrayed her by keeping her in the dark about their senior year dance show. She asked them about doing a farewell dance and they told her that they would rather do it individually when in truth, they actually formed their own show behind her back. Come the big end of the year dance show, my friend discovered that they went behind her back and did a show together to honor their 3 years together on the squad. How shitty is that? She confronted them and asked them WHY? U know what they said? They said they were sick of repeating themselves for her after 3 years and got fed up with her deafness. It has been almost 20 years and she still hasnt gotten over it. It was the ultimate betrayal beyond anyone's imagination and for a 17 year old girl, it really tore her up deeply.

Yes, we both had great oral skills but we were basically ignored throughout in high school. We had to initiate most of the conversations and usually we would get a smile or a nod or a "whatever". The "neverminds" were the worst.

If we had a balance of both...hearing and deaf...ASL and spoken English, I think we would have been more confident in ourselves and been ok with all that's happened. Yea, nothing we can do about it which is why I am passionate about ensuring that every deaf child has the opportunity to learn ASL and exposure to other deaf children.
 
shel90 said:
I was raised orally and mainstreamed as the only deaf kid in elementary until high school when my best friend, who was another oral deaf was able to finally attend my high school. During the early years, there was no problem until around 5th grade. That was when the problems started. On the surface, I was considered popular cuz I was friends with the "popular" kids BUT I never got invited to their social events and so on after 5th grade. By high school, I was no longer friends with them but more like acquantances. It really hurted that my childhood friends shunned me like that simply because I couldnt keep up with the conversations or social chatter despite my good speech.

My best friend made it on the cheerleading squad throughout our high school years and over 100 girls competed for 12 spots. She made it but after 3 years of being on the same squad with her girls, they betrayed her by keeping her in the dark about their senior year dance show. She asked them about doing a farewell dance and they told her that they would rather do it individually when in truth, they actually formed their own show behind her back. Come the big end of the year dance show, my friend discovered that they went behind her back and did a show together to honor their 3 years together on the squad. How shitty is that? She confronted them and asked them WHY? U know what they said? They said they were sick of repeating themselves for her after 3 years and got fed up with her deafness. It has been almost 20 years and she still hasnt gotten over it. It was the ultimate betrayal beyond anyone's imagination and for a 17 year old girl, it really tore her up deeply.

Yes, we both had great oral skills but we were basically ignored throughout in high school. We had to initiate most of the conversations and usually we would get a smile or a nod or a "whatever". The "neverminds" were the worst.

If we had a balance of both...hearing and deaf...ASL and spoken English, I think we would have been more confident in ourselves and been ok with all that's happened. Yea, nothing we can do about it which is why I am passionate about ensuring that every deaf child has the opportunity to learn ASL and exposure to other deaf children.
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OUCH again! I am definitely hearing more bad than good when it comes to mainstreaming--especially in high school. While some have suffered cruel teasing and pranks, it seems that most have been in that awful category of being ignored and left out. If we were to guess percentages, I would say that less than 10 percent of deaf teens are happy in the mainstream--maybe more would be considered "successful" if based on academics, but I am talking about truly happy and fitting in socially. I have heard of a few big high schools with a large deaf/hh group(50 to 100!)--that almost seems like a deaf school within a big high school. But, for most, I think they are either alone or maybe have one or two other deaf students in school with them--and they may or may not bond together based on deafness. It is unreasonable to put a handful of deaf students together and expect them to make friends based on their deafness--they need to have choices from a larger group. Right now, my daughter goes to school with one hh girl who has pretty much rejected her, and two deaf/hh boys who are pretty good friends with each other--that is it! I keep thinking--if she were in school with dozens of deaf girls in her grade level, surely she can make a few friends--the odds just increase, right? If they have more choices among deaf friends, they should have a better chance of making good friends among the larger group of deaf students. I would imagine that deaf teens have much happier high school experiences if they have lots of deaf friends--not perfect, but better than being alone and "the only one." I am convinced that mainstreaming in high school doesn't work for MOST deaf teens--the rare small group that is strong enough to overcome feeling different is the exception. My daughter is probably feeling like MOST deaf teens--they just want to bond together and not feel left out--that is hard to do in a big high school(unless there is a large deaf/hh group there). I don't want to put TOO much emphasis on high school--there IS more to life than those four years--BUT, when you are that age, you think life is confined to those four years, don't you? Soon, we will be talking about the college years--and I would LOVE to see my daughter go to college with a friend or two from the deaf high school(maybe Gallaudet, CSUN, or another school with a good deaf/hh program). And then, maybe she can find a good social group in the deaf community wherever she goes next. But I want her to finally begin this active deaf social life in her high school years--I think it will help her build self-confidence for years to come! I hope more deaf teens are able to have that atmosphere during those important years--it really does matter!
 
Deborah said:
OUCH again! I am definitely hearing more bad than good when it comes to mainstreaming--especially in high school. While some have suffered cruel teasing and pranks, it seems that most have been in that awful category of being ignored and left out. If we were to guess percentages, I would say that less than 10 percent of deaf teens are happy in the mainstream--maybe more would be considered "successful" if based on academics, but I am talking about truly happy and fitting in socially. I have heard of a few big high schools with a large deaf/hh group(50 to 100!)--that almost seems like a deaf school within a big high school. But, for most, I think they are either alone or maybe have one or two other deaf students in school with them--and they may or may not bond together based on deafness. It is unreasonable to put a handful of deaf students together and expect them to make friends based on their deafness--they need to have choices from a larger group. Right now, my daughter goes to school with one hh girl who has pretty much rejected her, and two deaf/hh boys who are pretty good friends with each other--that is it! I keep thinking--if she were in school with dozens of deaf girls in her grade level, surely she can make a few friends--the odds just increase, right? If they have more choices among deaf friends, they should have a better chance of making good friends among the larger group of deaf students. I would imagine that deaf teens have much happier high school experiences if they have lots of deaf friends--not perfect, but better than being alone and "the only one." I am convinced that mainstreaming in high school doesn't work for MOST deaf teens--the rare small group that is strong enough to overcome feeling different is the exception. My daughter is probably feeling like MOST deaf teens--they just want to bond together and not feel left out--that is hard to do in a big high school(unless there is a large deaf/hh group there). I don't want to put TOO much emphasis on high school--there IS more to life than those four years--BUT, when you are that age, you think life is confined to those four years, don't you? Soon, we will be talking about the college years--and I would LOVE to see my daughter go to college with a friend or two from the deaf high school(maybe Gallaudet, CSUN, or another school with a good deaf/hh program). And then, maybe she can find a good social group in the deaf community wherever she goes next. But I want her to finally begin this active deaf social life in her high school years--I think it will help her build self-confidence for years to come! I hope more deaf teens are able to have that atmosphere during those important years--it really does matter!
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I was on the honor roll in high school despite not having terps nor notetakers but sometimes I wonder if I could have achieved more and been placed in the AP classes if I didnt miss out on so much. I also ditched classes often cuz I was so bored in them due to not understanding what was being said 90% of the time. I would memorize all the 50 presidents on the wall while my teachers and classmates engaged in discussions or just count the holes in the ceiling walls. I know I missed out on learning an important skill...develop dialogue in group discussions. Also, I have mentioned it in other threads...I had been yelled at for daydreaming too much or for not paying attention too often by my teachers. I didnt understand what the problem was so I thought I was to blame for all that and tried harder to pay attention, but no matter how hard I tried to be "hearing", I never could achieve it. I just wish someone had told me or taught me that I am not hearing and that it was ok but instead, I was felt or made very aware of my shortcomings on a consistent basis and it took a toll on my self-esteem. That's why, if I have a deaf child, I would never ever mainstream them full time or make them oral-only. Maybe part time or maybe with a strong deaf/hh program in a school like u mentioned but mainstreamed full time?..no thanks.
 
shel90 said:
.... I would memorize all the 50 presidents on the wall while my teachers and classmates engaged in discussions or just count the holes in the ceiling walls...
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I can't count the number of times I did that too while in school. Still do nowadays, if I'm bored! :)

shel90 said:
...I would never ever mainstream them full time or make them oral-only. Maybe part time or maybe with a strong deaf/hh program in a school like u mentioned but mainstreamed full time?..no thanks.
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I was in a fully mainstreamed program. If you were not going to use that type of program, then what would you use? Just curious ...
 
AlleyCat said:
I can't count the number of times I did that too while in school. Still do nowadays, if I'm bored! :)



I was in a fully mainstreamed program. If you were not going to use that type of program, then what would you use? Just curious ...
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For who? A profoundly deaf child with good speech and no hearing or a deaf child with a CI with great hearing and speech?
 
faire_jour said:
For who? A profoundly deaf child with good speech and no hearing or a deaf child with a CI with great hearing and speech?
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a deaf person will never have a great hearing unless the hearing damage is very minimal.
 
faire_jour said:
For who? A profoundly deaf child with good speech and no hearing or a deaf child with a CI with great hearing and speech?
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That is what I was asking Shel .. I'd be interested to know too. In my case I was a profoundly deaf child with good speech and no hearing (maybe a little with hearing aids). I can't speak for those with a CI.
 
AlleyCat said:
I can't count the number of times I did that too while in school. Still do nowadays, if I'm bored! :)



I was in a fully mainstreamed program. If you were not going to use that type of program, then what would you use? Just curious ...
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Deaf School or a BiBi program and then if my child gets older, if he or she wants to experience being mainstreamed, then I would let them experience it.
 
faire_jour said:
For who? A profoundly deaf child with good speech and no hearing or a deaf child with a CI with great hearing and speech?
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Many children with CIs have been referred to our program after not doing so well being mainstreamed so having great hearing doesnt guarantee that one will make it or not.
 
Jiro said:
a deaf person will never have a great hearing unless the hearing damage is very minimal.
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Not true. My daughter hears at 15 db, that is considered "normal hearing".

NOT that I think that means that she would be successful in the mainstream or without ASL!!!
 
faire_jour said:
Not true. My daughter hears at 15 db, that is considered "normal hearing".

NOT that I think that means that she would be successful in the mainstream or without ASL!!!
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From my understanding, it is more crude than "normal hearing" so not as nuanced?
 
faire_jour said:
Not true. My daughter hears at 15 db, that is considered "normal hearing".

NOT that I think that means that she would be successful in the mainstream or without ASL!!!
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no...... I'm talking about being able to communicate via two-way effectively and seemly LIKE hearing people in any environment.

Hearing something is different from deciphering the sound.
 
Jiro said:
no...... I'm talking about being able to communicate via two-way effectively and seemly LIKE hearing people in any environment.

Hearing something is different from deciphering the sound.
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True, true.
 
faire_jour said:
Not true. My daughter hears at 15 db, that is considered "normal hearing".

NOT that I think that means that she would be successful in the mainstream or without ASL!!!
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um.. not quite, Fair_jour. I hear at 20 dbs with my implant. However, what I hear isn't always the same as normal hearing. Plus, it takes time to relearn sounds and to learn new sounds with implants. For example, I had to relearn the sounds of motors because I couldn't hear the higher pitched sounds coming from motors with my hearing aid. I like to play my warlock on World of Warcraft and in PvP (Player vs Player which involes killing other players), I died a lot to rogues because I failed to recognize the whoosh sound of rogues and it took me six months to learn it. All that is going to take time. On the plus side, since Miss Kat got implanted as a child, she's likely to do better than me if the CI is successful when it comes to sounds.
 
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