Hypocrisy?

[KarissaMann05]

:glared narrowed:

I seriously hope you dont mock deafies...

Well, let me ask you, are you ashamed yourself because of your deafness?

I jsut hate how hearing people look down on deafies as phoney and pitiful yet our needs are sometimes ignored by anti deafies. Besides, they also looked down on 'low' deafies.

That's why I refused to accpet to be disabled person until they DON'T look down on us...

I could less care if anti deafies mock pro deafies as if they are *oh-what-a-morron* deafies. I let them whatever they want as if YOU please for.

 

[Cheri]

I'm sorry to be blunt but yes you're hyprocrite for denying you have disablity and receive service.

In my opinion she is not being hypocrite and I refused to answer any more of your questions either.

 

[Hwy99]

Well welcome to real world, not only deaf people struggle to get an job. Everyone even hearing people have hard time getting job and so many of hearing people have absolutely no benefit from their job such as decent health insurance coverage, support, and service I must said deaf people are spoiled compared to hearing people they work their butt off to get an job, education, housing and transportation.
All I think for deaf people who claimed they're not disabled should grow some balls and face the real world hardship to prove they can do anything like hearing people otherwise they're hypocrite. Now nobody want to be hypocrite don't they?

Ask any hearing people if they have easy life, easy time find house, car, health insurance, dental plan, etc I guarantee they will say no. But how they got all those? They hard work for it. Now people who sat they ARE disabled and receive benefits that's fine because it is for disabled people.

Yeah you are right, not only deafies have hard time to find job, but let me give you a picture, a hearing manager have two hiring applications, one was from a deaf person and other one was from hearing person, they both have all the same pros and cons, except that one of them are deaf, that manager would choose hearing one over deaf one because the manager want the quality of communicate. They want the money and they don't care about other people's life, I know not all of them, but alot of managers do that.

Now, that's the real world. I have been living in the real world for 3 years, and have been working for 4 different companies since I was 15 and I already know what it's like to search for job without communicate, they are very hard to find and hard to support alone with because low paychecks. Alot of people don't want to help, they want the money and their own ecomonic boom with the best quality service. Now you wondering why many of them don't care about you, except your works and their business.

Now don't call us as spoiled because the hearies are very lucky to have perfect communication compare to us and it take awhile for us to learn to communicate with the hearings, through the HA, through the CI with surgery, etc, and not all of them would ever can talk like hearies, that makes it far more harder for them to find a job that support themselves.

Plus, I live with the hearies right now, they always got job for not much more than 3 months while it takes me more time to find a job without the communication.

Also not ALL hearies can't get the support from governments. Alot of hearies get the FSFSA for college, some of hearing single parents do get food stamps and some support money, also there are some low-income hearies people get food stamps too (as speaking of my hearing cousins), so don't assume that hearies cannot get the support from the government at all, they really do get some support from government too.

 

[SkullChick]

Naw, don't be sorry My feelings weren't hurt... I didn't take it personally. Like you said, you had a one million dollars question to the WHY d/Deaf people do this or that. Good question. You do make good points though.

I don't mean to be denying that I have an disablity... I do as I can't hear... but I can't do nothing by it, actually. I don't like go out and proest about the correciton of terms. If a person rather to use hearing-impaired, disabled, deaf, and/or hard of hearing, so be it. Thanks.

Oh alright glad ur not offended, and took it well

 

[jillio]

Not able to hear is something deaf person has. Noun, check.
Don't have ability to hear is someone that's deaf. Adjective, check.

Person with disability= person with hearing impairment.

Disabled person= Deaf person.

Do I need say more?

Contextually, the meaning is changed through implication when one uses a noun and one uses an adjective.

 

[sleepytaz]

Oh alright glad ur not offended, and took it well

Thanks... I'm going to enjoy reading this thread though!

 

[SkullChick]

Yeah you are right, not only deafies have hard time to find job, but let me give you a picture, a hearing manager have two hiring applications, one was from a deaf person and other one was from hearing person, they both have all the same pros and cons, except that one of them are deaf, that manager would choose hearing one over deaf one because the manager want the quality of communicate. They want the money and they don't care about other people's life, I know not all of them, but alot of managers do that.

Now, that's the real world. I have been living in the real world for 3 years, and have been working for 4 different companies since I was 15 and I already know what it's like to search for job without communicate, they are very hard to find and hard to support alone with because low paychecks. Alot of people don't want to help, they want the money and their own ecomonic boom with the best quality service. Now you wondering why many of them don't care about you, except your works and their business.

Now don't call us as spoiled because the hearies are very lucky to have perfect communication compare to us and it take awhile for us to learn to communicate with the hearings, through the HA, through the CI with surgery, etc, and not all of them would ever can talk like hearies, that makes it far more harder for them to find a job that support themselves.

Plus, I live with the hearies right now, they always got job for not much more than 3 months while it takes me more time to find a job without the communication.

Also not ALL hearies can't get the support from governments. Alot of hearies get the FSFSA for college, some of hearing single parents do get food stamps and some support money, also there are some low-income hearies people get food stamps too (as speaking of my hearing cousins), so don't assume that hearies cannot get the support from the government at all, they really do get some support from government too.

Of course that's business they pick who have best qualities for the job position. But if deafness is purely the only reason you didn't get hired and the company have 15 or more employee that's against the law. Except for the obvious reason you can't get job such as telemarketer, or spend major of time communicating through phone, customers, on radio, CB radio and so on.
People will do same with different race, sexual preference, religion and all stuff this world sucks but all we can do is fight to succeed

 

[Oceanbreeze]

There is no "us" versus "them" view, Deaf people should be allow to labeled themselves the way they see fit, There are differences between hearing and deaf communities and cultures. Just because we can't hear doesn't make us disability.

Just because some deaf people received government checks, is because maybe they were being discriminated on getting hire on a job, no matter how qualified they may be.
I have a friend that came and visited me, and spoken in a different language, and I had to translating the spoken language into English does that mean this person is disability because she speak a different language? Just because deaf people have their interpreters, everyone has the right to know what is being said, it doesn't mean that person is disability.

To be honest hearing people don't know anything about deafness as much they would like to think they do, to know how it is to be deaf, is to be deaf, and you'll understand.

It's rather naive to think that a "us vs them" mentality doesn't exist, because it does exist. Ask any deafie or any hearie if they feel differently about the other group, and a good many will say "yes". I have even seen deafies become very stubborn in their ways and refuse to meet a hearie half way. It happens. It's wrong, but it happens.

The reasons for getting SSI/SSDI are valid, but that's not what Skullchick is saying. She is saying that it's hypocritical to receive SSI/SSDI if one is "not disabled". In other words, how can you claim you're not disabled if you recieve SSI/SSDI? And, I must say, I think she has a point!

To your last point, I agree. Many hearies don't know what it's like to be deaf; myself included. But, I can claim the same thing. Many people don't know what it's like to sit in a wheelchair, either. But, that's also an excuse. You can go through life claiming hearies don't know what it's like, OR, you can get out in the world, kick some butt, and prove to the world what your abilities are!

It's up to each person to meet the other half way. You're not going to change someone's mind about you if you're bitter about your circumstance or you make excuses for that circumstance.

 

[sleepytaz]

I don't see sleepytaz as being hypocrtical at all. He/she has said that he/she has a disability that requires accommodation, but that does not make one disabled.

Thanks and I'm a she, FYI

 

[SkullChick]

It's rather naive to think that a "us vs them" mentality doesn't exist, because it does exist. Ask any deafie or any hearie if they feel differently about the other group, and a good many will say "yes". I have even seen deafies become very stubborn in their ways and refuse to meet a hearie half way. It happens. It's wrong, but it happens.

The reasons for getting SSI/SSDI are valid, but that's not what Skullchick is saying. She is saying that it's hypocritical to receive SSI/SSDI if one is "not disabled". In other words, how can you claim you're not disabled if you recieve SSI/SSDI? And, I must say, I think she has a point!

To your last point, I agree. Many hearies don't know what it's like to be deaf; myself included. But, I can claim the same thing. Many people don't know what it's like to sit in a wheelchair, either. But, that's also an excuse. You can go through life claiming hearies don't know what it's like, OR, you can get out in the world, kick some butt, and prove to the world what your abilities are!

It's up to each person to meet the other half way. You're not going to change someone's mind about you if you're bitter about your circumstance or you make excuses for that circumstance.

 

[KarissaMann05]

There is no "us" versus "them" view, Deaf people should be allow to labeled themselves the way they see fit, There are differences between hearing and deaf communities and cultures. Just because we can't hear doesn't make us disability.

Just because some deaf people received government checks, is because maybe they were being discriminated on getting hire on a job, no matter how qualified they may be.

I have a friend that came and visited me, and spoken in a different language, and I had to translating the spoken language into English does that mean this person is disability because she speak a different language? Just because deaf people have their interpreters, everyone has the right to know what is being said, it doesn't mean that person is disability.

To be honest hearing people don't know anything about deafness as much they would like to think they do, to know how it is to be deaf, is to be deaf, and you'll understand.

I heartily agreed with you.

It makes me sad to see some anti deaf deafies feel so ashamed serectly when they accpet "disability" as phoney and pitiful people. =/ I also hate when anti deafies tried to make me to feel so ashamed because of my deafness. AGRRR

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?

 

[Bottesini]

Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?

Makes perfect sense to me this is how I live also.

 

[KarissaMann05]

Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?

Good question.
I think you are still normal person.
Just don't listen to them if you feel insult when they made a negative thing for.

 

[Oceanbreeze]

Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?

Yes it does. I also consider myself normal considering my circumstances.

 

[SkullChick]

Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?

You can consider yourself normal since you worked to get house, car, all stuff without any assistance or receiving disability benefit.

See the difference? She's not hypocrite because she feel like normal so she do what normal people did.

 

[PePe LePew]

Hypocrisy means 2 faces...I don't like anyone who are 2 faces, most of my old friend from school are hypocrisy also my relatives too.

I cannot stand that! Can you ?

Hmm is this thread about Hypocrisy (2 faces) or others ??? Confused!!!

 

[Hwy99]

Of course that's business they pick who have best qualities for the job position. But if deafness is purely the only reason you didn't get hired and the company have 15 or more employee that's against the law. Except for the obvious reason you can't get job such as telemarketer, or spend major of time communicating through phone, customers, on radio, CB radio and so on.
People will do same with different race, sexual preference, religion and all stuff this world sucks but all we can do is fight to succeed

*nods agree* We have to fight no matter what because we know we are right, they are wrong.

Anyway, about the discrimination, well the managers can pick other different reasons to avoid saying it's because of the disability, it's so tricky how the managers deal with the hiring applications..

 

[dreamchaser]

One thing struck me when watching sweet nothing in my ear in court setting, when lawyer said "why is it that you received government money for disability, recieves disability service but you guys said you're not disabled?" (I know its not right word for word but you get the idea)
And I notice few of post complaining for people calling deaf disabled and/or handicap so it brought me to put up an thread to discuss this.

So if you claim not to be disabled only deaf. Then why do you receive disability check? Why do you receive disability service and supports such as CART, interpreter, notetaker, FM system, hearing aid, cochlear implant, free health insurance, and so on? Shouldn't you not receive all those because you're not disabiled or handicap and can do anything like hearing people can do except hear?
Isn't that hypocrisy?

And for my opinion I agreed that deaf/hoh are disabled and handicap because the defination for those terms are not have the ability, and we are disabled by not having the ability to hear, and that's is it, it doesn't define anything more than our hearing impairment.

Discuss.

The definition of disability would be in play here. YOu are not disabled as human beings if you are deaf. You are, however, disadvantaged and disabled when competing in the hearing world. As such, your ability to overcome the challenges of "fitting in" to the requiresments that the hearing people put on you are limited. Even CI users and aid users, and oral Deafies are sometimes on the fringes of conversation, because speech reading is still necessary sometimes. Speech reading is not always good in hard situations, like a multi-person conversation, when people are talking at the same time. ETC.

This being the case, you still need the services provided by ADA, becuase without them, you may never have good access to the job market and society as a whole.

I have absolutely no qualms about providing funds for the deaf. I also don't kid myself that CIs can make you a totally hearing individual... there are limitations to what they can do.

My current ASL teacher is and has been oral for about 50 years. Even after all of these years of practice, she still struggles with oral communication. She prefers sign, but she can rely on oral skills to a degree. She is VERY highly educated. And, if she struggles with it, it is only reasonable to assume that those who are less educated, and have less years of practice might experience the same limitations as she does. The same goes for speech reading. Even in the best of circumstances, speech reading can be hard. Certain words look the same on the lips, and people are not trained in how to speak to someone who is speech reading. Their diction sucks sometimes, and they jumps subjects or topic, they use puns or humor that make no real sense making it hard to follow a conversation.

I personally hate the term Disabled, because that denotes a person being broken and not capable of performing its reason to exist... ie, a disabled car can not take you anywhere. Ears are only one part of a person. People don't exist just to talk and hear. People can still be very complete individuals and an asset to society, even if they have limits.

So,, I chose to think of the term LIMITED>

 

[Hwy99]

Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?

*nods* You are normal person even though you are, in fact, disability. Everyone have pros and cons about their health issues, and that's normal