Hypocrisy?

Mann_K05 said:
I seriously hope you dont mock deafies...

Well, let me ask you, are you ashamed yourself because of your deafness?

I jsut hate how hearing people look down on deafies as phoney and pitiful yet our needs are sometimes ignored by anti deafies. Besides, they also looked down on 'low' deafies.

That's why I refused to accpet to be disabled person until they DON'T look down on us...

I could less care if anti deafies mock pro deafies as if they are *oh-what-a-morron* deafies. I let them whatever they want as if YOU please for.
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Jessie-
Who are you talking to? Since I started this thread and I'm deaf so I'm confused, unless you're calling me hearing? :dunno: just clearing it up, thanks
 
dreamchaser said:
The definition of disability would be in play here. YOu are not disabled as human beings if you are deaf. You are, however, disadvantaged and disabled when competing in the hearing world. As such, your ability to overcome the challenges of "fitting in" to the requiresments that the hearing people put on you are limited. Even CI users and aid users, and oral Deafies are sometimes on the fringes of conversation, because speech reading is still necessary sometimes. Speech reading is not always good in hard situations, like a multi-person conversation, when people are talking at the same time. ETC.

This being the case, you still need the services provided by ADA, becuase without them, you may never have good access to the job market and society as a whole.

I have absolutely no qualms about providing funds for the deaf. I also don't kid myself that CIs can make you a totally hearing individual... there are limitations to what they can do.

My current ASL teacher is and has been oral for about 50 years. Even after all of these years of practice, she still struggles with oral communication. She prefers sign, but she can rely on oral skills to a degree. She is VERY highly educated. And, if she struggles with it, it is only reasonable to assume that those who are less educated, and have less years of practice might experience the same limitations as she does. The same goes for speech reading. Even in the best of circumstances, speech reading can be hard. Certain words look the same on the lips, and people are not trained in how to speak to someone who is speech reading. Their diction sucks sometimes, and they jumps subjects or topic, they use puns or humor that make no real sense making it hard to follow a conversation.

I personally hate the term Disabled, because that denotes a person being broken and not capable of performing its reason to exist... ie, a disabled car can not take you anywhere. Ears are only one part of a person. People don't exist just to talk and hear. People can still be very complete individuals and an asset to society, even if they have limits.

So,, I chose to think of the term LIMITED> :)
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Right disbaled car mean it can't go anywhere, disabled for deaf is broken ear.
You're not reading the thread word by word.
Limited is nicer way to say disabled.
 
"Limited", to me, sounds, well, limiting. That's not very positive.
 
I was born deaf/hard of hearing so still i am disabled and still always will be disabled no matter what because I do still use interpreters for hospital settings, etc. I use closed captioning to understand what people r saying on tv. without it I would be lost?

I also have Meniere's Disease so it does affect my almost daily every day lives. If I don't have that I would be out working and earn. I used to work for almost 14 years and I don't work again as I don't know when I have good days and bad days. It just hit me out of blue. I missed too much of work days so I have no choice but stay home.

On my good days I do help my mom do errands and cleaning her place. She is 70 and have emphsyema. She depend on oxygen full time. So I do help out with what I can when I am feeling ok. I like being flexible with my hours because I dont know when it will hit me.

On my bad days.. When it hit me then I will not be feeling well and have to stay in bed and watch tv and wait it out. Horrible headaches, dizziness, vertigo, and being light headed. It sucks. Sometimes it can last 3 days or so. No cure for it. :(

When I am boring- I do volunteer my time to help out at my son's school. At least I am doing something worthwhile. Better than nothing. :)
 
dreamchaser said:
The definition of disability would be in play here. YOu are not disabled as human beings if you are deaf. You are, however, disadvantaged and disabled when competing in the hearing world. As such, your ability to overcome the challenges of "fitting in" to the requiresments that the hearing people put on you are limited. Even CI users and aid users, and oral Deafies are sometimes on the fringes of conversation, because speech reading is still necessary sometimes. Speech reading is not always good in hard situations, like a multi-person conversation, when people are talking at the same time. ETC.

This being the case, you still need the services provided by ADA, becuase without them, you may never have good access to the job market and society as a whole.

I have absolutely no qualms about providing funds for the deaf. I also don't kid myself that CIs can make you a totally hearing individual... there are limitations to what they can do.

My current ASL teacher is and has been oral for about 50 years. Even after all of these years of practice, she still struggles with oral communication. She prefers sign, but she can rely on oral skills to a degree. She is VERY highly educated. And, if she struggles with it, it is only reasonable to assume that those who are less educated, and have less years of practice might experience the same limitations as she does. The same goes for speech reading. Even in the best of circumstances, speech reading can be hard. Certain words look the same on the lips, and people are not trained in how to speak to someone who is speech reading. Their diction sucks sometimes, and they jumps subjects or topic, they use puns or humor that make no real sense making it hard to follow a conversation.

I personally hate the term Disabled, because that denotes a person being broken and not capable of performing its reason to exist... ie, a disabled car can not take you anywhere. Ears are only one part of a person. People don't exist just to talk and hear. People can still be very complete individuals and an asset to society, even if they have limits.

So,, I chose to think of the term LIMITED> :)
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I would not "choose" (please note two letter o) limited, maybe DIFFERENT
 
I have a disability.

I am not disabled cuz I am able to work, own a house, have kids and so forth.

Big difference.

At my job and at home, I dont feel like I have a disability.

However, growing up in a strictly oral only environment without any support, I felt very disabled.

Why does it matter, anyway? I call it diversity...

Too bad society doesnt see it that way. Pyo is right...the employers arent really fair when it comes to giving deaf people a chance...all it takes for them to give deaf people a chance but no, they moan and groan about using the phone in a different way, having to hire terps for meetings, and so forth. As a result, the deaf person doesnt get hired despite working his/her asses off and of course, the deaf person is gonna need money to be able to live hence SSI or SSDI.

I have so many friends who are educated and very knowledgeable in their fields but it takes them twice as long to find jobs as my hearing friends who dont have the same level of education. I think there is something wrong with the picture and yes, my deaf friends did apply to numerous of companies. They didnt give up but it sure does get discouraging sometimes!

My deaf friend has a degree in biology and he applied for an entry level job working at a lab just to get his foot in but despite the lab having over 20 openings, they never called him. Kinda fishy, if u ask me?
 
Liebling:-))) said:
Interesting thread!!!

I do not deny the fact that deaf is a disability due lack of hearing itself but I consider myself as a normal person because I can do everything like normal people is job, house, family, drive a car, etc without depend on social assistance.

We don´t have SSI/SSA for disablity here in Germany but social assistance for everyone including hearing, not just disability who are out of job due health reasons under doctor´s order or jobless - wait for job application... etc


Do it make sense when I consider myself as a normal person?
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Yes, it makes sense. The way I read it, you are saying "I have a disability, but that does not disable me."
 
Reba said:
"Limited", to me, sounds, well, limiting. That's not very positive.
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I agree. Having a disability does not imply that one has functional limitations. To say one is limited is to say one is disabled.
 
Freaky Cat said:
I was born deaf/hard of hearing so still i am disabled and still always will be disabled no matter what because I do still use interpreters for hospital settings, etc. I use closed captioning to understand what people r saying on tv. without it I would be lost?

I also have Meniere's Disease so it does affect my almost daily every day lives. If I don't have that I would be out working and earn. I used to work for almost 14 years and I don't work again as I don't know when I have good days and bad days. It just hit me out of blue. I missed too much of work days so I have no choice but stay home.

On my good days I do help my mom do errands and cleaning her place. She is 70 and have emphsyema. She depend on oxygen full time. So I do help out with what I can when I am feeling ok. I like being flexible with my hours because I dont know when it will hit me.

On my bad days.. When it hit me then I will not be feeling well and have to stay in bed and watch tv and wait it out. Horrible headaches, dizziness, vertigo, and being light headed. It sucks. Sometimes it can last 3 days or so. No cure for it. :(

When I am boring- I do volunteer my time to help out at my son's school. At least I am doing something worthwhile. Better than nothing. :)
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You make a good point, Freaky Cat. A lot of the time, it is not the disability that actually causes the limitations, but the underlying reason for the disability that causes the limitations. Your Meniere's Disease adds a whole different set of problems to your life that someone who is genetically deaf would not have.
 
shel90 said:
I have a disability.

I am not disabled cuz I am able to work, own a house, have kids and so forth.

Big difference.

At my job and at home, I dont feel like I have a disability.

However, growing up in a strictly oral only environment without any support, I felt very disabled.

Why does it matter, anyway? I call it diversity...

Too bad society doesnt see it that way. Pyo is right...the employers arent really fair when it comes to giving deaf people a chance...all it takes for them to give deaf people a chance but no, they moan and groan about using the phone in a different way, having to hire terps for meetings, and so forth. As a result, the deaf person doesnt get hired despite working his/her asses off and of course, the deaf person is gonna need money to be able to live hence SSI or SSDI.

I have so many friends who are educated and very knowledgeable in their fields but it takes them twice as long to find jobs as my hearing friends who dont have the same level of education. I think there is something wrong with the picture and yes, my deaf friends did apply to numerous of companies. They didnt give up but it sure does get discouraging sometimes!

My deaf friend has a degree in biology and he applied for an entry level job working at a lab just to get his foot in but despite the lab having over 20 openings, they never called him. Kinda fishy, if u ask me?
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There you go. Deafness is a disability that you have. Society determines, through their attitudes and behaviors, whether they create obstacles that disable you.
 
jillio said:
Yes, it makes sense. The way I read it, you are saying "I have a disability, but that does not disable me."
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Yes, that's right.

Yes I have a disability and do not feel that I am a disabled because I can do everything except hear.

I would say "Do I look disabled"? if anyone ask me question "How do you cope/deal with your disablitly?" They ignore my question and then point my deafness. I will say back to them... "Yes I do have a disabilty is lack of hearing itself but I am normal and healthy and can do everything... so?

 
SkullChick said:
You can consider yourself normal since you worked to get house, car, all stuff without any assistance or receiving disability benefit.

See the difference? She's not hypocrite because she feel like normal so she do what normal people did.
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Exactly if anyone who deny their disability and get claim is a hyprocrite but.... but.... I would not consider it as hypocrite when the deafies claim their disability rights because of more expenses, we deafies have to pay more than hearies.

Well, deafies, wheelchair users and blind people have the reason to claim our disabliltiy rights is: (What we have here in Germany)

We do have disability card for travel anywhere around Germany and enter any park. We get % discount because of deafness - we can't hear the music, etc when we are in the park, etc., wheelchair users - don't have anything for wheelchair. blind - can't see....

The cost of clock alarm, flash lights, baby cries, etc are being cover by health insurance company because they are 5 or 6 times expensive than normal clock alarm, hearies buy from store.

50% tax and insurance discount for car or EUR 60 per annual for transportion because of contact with deaf people from different cities/towns and deaf communities, etc. The car repair cost deafies more than hearies because they can't hear little problem in car but hearies can... it cost hearies very less than deafies...

% tax discount in our month wage slip and 6 days extra special leave annual because we have to take our day off for important meeting with interpreters because many interpreters hardly have time for evenings but morning to late evening.

It does the same with wheelchair users and blind people... They do have disability is lack of walking and see. They do feel that they are normal people.

Wheelchair users can do everything except walking and get their rights.... house renovation, % tax etc. because the cost of house renovation for wheelchair users is expensive than the people who can walk.

Blind people can do everything except see and get their rights.... house renvolation, guide dog, % tax etc. same as above than the people who can see.

This is not hyprocite when they claim their disablity rights but I would consider it as hyprocite when they deny their disablity to get money from social assistance because they (health people) can't go work when they know the reason is their disablity. It would be understandable when there're severe disabled people which is different as healthy people who can do everything. They should say: "Yes I do have a disability" when they do not consider themselves as a disabled people but normal people because those word is better than "I am a disabled person".





 
rockdrummer said:
I tend to agree with you and I was kind of shocked when I first learned that some deafies don't consider themselves disabled or handicapped when "by definition" they are. I do respect those that don't want to be labled as such but I also agree that they should not enjoy any of the benefits then either. Personally I don't believe folks should be offended by definitions. They are just words to describe something.
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This is my interpretion of Deafies's word...

Yes, deafies don't consider themselves as a disabled or handicapped which mean is they feel that they are normal and healthy people.

Sure, they do know that they have disability but still consider themselves as a normal people because they can do everything except hear.

Yes, they would offend when you firm to them "Yes, you are disabled or handicapped" - it likely to put them down and ignore their positive feeling and motivation.

I would agree that it's hyporitic if they refused to accept their knowledge that they have disablity when they continue to claim their rights.

What do you think of those difference?
 
rockdrummer said:
I tend to agree with you and I was kind of shocked when I first learned that some deafies don't consider themselves disabled or handicapped when "by definition" they are. I do respect those that don't want to be labled as such but I also agree that they should not enjoy any of the benefits then either. Personally I don't believe folks should be offended by definitions. They are just words to describe something.
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My view interpretation as hearing person who expressed POV differently as the people with disability.

Yes, I am surprised when I read your post here because many hearies, I know in real life, admire the people with disability who consider themselves as normal people instead of feel sorry for them but positive their disablity instead of said Yes, I am disabled or Yes you are disabled.

It seem to me that you think those definition words are important to accurate them than accept the people with disability's positive feeling and moviatation when they know that they have disability and consider themselves as normal people?



 
Liebling:-))) said:
My view interpretation as hearing person who expressed POV differently as the people with disability.

Yes, I am surprised when I read your post here because many hearies, I know in real life, admire the people with disability who consider themselves as normal people instead of feel sorry for them but positive their disablity instead of said Yes, I am disabled or Yes you are disabled.

It seem to me that you think those definition words are important to accurate them than accept the people with disability's positive feeling and moviatation when they know that they have disability and consider themselves as normal people?



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I agree with you. Who is anyone to judge on how we feel about ourselves? If people who have different kinds of disabilities feel normal and not disabled, then why cant other people just accept that and not make a big issue out of it?

Really, I would hate it if someone told me that I am disabled or limited and I better accept it. It just feels like a put-down somewhat.
 
I used work at Bank and there had lot of discrimmion. They against my deafness. My manager and I didnt get along because she didn't approve me. She made employees to tell me what she want but employees changed the subject and told me what do. I got in trouble few times. I was working so hard. I searched for another job in staight 2 years. Many job had plenty opening but they never hire me. I had only two job interview. They told me that I was best quaility for job but big major problem are phone and commucation because I am doing accounting. This job reguire phone and commucation. I had very rough life. I was preg unexpect. I was forced to quit by bank because I had a lawyer and they had their lawyer and we went to Utah State to had meeting. I ended up applied ssdi because of my baby. I cannot sue every job that they told me that they cannot hire me because of commucation and phone.

I know that life are never being fair. Sigh
 
lilylover72 said:
I used work at Bank and there had lot of discrimmion. They against my deafness. My manager and I didnt get along because she didn't approve me. She made employees to tell me what she want but employees changed the subject and told me what do. I got in trouble few times. I was working so hard. I searched for another job in staight 2 years. Many job had plenty opening but they never hire me. I had only two job interview. They told me that I was best quaility for job but big major problem are phone and commucation because I am doing accounting. This job reguire phone and commucation. I had very rough life. I was preg unexpect. I was forced to quit by bank because I had a lawyer and they had their lawyer and we went to Utah State to had meeting. I ended up applied ssdi because of my baby. I cannot sue every job that they told me that they cannot hire me because of commucation and phone.

I know that life are never being fair. Sigh
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Whoever told you that is in violation of the law. If you were the best qualified, then the law forbids them from not hiring you because of the reasons they stated. There are inexpensive accommodations that can be made that would allow you to perform the functions of the job with minimal accommodations that would not change the essentail functions fo the job. This would have been the perfect case to fight under the ADA.

However, society requires that the person being discriminated against obtain an expensive lawyer, and devote considerable time to fight what is an obvious violation of federal law.

And then people wonder why some deaf choose to apply for SSI or SSDI! It is not the deafness that forces them to do so, it is society's discrimination and refusal to follow the law that forces them to do so. The plain fact of the matter is that people need some sort of income in order to live. If they are prevented from working because an employer will not do something as inexpensive and non-disruptive to the workplace as allowing an employee to communicate through email rather than by phone society is the faction that has made them disabled, not the disability itself.

So where is the hypocracy? Is it with the deaf person who attempts to work, claims to have a disability but not be disabled, but is prevented from working by societal attitudes and discriminatory treatment by empoyers? Or is the hypocracy within the greater society who tells us that we all need to work to become fully functioning and independent, and then blatantly violates laws by refusing to make accommdations for employees, 51% of which whould cost the empoyer nothing, thus preventing people from working? The hypocracy is found in a society that passes a law such as the ADA that is intended to benefit a population that is treated differentially, and then refuses to obey such laws because of a minor inconvenience to the individual. Society says, "People with disabilites should become employed and self supoorting. Let's suppoet laws that allow them to do that." On the other hand, inreality, they say at the same time, "I don't want a personw with a disability working for my comapny because I might have to do something that I find to be inconvenient, but which really doesn't cause any hardship for me at all. Let someone else hire them." There's your hypocracy stating us all in the face.
 
jillio said:
You make a good point, Freaky Cat. A lot of the time, it is not the disability that actually causes the limitations, but the underlying reason for the disability that causes the limitations. Your Meniere's Disease adds a whole different set of problems to your life that someone who is genetically deaf would not have.
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Before I got Meniere's Disease. I considered myself normal person who could do anything but hear. I was able to hold job, have my own place and everything. I didnt considered myself disabled cuz I was able to work.

After the accident everything changed now its getting hard as I was not able to go in work every day like I used to. My ex boss said I am no longer dependable. That hurts because I used to be a good and hard worker?

Nothing I can do about it but accept my disease and go on living my life. Funny my soon to be ex husband didnt accept the way I am with my Meniere's Disease. He think I am lazy and faking it? How do I explain all of the symptoms that i do get? also with that all of the dr appointments and cat scan. The result was Meniere's Disease. jeez at him.. Oh well.

I just hope there will be a cure. so I can be back to normal? sigh...
 
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