How true is your "loyalty" to deaf-world

[donotfeedbsugar]

According to "A Journey into the Deaf-World" which is the book I'm reading for my Deaf culture class that I will be taking in August, it says "There is a fierce group loyalty in Deaf-World, no doubt reinforced by the shared experience of being Deaf ina world dominated by hearing people." It also goes on to say that, "The members of Deaf-Worler believe, as do members of other cultural groups, that one should marry withion one's minority: [meaning that] marriage with a hearing person is frowned upon." .....WOW, RIGHT?

Now, I was shocked when I read this....I laughed too like...what the hell...seriously? But at the same time, I was like this is a culture that no matter what...whether I cover my hearing aid up, take my hearing aid off or show my hearing aid or openly state that I'm HOH to anyone that NO MATTER WHAT...I am a part of this culture. However, I do not believe in hearing people go with hearing people and deaf with the deaf. That is an option based on LOVE for most people but I don't ever think it should be to the case of your "audio status" or lack thereof.

I DO understand that other cultures have it where they would conduct arranged marriages and whatnot but I can't judge that since that is their culture but when it comes to race, sex or audio status....stop it.... It's more of a..."that's the way it should be just because..." and it should really be up to the individual who he or she wants to be with. Me, for example, I'm engaged to a hearing person who accepts me for who I am. I wasn't out looking for a deaf/HOH person...nor was I looking for a hearing person. It was whoever was a reflection and permeates every aspect of me positively...meaning he is a lil nutball sometimes (as I am) but yeah...that's my say on that sub....What do you have to say about that?

 

[CJB]

Relax. The book you're reading is just one book, it's not the say-all for how every Deaf/HH person should live. There are plenty of deaf/hh people that date "outside the Deaf world". I'm with a hearing person, and off the top of my head, I can think of a handful of Deaf people in relationships with hearing people.

 

[donotfeedbsugar]

Relax. The book you're reading is just one book, it's not the say-all for how every Deaf/HH person should live. There are plenty of deaf/hh people that date "outside the Deaf world". I'm with a hearing person, and off the top of my head, I can think of a handful of Deaf people in relationships with hearing people.

LOL... Not flipping out...I just thought it was pretty funny. It had me looking at the back of the book and the name of the authors when I read that...lol. I was just like....WHAT? It was pretty funny to me, I had to share.

But CJB, do you know why it's frowned upon for the Deaf-World? Or is it the obvious because we can all understand our own culture and understand one another better?

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Which Deaf-World are we talking about? There's several of them.

 

[donotfeedbsugar]

Wirelessly posted

Which Deaf-World are we talking about? There's several of them.

Well this one I'm reading didn't really clarify as to which. I assumed that they were saying any Deaf World...hence World *shrugs*

 

[Mrs Bucket]

I have the book as you do.

Please remember who wrote the books and look into the personal history of each author who contributed towards the book.

The book is a must scholar piece for every individual who is involved with the Deaf Community from the medical field to the social field and the psychological field.

I encourage you to read more into the chapter why Deaf intermarriages are so preserved.

In the past, Deaf Intermarriages in the past equalled the success of the Deaf future.

Nowadays, Deaf Intermarriages is the norm. We marry who we are and we value our marriages. We do frown upon other Deaf people marrying the hearing community because this means more frustrations in communications, a shift in the parenting role when it comes to discipline.

Again, I encourage you to read more into the chapter about Deaf Intermarriages. Page 380- 381.

Samuel Gridley Howe for his belief that "defectives" should be wiped out of sight.

National Education Association supported the philosophy with oralism and the Day school program stating "Deaf people who sign - tend to segregate themselves from society- to intermarry. They are freaks, dummies."

 

[donotfeedbsugar]

I have the book as you do.

Please remember who wrote the books and look into the personal history of each author who contributed towards the book.

The book is a must scholar piece for every individual who is involved with the Deaf Community from the medical field to the social field and the psychological field.

I encourage you to read more into the chapter why Deaf intermarriages are so preserved.

In the past, Deaf Intermarriages in the past equalled the success of the Deaf future.

Nowadays, Deaf Intermarriages is the norm. We marry who we are and we value our marriages. We do frown upon other Deaf people marrying the hearing community because this means more frustrations in communications, a shift in the parenting role when it comes to discipline.

Again, I encourage you to read more into the chapter about Deaf Intermarriages. Page 380- 381.

Samuel Gridley Howe for his belief that "defectives" should be wiped out of sight.

National Education Association supported the philosophy with oralism and the Day school program stating "Deaf people who sign - tend to segregate themselves from society- to intermarry. They are freaks, dummies."

Wow, that's interesting. Sad.....yet interesting. Oh, but I will definitely read into it more. I can understand the preservation of culture and language and it would be less of a frustration in terms of the hearing and deaf, but I don't feel that because someone is stamped certified whether it be the medical, pyschological or social field or the Deaf even should feel that way. To err is human, right? As CBJ did say, it IS just a book. One of the many books about Deaf culture at that. I have been reading more threads about how we should at least TRY to mend the gap in terms of Deaf Culture to at least allow hearing people to understand the language and culture that we practice.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Wow, that's interesting. Sad.....yet interesting. Oh, but I will definitely read into it more. I can understand the preservation of culture and language and it would be less of a frustration in terms of the hearing and deaf, but I don't feel that because someone is stamped certified whether it be the medical, pyschological or social field or the Deaf even should feel that way. To err is human, right? As CBJ did say, it IS just a book. One of the many books about Deaf culture at that. I have been reading more threads about how we should at least TRY to mend the gap in terms of Deaf Culture to at least allow hearing people to understand the language and culture that we practice.

I must beg to differ on CJB.

It is not just a book.

It is history.

It is our Deaf-World now documented on a scholar book and used at colleges and universities.

It is not a book, again. Doctors in every medical aspect are encouraged to educate themselves to further enhance their personal knowledge of the Deaf community using this book.

CJB may not be aware of the vital importance of this book because it dates back several hundred years and now officially recognized.

You will be impacted on so many levels when you take your Deaf Culture course.

 

[naisho]

?

You should understand as with all books, the author has his/her own opinions. It's very complex for some of the things you mentioned. A black person might not hold the same views to a white person upon reading a book. Nor will a Jewish person might feel the same with what a Russian has read.

"One size does not fit all".

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Ah, but as a amauter historian, I disagree, Mrs Buckets. It would be foolish to base Deaf culture and Deaf history on one secondary source since there's a bias in everything that have been written and spoken/signed. One must considers all the documents recorded as much as possible before making their own decision and drawing their own conclusion.

 

[donotfeedbsugar]

You should understand as with all books, the author has his/her own opinions. It's very complex for some of the things you mentioned. A black person might not hold the same views to a white person upon reading a book. Nor will a Jewish person might feel the same with what a Russian has read.

"One size does not fit all".

I understand what you are saying @black/white and Jewish/Russian but what about when it comes to me? I'm classified as Deaf and growing up I read everything about it....in this case, not everything. So where is the difference where I'm looking into our culture and reading information and history that pertains to me?

 

[donotfeedbsugar]

I must beg to differ on CJB.

It is not just a book.

It is history.

It is our Deaf-World now documented on a scholar book and used at colleges and universities.

It is not a book, again. Doctors in every medical aspect are encouraged to educate themselves to further enhance their personal knowledge of the Deaf community using this book.

CJB may not be aware of the vital importance of this book because it dates back several hundred years and now officially recognized.

You will be impacted on so many levels when you take your Deaf Culture course.

I'm really sure I will, no doubt@Deaf Culture course. Just don't agree with most of the things being stated in the book thus far. I mean, it's okay! It's not going to deter me from becoming successful because I'm not going to marry another Deaf significant other. But like Naisho said, authors have their own opinions about a book.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Relax, dontfeedbsugar. The book is only a secondary source; It's written by a goup of people who collected anadotes, letters, collected data and looked at historical documents, interacted in the Deaf culture and has written what they think is true.

It's an important secondary source, but it's not end-all, end-all; for that you need to conduct the same things as the authors by collecting primary sources then determine yourself what version of history and culture you want to take up.

Nonetheless, Journey into the Deaf-World is still important because it offers one point of view about a myraid of topics within a specific culture; if we don't publish those virewpoints, then everything would be too information-dense to cover in one or two courses.

 

[donotfeedbsugar]

Wirelessly posted

Relax, dontfeedbsugar. The book is only a secondary source; It's written by a goup of people who collected anadotes, letters, collected data and looked at historical documents, interacted in the Deaf culture and has written what they think is true.

It's an important secondary source, but it's not end-all, end-all; for that you need to conduct the same things as the authors by collecting primary sources then determine yourself what version of history and culture you want to take up.

Nonetheless, Journey into the Deaf-World is still important because it offers one point of view about a myraid of topics within a specific culture; if we don't publish those virewpoints, then everything would be too information-dense to cover in one or two courses.

I wasn't really tripping if anybody got that impression, I was simply trying to understand and have a thread/discussion about it and thanks for the clarification, Souggy. I get it now.

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Wirelessly posted

Hence I asked "which Deaf-World" are you loyal to?
It's really a rheotrical question.

I sure ain't loyal to the culture found amongst the "blood ties." Nor am I loyal who thinks it's their natural rights to demand to be taken care of by others.

However I am loyal to ASL, and the culture that surrounds it. I am more inclined to marry someone with knowledge of ASL, preferrably fluent, than an oral person; however I am not going to be picky about what part of the puzzle she or I fit into.

 

[Mrs Bucket]

Wirelessly posted

Ah, but as a amauter historian, I disagree, Mrs Buckets. It would be foolish to base Deaf culture and Deaf history on one secondary source since there's a bias in everything that have been written and spoken/signed. One must considers all the documents recorded as much as possible before making their own decision and drawing their own conclusion.

I encourage you to read this book & take the Deaf Culture course as those two go hand in hand.

I cannot stress the emphasis of my sentence here, please read this book as "The Deaf World" as a lot of factual issues and factual stories have happened.

It is documented without bias as well, now I cannot state this because Ben Bahan is a CODA. Both his parents are Deaf. Harlan Lane's background is neurolinguistics & focusing on Deaf people and ASL. Harlan Lane has written several successful Deaf books as well as scholarly articles.

Robert Hoffmeister is an Associate Professor of Education at Boston University. His field focuses on ASL; linguistics & acquisition.


I share my perspective here in this thread however I had to hold myself back, very hard, so I wouldn't pre-set this thread with my own bias.

Naturally it is hard. I already come with a set of pre-conceived notions of what my Deaf World is. I don't deny it. Growing up, I thought the world was a Deaf World, people signed and everyone was Deaf. Everyone was the same until that was shattered.

The wee 6 year old girl had to discover when her own father told her not to sign to the bank teller. I cried and cried for days thinking everyone signed and was the same. I'd point to the pizza delivery man and sign "Deaf? NO!!"

This is where it is tough, even at 38 years old, I won't deny it! My pre-conceived notions of The Deaf World is my safety cushion from the cruel harsh hearing world.

This is where the book truly helps puts enlightenment into why some people in the Deaf community reply to certain situational triggers. We band together and others accuse us of mob mentality or lately the new "Deafhood cult mentality".

I don't fault them for doing this, each of us respond to different situational triggers.

This is where the book is important to read. It is one of so many books I encourage people to read.

Souggy brings up an excellent point; just because it is/was written in a book does not mean it is just so. It's not a set of rules that we, as a Deaf society follow.

A perfect example to share with you, if I may.

In the past, Stokoe taught English at the College now known as Gallaudet University. He noticed the Deaf students signing a particular several set of signs. Stokoe wasn't studying ASL itself, per se. He was fascinated at the linguistics of the sign language.

He was able to document the numbers of signing the Deaf Community had while communicating. The uproar of this whole situation was because Stokoe was a hearing person at Gallaudet. He was able to document the syntax, morphology, phonology and the linguistics concept of ASL.

Stokoe was able to successfully prove that ASL evolved from its own natural form language from the Deaf community itself at its own natural environment- Gallaudet with the Deaf students.

William Stokoe, Jr. The Father of ASL Linguistics

Apply this situation, Stokoe received so much criticism for so many years until it was finally recognised that ASL was/is a true form of language.

The Deaf World in the past was not recognized because it was conceived with so many pre-conceived notions from many people; "freaks", "sterilize them" and so on.

Right now, The Deaf World is part of the general population. It isn't about assimilation. Hope this makes the picture much bigger.

 

[A]

When it comes to raising deaf children together, a hearing person ususally want to raise him hearing while a deaf person wants to raise him deaf. I'm sure there is alot of conflict in the marriage because of cultural differences on how they view deafness. Especially nowadays, when deciding to implant your deaf child.

 

[A]

I understand what you are saying @black/white and Jewish/Russian but what about when it comes to me? I'm classified as Deaf and growing up I read everything about it....in this case, not everything. So where is the difference where I'm looking into our culture and reading information and history that pertains to me?

Have you ever read older medical view on deafness? And older medical sex education? They usually say deaf should not marry deaf

 

[kokonut]

Wirelessly posted

Hence I asked "which Deaf-World" are you loyal to?
It's really a rheotrical question.

I sure ain't loyal to the culture found amongst the "blood ties." Nor am I loyal who thinks it's their natural rights to demand to be taken care of by others.

However I am loyal to ASL, and the culture that surrounds it. I am more inclined to marry someone with knowledge of ASL, preferrably fluent, than an oral person; however I am not going to be picky about what part of the puzzle she or I fit into.

Yeah, sure. Wait until she sheds all of her clothes for you and all logic gets thrown out the window and you wouldn't care how she communicates.

 

[A]

National Education Association supported the philosophy with oralism and the Day school program stating "Deaf people who sign - tend to segregate themselves from society- to intermarry. They are freaks, dummies."

They have been saying that for years. They don't want deaf to marry deaf. yet, at the same time some hearing people don't want to marry us either. Yeah, no sex for us. I'm glad some hearing are not afraid, and some are willing to learn ASL but some of them make me sick (like my deaf sister's hearing husband and exhusbands).