How to think like a Christian

The Heretic

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How does a Christian think? The most efficient way to answer this question is to observe them in an intellectual setting, especially in the debate arena. If a Christian meets a person who has yet to join the herd, he will subject them to certain dialogue with the hopes of gaining another member to the fold, all in the name of their religion.

The specious reasoning of antiphilosophy
  • A typical debate requires proof or proposes a truth. The typical Christian reverses this and demands an equal burden from the person who has yet to be convinced of their conviction. As a result of this backwards reasoning the Christian argues that all forms of beliefs, even unbelief are based on the same type of faith. Therefore the correct choice ought to be on the most promising side.

    In this tactic, the Christian refuses to present a clear and distinct argument for their proposition. They also insist that all beliefs are grounded in a quasi-hypothesis of faith, ergo; both atheism and theism are based on the same foundation of human ignorance. This tactic involves a shift from gradient thinking to absolutes: where gradient thought moves in degrees, indicating superior and inferior beliefs, while absolutist thought is either/or, indicating black and white options. In philosophical terminology, the former is dialogic - where there are many different truths - and the latter, dialectic: where there is only one Truth. And the dialectic resolves in the Absolute; which is for the religious minded, God.

The psychological approach
  • The Christian exploits the frailties of people, particularly their psychological weaknesses, existential anxiety and/or physical instincts in order to reinforce their dogmatic religion. Alternating between threats and promises, the Christian seduces or exhorts the recruit. It is no wonder Christianity flourishes fastest among the suffering, the tragic and the hopeless. Historically, when Christianity was at its strongest, it was the Dark Ages. While Christianity is in decline in the western nations, it still is most productive/fruitful in the less fortunate areas of poverty or war. Suffering is an excellent ingredient for religion, for during cultural and social strife religion draws followers quickest. For a person who has experienced intensive psychological stress and existential discontent, the siren call of Christianity is irresistible. After all, the promise of the afterlife does seem to absolve the pain and anguish of the current life. In addition, the mythological images of Christian metaphysics, hell and the devil helps to reinforce its grip on the instincts, and the notions of sin exacerbates guilt and shame.

Apologetics to reinforce dogma
  • A third tactic is disguising their fundamentalist beliefs as an authentic philosophical position. The uproar over creationism as a legitimate science in our schools has nothing to do with science and everything to do with political power legitimizing religious dogma. There is no empirical evidence whatsoever for the creation hypothesis besides the Sola Scriptura, which is based on the fundamentalist's myopic interpretation of genesis mythology as something literal.Christian theologians and philosophical theists are intellectually crippled by the presumption that their prejudices are the Truth. Ergo, they must assume the very object of their truth in order to prove the superiority of their particular religion or philosophy over others. However, Christians are not content with circular logic, they desire to go beyond intellectual jousts and render their belief in the Absolute with human attributes, a personal being in order to make him more down to earth and appealing for the masses. Not only God is the Unmovable Mover, he must be a Perfect being who is the very essence of Love, who cares about the petty concerns of his followers.

    But the Christian must also be capable of being in self-deception regarding certain problems: How can evil exist in a creation that is created by the perfect creator? How can omnipotence be powerless before evil, and if omnipotence does tolerate it as something necessary, is it absolutely good? Is evil a necessary byproduct of free will? If so, why is free will supposed to be limited by the good? If God creates people to be free, and a person chooses a path without God's approval, why is it sinful to act according to one's own nature? If suicide is a sin, then nobody can die on their own terms any more than they can live because they did not have any choice in living at all. In the case of first cause, why does God not require a cause himself while the universe does? If the concept and the motives of an infinite and perfect entity are incomprehensible to us as mortal beings, then how can we know his emotions, morality or desires at all? If God is incomprehensible, then why isn't the absence of God incomprehensible as well? Why did God bother create a universe? If it is a test like most Christians believe, and God is omnipotent, then doesn't he already know the outcome? If he does, then why bother going through all of it and have his creation undergo so much pain and suffering to outcomes he already knows? Isn't that sadistic? If life is a test and an entrance exam for heaven, then the tester is ignorant because the creator has awarded free will to his creation. Therefore, the creator is not omniscient. And so on….

Quoting scripture at the drop of a hat
  • A simple quote from the bible or an assertion supported by the bible is enough to make a good point and is a counterargument in itself. However, since the bible is always open to interpretation, given the thousands of Christian churches, it means the Christian is capable of adopting something metaphorical and contemplate it as a symbol for their lives. But this in no way means the book is holy or the final word on human activities. After all, we could be equally enslaved to another book, the Koran or the Da Vinci Code. The religious person is dependant, and is guided by an idée fixe, and desires the result of a feeling instead of reasoning or rational thought or thinking for themselves throughout life. In every argument and opinion the Christian's enslavement and capitulation is constantly demonstrated. The ultimate price of Christianity is a mind absent of all possibility or insight, capable of regurgitating the dogmas of an authoritarian regime.


The freethinker's attempt to reason or attempt to participate a conversation with the religious minded person is usually an exercise in futility. The Christian's thought pattern has been entrenched by dogma. While their claims of open-mindedness and intellectual exercises are always limited to auxiliary subjects of interpretations or metaphysics, but the a priori beliefs are untouched or indubitable. There is no honest exploration of possibilities, because they must indoctrinate and spread the dogma. Their favorite victims are the anxious, the unsure, and those seeking for the answer to the meaning of their lives. Once a victim is identified, the Christian gets busy by unleashing a metaphysic of fear and anxiety and braying a morality which only degrades humanity. It is no coincidence that religion attracts women and the older people who are close to the end, and those who have physical or spiritual issues.

:smash:
 
Bashing Christians?

Well,

1. Why don't Atheists have sex with sisters, brothers, aunts, uncles, you know incests? Since the Bible said don't.
2. Why not go ahead and have sex with men and women? Why not?
YOu don't believe in hell.
3. Why not have sex in front of your children? You don't need moral. Why
should Atheists have moral? Native Indians did it in front their kids in tee pee.
4. And women should go ahead and sell sex... yeah do porno, without guilt.
5. And also... why get married? Atheists don't have to make committment...
Why be faithful, when you don't have faith in God or whoever?
You can cheat on your wife, don't listen to the 10th commandment.
6. And yeah go ahead and have abortion....
7. Suicide.... if you are in wheelchair and in pain everyday.... since
you don't pray, and yeah why depend on doctors who only want your money and won't cure you if you don't have insurance. So kill yourself, be like
China or South Korea.... nonChristian countries...

Updated: 08:01 AM EST
FEATURE-S.Korea grasps for ways to tackle surge in suicides
By Kim Kyoung-wha, Reuters

SEOUL (Reuters) - Faced with a wave of suicides by South Koreans from all walks of life, Yoo Byoung-jong has taken on a new job.

The Seoul policeman now patrols bridges in the capital to try to stop desperate people hurling themselves into the murky waters of the Han River.

South Korean suicides have doubled in a decade and are now the leading cause of death for people in their 20s and 30s. Almost twice as many kill themselves as die in road accidents.
 
...and like that! Went right over her head.

Um, ya wanna take a stab at my post, TTT? Please try addressing it instead of playing with your obviously leading questions. :dunno:
 
The Heretic said:
The freethinker's attempt to reason or attempt to participate a conversation with the religious minded person is usually an exercise in futility.
Definitely yes. I learn about that from having these debates with christians. Not only around here but at several communities & IRL (In Real Life). That's why I no longer get involved into these kind of debates around here anymore ever since I finally face the fact... Curse of the freethinker, damn it! Why am I choose to be a freethinker?!? ;)

The Heretic said:
The Christian's thought pattern has been entrenched by dogma. While their claims of open-mindedness and intellectual exercises are always limited to auxiliary subjects of interpretations or metaphysics, but the a priori beliefs are untouched or indubitable.
Very interesting. That requires more researching and psychology analyzing.


The Heretic, this article is amazing. With this article's help, I finally understand their mind, their POV and their way of thinking. Where did you find this amazing article? This article is really mind-blowing.

If you don't want to post the source in the public, can you pm me? I definitely have to convince my co-worker and editor to allow me to use this article as 'base' for our 'second' article to print. I will need the source so we can contact them for permission and such for reprint.

I already download this topic on my computer and save it :D

Great topic :thumb:

Edit: Apologetics to reinforce dogma section is very good. Few of these questions... I asked around and never, ever recieve the 'straight' answers from them... but read this article, I completely understand why I couldn't get the answers.
 
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Only the pop brings true enlightenment...

...when one hears it when they finally pull their head out of their ass.

Magatsu said:
.... Curse of the freethinker, damn it! Why am I choose to be a freethinker?!? ;)

There's no curse. You can always choose to change your mind and be something else! :)

Magatsu said:
Very interesting. That requires more researching and psychology analyzing.
But i'm afraid your proposal will not turn up anything. Research will only produce irrelevant statistics, and psychology will only result in the justification of a psychological theory of man, rather than new insights about a particular religion.

magatsu said:
The Heretic, this article is amazing. With this article's help, I finally understand their mind, their POV and their way of thinking. Where did you find this amazing article? This article is really mind-blowing.
I wrote it. ;) You might want to look at my other posts.
If you don't want to post the source in the public, can you pm me? I definitely have to convince my co-worker and editor to allow me to use this article as 'base' for our 'second' article to print. I will need the source so we can contact them for permission and such for reprint. I already download this topic on my computer and save it :D Great topic :thumb:
I hate to break it to you, but this "article" is not my best work. It is not a very good essay because it operates on unfair characterizations and has far too many polemical devices. In other words, i was being very provocative and one-sided in my rant. My critique of the Christian is not limited to Christians themselves, but a fundamental strain of thought that is all-too-human.

Edit: Apologetics to reinforce dogma section is very good. Few of these questions... I asked around and never, ever recieve the 'straight' answers from them... but read this article, I completely understand why I couldn't get the answers.
You and me both, brother. Either the answers you got were unsatisfactory, because they are mostly arguments from ignorance, or you wasted your time with people who have never thought critically, and they happen to be Christians.
 
How does a Christian think?

Thank you for your post Heritic and your input too Magatsu. I rarely get to hear how athiests see the world around them. I do not agree with the opinions you posted, but they are obviously deep seated beliefs and even if someone did offer you some sort of proof of the existance of God, I seriously doubt your faith in your own beliefs would be swayed. I don't say this to ridicule your beliefs, as your tome has ridiculed mine. But it appears to me that while you put a great deal of thought and effort into this writing, you have not seriously studied the subject about which you write. Just my personal opinion.
 
You remind me such as old Atheist. Yeah I remember all that stuffs, lol. Well, I am born again because I understood the SIN system. Atheist thing is my past.

You said that we are in the test under God. That is wrong. We sin-ed and we are separated from God. We can't join holy world just because that we sin against the holy. So we all have to suffer under Satan, the father of lair. We can't do anything without god. Jesus came on our world to take us away from slave of sin. That is where Christianity came from. We believe that Jesus Christ saves us from salve of SIN by his cross (curf.). We also believed that Jesus Christ rose from death. We believe that Jesus Christ will come very soon for his 2nd return. We have to put our faith on Jesus Christ that he is lord. We also have to follow Jesus Christ's way to keep up with our faith. So we can be saved by Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. That is basic.

So, are you trying to say that you rejected Jesus Christ as lord? That is blunt question.
 
I know some Christians that do some of what you said in the article, however I am not one of them. I try to find proof in everyday life. I even ot my atheist friend to admit that what i said was very convincing and she thought that it was true, she just didn't want to follow any of the rules God set out for us, which I believe are there to protect us (like our parents rule of not touching the stove, or looking before you cross the street.)
 
The apologist rears his head

Crazymanw00t said:
You remind me such as old Atheist. Yeah I remember all that stuffs, lol. Well, I am born again because I understood the SIN system. Atheist thing is my past. You said that we are in the test under God. That is wrong. We sin-ed and we are separated from God. We can't join holy world just because that we sin against the holy. So we all have to suffer under Satan, the father of lair. We can't do anything without god. Jesus came on our world to take us away from slave of sin. That is where Christianity came from. We believe that Jesus Christ saves us from salve of SIN by his cross (curf.). We also believed that Jesus Christ rose from death. We believe that Jesus Christ will come very soon for his 2nd return. We have to put our faith on Jesus Christ that he is lord. We also have to follow Jesus Christ's way to keep up with our faith. So we can be saved by Father, Jesus Christ, and Holy Spirit. That is basic.
I am well aware of the Christian explanation of sin. However, this completely fails to answer the problem of foreknowledge. God knew exactly what would happen with his creation, what decisions and actions Adam and Eve would make, long before he created them due to his perfect knowledge, and he is also responsible for the rules of morality because he is the author of morality. Therefore, since God is omniscient and all-powerful, God is responsible for the actions of his creation. If God can stop evil and he desires to stop evil as well, then where else did it come from, other that God himself?

So, are you trying to say that you rejected Jesus Christ as lord? That is blunt question.
I respect Jesus the man. Jesus as God is little more than mythology and owes a lot to the religious propaganda of Paul. There's nothing to reject except falsehood and propaganda. :lol:
 
How do you disagree without insulting?

Codger said:
But it appears to me that while you put a great deal of thought and effort into this writing, you have not seriously studied the subject about which you write. Just my personal opinion.

Can you explain how you arrived at this personal opinion? Why do you think i have not seriously studied the subject?

Is this because if a person has a different opinion than yours regarding Christianity, they must not have seriously studied the subject? :eek:

That would be a huge non-sequitur. :lol:
 
Postscript

If anyone is interested, I will be more than happy to post my thoughts about sin as an infinite debt.
 
The Heretic said:
Can you explain how you arrived at this personal opinion? Why do you think i have not seriously studied the subject?

Is this because if a person has a different opinion than yours regarding Christianity, they must not have seriously studied the subject? :eek:

That would be a huge non-sequitur. :lol:

You are engaging in a tactic called "baiting". I have no intention of debating you about the validity of your opinions or mine.
 
Well

Why do Atheists always have problems with GOD?
Why do they mentioned God more than me?

Everytime I come on this board and on AOL board and other board...
And I see Atheists mentioned about GOD, then 10th Commandment stone
removed, remove God from dollars, and ban prayer, and God this and God that.... Evolution and things like that.

If Atheists just SHUT THE FUCK UP, then everybody would have
forgotten about GOD. Even Gay people bring it up all the time.
Moral and Value, blah blah blah....

SIGH, I am so sick and tired of all of these religion debates...
I don't remember ever pray in school.... All I remember we had 10 minutes silence at school. I am so sick of Muslims, these holy war stunt....

Come on,,, Atheists, just shut up about it.

I remember when I was at Gallaudet class,,, I was taking English Reading....
for the summer.
And I had this Professor who is an Atheist,,, and he kept mentioned GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD GOD.....
He pissed me off.... and he made us read the Bible and books about God and tell us about some sad story at the hospital, and whine why God did that and this.... why he allowed us to suffer....
It makes me miserable....

Atheists, STOP it.... you are only making Christians go to church more....
It is your fault that Bush won again.

So shut the hell up!!!!!!! :pissed:
 
Kicking up a storm of dust and complain nobody can see...

Codger said:
You are engaging in a tactic called "baiting". I have no intention of debating you about the validity of your opinions or mine.
:roll:

Puh-leeeze!

I am not "baiting" anyone.

I wanted to know why you believed that I did not "seriously study the subject." You chose to run away and stick your head in the sand instead of engaging me in good faith. A honest answer would show me where you were coming from, and that will take the discussion to the next level.

Worse, you are speculating about my motives instead of the subject. Now that is a disingenuous tactic in any rational discourse.
 
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third time's the charm

TTT said:
...incoherent ramble deleted to spare bandwidth....

TTT, this may come as a shock to you, but I am not an atheist.

Do you want to take a stab at addressing my OP, instead of indulging in your own soapbox rhetoric?

Your first post is crippled by the false presumption that Christianity is the source of morality. You will need to justify that first. And here in your 2nd post, you chose to go off a irrelevant tangent better suited to your autobiography. Please try and stay on topic and don't hijack my thread. Thanks!
 
The Heretic said:
If anyone is interested, I will be more than happy to post my thoughts about sin as an infinite debt.

Yeah please at new thread. I always love to read other people's essay or thoughts on something. It makes us understand with other's people's view on something.
--------------
What religious are you part of? Believe in God? Christian (Born-again?)?
 
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.


The freethinker's attempt to reason or attempt to participate a conversation with the religious minded person is usually an exercise in futility. The Christian's thought pattern has been entrenched by dogma. While their claims of open-mindedness and intellectual exercises are always limited to auxiliary subjects of interpretations or metaphysics, but the a priori beliefs are untouched or indubitable. There is no honest exploration of possibilities, because they must indoctrinate and spread the dogma.
:smash:[/QUOTE]

Absolutely! The black and white mentality leaves no room for exploring what really fits with an individual. It's very freeing to be open minded, even tho the fear and control of the religious right has had an outward devastating effect in our world, I know that all is not as it seems.
 
Crazymanw00t said:
Yeah please at new thread. I always love to read other people's essay or thoughts on something. It makes us understand with other's people's view on something.
Ya sure? Its gonna be a humdinger of a whopper of a pettifoggery full of mind-numbing hyperbole! Will post a new thread soon.
What religious are you part of? Believe in God? Christian (Born-again?)?
oh I don't go to Church cuz I have serious issues with organized religion. Some times I think religion is the only reason poor people don't kill off the rich. :lol:
 
The Heretic said:
oh I don't go to Church cuz I have serious issues with organized religion. Some times I think religion is the only reason poor people don't kill off the rich. :lol:

Interesting, I have money and I always faith in Jesus Christ. Do you mind to explain me why do you have serious issue with organized religion? Maybe you deal-ed with wrong kind of religious people. Remember this there are million of fake christian in world. Only 1/3 of christian is true christian. You may want to read my thread, "Who has the Salvation? Christianity" on this Debate thread.
 
Aye, Crazy, understood. I did not say that all Christians are poor people. My critique is much more subtle than that. ;)

The reason i have issues with organized religion is that, basically, Jesus knocked down the Great Dragon of superstition, only to have Paul put it back on its feet in Jesus' name. :lol:
 
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