How do you sign...

[kellycat]

What is the sign for "fluent", or if there is no sign for that word, how would you sign the concept of it? I would like to know how to say "I am not fluent in sign language, only conversational", for example.

I wondered if I would use the signs for "exact" or "perfect". Or maybe initialize that sign with "F", would that work?

Around here (language weirdness center of the ASL universe, Wisconsin) most of the time this is how I see the sign "perfect"...with an F handshape.

As for fluent, it depends on what you mean. Are you talking about the rate/pace/smoothness of the language? Or do you mean the overall ability and large vocabulary with good grasp of grammar type of fluency? Both are distinct meanings of the word in linguistic circles. The first would seem to fit the signs for smooth/awkward, as posted above. The second would fit with the sign for skill, also posted above.

 

[Anij]

Around here (language weirdness center of the ASL universe, Wisconsin) most of the time this is how I see the sign "perfect"...with an F handshape.

We use the "F" handshape here for PERFECT as well.


Lily7
One thing that's really important to remember, especially for those just starting ASL, is that "random initialization" isn't a good idea, especially if you aren't already fluent in the language and able to understand how to correctly manipulate signs to carry different meanings.

More importantly, just because 2 or more signs are almost identical aside from using different handshapes (letters for example), doesn't mean that it is at all related in meaning.

For example - use the general movement used for "PERFECT" but replace the "F" handshapes with "1", "C", "D", "L", "V" and with some minor additional variations* these are 6 totally unrelated signs (one of which will make you blush if you use it without knowing)

It would be very easy for a student to think these would all be the same topical group, or related someway (well... umm "D" and "V" might be lol) but in reality they aren't at all.

*
For us ASLers ... I realize with these examples there are some subtle angle changes, single tap contact vs double tap - so they aren't "identical" just similar. For a beginning student however, all 6 look almost identical because the students are learning how to reading subtle movement etc shifts in signs - much the way a pre-reader/early reader will have more trouble recognizing similar shape letters like "f/t", "g/j", "d/b", "D/B", i/l etc versus letters that look totally different like "a/h", "w/k", "s/x" etc.

 

[Reba]

We use the "F" handshape here for PERFECT as well.

I use that also but the movement isn't the same as the traditional PERFECT/EXACT sign which uses the modified X hands. Is that also what you use?

I tried to find a video example of how I do the F hand PERFECT on aslpro, signingsavvy, and lifeprint but none of them had it. Maybe it's not as universal as I thought. It's also the way hearing people indicate that's something's "just right," sometimes with one hand. It might not be a true ASL sign but it is in use.

One thing that's really important to remember, especially for those just starting ASL, is that "random initialization" isn't a good idea, especially if you aren't already fluent in the language and able to understand how to correctly manipulate signs to carry different meanings.

True dat! Can be hazardous.

...For example - use the general movement used for "PERFECT" but replace the "F" handshapes with "1", "C", "D", "L", "V" and with some minor additional variations* these are 6 totally unrelated signs (one of which will make you blush if you use it without knowing)

It would be very easy for a student to think these would all be the same topical group, or related someway (well... umm "D" and "V" might be lol) but in reality they aren't at all....

I must be missing something here. Which hand movements are you using in these examples?

 

[Anij]

I must be missing something here. Which hand movements are you using in these examples?

I'm wondering if it's a regional thing ...

For the "PERFECT", meaning similar to "exactly", or "precisely right": I know versions that are similar, but different.

One, like at ASLPro starts with a circular movement, then contact.

The other, eliminates the initial circular movement, and has the "f" handshapes come together (similar to "MEET"), with the contact point being the thumb&indexes of both hands.


Using the second version, the general movement used (at least where I live) would be similar, but not identical to what's used for "LICENSE", "CERTIFICATE", "MEET", "DATE", "EQUAL" meaning fair (bent "B" version) etc. (the "V", single or double tap version would get a young person in trouble at school, or with their mommy)

As I mentioned - I'm totally aware that the movements for each of these are not identical, but I thought they'd be similar enough for a beginning ASL student to explain the pitfalls of deciding to initialize a sign, hoping the different letter will prompt the observer to think "a word like ____ but starts with D instead"


Did that help, or just make things more confusing lol.

 

[Grayma]

ASL Music Video: All I Want by Damon Timm - YouTube

Would somebody help me with the sign at 1:13- she has a one hand to her chest, and the other hand is a sort of flat claw, going off to the side.

I also could use help with the sign used about 1.22 here- left hand is an s shape, and dominant hand is approximately like it would be to sign touch or feel. If her hand was flat, that would be touch, right?

I love this video, it seems very clever to me. As I understand it- she starts using SEE and is almost obliterated by the words. Then she switches to ASL, and changes the lyrics, asking to be accepted, really accepted for who she is, deaf and equal. At least, I think that's the gist of it.

 

[Journey]

I'm going to take a shot at this Grayma but no guarantees I am right, others who are more ASL fluent will jump in here soon I'm sure .

1:13 - the one hand on her chest is indicating that she, alone, is deaf while there are many other hearing people (the 'clawed' hand is a "classifier" indicating many people or things).
1:22 - she's been there time and time again or time and time again she has wondered.

?

 

[Reba]

I'm wondering if it's a regional thing ...

The PERFECT that I use is both F-hands, fingertips up, palm orientation forward, dominant hand slightly higher, with one short, sharp movement straight forward. I can't find a video clip for it, so it might not be widespread.

The PERFECT shown on aslpro and signingsavvy is also used here.

The EXACT shown on signingsavvy is the same that we use for "exact."

For the "PERFECT", meaning similar to "exactly", or "precisely right": I know versions that are similar, but different.

One, like at ASLPro starts with a circular movement, then contact.

The other, eliminates the initial circular movement, and has the "f" handshapes come together (similar to "MEET"), with the contact point being the thumb&indexes of both hands.

I've seen those.

Using the second version, the general movement used (at least where I live) would be similar, but not identical to what's used for "LICENSE", "CERTIFICATE", "MEET", "DATE", "EQUAL" meaning fair (bent "B" version) etc. (the "V", single or double tap version would get a young person in trouble at school, or with their mommy)

The versions of EXACT/PERFECT that are used here are all vertical movements; the examples you give in the above paragraph (LICENSE, CERTIFICATE, etc.) are all horizontal movements, so that's what threw me.

Did that help, or just make things more confusing lol.

 

[Reba]

ASL Music Video: All I Want by Damon Timm - YouTube

Would somebody help me with the sign at 1:13- she has a one hand to her chest, and the other hand is a sort of flat claw, going off to the side.

I also could use help with the sign used about 1.22 here- left hand is an s shape, and dominant hand is approximately like it would be to sign touch or feel. If her hand was flat, that would be touch, right?

I love this video, it seems very clever to me. As I understand it- she starts using SEE and is almost obliterated by the words. Then she switches to ASL, and changes the lyrics, asking to be accepted, really accepted for who she is, deaf and equal. At least, I think that's the gist of it.

I keep trying to play the youtube but it stops at :20 and skips to the end!

Maybe it's the solar flares today. (Our power/internet were down for a couple hours.) I'll try again later.

 

[Reba]

I got to see the video up to just past 1:00, which is all the SEE stuff (wow, she even uses the "-ing"). Maybe it's just slow buffering. I should get to see the whole thing soon.

 

[Journey]

I got to see the video up to just past 1:00, which is all the SEE stuff (wow, she even uses the "-ing"). Maybe it's just slow buffering. I should get to see the whole thing soon.

<tells Reba's computer to hurry up and buffer the video so we can have an answer>

 

[Reba]

ASL Music Video: All I Want by Damon Timm - YouTube

Would somebody help me with the sign at 1:13- she has a one hand to her chest, and the other hand is a sort of flat claw, going off to the side.

I also could use help with the sign used about 1.22 here- left hand is an s shape, and dominant hand is approximately like it would be to sign touch or feel. If her hand was flat, that would be touch, right?

I love this video, it seems very clever to me. As I understand it- she starts using SEE and is almost obliterated by the words. Then she switches to ASL, and changes the lyrics, asking to be accepted, really accepted for who she is, deaf and equal. At least, I think that's the gist of it.

I switched computers, so I could finally watch the video without interruption.

I get immersed in watching the video and forget to watch the timer but I think I matched up the signing with what you're asking.

1:13 Journey was right that she was using classifiers to indicate that she as a Deaf person (the 1-hand close to the chest) was isolated from the hearing crowd (the "claw" hand classifier, held out away from her).

1:22 TOUCH can be done on the back of a flat hand, bent hand, or fist. It can mean to actually touch an object, or it can idiomatically mean to have been to a location; to have "touched" Italy, for example.

The TOUCH shape is also the root shape for OBSESS, or to-dwell-on, or MEDITATE, when combined with THINK, and moved in a circular motion, indicating it happens continually. THINK+TOUCH, circular motion = to dwell on something.

The signing of the two Y-hands in circular motions towards each other indicate the time-and-time-again or repeatedly that Journey mentioned.

Do these "hints" help?


I must say, in the SEE portion, I've never seen anyone in real life sign so "English," even in a classroom. That's the most initializing I've seen in a while.

It made for a very strong contrast with the ASL part.

Thanks for sharing it.

 

[Grayma]

I switched computers, so I could finally watch the video without interruption.

....

Do these "hints" help?


I must say, in the SEE portion, I've never seen anyone in real life sign so "English," even in a classroom. That's the most initializing I've seen in a while.

It made for a very strong contrast with the ASL part.

Thanks for sharing it.

Yes, the hints help. I find if I watch the same video over and over again, I pick up a little more each time.

Then, when I start to feel cocky about it, I watch a brand new video and remind myself I don't know anything at all.

Oh, yes, so much, you and Journey, for helping me out with this one.

 

[Journey]

Thanks Reba <and Reba's other computer>

Grayma, I know how you feel. For me, ASL is one of those things that makes me feel like the more I learn the less I really know!

 

[Reba]

You guys are so blessed to have all these resources to help you learn ASL. I feel like I was learning during the Stone Age.

"Back in my day" the most technology available for learning ASL was books and VHS tapes. That was about it. And there weren't that many of those either. Classes and workshops were harder to find, and weren't consistent in quality.

Now, there's the internet with forums, like AllDeaf, online video dictionary sites like aslpro, signingsavvy, lifeprint, and handspeak, and examples of real life signing on vlogs, and youtube. You can buy, check out, or borrow DVD's, and you can chat with deaf friends via videocameras. It's great!

There are so many youtube ASL videos that I can't keep up with them. That's a good problem to have.

 

[Reba]

Thanks Reba <and Reba's other computer>

I'm beginning to think the problem is my wireless connection. It seems to be bogging down. I was on my MacBook Pro when I was having the connection problems. MacBooks shouldn't be sluggish, so it might be the wireless signal. When I went upstairs to our Windows PC, which is a wired connection to the router, I had no problem with youtube.

But that's a problem for another thread.

 

[Journey]

I'm beginning to think the problem is my wireless connection. It seems to be bogging down. I was on my MacBook Pro when I was having the connection problems. MacBooks shouldn't be sluggish, so it might be the wireless signal. When I went upstairs to our Windows PC, which is a wired connection to the router, I had no problem with youtube.

But that's a problem for another thread.

I had the same problem with the 3 wireless pcs here (plus random disconnects). I replaced the router and they are all running great again .

And you are so right about the great number of resources now available. I supplemented my classes with Martin Sternbergs ASL dictionary on CD - not nearly as user friendly as the online dictionaries available now (and a whole lot more costly too!).

 

[Skittles3502]

can u pm on how to sign "hookah"? or do you just finger spell it?

 

[Reba]

can u pm on how to sign "hookah"? or do you just finger spell it?

Context please. (Yes, I know what it is but context is still helpful.)

I wouldn't spell it without a description, probably incorporating classifiers.

Why use pm?

 

[Jiro]

Context please. (Yes, I know what it is but context is still helpful.)

I wouldn't spell it without a description, probably incorporating classifiers.

Why use pm?

must be that she's using illegal substance with hookah

 

[Reba]

must be that she's using illegal substance with hookah