How do you feel about the draft?

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^Angel^ said:
Wow, I thought that was unfair......

I believe that anyone has the right to serve in the military no matter what kind of disablity they have.....
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This article might encourage you. It is about a deaf anthropologist, Dr. C. E. Moore, who searches for the remains of MIAs in Vietnam and Cambodia.
http://www.charleston.net/cgi-bin/printme.pl

grrr...I checked the link and it doesn't work.
I hate to post a long story, so here are excerpts. Maybe you can find out more about Dr. Moore on a web search.


'Hoss' scours Asia sites for MIA remains

C. Elliott Moore often last hope for families seeking fate of loved ones lost in Vietnam
Associated Press

KHONG TROI MOUNTAIN, VIETNAM--For the past 12 years, C. Elliott Moore II has camped in mosquito-, leech- and snake-infested sites across Southeast Asia, searching for a sliver of bone, a tooth, a dog tag -- anything left of U.S. soldiers still missing nearly 30 years after the Vietnam War.
A forensic anthropologist with the military's Joint POW/MIA Accounting Command, Moore decides where to dig and for how long in conditions plagued by erosion, scavenging and even bone-eating acidic soil. . .

"Vietnam was the war of my generation. So many paid the ultimate sacrifice to come over here and wage war for American policy of that time and, of course, it wasn't a very happy ending," says Moore, 53. . .
"This is just one way I can pay my dues."

With a draft number high, Moore volunteered to fight in Vietnam in 1968. But he was turned down when doctors realized he had only 10 percent of his hearing -- his deafness the result of experimental antibiotics used to treat pneumonia as a baby.

The son of a doctor and a nurse, Moore yearned to do medical work. But he was rejected by medical schools, and forensic anthropology became the answer.

In 1992, after earning his doctorate, Moore joined the Hawaii-based team, which sends men and women from the Army, Navy, Air Force and Marines in search of remains from as far back as World War II. Anything recovered is sent to Oahu where experts, including Moore, work to match DNA to lost soldiers.

..."They always give the tough sites to Hoss," said Army Capt. Octave "Mac" MacDonald, the recovery team's leader from Baton Rouge, La., referring to Moore by his nickname. "I think that's pretty much because he's the best."

At 6-foot-4 and 270 pounds, Moore, of Stilwell, Kan., is a source of curiosity.
With his can of Copenhagen snuff, Cambodian scarf and wide-brimmed straw hat, he has been described as a cross between Indiana Jones and the Marlboro Man. . .

Still, he admits the months away from his wife, Ginny, their three children and six grandchildren aren't easy -- especially since he's lucky to get home twice a year.

"It does get lonely, but then you've got to improvise, adapt and overcome," he says. "I never went to a deaf school. I went to public schools all my life -- it wasn't easy."

His experience, sense of humor and tough-as-nails attitude have created easy bonds with team members who are often less than half his age. They quickly learn the only way to communicate with Moore is to talk while looking him in the eye -- his hearing aid is useless in the jungle's soupy humidity.

http://charleston.net/stories/062504/wor_25mia.shtml
 
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Yeah, I understand and it sure makes alot of sense now....Thank you for the information!! :thumb:
 
I personally think, it should be a person's choice to fight or something. I dunno, that's just my opinion. If they try to draft someone who doesn't want to fight, they won't give their all and it'd be for nothing.
 
well mm

whodatshroom said:
I personally think, it should be a person's choice to fight or something. I dunno, that's just my opinion. If they try to draft someone who doesn't want to fight, they won't give their all and it'd be for nothing.
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thats true in saying also i feel that we waste our usa money spending over seas to them as to help them, troops etc...and wonder will all the money ever return to us like will they ever pay us back?
 
Kerry Warns Draft Possible if Bush Wins

WASHINGTON - John Kerry (news - web sites) said Friday there is a "great potential" for a new military draft to replace overextended U.S. troops in Iraq (news - web sites) if President Bush (news - web sites) wins a second term, despite Bush's repeated pledges to maintain the all-volunteer service. Republicans rejected the suggestion as "fear mongering."


Bush and his Democratic challenger also sparred over jobs and other domestic issues as they campaigned through battleground states in the Midwest.


At a rally in Milwaukee, Kerry said Bush was "out of ideas, out of touch and unwilling to change" and accused him of mishandling the economy. Bush, campaigning in Cedar Rapids, Iowa, called his rival an unrepentant liberal seeking to hide his record.


Kerry raised the draft issue in an interview in The Des Moines Register published Friday.


"With George Bush (news - web sites), the plan for Iraq is more of the same and the great potential of a draft. Because if we go it alone, I don't know how you do it with the current overextension" of the military, Kerry said.


Bush campaign spokesman Steve Schmidt dismissed Kerry's comments as "fear mongering" and suggested the Massachusetts senator was spreading "false Internet rumors."


Kerry has suggested that Bush's heavy use of National Guard and Reserve troops has created a "backdoor draft." But his latest comments went further.


Bush did not directly respond, but he said in Cedar Rapids that he was "modernizing and transforming our United States military to keep the all-volunteer army an all-volunteer army."


In the second presidential debate, Bush said, "We're not going to have a draft, period." Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld has made similar statements.


The latest dispute over the draft came as a survey indicated that military families trust Bush over Kerry as commander in chief by 69 percent to 21 percent. Some 43 percent of the military sample said they were Republicans, 19 percent said they were Democrats and 27 percent independents.


The margin for Bush was smaller, 50-41, among all Americans questioned by the National Annenberg Election Survey.


Kerry focused on the economy as he began a bus tour of Wisconsin, telling a Milwaukee audience that Bush was "out of touch with the average American family" and that his policies on jobs and taxes favor the wealthiest Americans and special interests.


After leaving Iowa, Bush too went to Wisconsin, speaking at a rally in Oshkosh.


Iowa and Wisconsin are among a dozen or so states that both sides deem still in play. Others are Florida, Ohio, New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Pennsylvania, New Hampshire, Minnesota, Maine and Michigan.


Both campaigns are polling in those and other states to detect any shift in the post-debate landscape — any opportunity to add or subtract from the battleground. Intrigued by public surveys showing Arkansas and Arizona close, Kerry's pollsters are calling voters in those two GOP-leaning states to see if they merit attention in the homestretch.


Bush has virtually stopped advertising in Washington state and advisers privately concede that Oregon has moved comfortably to Kerry's side of the ledger. The Republican National Committee (news - web sites) was considering whether to begin advertising in New York City, one of the nation's most expensive media markets, to reach voters in surprisingly close New Jersey, a Democratic bastion.


Bush's advisers say GOP polling since the debate has shown him gaining ground in key states. Kerry's advisers say their surveys have shown no change, though polls suggest that voters believe he won the three debates.





Meanwhile, Kerry defended his reference to the sexual orientation of Mary Cheney during Wednesday's presidential debate. "It was meant as a very constructive comment, in a positive way," he told CNN.

Both Vice President Dick Cheney (news - web sites) and his wife Lynne have rebuked Kerry for referring to their openly gay daughter, and White House spokesman Scott McClellan said Friday the president also "does not believe it was appropriate."

Asked how his comment was constructive, Kerry told CNN, "It's respectful of who she is. And they've embraced her and they love her. I have great respect for them for that. And it seems to me that was the point I was trying to make."

In Milwaukee, Kerry said that Bush "either just doesn't understand...or just doesn't care" about the job losses during his term. Some 821,000 non-farm jobs have disappeared since Bush took office in January 2001, making him the first president since Herbert Hoover to see a net loss of jobs.

"The bottom line is this: This economy has a bad case of the flu and we need a new medicine," Kerry said.

Bush also focused on domestic issues in Iowa, claiming his tax-cuts were fueling a strong recovery and accusing Kerry of favoring "more centralized control and more government...There's a word for that. It's called liberalism."

Polls show Bush and Kerry in close races in both Iowa and Wisconsin, two states that Democrat Al Gore (news - web sites) won narrowly four years ago.

Bush and Kerry will launch fresh attacks in coming days. Bush will mock Kerry on his approach to terrorism, particularly his statement that he wants to reduce terrorism to a "nuisance," said Bush campaign communications director Nicolle Devenish. On Thursday, Bush will attack Kerry's health care plans, and throughout his travels, Bush will hammer Kerry's economic agenda, she said.

Kerry will deliver speeches during the next week as his "closing argument" for the campaign. Topics will include Bush's "wrong choices" on the economy, the war on terror and health care, Kerry adviser Mike McCurry said. "You look at President Bush and you see nothing but wrong choices and mistakes that he refuses to acknowledge," McCurry told reporters. "You have to start wondering whether or not there's risk that he will repeat those mistakes over the next four years."

___

Associated Press writers Scott Lindlaw and Nedra Pickler contributed to this report from Iowa and Wisconsin.

___

On the Net:

Kerry campaign: http://www.johnkerry.com

Bush campaign: http://www.georgewbush.com
 
Draft Debate

The draft debate heats up. Is it a possibility or just a scare tactic being used this election year? The issue has the potential to bring many young people to the polls and change the way millions of parents vote. With the messy situation in Iraq, rumors of a reinstated draft are out there. Where do the candidates stand on this? 7's Political Editor Andy Hiller takes a look…..

Among the casualties of the war in Iraq is the "all volunteer" U.S. Army. You can erase the "all volunteer," since thousands of soldiers have been extended - ordered to serve involuntarily - just as if they were drafted:

John Kerry wants to make it a campaign issue:

John Kerry, (D) Presidential Nominee
"We will end the backdoor draft of National Guard and reservists."

The president denies the "D" word.


President George Bush
"No, we don't need a draft. What we need to do--don't worry about it."

But Americans are apparently worried enough to make the Selective Service System declare "there is no need for a draft" on its web page. And two bills in Congress would bring back the draft--for men and women ages 18 to 26.

The draft is just one more link between Iraq and Vietnam.

At many anti-Vietnam war protests, draft cards were burned -- forcing Washington to create draft lotteries that randomly ranked birthdays to the order of annual call-ups:

Then, as now, there were concerns that military service wasn't equal for all Americans...since college students weren't drafted.

Sen. Edward Kennedy, (D) Massachusetts
"A boy that graduates from high school has a 60% chance of serving in the armed forces of our country...a boy that graduates from college only has 40%."

But 100% of the college students in the ROTC program at M.I.T. will serve because they want to--and their commander hopes the draft that died in 1973 is not revived.

Lt. Col. Brian Baker, U.S. Army
"There's nothing better than a professional all volunteer force…I don't see the requirement for a draft and understand the services aren't interested in one."

And neither are students we talked to at Boston University.

Student
"I have my brother and I have friends that are under the age of 26 and I don't think they should have to go to war if they don't choose to at this point."

Student
"What would I do? Personally? I would probably escape to Canada."

You don't have to be a cabinet secretary to wonder where all the troops America may need would come from.

And if that ever results in a serious move to bring back the draft, the political hurricane that would follow will make Charlie and Ivan look like gentle rain.
 
Sabrina said:
Among the casualties of the war in Iraq is the "all volunteer" U.S. Army. You can erase the "all volunteer," since thousands of soldiers have been extended - ordered to serve involuntarily - just as if they were drafted...
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They are not serving "involuntarily". Every Reservist knows what he or she is getting into when they sign up. Some, however, just put recall into the back of their mind and think, "Oh, it won't happen to me." It is called "denial". Some have a gambler's attitude and play the odds that they will fulfill their Reserve obligation without being called up. They can't expect to get the benefits without earning them thru their duties and sacrifices.

I served 17 of my total 24 years in the military with the Reserves. Each year we went thru mobilization exercises. During those exercises, we attended lectures reemphasizing our call up obligations. We also went thru the processes of updating wills and powers of attorney, making sure we had good long-term childcare arrangements, etc. Legal officers explained the legal requirements and the processes to use if you requested excuse from recall.

No one likes extended tours in combat zones, away from home. But it is a fact of life for military service, and that includes Reservists.
 
Extended tours are but a form of a "back-door" draft.
Kerry said that he will continue the war in Iraq, and anyone who does not believe there will be a full-blown national draft in the near future is just plain naive.
 
Beowulf said:
anyone who does not believe there will be a full-blown national draft in the near future is just plain naive.
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Indeed, indeed.


Here's news:
Army NG Short On Recruits

DAYTON, Ohio - Free hunting and fishing licenses. More chances to get signing bonuses. Pink T-shirts for women.

The Army National Guard, which has fallen short of recruiting goals during the prolonged fighting in Iraq, is trying new marketing beyond the traditional enticement of college tuition aid.

"There are fewer people who are voluntarily expressing an interest - calling or returning postcards," said Lt. Col. Dan Kenkel, spokesman for the Guard in Nebraska.

Nationally, the Army Guard reached 88 percent of its goal of 56,000 recruits by the end of September, signing up 49,210.

"Recruiting is tougher than it's been in awhile," said James Sims, spokesman for the Ohio Guard, which is about 500 off its target of 2,100 recruits.

More ... http://www.military.com/NewsContent/0,13319,FL_goals_110304,00.html

And...

National Guard recruit goals fall short

By JAMES HANNAH
ASSOCIATED PRESS WRITER

DAYTON, Ohio -- Free hunting and fishing licenses. More chances to get signing bonuses. Pink T-shirts for women.

The Army National Guard, which has fallen short of recruiting goals during the prolonged fighting in Iraq, is trying new marketing beyond the traditional enticement of college tuition aid.

"There are fewer people who are voluntarily expressing an interest - calling or returning postcards," said Lt. Col. Dan Kenkel, spokesman for the Guard in Nebraska.

Nationally, the Army Guard reached 88 percent of its goal of 56,000 recruits by the end of September, signing up 49,210.

"Recruiting is tougher than it's been in awhile," said James Sims, spokesman for the Ohio Guard, which is about 500 off its target of 2,100 recruits.

More ... http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/natio...y.asp?category=1152&slug=Recruiting Guardsmen
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Since republicans or whoever want Bush to be their president so why not they go and apply to be in army to fight for Bush's so-called 'holy' crusade? They voted for Bush so therefore they must join in the army and fight if army need more soldiers or are they chickenhawks as usual? You decide but in my humble opinion, republicans or whoever vote for that incompetent must join in the army, they deserve it, not democrats or whoever who didn't vote for Bush.

regards,
Magatsu
 
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go for the draft, people do take freedom for granted.
 
Guys.. While I don't want any kind of draft happening..

Here's something for you guys to think about.. Suppose you do get drafted to join the military.. It means leaving your family, friends, lives, jobs, lovers, kids, ect.. behind to go to another state for up to 6 months of training.. perhaps a year of training.. You go wherever they tell you to go even if it's Iraq, Afganstian, Kuwait, Korea.. whatever.
You have NO freedom, no free speech.. You are basically in the military for 4 to 8 years, depending on which job you choose. You have to stay in the military. It's not like a normal job where you can quit just because you don't like your job. You're stuck in there.

How do I know? Proud Girlfriend of a Hearing soilder currently in the Army.
 
I didn't see this 2 years old thread until today. :eek3:

kuifje75 said:
You all misread me:

I said, give the person a choice to serve in the army or serve for the community by doing community services. If I was "drafted," I would take the latter, of course. This is done in Germany, because of the Nazi times, men were forced to be in the Army and do awful things. Now in present-day Germany, men are given choices to serve in the Army, or call themselves conscientious objectors and serve in the community instead. There are some men who would be more than willing to serve their countries, and others who would rather serve more humane causes.
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Yes, that's right. It's Germans choice to serve in the army or serve for civil duty. They are free to have their choice which is good. I don't beleive to force anyone to join draft if they don't want.
 
My brother David will be 18 years old.. hope he isn't drafted! :Ohno: Sigh.. :( But I think he wants to be in the Marines because my dad did serve in the Marines and then the U.S. Army.
 
I hope not. My father was drafted then was in military only for three months then got excuse to leave. Years ago my four brothers were drafted but only one (CM Punk's father) went to South Korea back in 60's. Ofc my friends were drafted and were in military back then. Being drafts is not funny when someone don't want to join. It's not easy.
 
FelixKat930 said:
My brother David will be 18 years old.. hope he isn't drafted! :Ohno: Sigh.. :( But I think he wants to be in the Marines because my dad did serve in the Marines and then the U.S. Army.
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The U.S. Marines is the best if your brother wants the best of the best. Superb rifle marksmanship traning and extremely violent savage hand to hand combat training.
 
But the Marines are the first to attack the enemy and have the highest risk of death. The Army is the second group to have highest risk if fighting on the ground. Look at Iraq war with our marines and army soldiers dying the most compared to the Navy and Air Force. If I were to choose which branch, I would pick Air Force cuz Im a girl and dont want to deal with horny sailors. :D Also to avoid high risk jobs such as infantry soldier or driving supplies thru dangerous territory.

I think its best to send your kids to air force or navy if you want them to live thru the war. But naturally, it will be up to the kids.
 
Banjo said:
Personally, I don't believe in drafting people, especially the ones that are against the war they are being drafted for.

People should not be forced to die for their country. A government is a government, there's nothing to take pride in it. It is their job to take care of the Americans because they pay them to through taxes. The country is not a human being, it is a landmass, nothing more. Only it's governed by people.

Plus, if this draft is for real, you can expect a lot of young Americans to dodge the draft by escaping to Canada. This happened in the 60s, during the Vietnam war. I wouldn't be surprised if it happen once again. It is up to the people to make the decision to join the army or not, I'm not going to force the others to. I think it would be crazy if this is a way of teaching people how to grow up, because there's a chance that some of them may die.

World War II was a different matter, people were really needed.

America is supposed to be the land of freedom, but if people are being forced to join the army, then it is not freedom. Freedom did have a price tag, and it was paid off in the past, but must they pay more?

But only the problem is, this time... it's for Iraq!

No, not for this war. But for a future war, who knows?

Anyway, I do have my doubts that the draft may happen. I personally think it would kill the Bush admin if they did this.
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HOW MANY POLITICIANS KIDS ARE IN THE ARMY NOW..
DONT MEAN "TRAINING"
ACTIVE..IN AFGHANISTAN..IRAQ..POSS IRAN..
WHY DIE FOR OIL AND BIG MONEY.
.WAR INCREASES TERRORISM INCREASES WAR INCREASES:sadwave:
 
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