How Can You Love God and Hate Someone ?

[800poundgorilla]

Thanks

I do see everyday things such as sunlight our immune system, the eyes, or whatever, as facts, the things you see me post are just peices of the truth.

What I notice about these sites is the same you see everywhere, people are not interested in truth, they just mostly want justification of what they are already doing or of what they already believe. You read what I said and knew much of it was true, they read it and ignore it, like putting their head in the sand is going to help them.

If they truly believe there is a God, those things will make them think not close their eyes and hide in a dark closet.

 

[VamPyroX]

Maybe, Jehovah's Witnesses have done enough damage to make people hate them. Also, hating them doesn't exactly mean hating the religion... but the things they do.

I've had people say, "I hate blacks." No, it wasn't because they're racists... but the fact that a lot of blacks act in a unique way (ghetto attitude) that it turns off many people and makes them uncomfortable. Saying, "I hate blacks." for that reason is a common response.

I don't hate the JW religion, but I do hate the way they do things to me. They solicit in the dorms here at RIT. There was actually a older woman who brought some kids with her and used them at her advantage by having them go door to door and hand out papers while acting innocent.

I don't hate Mormons, but i do hate the way they go door-to-door while dressed up in dark blue khakis, white dress shirts, a tie, and a back pack. Of course, every time I see those guys... I think about the movie Orgazmo.

 

[800poundgorilla]

Bible history

If someone believes and reads the Bible, one thing they see over and over, those guys in the Bible were always hated, and I mean really hated, the Jews, woe...no one liked them for more than a few years, and the prophet's man they killed them, and real Christians...thrown. men, women and children to lions and wild dogs.
If the Witnesses do represent God, he does not care if we like them or not, he wants them to be likeable, but again he does not care how we feel about them.
What if you were told that a distruction was soon to hit your area, how far would you go to warn everyone? That is how they feel, when it is all said and done, they no doubt say we tried our best.

 

[Reba]

A Witness was going door to door and a man answered the door he seemed to be very, very angry, the Witness started talking to him about how little peace there is in the world, and man started to calm down, when he was offered the reading material the man took it, he also said it was ok to come back. The next week the Witness did come back and the man invited him him, he told the Witness that before they started their discussion he needed to thank him for saving his wife's life, the Witness said that he did not recall meeting his wife and the man said I know, but last week when you came I was about to kill her, I had the hammer on my gun pulled back and then you came to the door.

Is that a true story? You don't give any reference or names or dates.

That's interesting because our Pastor (independent Baptist) has told us about a true event that happened when he and his wife were ringing doorbells or knocking on doors several years ago. His story was in the first person, of course, and he included details. On a Monday night, he and his wife rang the bell and knocked at the door several times. Normally, they just leave a tract if no one answers. After several minutes of ringing the bell and knocking, they stuck a tract in the door jam, and then left.

The following Sunday, after the morning service, a woman approached the Pastor. She thanked him so much for saving her life. The Pastor told, he was sorry but he didn't remember meeting her before. Then, the woman explained her story. She said, "Do you remember last Monday you were in such-and-such a neighborhood, knocking on doors? Well, you knocked at my door but I didn't answer, so you left a tract. What you didn't know was, that was the same day that my husband left me after many years of marriage. I was very depressed and upset. I wanted to kill myself. I started to get things set up to hang myself. But I heard someone at my door. I stopped and listened, and thought I should wait until the person left. The bell rang, someone knocked, again and again. Finally, I was too curious, so I went to the door. No one was there, but I found this little booklet [tract]. The title was 'Someone Cares'. I was curious, so I read it. It was the beautiful story of Jesus and His salvation. That night I accepted Jesus into my heart, and He gave me perfect peace. I couldn't kill myself after that. I saw your church address on the back of the paper, so I decided to come here today to thank you, and to find out more about Jesus."

(I've condensed the story a bit for this post; the Pastor told more details, and told more about the lady joining the church, and serving the Lord and her community.)

Now while we so called Christians are home putting up stupid, nasty, and childish signs on our door's, not to mention sitting on our butts doing nothing, this so called cult is out saving lives.

I don't understand what you mean about "stupid, nasty, and childish signs on our door's". Can you explain?

We have a brass plaque on our front door. It says:

Joshua 24:15
...as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.

The members of our church still make visits to people's homes, and reach out to the community in various ways, so I'm not sure what you mean about, "sitting on our butts doing nothing".

We do not need to fool ourselves into thinking we are alright just because we believe, the Bible says those doing God's will will be saved, not just those who believe.

God's will is for all to be saved.

John 3
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Becoming saved is doing God's will. Then, the saved person continues to do God's will out of love and obedience, NOT for salvation.

Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The works that follow salvation by faith are some of the evidence that salvation has taken place. Works follow faith.

The Demon's believe yet they are soon to be destroyed.

They believe (that is, they know in their minds) that Jesus is God and Savior. However, they don't trust in Jesus for salvation.

Satan and his demon angels know who Jesus is; but they don't trust Him for salvation. They long ago made their choice, and rebelled against Jesus for all eternity.

What are the "works" of the demons? They are evil works. Those are the evidences that they have no faith (trust) in Jesus.

The early Christians were called a cult by everyone...

And they suffered for it.

... and guess what, they went about "pushing" their beliefs on everyone, they did it because that is what Jesus told them to do!!!

What do you mean by "pushing"? The early Christians preached the Gospel in public areas, or shared the Good News with family and friends. They didn't use force or dishonest ways to trick anyone into becoming Christians. The apostles preached boldly but most of the common Christians quietly shared the Gospel with others in a personal way. Their testimonies became public when they were thrown into the Coliseum to be tortured and killed.

When Christians go door to door as they should, they are doing two things, looking for the HONEST HEARTED...

I've never heard of that. When we knock on a door we are looking for people who need the Lord. Maybe they are "honest hearted", maybe not. Only God knows the heart.

... but their presence is also a warning, reconcile with God, or you may be in line for destruction.

The Holy Spirit will convict people of their needs. Some people need to be saved. Some people who are already saved need to repent and live right. If an unsaved person refuses to be saved by Jesus, then that person will be headed for the destruction of Hell. If a saved person refuses to obey God for living right, then that person will suffer God's chastisement but will NOT be headed for the destruction of Hell.

Just clarifying.

When you speak against those who do what they are supposed to be doing, be assured of one thing, you are speaking against both God and Jesus!

If someone knocks at the door of a Christian, and that person brings a false doctrine or "another" Gospel, the Christian must send them away, and not bless them.

2 John 1
10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed: 11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

 

[800poundgorilla]

Lets make this simple

The story is true, yours also supports what I said about activity, however, it is a requirement for all to do this work. One preacher from one church cannot cover what needs to be covered. Interesting, when we see people in our neighborhood with Bible's under their arms, most think, oh God the Witnesses are here, lock the doors! They DO NOT say, oh man the Baptist's are back.
If you turn to 1st Cor. 13 you see an important message to Christians about love. It is one thing to say, I believe in Jesus, but truly loving people takes more than belief.
The religious organizations that say they represent Jesus yet support the wars and battles of men are NOT then, not now, not ever going to have his blessing. There is no where in the New Testament where Jesus gives anyone permission to kill anyone, you, I, anyone, who is a part of an organization that does so, share in ALL the blood that has been spilled in his name.
Note dear, some of my other posts, I have noticed that this so called cult has managed to stop killing one another, and they have a real peace that is recognized around the world.
As I have said before, the so called cult is showing the so called True believers up, and that with their so called fake Bible.

 

[800poundgorilla]

One more thing

So, if one of the religion's who support wars comes to my house, how should I treat them?, I know, I know, I most likely will never see them...but it they do...I will treat them as a Christian should, I will try to enlighten them. And I do want God's blessing upon them, hoping that he will draw them away from the fake wheat.

 

[Reba]

The story is true, yours also supports what I said about activity, however, it is a requirement for all to do this work. One preacher from one church cannot cover what needs to be covered.

At our church, all the members are expecting to be involved in witnessing. In fact, tonight is our Monday night churchwide visitation time.

Interesting, when we see people in our neighborhood with Bible's under their arms, most think, oh God the Witnesses are here, lock the doors! They DO NOT say, oh man the Baptist's are back.

I don't know what people think (I'm not clairvoyant) but I know from experience that some people don't want to open the door to anyone they see carrying a Bible. So?

There is no where in the New Testament where Jesus gives anyone permission to kill anyone...

There is no place in the Bible that makes a general prohibition of war or self defense. No one ever had "permission" to commit murder, neither in the Old or New Testaments.

...anyone, who is a part of an organization that does so, share in ALL the blood that has been spilled in his name.

Please be more specific. To which organization do you refer? Who has spilt blood in the name of Jesus?

I have noticed that this so called cult has managed to stop killing one another, and they have a real peace that is recognized around the world.

Are you saying that JWs have stopped killing other JWs? I never knew that they were doing that in the first place.

 

[Reba]

So, if one of the religion's who support wars comes to my house, how should I treat them?, I know, I know, I most likely will never see them...but it they do...I will treat them as a Christian should, I will try to enlighten them. And I do want God's blessing upon them, hoping that he will draw them away from the fake wheat.

You would bless their work? That is, you would ask God to give them success in their witnessing even though it opposed your beliefs?

 

[800poundgorilla]

99.99% of all so called Christian religions

At our church, all the members are expecting to be involved in witnessing. In fact, tonight is our Monday night churchwide visitation time.



I don't know what people think (I'm not clairvoyant) but I know from experience that some people don't want to open the door to anyone they see carrying a Bible. So?



There is no place in the Bible that makes a general prohibition of war or self defense. No one ever had "permission" to commit murder, neither in the Old or New Testaments.



Please be more specific. To which organization do you refer? Who has spilt blood in the name of Jesus?



Are you saying that JWs have stopped killing other JWs? I never knew that they were doing that in the first place.

You did not answer the question, where did Jesus give Christians the permission to kill anyone in the war's of the nations. He said you must love your enemy, and pray for them Very hard to do(or justify it with Jesus) if you are about to blow someone's brain out, or drop bombs on a city below, cut their throat, blast em. with a flame thrower or whatever.

If that sounds impractical for our world, so be it, but they should leave Jesus out of it. Oh by the way, the Bible never mentions abortion either, but we know how Jesus feels about it do we not? Or is that ok, because there is no direct mention?

Look, there is no escaping it, if your church is a part of the 99.99 who have partaken in the blood fests, that would include you, hey it used to include me!

What difference would it make if the Witnesses had killed one another in wars, if we use the criteria that the church uses, they don't have a problem either. The fact that you had not heard that they had killed one another is interesting, because it is the same with me, unless, someone missed that. If they had though, I am sure Jesus would be very upset at them also.

History says they have not killed each others children, nor have they killed anyone from any other race, religion or creed. I find that very interesting. I think their are a couple more, the Amish, and the Mennonites.
All the rest? They will kill you, me, and anyone else if asked, as I like to say, they will drop that cross and pick up an AK47 faster than a politician can make a promise.

So you really can take the Witnesses out of the equation, and just look at the history of the church for the last 1700 years or so, it has been one horrible atrocity after another. Now I am not saying that there have not been or that there are not now wonderful people perhaps like yourself still in those organizations, but they need to get out and very soon!

 

[SxyPorkie]

Of course... JWs are bothersome... they keep on bothering me for 4 yrs... wont stop... they dont respect me.. at first i was nice and said no thanks... then later on i kept slamming the door on them.. still come here... last week they came.. I blew up.. told them to stop harassing me and for them to LEAVE ME ALONE..... or will sue them for harassment.... i start using bat threatening them...

 

[Reba]

You did not answer the question, where did Jesus give Christians the permission to kill anyone in the war's of the nations.

Are you saying that if something isn't listed as "permission" by Jesus that means He doesn't actually allow it? Isn't that legalism?

Where does Jesus prohibit war and self-defense?

He said you must love your enemy and pray for them...

And Christians do that.

... Very hard to do...

No, it's not.

...(or justify it with Jesus)...

What do you mean?

if you are about to blow someone's brain out, or drop bombs on a city below, cut their throat, blast em. with a flame thrower or whatever.

No one enjoys war but sometimes it's necessary. Prayer is very important in considering involvement in war, and its conduct.

Of course, you are free to state your opinion, thanks to those who died in wars to make possible your freedom of speech.

If that sounds impractical for our world, so be it, but they should leave Jesus out of it.

I still don't understand what you mean by that. I thought you were the one who brought Jesus into the war discussion.

Oh by the way, the Bible never mentions abortion either, but we know how Jesus feels about it do we not? Or is that ok, because there is no direct mention?

The OT commandment not to murder still applies. Killing an innocent baby has always been wrong. I hope you aren't comparing innocent babies in the womb with armed combatants on the battlefield.

Look, there is no escaping it, if your church is a part of the 99.99 who have partaken in the blood fests, that would include you, hey it used to include me!

Please be specific. What "blood fests" would those be? How are churches partaking in them?

What difference would it make if the Witnesses had killed one another in wars...

It doesn't matter to me. You're the one that brought it up.

...The fact that you had not heard that they had killed one another is interesting, because it is the same with me, unless, someone missed that.

It was your statement. I don't know why you mentioned it.

History says they have not killed each others children, nor have they killed anyone from any other race, religion or creed.

Are you still talking about JW's? They are not a "race", so I'm not sure what you mean.

...All the rest? They will kill you, me, and anyone else if asked, as I like to say, they will drop that cross and pick up an AK47 faster than a politician can make a promise.

Who are "they"? You are so vague and general, I'm having a hard time following. Why would "they" kill "you, me, and anyone else"?

So you really can take the Witnesses out of the equation...

What "equation" is that?

... and just look at the history of the church for the last 1700 years or so...

"The" church is the body of Christ. The church is all born-again believers in Christ, since the time of Pentecost, until the rapture happens. So that is almost 2,000 years, so far.

Believers did belong, do belong, and will belong to local congregations all over the world, under various names.

Local church congregations have their own "histories" from whatever time they were established in their communities.

Are you referring to the entire body of Christ "church", or to individual local churches?

...it has been one horrible atrocity after another.

Please be specific.

... Now I am not saying that there have not been or that there are not now wonderful people perhaps like yourself still in those organizations, but they need to get out and very soon!

I'm not calling myself a "wonderful" person by any means.

To which "organizations" are you referring?

 

[800poundgorilla]

reply

Are you saying that if something isn't listed as "permission" by Jesus that means He doesn't actually allow it? Isn't that legalism? You answer that in your prayers.

Where does Jesus prohibit war and self-defense?You cannot Love and pray for your enemy and kill them at the same time, if you and others cannot see that, then you do not have to worry about convincing me, the Lord that you worship will settle up with you. I do find it hard to understand those who set aside the obvious, but Jesus said that is what people would do.



And Christians do that.




No, it's not.



What do you mean?



No one enjoys war but sometimes it's necessary. Prayer is very important in considering involvement in war, and its conduct.

Of course, you are free to state your opinion, thanks to those who died in wars to make possible your freedom of speech.



I still don't understand what you mean by that. I thought you were the one who brought Jesus into the war discussion.



The OT commandment not to murder still applies. Killing an innocent baby has always been wrong. I hope you aren't comparing innocent babies in the womb with armed combatants on the battlefield. Yes! No difference.



Please be specific. What "blood fests" would those be? How are churches partaking in them? Any war that they were involved in.Do a little research, and you will find out why billions hate so called Christians, not because they follow Christ, but because they and their loved ones have been the victims of those cross toten sword swinging zealots, from the crusades, to almost all modern wars. Again, hiding behind a flag may help you gain favor with men, but it will be and is worthless in the eyes of Jesus.

It doesn't matter to me. You're the one that brought it up.



It was your statement. I don't know why you mentioned it.



Are you still talking about JW's? They are not a "race", so I'm not sure what you mean.



Who are "they"? You are so vague and general, I'm having a hard time following. Why would "they" kill "you, me, and anyone else"? So called religions only need a flag and an order to go marching off to war.



What "equation" is that?



"The" church is the body of Christ. The church is all born-again believers in Christ, since the time of Pentecost, until the rapture happens. So that is almost 2,000 years, so far.

Believers did belong, do belong, and will belong to local congregations all over the world, under various names. Wrong

Local church congregations have their own "histories" from whatever time they were established in their communities.

Are you referring to the entire body of Christ "church", or to individual local churches? These, by their fruits show they are not a part of the body of Christ, and pinning a flag on it does not gain Jesus approval.



Please be specific.



I'm not calling myself a "wonderful" person by any means.

To which "organizations" are you referring?

All church's that support and send their members into them.

 

[800poundgorilla]

99.99% of all so called Christian religions

At our church, all the members are expecting to be involved in witnessing. In fact, tonight is our Monday night churchwide visitation time.



I don't know what people think (I'm not clairvoyant) but I know from experience that some people don't want to open the door to anyone they see carrying a Bible. So?



There is no place in the Bible that makes a general prohibition of war or self defense. No one ever had "permission" to commit murder, neither in the Old or New Testaments.



Please be more specific. To which organization do you refer? Who has spilt blood in the name of Jesus?



Are you saying that JWs have stopped killing other JWs? I never knew that they were doing that in the first place.

You did not answer the question, where did Jesus give Christians the permission to kill anyone in the war's of the nations. He said you must love your enemy, and pray for them. If that sounds impractical for our world, so be it, but they should leave Jesus out of it.

Look, there is no escaping it, if your church is a a part of the 99.99 who have partaken in the blood fests, that would include you, hey it used to include me!

What difference would it make if the Witnesses had killed one another in wars, if we use the criteria that the church uses, they don't have a problem either. If they had though, I am sure Jesus would be very upset at them also.
History says they have not killed each others children, nor have they killed anyone from any other race, religion or creed. I find that very interesting. I think their are a couple more, the Amish, and the Mennonites.
All the rest? They will kill you, me, and anyone else if asked, as I like to say, they will drop that cross and pick up an AK47 faster than a politician can make a promise.

So you really can take the Witnesses out of the equation, and just look at the history of the church for the last 1700 years or so, it has been one horrible atrocity after another. Now I am not saying that there have not been or that there are not now wonderful people perhaps like yourself still in those organizations, but they need to get out and very soon!

 

[800poundgorilla]

The truth will not be covered over!

There is a church in Milledgeville Georgia, that was used by the Union troops as a staple for the horse's, I am told they did that because the Church's in the south had supported the war against the North.

I wanted to add this question, what if the religious leaders in the South had said, "If you want to please Jesus, you CANNOT kill anyone, and you should be ashamed of yourselves for even thinking of killing your fellow countrymen"?! Would there be any war if they stood up and spoke those things?

Anyone know anymore about that story?

Unfortunate, people have been willing to follow human political saviors no matter what the cost to their religion or more importantly their relationship with the one they claim to believe in. Sadly also, the religious organizations did not speak up and say, NO, STOP, YOU CAN NOT DO THAT, when individual pastors or priests did speak up, they were quickly silenced, and I do not mean, with tape on their mouths.

I do believe however that many of those in the past, and many in the present believe that Jesus, or Allah, or whomever was or is with them.

Take the Lutherans, Catholics and other religions that supported Hitler, it is hard for me to believe that when they sent those families into the "showers", that they did not somehow believe Jesus was with them, they were Jews right? Did they not kill our beloved Christ?!

 

[Reba]

All church's that support and send their members into them.

Into what? Bloodfests?

I asked several specific questions. Is that your full answer?

 

[800poundgorilla]

Ok

Reba,
You said, it takes prayer before going into war, how much would you have prayed had you been asked as a Christian to support Hitler's death camps, or simply supporting him, as most patriotic Germans did? How much prayer before you joined in on the crusades, Spanish civil war, our civil war? Would prayer have made any of those things ok?

When Jesus said those who live by the sword, die by the sword, or when he said love and pray for your enemy, what does he mean?
I need to add this, you, myself, and millions of others have been told it was alright to join in fighting with whatever country we may be living in, they, the religious leaders are liars, and while they say they love their flocks, they are in fact hating them!

Their lies for money, influence, or just plain ignorance and wickedness, have resulted in the deaths of hundreds of millions in wars, but even worse, their lies are and will cause BILLIONS to lose everlasting life. They are sons of the father of the lie and will recieve the same fate!
Is that clear enough? We all can choose to be a victim or we can choose life. The choice is ours.

 

[Ephesians2_8]

I don't hate them, one of my best friend is JW. I feel her teaching is wrong doesn't mean I hate her. Christians stand up for God, and We are suppose to love our neighbor. If we didn't, we wouldn't spread the gospel the best way we know how. Of course we are suppose to be kind, helpful, and all for God's glory.

It's kinda like this (I am using an analogy, it may not be the best), If we were in a house and it caught a fire. I walked pass your room and saw you sleeping, I could either:

1. let you figure it out that the house is on fire
2. Wake you up and warn you the house is on fire

Which is love?

you may take my warning, or you could get mad at me for bothering you because you too dead asleep to take me serious. Another word, people misunderstood Christians. Christians' definition of Love is alot different than most people's definition of love. They want Christians to leave them alone and stop warning them. Anyway, I hope that will help you understand our viewpoint.

I know JW are doing the same thing, and they mean well but they don't understand that Jesus died for all sinners and that he is God's word in flesh. They think he is just a man who died for Adam's sins and Good work will save them.

 

[EagleCherokee63]

I am sorry, I mistyped in my sentence about the crown part. I put down the wrong word "throne" so it should be thorny crown instead. Hope that I made that clear.

Reason, I left JW because they have a wrong DOCTRINE!! I dreamt that I saw
Jesus blood on His cross and a thorny crown on His head to died for my sins
and that is how I got saved through Jesus Christ. I researched JW's doctrine
and KJV are in conflicts!!! THE REASON I hate JW's DOCTRINE due to my
abusive family, strict rules, and their legalism!! It not God's GRACE and
LOVE!!!

 

[Reba]

Reba,
You said, it takes prayer before going into war, how much would you have prayed had you been asked as a Christian to support Hitler's death camps, or simply supporting him, as most patriotic Germans did? How much prayer before you joined in on the crusades, Spanish civil war, our civil war? Would prayer have made any of those things ok?

Prayer doesn't make a bad causes become good causes. Prayer helps to discern the difference.

There were many Christians opposed to Hitler's death camps, and they lost their lives in that opposition. The Crusades were not supported by non-Catholic Christians.

Each person has to decide for himself whether or not a cause is just. Christians base their decisions on Biblical principles and prayer. There's no need to assume that every Christian jumps onto every political bandwagon that passes by.

I know that many JW's were sent to the Nazi death camps, along with the Jews and other groups. How were all the Jews and JW's liberated from those camps? By pacifists? No! By American and Allied soldiers fighting their way thru Europe. By American and Allied soldiers sacrificing their lives to save the lives of strangers, including JW's. Maybe you think America should have stayed out of that war, and then all the Jews and JW's could die in the camps?

 

[800poundgorilla]

They will beat their swords into plowshares

Isaiah 2:4, often quoted but few understand it. I know what you are saying, it makes it seem so hard, who would have stood up to Hitler, then, well he never would have been there without help from so called Christians.
Bottom line is, Jesus said his followers would be no part of the world John 17:14 and many others.
Reba, I want to commend you on something, at least you are trying to give it thought, so many do not. True Christians must learn to believe that whatever Jesus tells us, if we listen it will turn out well for us, and for those who listen to us. That means even the situations we have spoken of, we must truly believe that if we follow the admonition to love our neighbor, even when that seems imposible.
If we claim we love Jesus, it should tear us apart that people speak badly of him due to something we have done, or anything anyone has done in his name that brought shame and reproach on his name. My point, again, we are told at Matt. seven, and twenty four that many would say they speak and act for him.
We can tell by the fruits who they are.