House successfully vote to help raise taxes against poor and middle class

[jillio]

Nor does your degree(s), Jillio.

Ahh...but at least my degrees are in the field of science.

But my point is, you cannot use someone else's lack of a degree to invalidate their point, and validate your own, when you don't possess the necessary degree, either.

Now, back on topic. The title is extremely misleading, and nothing more than an attempt to misrepresent to further a personal political agenda.

 

[jillio]

I'm confused. Help me -

I said - There is no evidence to say that the CO2 is the main culprit of it
you said - There is no evidence to say that CO2 isn't the main culprit of it

correct?

Correct. Which means that until that proof is offered, one can offer an opinion either way based on what evidence there is. The lack of proof from either side is exactly why there is no current consensus within the scientific community.

 

[jillio]

yes it does. Perhaps it doesn't in your school. Geography is the "Study of the Earth" as specified by my program. It involves Natural Science and Diversity requirements.

With that in mind - I can understand and explain better intrinsically.. which is quite apparent based on your posts and my posts.

Again, I state, I doubt seriously that your comprehension or your ability to explain is superior to my own.

But that is exactly what was referred to in an earlier post regarding donning your hat of expertise on any given day.

How does one go about "explaining intrinsically"?

Something is quite apparent in the differences between my posts and your posts, but it isn't what you are assuming it to be.

Now, again, back on topic. Misleading title intended to promote a personal political agenda.

 

[kokonut]

Are you confused, Jillio? I said for dozens of time - there is no evidence to point that CO2 is the main culprit of the cause. So how in the world Al Gore is able to state that CO2 is the cause of it if scientific community has not been able to conclude on the main culprit?

In fact, some 31,478 American scientists, including 9,029 with PhDs disagree that global warming was human induced caused by an increased in CO2 concentration.
Global Warming Petition Project

The sea core data on oxygen-isotope also shed serious light over the last 600 million years that CO2 concentration fluctuated between 7000 ppm to 200 ppm, without human beings present! The is a natural phenomenom that has been going on for milllions of years. This includes ozone where scientists say that chlorine is the culprit that reduces ozone thinning saying that it was a man-made causation by the introduction of CFC. Yet, but people do not realize that Earth produces natural chlorine by the tons each year. Oh, say, like five million tons of this chemical are produced naturally every year. This amount dwarfs the 26 thousand tons produced annually by man. A two order of magnitude difference! Some scientists believe that this natural methyl chloride is an innate regulator of stratospheric ozone.
Chlorine Chemistry Division : Natural Chlorine? You Bet!

All the more reasons that politicians are jumping the gun way, way too early in this CO2 and Ozone thing. It is folly to think man has the capability to completely control and change the Earth's climate. Heck, we can't even stop a tornado!

 

[Jiro]

Again, I state, I doubt seriously that your comprehension or your ability to explain is superior to my own.

But that is exactly what was referred to in an earlier post regarding donning your hat of expertise on any given day.

How does one go about "explaining intrinsically"?

Something is quite apparent in the differences between my posts and your posts, but it isn't what you are assuming it to be.

Now, again, back on topic. Misleading title intended to promote a personal political agenda.

so you're telling me you know Earth science better than me?

in case you didn't notice - nowhere in your post have you explained about this scientifically. It's more of like distorting others as right-wing agenda or something.

 

[jillio]

In fact, some 31,478 American scientists, including 9,029 with PhDs disagree that global warming was human induced caused by an increased in CO2 concentration.
Global Warming Petition Project

The sea core data on oxygen-isotope also shed serious light over the last 600 million years that CO2 concentration fluctuated between 7000 ppm to 200 ppm, without human beings present! The is a natural phenomenom that has been going on for milllions of years. This includes ozone where scientists say that chlorine is the culprit that reduces ozone thinning saying that it was a man-made causation by the introduction of CFC. Yet, but people do not realize that Earth produces natural chlorine by the tons each year. Oh, say, like five million tons of this chemical are produced naturally every year. This amount dwarfs the 26 thousand tons produced annually by man. A two order of magnitude difference! Some scientists believe that this natural methyl chloride is an innate regulator of stratospheric ozone.
Chlorine Chemistry Division : Natural Chlorine? You Bet!

All the more reasons that politicians are jumping the gun way, way too early in this CO2 and Ozone thing. It is folly to think man has the capability to completely control and change the Earth's climate. Heck, we can't even stop a tornado!

American scientists are hardly the totality of the scientific community. The number of scientists with Ph.D.s is completely irrelevent without also identifying how many scientists total within the scientific community have a doctorate level degree.

Stopping a tornado and controlling human produced pollutants are two very different concepts.

 

[jillio]

so you're telling me you know Earth science better than me?

in case you didn't notice - nowhere in your post have you explained about this scientifically. It's more of like distorting others as right-wing agenda.

I'm saying your knowledge of such, and ability to explain such, is in no way superior to my own.

It isn't a distortion at all that this entire thread is based on right wing agenda. It is simply masquerading as scientific in a failed attempt to give it credibility. I direct you back to the title. Nothing scientific there.

 

[Jiro]

I'm saying your knowledge of such, and ability to explain such, is in no way superior to my own.

It isn't a distortion at all that this entire thread is based on right wing agenda. It is simply masquerading as scientific in a failed attempt to give it credibility. I direct you back to the title. Nothing scientific there.

no... I said my knowledge in this subject is quite better than yours. None of your posts have contributed much to this thread. It's more of mudslinging.

Perhaps it might do you good by actually contributing something to this thread instead of mudslinging. It is quite apparent that you have a "noble yet silly" agenda for poor-middle class.

 

[Jiro]

Correct. Which means that until that proof is offered, one can offer an opinion either way based on what evidence there is. The lack of proof from either side is exactly why there is no current consensus within the scientific community.

I see.... so exactly how did I fail to see the point?

It's still same thing - the scientific community has not been able to conclude on the main culprit. because of that - the effective policy cannot be created by the Congress.

 

[kokonut]

Ahh...but at least my degrees are in the field of science.

But my point is, you cannot use someone else's lack of a degree to invalidate their point, and validate your own, when you don't possess the necessary degree, either.

Now, back on topic. The title is extremely misleading, and nothing more than an attempt to misrepresent to further a personal political agenda.

Not in the field of natural sciences. For you to say "science" is to purposely imply that you are also in the field of natural sciences. It is not the same thing as in the field of social sciences.

As for the title, there is some truth to it. If Congress force companies to comply with the cap and trade law, which will cost companies overall trillions of dollars to do the changes and retro-fittings. The costs born by companies WILL pass over to the consumers where they will be forced to pay higher costs in services and products. It is essentially a tax, loosely speaking, to the middle class and poor who have no choice but to empty their wallets even further over unproven science that lacked any scientific credibility in the first place. Surprised you don't even see that. Might want to use that social science skill of yours and see the impact of higher costs to consumers through passage of (silly) laws by Congress (mostly Democrats) and signed by a sitting Democrat president over something over an unproven science.

 

[Jiro]

Ahh...but at least my degrees are in the field of science.

But my point is, you cannot use someone else's lack of a degree to invalidate their point, and validate your own, when you don't possess the necessary degree, either.

Now, back on topic. The title is extremely misleading, and nothing more than an attempt to misrepresent to further a personal political agenda.

unfortunately - your degrees fall in.... subject quite different from this subject. You cannot use your degrees to cover ALL fields and validate your own over anyone's.

Both of our degrees are in the field of science but both of our degrees are very specific. Mine lies in this subject and I'm sure you know where yours lies in.

so this OP's links are some right-wing's agenda? I see no such thing. Where in the world did you get that from? I see a disagreement to combating the problem. If you really wanna go down the path where you accuse one of being a right-wing.. well let's go -

The House passed this useless and ghastly-costly bill simply because it would make them feel good. A typical left-wing style... :roll:

 

[shel90]

"Ozone hole" is a scare tactic words. There is no hole at all. It's simply an ozone thinning. Ozone is found all over the Earth high above the atmosphere down to city levels.

Yes, cold is factor. The dynamics of how climate works remain complex and elusive. Scientists continue make assumptions about ozone thinning and the factors involved causing ozone to thin. Remember, we have only recent ozone data to look into vesus data going back 600 million years in oxygen isotope studies in sea cores to understand what climate was like temperature wise and the amount of CO2 concentration over time.

Yes, there is an ozone hole. All that hairspray used in the 80s contributed to it. We were constantly warned of that hole getting bigger from our hairstyles!

 

[jillio]

no... I said my knowledge in this subject is quite better than yours. None of your posts have contributed much to this thread. It's more of mudslinging.

Perhaps it might do you good by actually contributing something to this thread instead of mudslinging. It is quite apparent that you have a "noble yet silly" agenda for poor-middle class.

Better = superior. And I still maintain it is not so.

It is not mudslinging at all. It is simply pointing out that the title is misleading and attempts to convey a message that is not evident in the bill itself.

 

[Jiro]

Better = superior. And I still maintain it is not so.

right and? I do not challenge on you when it comes to your field.

It is not mudslinging at all. It is simply pointing out that the title is misleading and attempts to convey a message that is not evident in the bill itself.

and it is also misleading to put the blame on CO2 as well.

 

[jillio]

unfortunately - your degrees fall in.... subject quite different from this subject. You cannot use your degrees to cover ALL fields and validate your own over anyone's.

Both of our degrees are in the field of science but both of our degrees are very specific. Mine lies in this subject and I'm sure you know where yours lies in.

so this OP's links are some right-wing's agenda? I see no such thing. Where in the world did you get that from? I see a disagreement to combating the problem. If you really wanna go down the path where you accuse one of being a right-wing.. well let's go -

The House passed this useless and ghastly-costly bill simply because it would make them feel good. A typical left-wing style... :roll:

As are yours, Jiro. As are yours.:roll: I reinterate: geography is not environmental chemistry. And the topic of this thread is the effect that such a bill will have on the poor and middle class.

 

[Babyblue]

Yes, there is an ozone hole. All that hairspray used in the 80s contributed to it. We were constantly warned of that hole getting bigger from our hairstyles!

:rofl2:

The Aerosol cans! I remember that back in the 80s.

 

[jillio]

right and? I do not challenge on you when it comes to your field.


and it is also misleading to put the blame on CO2 as well.

Then why are you continuing to bring it into the discussion? The discussion is whether or not this bill will affect the poor and middle class alone.

 

[jillio]

Yes, there is an ozone hole. All that hairspray used in the 80s contributed to it. We were constantly warned of that hole getting bigger from our hairstyles!

 

[kokonut]

American scientists are hardly the totality of the scientific community. The number of scientists with Ph.D.s is completely irrelevent without also identifying how many scientists total within the scientific community have a doctorate level degree.

Stopping a tornado and controlling human produced pollutants are two very different concepts.

And I quote what Al Gore said:

"The debate is over! There's no longer any debate in the scientific community about this."

He made a totality statement saying that ALL scientists agree. Hardly the case which is why I pointed out that there are thousands of scientists with PhDs in the field of natural sciences who disagree professionally that global warming is the result of man-made CO2.

Jillio, understand that the attempt to control climate over a global scale is futile. The Earth and Sun are the two biggest sources that influence the dynamics of our climate....not man kind (short of detonating every nuclear warheads on Earth at once). CO2 is not a pollutant. The amount of CO2 that man produces is extremely, extremely miniscule compared the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere right now. Very small. Need I do a trillion dollars scenario for you again?

 

[Jiro]

Yes, there is an ozone hole. All that hairspray used in the 80s contributed to it. We were constantly warned of that hole getting bigger from our hairstyles!

If the world is populated by females with hairspray......

no no no I'm not gonna go there. I don't wanna get banned for being sexist