Heaven and Hell...

[Teresh]

Well, as long not believing in hell, then you making God a liar.

That's assuming that God actually said that there is a Hell--Something I don't believe in. God did not "lie" because I'm not denying what what God said, just acknowledging what God did not say. Remember now that I have a different holy book from you and therefore a different understanding of God and what God said.

What Jesus described what hell is like. His grace is still giving you, but u resist and fall into believe humanist or fallacy of man of all the philosophies.

What Jesus said (or did not, as the case may be) does not have any effect on me as an individual because I am not a Christian and because within the scope of my beliefs, Jesus is not a god.

I trust the Lord, not man and men's theories.

God did not give humans intelligence and the ability to think and reason for us to squander it. By saying that you trust God rather than man, you also doubt God by saying that beings created by God in God's image are not capable of emulating the divine.

The Word of God is the Truth, nothing but the Truth and the whole Truth. Many doesn't know what the Bible really is about, and what its for and the purpose of the Word. Many look only thenegative side of what has happen and get misconception of who God is and He is doing everything He can and that's what Jesus was here for, but still the stubborness of people rejecting Him and hold on to human theories and pervert the minds of people to twist and get a way with by all kinds of wrong view of who God is.

There are no right or wrong views of God, only different opinions. Being a good person is more important than having any specific belief or set of beliefs.

Is the Christian murderer better than the non-Christian who fights for peace and equal rights?

Did Mahatma Gandhi go to hell for not being a Christian?

Whether you believe or not, its not my authority and I have no place to make you believe, and God doesn't give me the authority to do, Just like Jesus on earth doesn't make pharisees and some jewish to believe, they have the choice. Tho they saw their own eyes, still human rationalize and pervert and decieved people and that been carry on todays.

Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah because he didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies. Christian scripture has opted to demonize the Jewish people because the Jewish people have historically relied on logic and reason rather than on blind faith and revelation. You incorrectly assume that the Jews are being presumptuous against God by not accepting Christianity when it is in fact the opposite--It is because of God that Christianity was not adopted.

 

[Reba]

God is real.

Heaven is real.

Satan is real.

Hell is real.

Everything we need to know about those things are included in the Holy Bible.

Not everyone accepts the Bible as the Word of God.

God and His Word continue, whether or not people believe.

 

[Teresh]

God is real.

Heaven is real.

Satan is real.

Hell is real.

Everything we need to know about those things are included in the Holy Bible.

Not everyone accepts the Bible as the Word of God.

God and His Word continue, whether or not people believe.

Spoken like a true Christian who gives blind faith to an idea.

 

[Reba]

Spoken like a true Christian who gives blind faith to an idea.

I have faith, not "blind" faith.

BTW, did I criticize you personally?

 

[Teresh]

I have faith, not "blind" faith.

By your statements, the logical conclusion one would come to is that you don't question your beliefs, don't ask questions, you just accept it. You call that being faithful. I call it being blind.

BTW, did I criticize you personally?

No. I didn't criticise you either, I criticised Christianity and the way it attempts to erode the natural ability of its adherents to think and reason.

 

[Reba]

By your statements, the logical conclusion one would come to is that you don't question your beliefs, don't ask questions, you just accept it. You call that being faithful. I call it being blind.

Your conclusion would be wrong. I probably ask more questions than you can even imagine.

No. I didn't criticise you either, I criticised Christianity and the way it attempts to erode the natural ability of its adherents to think and reason.

Well, it was addressed to my post, not to all of Christianity.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

That's assuming that God actually said that there is a Hell--Something I don't believe in. God did not "lie" because I'm not denying what what God said, just acknowledging what God did not say. Remember now that I have a different holy book from you and therefore a different understanding of God and what God said.



What Jesus said (or did not, as the case may be) does not have any effect on me as an individual because I am not a Christian and because within the scope of my beliefs, Jesus is not a god.



God did not give humans intelligence and the ability to think and reason for us to squander it. By saying that you trust God rather than man, you also doubt God by saying that beings created by God in God's image are not capable of emulating the divine.



There are no right or wrong views of God, only different opinions. Being a good person is more important than having any specific belief or set of beliefs.

Is the Christian murderer better than the non-Christian who fights for peace and equal rights?

Did Mahatma Gandhi go to hell for not being a Christian?



Jews rejected Jesus as the Messiah because he didn't fulfill the Messianic prophecies. Christian scripture has opted to demonize the Jewish people because the Jewish people have historically relied on logic and reason rather than on blind faith and revelation. You incorrectly assume that the Jews are being presumptuous against God by not accepting Christianity when it is in fact the opposite--It is because of God that Christianity was not adopted.

You got the wrong view of christian. Christian is not just believe Jesus, christian is a person who acknowledge who we are and what God has done for us. Its not just a "religion" thing. Yes, jews knew the prophesies who Jesus is, tho Jesus keep saying, " did you not read?" over and over. But the religious leaders denied and tho, some religious leaders did read and found so much of the old testaments has prophesied and who Jesus is matched what the prophesies has written. Christian does not mean people going to church or being a good person. Christian is Christ in them after acknowledge we are a sinner and giving their lives to Christ as our Redeemer and God's free gift to those who doesn't deserve which called saved by grace. Its a beautiful moment. Yes, some get a way with sin, Paul keep telling christians we were dead to sin and have a new life in Christ. But there are Bible for unbeliever to point out. And not only that, you know Bible has written used by Torah and jewish documents to be kept for us to know what God has done, and its God's letter to us and for us.

 

[Teresh]

Its not just a "religion" thing. Yes, jews knew the prophesies who Jesus is, tho Jesus keep saying, " did you not read?" over and over. But the religious leaders denied and tho, some religious leaders did read and found so much of the old testaments has prophesied and who Jesus is matched what the prophesies has written.

That's not true at all--Jesus did not match the prophecies. Christians would tell you otherwise, but the fact of the matter is that he did not. Actually, one of the biggest problems Christianity ran into in its early history was that Jews did not accept it because it was nonsense from the Jewish perspective. This is why Pauline Christianity became essentially a Gentile religion. Paul invented the idea of the second coming in order to explain why the prophecies were not fulfilled--that they would be fulfilled when Jesus came again.

Christians had to reinterpret (and in some cases, change) Hebrew Scripture in order to make their own beliefs sound reasonable... Many chapters (and whole books) were added to Hebrew Scripture in order to justify Christianity as a valid interpretation and conclusion of Judaism. Jews logically called "Foul!" to Gentiles subverting their religion in favor of something completely different.

Christian does not mean people going to church or being a good person.

Precisely. Christianity means surrendering yourself to Jesus even if it means making you a disgusting individual. Being a good person isn't important. As long as you believe in Jesus, you get to go to heaven.

That doesn't make sense to the majority of people in the world who aren't Christian, myself included.

Christian is Christ in them after acknowledge we are a sinner and giving their lives to Christ as our Redeemer and God's free gift to those who doesn't deserve which called saved by grace. Its a beautiful moment.

I could disagree with you on this, but I don't see the point. This is just a matter of faith.

Yes, some get a way with sin, Paul keep telling christians we were dead to sin and have a new life in Christ.

And by assuming that you can do no wrong, you inevitably lead yourself to even greater sin. It is great to have a strong ego, but if you can't question yourself and your actions, you will cause more havoc than if you had none at all.

 

[jazzy]

That's odd--I thought most people complain that Christians are too involved with the present world and fighting evil. Most of the criticisms of Christianity that I read in AD are about Christians wanting to impose their morality on others.

Complaints:

*Christians want laws against drinking, adultery, pornography, abortion, fornication, gambling, strip clubs, and prostitution.

*Christians support wars against terrorism.

*Christians support severe penalties against murderers, rapists, and pedophiles.

*Christians support modest dress, clean language, and family movies.

*Christians are too judgmental.

*Christians preach too much against sin.

*Christians are too involved in politics.


So, are Christians too involved with fighting the world's evils, or not involved enough?

Really? I do not see many Christian practice LOVE enough among us.

 

[Reba]

...Christianity means surrendering yourself to Jesus even if it means making you a disgusting individual. Being a good person isn't important. ..

Totally wrong.

Jesus never leads anyone to become "a disgusting individual". If someone is surrendered to Jesus, that person wants to become more Christlike, and Christ is NOT "disgusting."

Being a "good" person (by human standards) doesn't get one into Heaven. Being a "good" person is obeying God, which includes loving, serving and helping others.

...And by assuming that you can do no wrong, you inevitably lead yourself to even greater sin. It is great to have a strong ego, but if you can't question yourself and your actions, you will cause more havoc than if you had none at all.

Christians don't assume that they can do no wrong. Christians acknowledge that they sin.

I John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Christians know that they are weak without God. That is not ego. That is admitting that we need God.

Philippians 4
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

I Corinthians 10
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

 

[Teresh]

Jesus never leads anyone to become "a disgusting individual". If someone is surrendered to Jesus, that person wants to become more Christlike, and Christ is NOT "disgusting."

The KKK is a Christian organisation. By Christian doctrine, as followers of Jesus, they will go to heaven.

Being a "good" person (by human standards) doesn't get one into Heaven. Being a "good" person is obeying God, which includes loving, serving and helping others.

So Gandhi went to heaven? Or did he go to hell?

 

[jazzy]

Totally wrong.

Jesus never leads anyone to become "a disgusting individual". If someone is surrendered to Jesus, that person wants to become more Christlike, and Christ is NOT "disgusting."

Being a "good" person (by human standards) doesn't get one into Heaven. Being a "good" person is obeying God, which includes loving, serving and helping others.



Christians don't assume that they can do no wrong. Christians acknowledge that they sin.

I John 1
8 If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

Christians know that they are weak without God. That is not ego. That is admitting that we need God.

Philippians 4
13 I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me.

I Corinthians 10
12 Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Is it all right for a christian man to kill someone else because this person happened to steal his chicken and he got praised from his christian fellowers for murder a thief? To me he was a disgusted christian. that is my IHMO.

 

[kias_h]

I don't believe in hell NOR heaven.

Many of you just wish there's life after death. Remember, once you die, you cease to exist. You won't know you were existing here. Just like you didn't know you were born to exist.

Life after death or before birth is just an illusion that we all want to believe in despite no evidence to support it.

If I were God, I wouldn't force people to choose me or Satan. I wouldn't even care if they believe in me or not. All I care is their morals and if they lead a moral life. But again, to be fair to everyone, none should get in heaven or hell.

G'day netrox,
Well, would it be okay to say that there is no evidence to support that there isn't life after death? You'll have to let me know how you disproved that. There are many things in this world that people cannot explain.

You know, when a compound is broken down you'll find atoms. And when you break down atoms you get your electron, neutrons etc. The further you break down 'matter' the more you realise that it's made of 'nothing' - it's just space - void. Is it a coincidence that God created the universe out of nothing? I guess you might say that it was.

I wonder if you'd agree that it takes faith not to believe in God. You have no evidence to say he doesn't exist or that life after death doesn't exist. So wouldn't it be fair to say that you may just have the illusion?

Maybe this karma that was spoken about is actually a part of God and his way. Maybe you're seeing a small detail of his big picture. Maybe Christianity is why the western world prospers so much more than Hindu, Muslim and Bhuddist countries? Maybe it's Christianity that has the better understanding of Gods ways because it is of God.

I think it's fair to say that it takes more faith to believe outside of God than to believe in God. If you believe in God he'll prove himself to you over and over. Praise God =))

 

[jazzy]

The KKK is a Christian organisation. By Christian doctrine, as followers of Jesus, they will go to heaven.



So Gandhi went to heaven? Or did he go to hell?

It is alike they were saying about jews being gassed during Hitler years and burned in hell because they happened not born again christians then the killers who killed them become born again christians and go to heaven after they died. It does not make any sense to me at all.

 

[kias_h]

The KKK is a Christian organisation. By Christian doctrine, as followers of Jesus, they will go to heaven.



So Gandhi went to heaven? Or did he go to hell?

Hi Teresh!

I like the way you think - no joke. You challenge something before you give it credit it seems. I wish more people would do that.

The KKK labelled themselves of God, but I wonder if they even read the bible to try challenge their beliefs. When people have to justify the unjustifyable they think of some weird justifications ay. I guess you could label them extremists. They didn't challenge their thoughts like you do: instead they tried to portray their own thoughts as God's thoughts. But in reality, they would have had trouble finding passages that said 'go forth and hate blacks and dehumanise them in my name!' =P

Would Ghandi go to hell? I wonder...
But who are you or I to judge ay.. We're not particularly perfect so I doubt make a perfect and righteous judgement. True?? =))

 

[Teresh]

G'day netrox,
Well, would it be okay to say that there is no evidence to support that there isn't life after death? You'll have to let me know how you disproved that. There are many things in this world that people cannot explain.

It can't be proven or disproven. That's a fact. We can, however, certify that we exist and work to make the world in which we currently live a better place.

You know, when a compound is broken down you'll find atoms. And when you break down atoms you get your electron, neutrons etc. The further you break down 'matter' the more you realise that it's made of 'nothing' - it's just space - void. Is it a coincidence that God created the universe out of nothing? I guess you might say that it was.

Quarks and gluons certainly aren't space...

I wonder if you'd agree that it takes faith not to believe in God. You have no evidence to say he doesn't exist or that life after death doesn't exist. So wouldn't it be fair to say that you may just have the illusion?

It does take faith to believe in God. You have faith. That's great. Not everyone shares your faith.

Maybe this karma that was spoken about is actually a part of God and his way. Maybe you're seeing a small detail of his big picture. Maybe Christianity is why the western world prospers so much more than Hindu, Muslim and Bhuddist countries? Maybe it's Christianity that has the better understanding of Gods ways because it is of God.

As far as I recall, the #2 and #3 world economies are China and Japan, both atheistic nations.

I think it's fair to say that it takes more faith to believe outside of God than to believe in God. If you believe in God he'll prove himself to you over and over. Praise God =))

Well, that's your opinion.

 

[kias_h]

Sorry to upset you =)

But I wish you the best. We'll agree to disgree.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

That's not true at all--Jesus did not match the prophecies. Christians would tell you otherwise, but the fact of the matter is that he did not. Actually, one of the biggest problems Christianity ran into in its early history was that Jews did not accept it because it was nonsense from the Jewish perspective. This is why Pauline Christianity became essentially a Gentile religion. Paul invented the idea of the second coming in order to explain why the prophecies were not fulfilled--that they would be fulfilled when Jesus came again.

Christians had to reinterpret (and in some cases, change) Hebrew Scripture in order to make their own beliefs sound reasonable... Many chapters (and whole books) were added to Hebrew Scripture in order to justify Christianity as a valid interpretation and conclusion of Judaism. Jews logically called "Foul!" to Gentiles subverting their religion in favor of something completely different.



Precisely. Christianity means surrendering yourself to Jesus even if it means making you a disgusting individual. Being a good person isn't important. As long as you believe in Jesus, you get to go to heaven.

That doesn't make sense to the majority of people in the world who aren't Christian, myself included.



I could disagree with you on this, but I don't see the point. This is just a matter of faith.



And by assuming that you can do no wrong, you inevitably lead yourself to even greater sin. It is great to have a strong ego, but if you can't question yourself and your actions, you will cause more havoc than if you had none at all.

Don't misunderstand what I'm saying about getting a way with sin, yes, I have sin in many ways, but Christ Himself by the help of the Holy Spirit help me to deal with my sins. There are different responding of sin, its the way of attitude about sins. Either deal with it or do what ever you want by saying nobody perfect and get by with it. Facing battle is till either Jesus comes or when living on earth ends. Christians will be judge also, but the rewards, either good or bad, but eternal life stands. But you can believe what u want to believe, but I stick with the facts and Truth. " I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I, but Christ lives in me. The life I now live in the flesh by the faith of Son of God who loves me and gave Himself for me." As I see on other post, that's all you are doing criticizing christians and stereotyping the christians and think we are bad. Not only that, we are not out to set to kill somebody or bomb on someone like other religions are doing. Amazingly, Jews are more close knit with Christians than with Islam. Why? I met the jewish whom himself doesn't believe Christ is the Messiah. As he said that the reason bec He could be the Messiah, there are many identified as Christ, but struggling with it. As of Moses lead the people thru the wilderness and hebrews went across the Jordan River to the Promised Land as same picture, Jesus lead me thru the wilderness and till my time comes, I will be crossing over the Jordan River to the Promise Land, which is Heaven, not what I did, its what Christ did. Praise His Holy Name, His Name above all names. Forever I worship my God who is worthy to be praise. Amen and hallelujah.

 

[hottiedeafboi]

KKK may called themselves christians, but no Christ examples. Why? What did Jesus say? "Love your neighbor as youself" and also says"Love your enemies". Now, if you hate someone is the murderer. Now, when a person murdered someone, will his sin forgiven? Yes. Even we don't like that idea. All sins no matter what can be forgiven, but as Jesus said to the religious leader that they are living unpardonable sin, why? Bec Jesus knows their heart and despised and rejected Jesus Christ. What is unpardonable sins? It means when a person dies with sin still hold against him or her, the condemnation is his or her destination, there is no blood to atone for. That is why, sin robbed us, Jesus delivers us. Sin is not what we do, sin is a part of what we are born with like a carrier from Adam, all are in "black plague", that is death. Jesus came to die to take our punishment upon Himself and death, sin and hell lost its powers. But still attack us, but can't have us, that is those who have Christ. Human is nothing but fallible, and sin claws hold us and onto outer darkness of torments. But Jesus came to defeat them and He did and that's why He arose and now, seated with the Father. There are some christians has very good example of lot of things, but instead they are looking the other side who isn't good example and shut the door on the good one and then proclaim how bad christians are. That's what I have seen. I have seen christians doesn't do what they should do, but that won't change my beliefs. The problem is this, they go to church sundays and wednesday, but no indwelling and pondering and worshipping God in solitary moments and feed the Spirit. Enormous unbelievers living disgusting lives, not just some christians. If someone not looking up to Jesus and share what Christ has done, does have lots of egos. There are many christians shows love, and even some preachers trying to tell the flocks what they need to change instead of living like the world and think like the world. Each person as a christian respond differently whatever they face.

 

[VamPyroX]

What if there is NO heaven or NO hell... just NOTHING? :Ohno: