HDTV and Closed Captioning

Peter on your Windows Media Center what format do you record your TV shows in? I'm thinking maybe MPEG 2. Also what video formats can record Closed Caption?

Is there a way to encode the file to a smaller video file and keep the Closed Caption?

Thanks!
 
vatkat234 said:
Peter on your Windows Media Center what format do you record your TV shows in? I'm thinking maybe MPEG 2. Also what video formats can record Closed Caption?

Is there a way to encode the file to a smaller video file and keep the Closed Caption?

Thanks!
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It's Microsoft proprietary MPEG 2 format. You can find some tools to convert to MPEG but it will likely strip out CC. I have tried it and gave up. But you can burn to DVD disc from inside Media Center and watch DVD only from Media Center in order to view CC. I do not have the need to save movies or TV programs so I simply delete what I record after I have watched them.

Peter
 
vatkat234 said:
Peter Windows Media Center might be the problem for Closed Caption.

Windows Media Player - messed up closed captioning - Tech Support Guy Forums

Try watching a TV program from one of the Big networks, and record it in another room see if it is Windows Media Center that is the problem.


I'm trying really hard to hold off for Windows 7. LOL
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The description is not clear and it's dated almost 2 years ago. The likely issue is from the local TV station. I've had CC issues and contacted my local TV stations and they have fixed them almost every time. It didn't specify whether it's analog or digital CC. Also the person didn't say that CC from TV works fine and not Media Center. I don't know how to respond without more information. You can't just say you won't use Media Center Edition just because one person has problems. I don't have any issues with my Media Center Edition and it behaves exactly like my TV.

I don't expect Windows 7 to be any better regarding to CC.

Peter
 
It runs great for me. Only complaint is coming back from sleep. It doesn't always but it always been that way up to and including Vista.
 
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vatkat234 said:
No I just want to skip over Vista. I know Windows 7 is not going to make Closed Caption any better.

Does Vista run good for you?
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Ever since Service Pack 1 was introduced, Vista is pretty good but requires more RAM and processing power. Suggest to use at least 2 GB RAM and at least a dual core CPU.

Peter
 
I just posted an issue regarding DirecTV. We just bought a new TV that recommends use of the HDMI cables, but we were not interested in upgrading the current set-box we have for the extra costs. DirecTV only extends closed captions if you upgrade. I have since cancelled my service because I feel that CC should be available with all machines.
 
Hey you might want to look into Dishnetwork, and see what they have?

When you sign up the first time with a new service they give you some nice deals.

I also think all boxes should support closed caption. But the reason they take it out is for cost. The Closed Caption chip cost money. So to them that's why it's not there.

Not saying I think it's right but that's how it is. They are companies out to make a buck.
 
vatkat234 said:
Hey you might want to look into Dishnetwork, and see what they have?

When you sign up the first time with a new service they give you some nice deals.

I also think all boxes should support closed caption. But the reason they take it out is for cost. The Closed Caption chip cost money. So to them that's why it's not there.

Not saying I think it's right but that's how it is. They are companies out to make a buck.
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Well, that post doesn't have full story, however, smrvb posted with detail is in that thread.
 
smrvb said:
I just posted an issue regarding DirecTV. We just bought a new TV that recommends use of the HDMI cables, but we were not interested in upgrading the current set-box we have for the extra costs. DirecTV only extends closed captions if you upgrade. I have since cancelled my service because I feel that CC should be available with all machines.
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You could still get CC via S-Video or Composite cable with your current DirectTV STB but if you wanted a HDTV network with CC then you have to get a box that will support HDTV networks and pay extra for it.

There is no difference between keeping old STB and using HDTV STB if you do not subscribe to HDTV network but stay with analog networks only.

Even same with hearing people, if they want HDTV network so they have to get HDTV STB and pay extra for it. There is no difference at all between how DirectTV is treating between hearing and Deaf on HDTV supported networks they both are charged the same if they want CC or not.

As far I know all of DirectTV HDTV STB have a built in CC decoder that will overlay on video before sending it to HDMI cable but no point to get HDTV STB if you are not subcribing to any of the HDTV Networks and analog DirectTV STB will still work on HDTV using s-video or composite video out with CC working.


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DonnaH said:
To All,
Does anyone know who we should contact in FCC agency about resolving the issue of "EXTREMELY POOR" CC on HDTV channels. CC seems to work well only on NON-HDTV channels.
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I'm puzzled by that. The captioning for non-digital TV has minimal error detection (the bytes sent in Line 21 are "odd parity," i.e. each byte has an odd number of bits set to 1) and no error correction. If either byte of the two bytes sent at a time fails parity check, they're both tossed, which is why you often see two letters missing from words. Many errors don't change parity, so they escape detection--which is why you often see weird accented characters sprinkled in captions where they shouldn't be.

Digital TV captioning, though, is a part of an MPEG-2 data stream, and I'd have thought it would have a decent level of error correction built in.

Check out this article in TV Newsday; TV stations now^H^H^Hsoon will have to post contact info on their web site for someone to deal with captioning problems, and stations have to respond to complaints within thirty days. I wonder whether that applies to cable operators as well as stations?

UPDATE: Drat! Those rules aren't yet in effect; see the FCC's closed captioning web page for details and info on how to file complaints.
 
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A couple of weeks ago, I finally got an ATSC TV--ironic, since it was the fourth anniversary of my having gone to work for a company doing digital TV software, with my first job being implementing EIA-708B CC--and last weekend, we swapped out the old digital cable box for a new, HD capable one.

The TV's CC display is really nice (it's an LG 32LG70), but the CC generated by the cable box, which is the only way we can get it over an HDMI connection, it seems, stinks on ice. The characters look like they're badly antialiased, even from ten feet away, and are clearly horribly low resolution. Worse yet, the implementation of CC seems buggy; two-line pop-on captions tend to be missing the first line.

The cable box/DVR is a Pace TDCT778X, software version 74.64-3337, firmware version 10.66. Does someone else out there have one of these? Is CC broken for you, too?
 
jejones3141 said:
A couple of weeks ago, I finally got an ATSC TV--ironic, since it was the fourth anniversary of my having gone to work for a company doing digital TV software, with my first job being implementing EIA-708B CC--and last weekend, we swapped out the old digital cable box for a new, HD capable one.

The TV's CC display is really nice (it's an LG 32LG70), but the CC generated by the cable box, which is the only way we can get it over an HDMI connection, it seems, stinks on ice. The characters look like they're badly antialiased, even from ten feet away, and are clearly horribly low resolution. Worse yet, the implementation of CC seems buggy; two-line pop-on captions tend to be missing the first line.

The cable box/DVR is a Pace TDCT778X, software version 74.64-3337, firmware version 10.66. Does someone else out there have one of these? Is CC broken for you, too?
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You're seeing these captioning problems on ALL of the channels? Is there a difference with captions on HD versus SD channels, or for different kinds of programming?

You might try checking the quality of the caption data by running the RF cable directly into your HDTV, assuming it has a built-in QAM tuner, and making sure your TV's digital captions are on. (You may be able to get at least some channels.) If the captioning is still buggy on digital channels, then the captioning is either being badly transmitted by your cable company (which is common) or by the program distributor. If it's flawless, then there's a problem with how your cable box is set up or how it's designed.

BTW, what kind of HDTV did you get (since you liked the TV's CCs?)
 
Hi, folks. A while ago, I set up a thread on the AVS Forum for reviews of HDTVs and how they handle captioning. It would be really useful to have a lot more reviews of different TVs. See:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1101290

However, since a lot of people have trouble figuring out how to register on the AVS Forum, it may be better to set up a separate thread here for reviews of how the different HDTVs handle captioning issues. On the other hand, the structure there is very similar to the structure here; they're both bulletin board systems. Let me know what you think and if you'd be willing to review how your own HDTV handles captioning issues.

Dana
 
We just bought a Samsung HDTV and could not understand why we could not get closed captioning. Even the Geek Squad did not know how to get it with COX. We called cox and it was very easy. Just go to "Settings" with the Cox control and scroll to find "closed caption." It was on off -- we just right-arrowed and turned it "on" and that was it. It works find. I don't understand why the Samsung manual says that CC will not work if it's on HDMI. It worked find once we turned on the CC setting.
 
csoyyo said:
We just bought a Samsung HDTV and could not understand why we could not get closed captioning. Even the Geek Squad did not know how to get it with COX. We called cox and it was very easy. Just go to "Settings" with the Cox control and scroll to find "closed caption." It was on off -- we just right-arrowed and turned it "on" and that was it. It works find. I don't understand why the Samsung manual says that CC will not work if it's on HDMI. It worked find once we turned on the CC setting.
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The Samsung manual was correct. There is no national standard for HDMI cables to transmit closed caption data to your HDTV. What's happening is that the COX set top box is decoding the captions, not your HDTV, and the HDMI cables are transmitting the images of the already decoded captions. Your Samsung HDTV isn't decoding the captions (and can't).

If, however, you tried putting the RF cable directly into your HDTV, you could probably get some digital programs that way and you'd be able to see how your Samsung HDTV decodes caption. (You can also attach an antenna and see the same thing.) You'd have to scan for channels on either the cable or antenna setting in order to see any channels at all, though.

You may only be seeing very basic captions from Cox right now. See if you can figure out how to turn on the advanced captions and choose yellow text, large size, and play around with the caption fonts to see what you like. You'll see those captions from the HD channels, although if you were to use over-the-air broadcast television, you'd see the advanced captions for virtually all the channels.
 
TechBill said:
CC are stripped before it passed thur HDMI or upconvert Compoment cables so you can't get CC on HDTV unless DirectTV box have built in CC (HDTV DirectTV box does have it built in) or HDTV Cable box have built in CC that you will need to enable before it is sent to the HDTV via HDMI or upconvert Compoment.

Stupid move by the FCC to allow this on HDMI and upconvert Compoment.

Since there is no upconvert dvd player that could decode CC and we are currently stuck with old DVD player and HDTV TV if we want to watch the standard DVD discs unless you built a HTPC computer which I did and it allow me to upcovert my movies with CC and pass it out HDMI or Compoment.


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Panasonic has two models that I know for sure have support of closed captions when using an HDMI cable. The DMREZ27 and DMREZ28. I purchased the EZ28 at best buy yesterday and after hooking it up to my tv I had to turn on analog and digital CC in the setup menu of the dvd player. Then as a test I put in Stargate season 1 disc 1 which only has closed captions (no subtitles) and turned off the CC on my tv. When I played the episode the Captions were visible even with tv CC turned off as these panasonic recorders make the captions part of the picture before sending it over the HDMI cables to the tv. I hope the helps everyone looking for a way to get the most of their HDTV's and still have CC's. Please pass the word to others about panasonics support of this feature (at least in their dvd recorders).
 
I use the CC through my HD Verizon FiOS set-top box, and sometimes the captions are late, early, or they flash for a second. Then other times they are perfect.
 
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