Has anybody else seen the changing of the American flag anywhere else yet?

Nic said:
This is actually a fairly strong argument and raises the question as to whether states should provide personalized plates at all. I don't know what it takes to get something as a personalized plate, or what the rules are, but I know it's not wide open or we'd see Nike, Pepsi, Apple, and god only knows what other company advertisement plates out there already. (I wonder what the Viagra plate would look like)

My initial thought is that plates are provided by (and maybe stay the property of?) the state government. It'd be like a state putting a Union Jack on a license plate, weird since we aren't part of the British Empire anymore. Our government entities shouldn't be displaying the Union Jack because it implies that entity wants to go back to being under British rule. In the case of the Confederate flag it implies a separatist state, and I don't think anyone actually wants to separate (except maybe Cascadia, that movement is totally real).

But thinking about personalized plates, this might be a seperate issue entirely. As far as I know, there aren't plates available that let people display their religions, or basically any other huge array of interests.

Personally, I completely believe in people's rights to fly whatever flag, hold whatever beliefs, and more or less do whatever they want so long as it doesn't directly/deliberately cause harm (physical or mental) and it doesn't prevent others from the same freedom. But organizations like the government represent many people and as such need to keep a uniform message.
Click to expand...
Certain states do have religeous plates, and funny... Viagra plates with HARD on it
 
sonocativo said:
Certain states do have religeous plates, and funny... Viagra plates with HARD on it
Click to expand...
That's interesting, I haven't seen anything but the university, non-profit, military, and some state specific plates here (Washington State). If SC has that open of a policy on the backgrounds, you're probably right that a lawsuit will get the confederate flag back as an option.

Judging by the link from Reba though, it looks limited in SC.

Neat thing about the US is that the justice branch works for correcting mistakes, when they happen (sometimes very slowly though). Checks and balances and all that. As a strong proponent of free speech, I think the removal of the Confederate flag from the state government is ok. If they started banning all display of the flag, I'd be up in arms (even though it's not something I would display myself). Defending freedom has to be blind to personal beliefs sometimes, freedom is too important to lose on personal feelings.
 
People in Texas fly the confederate as well as the American flag both on their trucks ( Ive been down there and seen it myself ) they are proud to fly both for whatever reason, I just like the flag for its colors and style ( besides I like the emblems from History books in school) of the crossed guns and so on.... Ive only known the flag to be related to war, not racism or now what theyrre pushing as a hint of terrorism...smh
 
Nic said:
That's interesting, I haven't seen anything but the university, non-profit, military, and some state specific plates here (Washington State). If SC has that open of a policy on the backgrounds, you're probably right that a lawsuit will get the confederate flag back as an option.

Judging by the link from Reba though, it looks limited in SC.

Neat thing about the US is that the justice branch works for correcting mistakes, when they happen (sometimes very slowly though). Checks and balances and all that. As a strong proponent of free speech, I think the removal of the Confederate flag from the state government is ok. If they started banning display of the flag, I'd be up in arms (even though it's not something I would display myself). Defending freedom has to be blind to personal beliefs sometimes, freedom is too important to lose on personal feelings.
Click to expand...

The plm is american gov facilities have flown the rainbow flag, embassies even have done this, and obviously the white house lighting scheme the other day..
fairness is a falculty of justice, if gov facilities will proudly fly the raindbow which of course is a rather recent flag (late 60s), that did not contribute to the formation of the united states as we know it, and southern integregation and reconstruction did occure. then really the push to erase the confederte flag, which has a far more deeper history is just stright and plain political capital manuvering on the psrt of politicians.
9 people were murdered.
And its become about not just a flag, but forcing a rooted prart of history from the public square, ie gov buildings while proudly pushing another ideological flag.rainbow..
Seeing throough the smoke and mirrors..its really about controling and an.attempt at erasing history..
Which is always what authoritarians wish to and do...
Whether its the push to dig up long dead confederete generals buried in memphis, or banning the showing of confederete flags on gov property.
Its ominous really.
But its not suprising...
As for me. Dont have a bone in this fight. Other then the oppostion to authoritarianism and state intrusion in peoples lifes and the continued struggle to control history to control tomorrow...
 
sonocativo said:
WRONG, you can pick any background you want in some states if you have qualifications for it ( nurse, military...ect... even flags ) and some you dont need qualifications for such as the flags...
Click to expand...
huh? wrong? no I'm not wrong. those are state-approved designs.

sonocativo said:
so, they are in violation and I guarantee you there will be a constitutional overturn on it once someone takes it to court...been done before on other stuff. just wait.
Click to expand...
eh no not gonna happen. the Supreme Court has already spoken in this matter. they ruled in favor of state's right to regulate however they want it.

you are NOT free to do whatever you want with your license plate. you can only do whatever you want as per state guidelines. you pick what they offer you. to do anything else other than state's allowed personalization would be breaking the law - altering a license plate. you can also simply get a personalized frame for your license plate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...plate-case-isnt-limited-to-confederate-flags/

basically.... the only way to get what you want is to petition your state to allow it or get a special approval from the state.

just a fun fact - Steve Jobs got a special approval from the state to have no license plate for his car.
 
Nic said:
This is actually a fairly strong argument and raises the question as to whether states should provide personalized plates at all. I don't know what it takes to get something as a personalized plate, or what the rules are, but I know it's not wide open or we'd see Nike, Pepsi, Apple, and god only knows what other company advertisement plates out there already. (I wonder what the Viagra plate would look like)

My initial thought is that plates are provided by (and maybe stay the property of?) the state government. It'd be like a state putting a Union Jack on a license plate, weird since we aren't part of the British Empire anymore. Our government entities shouldn't be displaying the Union Jack because it implies that entity wants to go back to being under British rule. In the case of the Confederate flag it implies a separatist state, and I don't think anyone actually wants to separate (except maybe Cascadia, that movement is totally real).

But thinking about personalized plates, this might be a seperate issue entirely. As far as I know, there aren't plates available that let people display their religions, or basically any other huge array of interests.

Personally, I completely believe in people's rights to fly whatever flag, hold whatever beliefs, and more or less do whatever they want so long as it doesn't directly/deliberately cause harm (physical or mental) and it doesn't prevent others from the same freedom. But organizations like the government represent many people and as such need to keep a uniform message.
Click to expand...

old news. it's easy to get a personalized plate. you tell them what you want and they will either approve it or not. it's that simple. and then pay the fee for it.
 
Jiro said:
huh? wrong? no I'm not wrong. those are state-approved designs.


eh no not gonna happen. the Supreme Court has already spoken in this matter. they ruled in favor of state's right to regulate however they want it.

you are NOT free to do whatever you want with your license plate. you can only do whatever you want as per state guidelines. you pick what they offer you. to do anything else other than state's allowed personalization would be breaking the law - altering a license plate. you can also simply get a personalized frame for your license plate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...plate-case-isnt-limited-to-confederate-flags/

basically.... the only way to get what you want is to petition your state to allow it or get a special approval from the state.

just a fun fact - Steve Jobs got a special approval from the state to have no license plate for his car.
Click to expand...



was that just because jobs could? What was the reasong?
 
hoichi said:
The plm is american gov facilities have flown the rainbow flag, embassies even have done this, and obviously the white house lighting scheme the other day..
fairness is a falculty of justice, if gov facilities will proudly fly the raindbow which of course is a rather recent flag (late 60s), that did not contribute to the formation of the united states as we know it, and southern integregation and reconstruction did occure. then really the push to erase the confederte flag, which has a far more deeper history is just stright and plain political capital manuvering on the psrt of politicians.
9 people were murdered.
And its become about not just a flag, but forcing a rooted prart of history from the public square, ie gov buildings while proudly pushing another ideological flag.rainbow..
Seeing throough the smoke and mirrors..its really about controling and an.attempt at erasing history..
Which is always what authoritarians wish to and do...
Whether its the push to dig up long dead confederete generals buried in memphis, or banning the showing of confederete flags on gov property.
Its ominous really.
But its not suprising...
As for me. Dont have a bone in this fight. Other then the oppostion to authoritarianism and state intrusion in peoples lifes and the continued struggle to control history to control tomorrow...
Click to expand...
I've kind of ignored the racist undertones of the confederate flag so far in my agreement with the change, but you make a good point about the rainbow flag. Prior to the change in law I would think the rainbow flag shouldn't have been flown by the government (except in states where marriage equality laws already passed). Prior to having laws passed it would be like the government encouraging you how to vote (which I guess they do already anyway, so now I don't even know...). Now that the law has passed, it seems like they were using it as a way to display support by the same government that suppressed (what is now seen as) a right.

With the confederate flag, at its core it stands for something that the US (Union) government was opposed to (separation via Confederates). I have to concede that that flag seems to have taken on racism tones (sadly) in which case though it's still something the government disproves of (since we have equal rights laws in place). In either case, it really doesn't make sense to be flown by the government, so I still agree with the ruling.

I'm not sure I would go as far as to say this is an attempt at erasing history. I'd like to believe nobody is trying to erase history, because that has the opposite effect than is typically desired. When history is erased, that's when it's likely to repeat iteself. I would agree that right now the move is political, but also prompted by pressure from the people.

It is also probably a move to control behavior, at least to some degree, but honestly I think it would just prompt an even stronger display by those who would fly the flag as a representation of beliefs and in rebellion (so the reverse effect).

I'm kind of with you, in that I don't really have a vested interest in the confederate flag but there's been talk about censorship, suppression of free speech, and such, and those are topics I get heated up over. Plus like I said earlier, if they outright banned the display of the flag (not just by the government) I would be quite against it. Freedom shouldn't be compromised for personal beliefs and regardless how we feel we need to support freedom (so long as the freedom doesn't impede on the freedom of others).
 
Jiro said:
old news. it's easy to get a personalized plate. you tell them what you want and they will either approve it or not. it's that simple. and then pay the fee for it.
Click to expand...
Not getting approval could definitely be contested though. Especially on the grounds of free speech and what not. I'm pretty sure we've had suits in WA state about specific words being blocked, while others weren't.

The specific here is the backgrounds though, not the letters. At least in WA those choices are limited. Sonocativo mentioned that some states have more open policies on the background though. In that case, I'd imagine people could contest in state court all the way through the state supreme court (if they could find a lawyer who'd take the case).

I'm really not this interested in license plates though, I just can't stop myself from taking the underdog side in a debate sometimes.
 
Nic said:
Not getting approval could definitely be contested though. Especially on the grounds of free speech and what not.

The specific here is the backgrounds though, not the letters. At least in WA those choices are limited. Sonocativo mentioned that some states have more open policies on the background though. In that case, I'd imagine people could contest in state court all the way through the state supreme court.

I'm really not this interested in license plates though, I just can't stop myself from taking the underdog side in a debate sometimes.
Click to expand...

nope. not gonna happen. sure you can contest it but it will be a waste of your time since Supreme Court has already ruled that everything's up to state - letter, background, design, everything because it's issued by the government.

this is a really simple issue... just get a bumper sticker or personalized frame. or simply move to another state that's more aligned to your liking. really - this is a very very simple thing. get out or shut up.
 
Jiro said:
nope. not gonna happen. sure you can contest it but it will be a waste of your time since Supreme Court has already ruled that everything's up to state - letter, background, design, everything because it's issued by the government.

this is a really simple issue... just get a bumper sticker or personalized frame. or simply move to another state that's more aligned to your liking. really - this is a very very simple thing. get out or shut up.
Click to expand...
You'd be contesting in the state judicial system though. Get the right judge and right lawyer and things can change. The state isn't like one big highly organized group, it's collections of agencies that sometimes don't agree. Mostly it'd be a waste of time/money/resources though.

Get out or shut up is a horrible message to send... SC was/is a state that traditionally had the confederate flag type mentality (at least from what I understand of SC, and that's a general statement so I get that not everyone SC person is of the same feelings). So if SC has changed (by pressure from people in other states) then where do those people go?

The majority can't bully the minority. That goes against the very freedom that we want to protect. Freedom is worth protecting, even if it means people can believe and display their beliefs that we don't personally agree with. Until those people impede on the freedom of others, or harm (physically or mentally) others, they can display their beliefs if they wish to.

See now you've gone and made me switch from defending the decision (which I still think is the right decision) to defending free speech (which I also think is a right we should all defend whether we agree with the message in question or not).
 
Nic said:
You'd be contesting in the state judicial system though. Get the right judge and right lawyer and things can change. The state isn't like one big highly organized group, it's collections of agencies that sometimes don't agree. Mostly it'd be a waste of time/money/resources though.

Get out or shut up is a horrible message to send... SC was/is a state that traditionally had the confederate flag type mentality (at least from what I understand of SC, and that's a general statement so I get that not everyone SC person is of the same feelings). So if SC has changed (by pressure from people in other states) then where do those people go?

The majority can't bully the minority. That goes against the very freedom that we want to protect. Freedom is worth protecting, even if it means people can believe and display their beliefs that we don't personally agree with. Until those people impede on the freedom of others, or harm (physically or mentally) others, they can display their beliefs if they wish to.

See now you've gone and made me switch from defending the decision (which I still think is the right decision) to defending free speech (which I also think is a right we should all defend whether we agree with the message in question or not).
Click to expand...

in this case.... you're barking up the wrong tree...

again - this is a very simple problem. you take what the government gives you and you are free to add a personal touch like frame and bumper sticker. plain and simple. your First Amendment right is still intact.

this has already been argued and debated at Supreme Court and it's done. the state won and I agree with the ruling completely. it's not like you are forced to have a gay pride license plate....
 
Reba said:
Ah, I'm not on Twitter. Thank you for explaining.
Click to expand...

I don't do Twitter and unable get links.what I reading is clear as mud,is issue tweets in green and colour of flag.start stripe banner be flying as usual tomorrow.if any member of public flew Union Jack I be arrested....I have keep reminding myself I in free country
 
Jiro said:
huh? wrong? no I'm not wrong. those are state-approved designs.


eh no not gonna happen. the Supreme Court has already spoken in this matter. they ruled in favor of state's right to regulate however they want it.

you are NOT free to do whatever you want with your license plate. you can only do whatever you want as per state guidelines. you pick what they offer you. to do anything else other than state's allowed personalization would be breaking the law - altering a license plate. you can also simply get a personalized frame for your license plate.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...plate-case-isnt-limited-to-confederate-flags/

basically.... the only way to get what you want is to petition your state to allow it or get a special approval from the state.

just a fun fact - Steve Jobs got a special approval from the state to have no license plate for his car.
Click to expand...
well yeahhhh they have to approve what you "spell" on your plate verifying it isnt profanity, vulgar, sexual...ect....
the designs are the same.... soooooo, look a little deeper. Ill get a confederate plate here, other states cant make me remove them when I travel.... sooooo, arguement is invalid.
 
sonocativo said:
well yeahhhh they have to approve what you "spell" on your plate verifying it isnt profanity, vulgar, sexual...ect....
the designs are the same.... soooooo, look a little deeper. Ill get a confederate plate here, other states cant make me remove them when I travel.... sooooo, arguement is invalid.
Click to expand...

what? I have absolutely no idea what you're talking about.

if your state allows a confederate flag on its plate.... and you're driving in other state... *shrug* nothing they can do about it. I'm assuming that's what you're talking about.

if not - well yea I have absolutely no idea what you're rambling on about.
 
Back
Top