Grandmother Shoots Intruder took the law into her own hands

[Reba]

No it's not smart but parniod. Look at every states in the world are dangerous, we must be careful and protect ourselves, not that Parniod Texans who shot because we are ON their property... ***goose pump*** I would not want to visit Texas with my family in the future... tooo scared. No freedom of movement and feeling for us if we stay in Texas.

That is ridiculous. You would be perfectly safe to visit Texas. Just don't take a group of men and sneak up on someone's rural property for a "surprise", and you will be fine.

 

[diehardbiker]

Question you need to ask... why were Texas have the lowest burglary in the USA while the state with most strigent gun law got high burglary rate?

I know killing is not a good way to solve the problem. However when a burglar know the chance of a household that is armed with gun, they tend to stay away from that place.

I do have plans to have handgun here in my household. Im waiting for my second kid to grow old enough to learn to respect the guns, and that is when. I have handled gun myself, even the kind of the gun used by Clint Eastwood!

There are events where locality don't allow guns to be fired and there has been case when burglar have killed victim! If that victim had gun Im sure that the suspect would have got shot and leave trail for cop to catch them. So far, that case remains unsolved!

"Outlaw the guns and the outlaws have the gun!" Whats point of outlawing the guns? If you don't understand what that phrase means... Ok Outlaw guns means making guns illegal, and "The outlaws have the gun" means crimimals have the gun anyway. So in other words the outlaws don't have any regards to laws. So hence the law is made to be broken, period.

 

[Reba]

It's not normal that a man hide in a closet... it look like he is not murder but want to steal things - money or foods because he is hungry or what? If he really is murder or volience then he would not hide in a closet but jump and threat grandaughter with weapon in the house, didn't he? He KNEW grandaughter in the house, why he didn't do that to her in first place instead of hide in a closet?

Criminals often hide until they are ready to attack. If you find a man in your closet, do you wait until he proves he doesn't want to hurt you? Would you believe him? That is not very realistic.

It look like that he only want their things, not them.

How do you know what a criminal wants?

You can't compare murder, rapist, volience with little crimes.

Do you know that many rapes and murders started out as burglaries and "little crimes"? Sometimes a criminal enters a house just to steal things but while he is in the house he finds a girl asleep and rapes her. Or someone comes home early, and the burgaler kills the home owner. Every "little crime" can quickly become a serious crime. You can't trust criminals.

I see no point to shot him because he has no weapon to hurt/threat them.

How do you know he doesn't have a weapon? He did threaten the women--he lunged at them. That means he jumped at the woman, trying to grab her.

What do you consider a weapon? Just guns? That man could have picked up a lamp and hit the woman, or grabbed a kitchen knife and stabbed her. Should she wait until he grabs her?

Quote:
Quote:
He did not run away. She yelled at him to stay down but instead he got up and came towards her.

Lessner ran from the woman's house and was found at about 3 a.m. a few houses away hiding underneath a patio deck, police said.

After.

"The man, 22-year-old Christopher Lessner, lunged for the gun..."

For hearing people, they can HEAR what kind of noises in the house before they go in their houses. My sons can hear something bang one time and say it's vase or candle stander. They know the kind of noises...

Hearing people are not telepathic. If we hear a "bang" in the next room, we need to go see what made the noise. We don't know until we go and look. We don't know what made the noise until we "search the house". One night, while we were sleeping, we heard a loud "bang" in another room. Hubby "searched the house" to find out what made the noise. It was a large picture that fell down. We didn't know that until he saw it. That is why people search the house before they call the police. Should we call the police and let them find the picture? No.

We would leave our house alone instead of search in the house if my sons hear something wrong with noises and then call police straight way and stay outside, not let intruder see us or go to neighbor or in the car, not let intruder see us and wait until police come. This is police's job.

You realize that you could be dead before you have an opportunity to get your whole family out of the house?

Do you know how long it takes the police to arrive at your house?

Do you know how quickly a criminal can kill you?

Do the math.

...stay outside or in the car to make sure intruder didnt see us.

You are deaf. Suppose you enter your house alone, and you can't hear the intruder? Will you have time to escape? Suppose his friend is hiding in your car, waiting?

You see, calling the police is NOT a perfect solution.

...Police explained me it's neighbor who called them ...

Suppose your neighbor wasn't home and didn't call the police first? What would happen?

That is a nice, smart neighbor, but you can't always depend on your neighbors. Sometimes they are not home.

So a man is hiding in your house. He is wearing a name tag that says "BURGLAR" so you absolutely know for a fact that he won't kill you?

Huh?

How do YOU know someone is "just" a Buglar and not a Killer or Rapist? They don't wear nametags.

If a man hide or steal thing in my house is a burglar -
If a man hurt me in my house is a tempt murder or rapist.

Many, many, rapists and killers hide first. That is the way they can attack people by surprise.

...I know that's no life sentence in jail for them. They will come back to us for revenage after jail is over or court etc. No, I would never do that to risk our life when they came to us one day for their revenage.

That's why you need to shoot them dead, or have a death penalty.

... I often have children on my property ...but I didn't get the gun to threat or shot them.

Most gun owners don't do that either. It is very, very rare.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

What about Burglary Prevention
http://www.crimedoctor.com/home.htm


We alway make sure our house is lock and safety before we leave. We will lose insurance rights if we are senseless to make sure our house to be safety.

 

[diehardbiker]

Im saying exact what Reba is trying to explain! She got it right all along!

I also wanted to add this, most crimimals who already spent in jail long enough learns the value of patience. That is how crimimals fine tune their criminal skills. They all know if done rush does not pay and can send them back to the cell which they don't want to happen. So hence crimials would patiently wait for right time and that time would trap you, but if you have the gun and this WILL get crooks by surprise and cause them to react and make mistakes.

 

[bigdaddyb]

Now I have a question for u, do u support this farmer by kill this man?

Yes.

NOTHING give a person the right to steal from another.

Why not ask the farmer if you could work for the chicken? Ask the farmer to share his chicken with your starving family?

Stealing the famer's chicken takes away from the farmer's ability to feed his family and is WRONG.

brianb

 

[bigdaddyb]

I thought of people who might come after midnight like pizza delivers. I've seen pizza delivers who didn't have offical looking clothes. What if someone else in your house didn't know you called for pizza and saw the big pizza boxes in the dark and thought that they were stealing stuff?

This is just plain silly.

I live in Texas and carry a gun 90% of the time. I've never been tempted to draw on my mail-man, pizza guy, friends, neighbors, Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses (we'll maybe tempted on these two ), or anyone else.

The vast majority of people in Texas both own guns and know how to use them. We have VERY few accidental shootings and almost zero mistaken identity shootings each year.

Here are a couple of facts to ponder:

1) Guns are inanimate objects. They have no more intrinsic moral value than my car keys or my shoes.

2) Almost any object can be used as a weapon. A given object is no more dangerous than the person wielding it.

People owning guns doesn't scare me. The though that some of the idiots I've encountered in my life are freely allowed to own a motor vehicle scares me way more.

Self defense is a right. The Constitution and United States Code guarantee the right to keep and bear arms, as do most state constitutions. No other posession has this level of legal protection.

brianb

 

[bigdaddyb]

I know killing is not a good way to solve the problem. However when a burglar know the chance of a household that is armed with gun, they tend to stay away from that place.

I do have plans to have handgun here in my household. Im waiting for my second kid to grow old enough to learn to respect the guns, and that is when.

This is very true. Reality is that there are some occasions when the only appropriate response is deadly force. Nothing else will end the situation. Studys have shown that this is the case hundreds of thousands of times each year in the US.

Personally, I refuse to be unprepared should I find my family under threat. I refuse to be made subject to the 'mercy' of someone who is already breaking the law.

If you're in my home uninvited, you're a threat. If you had legitimate business in my house you'd have come there when I was at home. You definately wouldn't be sneaking in during the night.


I starting teaching my boys to shoot when they each turned 7. They understand gun safety and never sneak around to try and see dad's firearms. They don't need to. All they have to do is ask and they're allowed to look at, handle, and even fire anything I own (except the .357 & .44 Magnums.....they're not strong enough to handle the recoil yet). My oldest, Connor fired a .45, AR-15 (yep folks....the dreaded 'Assault Rifle'), and 9mm for the first time at age 7. At 11 he's quite the young marksman. Shooting at the range and on family land makes for great father-son time.

My wife doesn't shoot for recreation, but is EXTREMELY accurate with a handgun. She's way more of a natural shot than I am. Anyone who puts her in a self-defense situation can 'call off Christmas'.

Here's the kicker. We're not some scary, ultra-whatever, white supremacist, radical, paranoid group of people. We just take responsibility for our own safety and well-being.

brianb

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Criminals often hide until they are ready to attack. If you find a man in your closet, do you wait until he proves he doesn't want to hurt you? Would you believe him? That is not very realistic.

Like what I said before that I would not search to find where he is hide. All what I do is stay outside to let polices take care of their job. This is a safety.

How do you know what a criminal wants?

Why hide because he knows already that someone is in home before he break in?

It would be different story if he knows nobody are home until he heard someone key to open the door .........

Do you know that many rapes and murders started out as burglaries and "little crimes"? Sometimes a criminal enters a house just to steal things but while he is in the house he finds a girl asleep and rapes her. Or someone comes home early, and the burgaler kills the home owner. Every "little crime" can quickly become a serious crime. You can't trust criminals.

I thought we are talking here about Granny?

How do you know he doesn't have a weapon? He did threaten the women--he lunged at them. That means he jumped at the woman, trying to grab her.

What do you consider a weapon? Just guns? That man could have picked up a lamp and hit the woman, or grabbed a kitchen knife and stabbed her. Should she wait until he grabs her?.

He did not run away. She yelled at him to stay down but instead he got up and came towards her.

She should not searched to find him in first place. I would not risk my life to search to find him in my house but stay at outside and call the police... What I doing is protect myself instead of risk my life for searched in the house. What she doing is unprofessional because it could risk her life to try to find him.

Hearing people are not telepathic. If we hear a "bang" in the next room, we need to go see what made the noise. We don't know until we go and look. We don't know what made the noise until we "search the house". One night, while we were sleeping, we heard a loud "bang" in another room. Hubby "searched the house" to find out what made the noise. It was a large picture that fell down. We didn't know that until he saw it. That is why people search the house before they call the police. Should we call the police and let them find the picture? No.

This is your risk. I would not do that what you & your hubby did. I know from police information once a month on TV. The police warned that we should NOT searched anywhere when you suspect the noise when you are sleeping but lock bedroom and then call police straight way..No matter what. If you have family then lock their and your doors because your & family life are more value than worry about value in the houses . This is safety. We all were taught to call police first and let them doing their job to search our houses, NEVER search to find them ourselves.

You realize that you could be dead before you have an opportunity to get your whole family out of the house?

Yes, that´s why I leave police to take care of their job.

Do you know how long it takes the police to arrive at your house?

Fast as they can...only 2 to 3 minutes to arrive... because I know from my neighbor... It´s their duty to do STRAIGHT WAY after receive the call.

Do you know how quickly a criminal can kill you?

Do the math.

Like what I say before that I would stay outside and let police do their jobs to search my house. This is Safety.

You are deaf. Suppose you enter your house alone, and you can't hear the intruder? Will you have time to escape? Suppose his friend is hiding in your car, waiting?

What do with my deafness? For your information, I can defend myself. I have pets who can hear. My cats are helpful when they heard someone open the door from outside.
I would stay outside if I notice something different movement in my house because I alway make sure the door of mud-room shut and doll stand behide door of mud-room before I leave and then shut and lock front door. We (deaf) were trained how to protect ourselves in positive way.
We have a friend who lives in big city. She & her husband came home from day outing and started to notice when she was about key to open the door but it was unlock. They knew straight way something is not okay and ran to neighbor quickly and call the police. They came quickly as they can and searched their apartment and found that someone break in and stole their things and money, debit card, etc. Police call department to lock their debit card & PIN number.

You see, calling the police is NOT a perfect solution.

I beleive they would come quickly as they can only if you ask them for the help. It´s too late for police if you search to find in your house before call police.

Suppose your neighbor wasn't home and didn't call the police first? What would happen?

That is a nice, smart neighbor, but you can't always depend on your neighbors. Sometimes they are not home.

We live same house since 1989 with no crimes around... *knock on the wood*
We never press to open our automaic gate to let them go in my property. We look at kitchen window and will know who they are and then walked to my gate and let everyone sees me to talk with Salemen, JW, etc. etc. etc. I listen what they show me something then I thank them in polite way that I´m not interesting and then go back to my door... I do like that for many years but I do not expect my neigbor call police but I appreciate it very much what she doing is SAFETY. It´s nice thought of her. I would do the same if I see someone in her house.., not just her but other neighbors, too. We help each other.

Until happened last year... A young man did nothing to me but wait for me to open the gate but I walk to him instead of open my gate for him. He show his respect instead of repeat to tell me to open the gate please and then spoke something on the same time as police car came. He respected police when they asked him to go police station with them. He followed them to there...
My neighbor and I would be request to make our statement by police if he REALLY is a crime but they didn´t. It look like he convinced police at last that he is not crime. Anyway, it´s not important but I´m still grateful what my neighbor doing is our safety.

How do YOU know someone is "just" a Buglar and not a Killer or Rapist? They don't wear nametags.

Again, I would risk my life to search to find him in a closet but stay outside to let polices to take care of their job.

Many, many, rapists and killers hide first. That is the way they can attack people by surprise.

Only if nobody are home until they heard someone key to open the door then hide to prepare something. But Grandaughter was READY in home before he break in...

That's why you need to shoot them dead, or have a death penalty.

No, I would not do that. I don´t have gun in my household because I dont like it. I would feel guilty rest of life if I do that because I know that they are only little crimes... I would not search to find him and shot him... A man, Granny shoot is survived. I´m not surprised that he will go back to her one day as revenage. I would not risk my life for my family because of that... Noooo... It would be different story if they are tempt rapist and tempt murder...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That is ridiculous. You would be perfectly safe to visit Texas. Just don't take a group of men and sneak up on someone's rural property for a "surprise", and you will be fine.

For your information, my friend and few mates doesn´t "sneak" property but walk straight to door normal like everyone here in Germany. WHAT! penatly fine because they only made their surprised visit... wow....

Here in Germany, no... we find wonderful that someone made their surprise visit to see us...

 

[bigdaddyb]

Yes, that´s why I leave police to take care of their job.

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone any day.

You can question all you want, but people here in TX refuse to be victims.

I'm curious to see what you think this fellow did wrong.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111805dnmetshooting.6c68f8f1.html

If prompted to log in, use packing@packing.org as the ID and packing as the password.

The assailant in this instance was committing a felony. Here in TX, pointing a gun at someone outside of a self-defense situation is assault with a deadly weapon. Regardless of what anyone thinks, at least two innocent people went home safe and our crowded courts won't be forced to waste time on the dirtbag killed in this story.

brianb

 

[Liebling:-)))]

A gun in the hand is better than a cop on the phone any day.

You can question all you want, but people here in TX refuse to be victims.

I'm curious to see what you think this fellow did wrong.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/latestnews/stories/111805dnmetshooting.6c68f8f1.html

If prompted to log in, use packing@packing.org as the ID and packing as the password.

The assailant in this instance was committing a felony. Here in TX, pointing a gun at someone outside of a self-defense situation is assault with a deadly weapon. Regardless of what anyone thinks, at least two innocent people went home safe and our crowded courts won't be forced to waste time on the dirtbag killed in this story.

brianb

You are Texan. I would love to ask you questions... I will soon

I read your link and agree what the former employee did wrong and bad but your link didn´t say anything enough the reason why he shoot his former boss? It sound that it something do with revenage but what reason? I need his side why he shoot his former boss for? Yes, he did very bad but what´s the reason?

 

[Tousi]

Way ta go Bigdaddy!

 

[Reba]

I thought we are talking here about Granny?

This includes the Granny. She knew that anyone hiding in a closet, especially a man, could be hiding because he wants to rape or kill someone. That is very common.

I'll ask again: How do you know he doesn't have a weapon? ... What do you consider a weapon? Just guns?

This is your risk. I would not do that what you & your hubby did. I know from police information once a month on TV. The police warned that we should NOT searched anywhere when you suspect the noise when you are sleeping but lock bedroom and then call police straight way...No matter what.

You call the police every time something makes a noise?

If you have family then lock their and your doors because your & family life are more value than worry about value in the houses.

If you are in your bedroom, and your kids are in their rooms, and the noise was in the hallway, how do you do that without going out to the hallway to check on the noise? What if you hear someone attacking your kids? Do you just wait for the police?

Reba: You realize that you could be dead before you have an opportunity to get your whole family out of the house?

Liebling: Yes, that´s why I leave police to take care of their job.

Sorry, I guess you didn't understand my question.
Your whole family could be killed BEFORE you have time to escape the house and call the police.

Reba: Do you know how long it takes the police to arrive at your house?

Liebling: Fast as they can...only 2 to 3 minutes to arrive... because I know from my neighbor... It´s their duty to do STRAIGHT WAY after receive the call.

You would be dead. It only takes one second to shoot you. Maybe one minute to stab you or knock you out. Two minutes is too long.

Like what I say before that I would stay outside and let police do their jobs to search my house. This is Safety.

A criminal can shoot and kill you BEFORE you go outside. That is NOT safety.

What do with my deafness? For your information, I can defend myself.

I believe that deaf people CAN defend themselves. That is not my point. I meant that you can't always hear someone hiding or sneaking up on you.

I am curious; since you don't believe in guns, if someone attacks you in your home, and you are alone, how do you defend yourself? That is, what method do you use?

I would stay outside if I notice something different movement in my house because I alway make sure the door of mud-room shut and doll stand behide door of mud-room before I leave and then shut and lock front door.

That is great IF you are entering your home. But suppose you are already home, sitting at your computer, and someone breaks into your house. What do you do?

We live same house since 1989 with no crimes around... *knock on the wood*

That is what many victims say.

Until happened last year... A young man did nothing to me but wait for me to open the gate but I walk to him instead of open my gate for him. He show his respect instead of repeat to tell me to open the gate please and then spoke something on the same time as police car came. He respected police when they asked him to go police station with them. He followed them to there...

Unfortunately, real criminals are not respectful.

 

[Reba]

BTW, I do believe in calling the police. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I don't call them. In fact, I called the police last night. Not to my home, but to the location where I had just finished an assignment.

 

[bigdaddyb]

You are Texan. I would love to ask you questions... I will soon

I read your link and agree what the former employee did wrong and bad but your link didn´t say anything enough the reason why he shoot his former boss? It sound that it something do with revenage but what reason? I need his side why he shoot his former boss for? Yes, he did very bad but what´s the reason?

I'll gladly answer any questions you have. I'm interested in giving an accurate portrayal of how we live here. I have no particular axe to grind.

What does it matter why the former employee came back and threatened to harm his former boss and co-workers. NOTHING justifies this kind of behavior. NOTHING makes it excusable.

The use of deadly force is only defensable when it seeks to prevent the serious injury or death of a person who is not commiting a crime. Pointing a gun at someone is considered the 'threat of deadly force' under Texas law, and under the laws of most states here in the U.S. Most states also allow the treat of deadly force to be repelled by the use of deadly force. It's not just a Texas thing. The vast majority of states have laws similar to Texas in this case.

This person maliciously endangered the lives of his former co-workers and boss. He did it with 'malice aforethought'. It is unjustifyable, reguardless of any 'reason' that can be applied to his actions. His life and health were not in jeopardy. He was allowed to leave the site in peace and then returned with a weapon and threatened deadly force against his former employer.

I'm curious as to what circumstances could make the assailant's actions justifyable Liebling?

brianb

 

[bigdaddyb]

BTW, I do believe in calling the police. I don't want anyone to get the impression that I don't call them. In fact, I called the police last night. Not to my home, but to the location where I had just finished an assignment.

Same here. Trust me. I don't go looking for trouble. I hope I NEVER have to use my sidearm in self defense. I'd much rather my weapon be fired at pieces of paper at the range than at another human. It doesn't mean that I won't. It means that it is my hope and prayer that I'm never put into a situation where it becomes a justifyable option.

I call the cops. I'm about as pro cop as anyone you'll meet. I'm the Chairman of the Police and Fire Civil Service Commission in my town. This is an unpaid position. I do it to make working conditions better for our police and fire.

If my family's safety isn't in immenant danger, or I can find another way to remove my family from harm's way, I'm leaving my firearm on my hip. Given no other viable choice, I'm not afraid to defend my family with extreme violence and even lose my life in the process.

I've said it numerous times. I hope I never face that situation, but if I do, I refuse to face it unprepared.

brianb

 

[Reba]

...What does it matter why the former employee came back and threatened to harm his former boss and co-workers. NOTHING justifies this kind of behavior. NOTHING makes it excusable. ..

Right!

 

[Reba]

Same here. Trust me. I don't go looking for trouble. I hope I NEVER have to use my sidearm in self defense. I'd much rather my weapon be fired at pieces of paper at the range than at another human. It doesn't mean that I won't. It means that it is my hope and prayer that I'm never put into a situation where it becomes a justifyable option.

I call the cops. I'm about as pro cop as anyone you'll meet. I'm the Chairman of the Police and Fire Civil Service Commission in my town. This is an unpaid position. I do it to make working conditions better for our police and fire.

If my family's safety isn't in immenant danger, or I can find another way to remove my family from harm's way, I'm leaving my firearm on my hip. Given no other viable choice, I'm not afraid to defend my family with extreme violence and even lose my life in the process.

I've said it numerous times. I hope I never face that situation, but if I do, I refuse to face it unprepared.

brianb

Exactly.

I prefer paper targets and clay pigeons. Hubby fills empty milk gallons with water for his AR15 target practice. We absolutely do NOT want to shoot people. BUT we must be prepared, mentally and physically, to face the challenge if it happens.

 

[Tousi]

Posts # 55-59.....