Grandmother Shoots Intruder took the law into her own hands

[Reba]

... We call on police straight way if we see "intruder" we are not sure about are on our properties. It´s police job to do deal with "intruder".

The "granny" did that. Her granddaughter was on the phone with police at the same time that the man was attacking. There wasn't enough time to wait for the police.

I see no logical to shot them because they are on my property... They done nothing to hurt us but just on property... It would be different if they tried to hurt me...

You prefer to wait until someone stabs or shoots you first? Then what can you do? You are DEAD!

I really dont understand some of you praise Granny...

She saved the life of her granddaughter and herself. Yes, I praise that. Would you praise her if she let the criminal kill her granddaughter?

Personally, I value the lives of my family more than the life of an escaped criminal.

 

[Reba]

There're also people like people who check electric meters and United Parcel Service people who deliver packages.

They wear uniforms and carry ID cards. They don't break down doors or windows. They don't come after midnight. Use some sense.

... What about trick and treaters? This stuff could give people an excuse to kill kids.

Maybe if they show up on April 5 instead of Oct 31. Good grief, I think people expect kids to show up on Halloween!

I thought that lots of people in Texas would believe in "Thou shall not kill."

They also believe, "Thou shalt not let the bad guy kill you first."

 

[jazzy]

Do you truly know what you would do if you had a family member with you, who could be hurt, and you had a weapon?
Been there. My family had been held by guns couple times and cops do nothing for my family. I believe law should ban anyone with guns even law citizens.

I don't think you can truthfully answer that you would not, under those circumstances. I don't think any of us could say that, and I know better than to say I would not, because I probably would. In defense of family, I think most people would pull the trigger.
I[COLOR=RoyalBlue] am not one of those people. I do not believe law citizens should carry guns.[/COLOR]
But notice that she aimed for his legs. She was NOT shooting to kill--simply to make him stop coming at them.

she is lucky she did not kill him.

Here is story about a American/African man who lived in a shack and he had mouth to feed but he had no job or food to feed his children. One day He made a fatal error by stealing a neighbor's chicken out of coop because he and his family were hungry. This farmer caught him and shot and killed him. People in farmer's community cheered him for killing a thief. Later that morning he went to his church and his pastor praised him for killing a thief. They were happy to get rid of "those thieves". Now I have a question for u, do u support this farmer by kill this man?

 

[RedFox]

I thought of people who might come after midnight like pizza delivers. I've seen pizza delivers who didn't have offical looking clothes. What if someone else in your house didn't know you called for pizza and saw the big pizza boxes in the dark and thought that they were stealing stuff?

 

[Rose Immortal]

Jazzy--Two questions. If you ban guns for law-abiding citizens, and they obey it, what about the black market in guns, that criminals use to get weapons? Since this black market cannot be completely shut down (so no matter what you will do, criminals WILL still get weapons), is it fair for criminals to have weapons and law-abiding citizens to have none?

Second--only part of the fact that she didn't kill him was luck. The other part is that she was trained in how to use her weapon properly. I think gun safety and basic use courses are required in order to get a license for one.

As to the story you told, I'd have to know the answer to several questions.
--Was the thief armed?
--Did he verbally threaten the lives of the farmer and his family?
--Did he physically strike out against the farmer and his family?
--Was there time for the farmer to call the police, and if so, did he do it?
--Did the farmer warn the thief before he fired a shot?
--Was the farmer also very poor, and needed that chicken to feed his family?
--Was the farmer's intent, when he shot, to incapacitate, or to kill?

What I'm trying to determine is, was there imminent danger to the lives of the farmer and his family? And did the farmer try everything to avoid having to shoot?

 

[Reba]

she is lucky she did not kill him.

Here is story about a American/African man who lived in a shack and he had mouth to feed but he had no job or food to feed his children. One day He made a fatal error by stealing a neighbor's chicken out of coop because he and his family were hungry. This farmer caught him and shot and killed him. People in farmer's community cheered him for killing a thief. Later that morning he went to his church and his pastor praised him for killing a thief. They were happy to get rid of "those thieves". Now I have a question for u, do u support this farmer by kill this man?

I would prefer to see the whole story and source before judging.

 

[Reba]

I thought of people who might come after midnight like pizza delivers. I've seen pizza delivers who didn't have offical looking clothes. What if someone else in your house didn't know you called for pizza and saw the big pizza boxes in the dark and thought that they were stealing stuff?

All the pizza deliverers here have special lighted signs on the roofs of their cars. If they were stealing something, why would they bring boxes to the door, and ring the bell/knock on the door?

People who use guns to protect their families, homes, and businesses, do have common sense. It is usually the criminals who do not.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Liebling--This person was not simply on the lady's property running around in her yard or something; he was stealing things from her house.

That´s because he is a thief and hide closet?

How could she know that he wasn't going to hurt them when they found him?

She dont have to search to find where he is but call on police straight way.

If he want to hurt them then he would not hide closet. The link didnt mention that he have any weapon with him. He is a thief/burglar, not tempt murder. Why he ran away after shot instead of hurt her back? It sound no logical to me.

the link says:

"The woman´s grandaughter also said she heard noises from inside the house."

Why can´t grandaughter call on police if she heard noises from inside the house but wait for her Granny do something?

"At about 12.30 am Wednesday, officers responded to a 911 call of a shooting at a residence. The homeowner told police she founds someone hiding in her house and shot him in the leg."

"She had let her dogs out to go to the bathroom and noticed there were muddy footprints leading into her house"

"The woman searched her house and located him inside a closet near the front door."

"Susan Gaylord Buxton, 66 retrieved her 38 caliber handgun and searched her house. She found a man hiding in a closet, covered by a coat."

It look like that a homeowner didnt call on police first but searched house then shot and then call police... WRONG

I would do when I were in her shoes.

I noticed muddy footprints leading into my house then I would call police STRAIGHT WAY and then go and stay with neighbor OR go in my house to get my grandaughter out of my house and go to neighbor instead of searched my house and shot them and then call police...

Do you think that in that sort of situation, a person should simply accept their death, and that of a family member, with no resistance? If so, you are saying that criminals have MORE rights than property owners.

I´m not saying that criminals have more rights than property owners but I disagree with Texas´s law for allow houseowners to use guns. Murder and Rapist are different story, I can do something to protect myself against them.
Just that thief... what a Thiefs are common in the world is shoplift, burglar, etc. etc. etc. Just thief and hide the closet.. *shake the head*

RedFox--I don't think the mail person, or the people checking the meter, would be doing that in the dead of the night. Big difference.

No, what if people want to go their properties to question something unexpectly or children play - ball go to their properties... ? My friend had bad experience for received almost shot by her cousin´s husband because he and his mates are ON their property. *Oh dear*... This is very paraniod....

 

[Liebling:-)))]

My insurance agent doesn't break down a door at night, and then hide in a closet in my house.

Shot because of break in and hide in closet?... *shake the head*

One reason they don't like strangers just popping up is because so many illegal aliens cross over from the Mexican border, and attack ranchers and their property. The Texas families' lives are in danger, so they must protect themselves.

No wonder they are parniod people. They can´t compare illegal immgrations with anyone. Remember, Texas is not only one in the world... Look at illegal immgrations at EVERYWHERE, not just Texas. The people in the world CAN protect themselves without use guns because they are training how to defend themselves.

It´s no logical to me that´s because my friend & his mates didn´t break his cousin´s house but was on their property.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

You would let him kill your granddaughter?

Granddaughter is 28 year old and know how to protect herself.

 

[Mookie]

You would let him kill your granddaughter?

It is ok to shoot the mute individual who seeked for help.....

 

[Liebling:-)))]

The "granny" did that. Her granddaughter was on the phone with police at the same time that the man was attacking. There wasn't enough time to wait for the police.

Can you please show me link because I didn´t find - no attack or Granddaughter called police on the same time? All what I read 2 links is:

"The homeowner told police she found someone hiding in her house and shot him in the leg."

"She had let her dogs out to go to the bathroom and noticed there were muddy footprints leading into her house"

"The woman searched her house and located him inside a closet near the front door."

"She fired a second shot, which missed, according to police"

What should I understand? I see no mention that grandaughter call on police or attack... but I see what link says...

"He was 6 feet tall", she said. "He could have done something horrible my granddaughter and me. That´s exactly the reason you need to learn how to handle (a fireman) and keep it with you."

It sounds paraniod, that´s just because he´s tall... How do she know he´s tall before she shoot him? Because he hide in a closet, covered by a coat - likely is he sat and cover by a coat... *shake the head* He done nothing harm to them but theif and hide a closet instead of attack on them.. I would call police STRAIGHT WAY INSTEAD of searched into my house and let police do their job.

You prefer to wait until someone stabs or shoots you first? Then what can you do? You are DEAD!

I was taught by police at parent evening how to protect myself if I see tempt murder or rapist use weapons. I should calm down instead of panic... until I found something to hit them (no matter either they are injured or dead) or use any spray to hurt their eyes and then run to neighbor to call police...
Very few of Europeans use guns to protect themselves. The gun MUST be in the house, not public. We protected ouselves without use guns, that´s because we were trained how to defend ourselves. I was shock that high of Americans use guns everywhere which it´s scare... No good for the children to see their parents own guns... No no no... I would not teach or show my children to shot any animal... No wonder why the children learns from their parents... no no no...

She saved the life of her granddaughter and herself. Yes, I praise that. Would you praise her if she let the criminal kill her granddaughter?

Link didnt mention anything that he attack on them or use weapon to threat them but just thief and hide in a closet. If he´s really tempt murder then he would not hide in a closet but use weapon to threat grandaughter but he didn´t. Just searched into her house and find him then shot his leg... he ranaway with injured leg instead of hurt her back... I see no logical...

Grandaughter is 28 years old and CAN protect herself if she is alone in the house...

Personally, I value the lives of my family more than the life of an escaped criminal.

Yes that´s right I would do the same BUT the criminal will go back to you & your family for the revenage one day after they came out of jail because you use weapon to shot them or whatever that they didnt have weapon to threat you or tempt to kill you... I know it´s very scary when I see someone in my house but I won´t let them to see me... I do is calm down and then call police straight way and stay where I am until police are here and doing their job to search my house.... I was taught to not do that because they didnt done to hurt me... Remember that thief/burgarly stay in jail for few years, not life sentence.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

They wear uniforms and carry ID cards. They don't break down doors or windows. They don't come after midnight. Use some sense.

It makes no difference... See my story about my friend in my previous post. My friend didnt break in the house or anything but on their property.

Maybe if they show up on April 5 instead of Oct 31. Good grief, I think people expect kids to show up on Halloween!

Maybe the children play with balls but the balls go to house property that the children have to go to pick the ball up... shot them because they are ON their property to pick the ball? ... :roll:

They also believe, "Thou shalt not let the bad guy kill you first."

Parniod

Jazzy
she is lucky she did not kill him.

Agreed but he will come back to her some day for revenage for hurt his leg because he dont have weapon to threat her and grandaughter. That´s why I am against gun but let police doing their job.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Jazzy

Here is story about a American/African man who lived in a shack and he had mouth to feed but he had no job or food to feed his children. One day He made a fatal error by stealing a neighbor's chicken out of coop because he and his family were hungry. This farmer caught him and shot and killed him. People in farmer's community cheered him for killing a thief. Later that morning he went to his church and his pastor praised him for killing a thief. They were happy to get rid of "those thieves". Now I have a question for u, do u support this farmer by kill this man?

***goose pump*** he have to kill by farmer because he stole chicken to feed his hungry family... oh dear!

Jazzy--Two questions. If you ban guns for law-abiding citizens, and they obey it, what about the black market in guns, that criminals use to get weapons? Since this black market cannot be completely shut down (so no matter what you will do, criminals WILL still get weapons), is it fair for criminals to have weapons and law-abiding citizens to have none?

Second--only part of the fact that she didn't kill him was luck. The other part is that she was trained in how to use her weapon properly. I think gun safety and basic use courses are required in order to get a license for one.

Disagree - I dont think gun would not do anything to protect yourself but you will receive hurt by them in return because they are not murder or rapist but thief/burgarly... They will hurt you in return

As to the story you told, I'd have to know the answer to several questions.
--Was the thief armed?

I know you question jazzy about farmer but I has to take your quote for an example:
That´s exactly what I said in my previous post that Granny is wrong to shot intruder because he dont have weapons but hide in a closet..

--Did he verbally threaten the lives of the farmer and his family?

link says that intruder didnt threaten Granny and her Grandaughter but thief and hide in a closet.

--Did he physically strike out against the farmer and his family?

The intruder did not do that to Granny and Grandaughter.

--Was there time for the farmer to call the police, and if so, did he do it?

Granny or Grandaughter didnt call police until Granny found him in a closet then shot then call the police.

--Did the farmer warn the thief before he fired a shot?

Did Granny or Grandaughter warn the thief?

--Was the farmer also very poor, and needed that chicken to feed his family?

Poor? It look not poor to me because he can afford to buy gun. Intruder who steal things are poor and need money badly can´t afford to buy gun.

This is an exactly example what I took your quote for Granny and intruder.

 

[jazzy]

Jazzy--Two questions. If you ban guns for law-abiding citizens, and they obey it, what about the black market in guns, that criminals use to get weapons? Since this black market cannot be completely shut down (so no matter what you will do, criminals WILL still get weapons), is it fair for criminals to have weapons and law-abiding citizens to have none?

It is not for me to tell citizen they have right to own guns etc but it is wrong for anyone to cheer this people when they shot them. They are no different from bad people.

Second--only part of the fact that she didn't kill him was luck. The other part is that she was trained in how to use her weapon properly. I think gun safety and basic use courses are required in order to get a license for one.
[Police do kill innocnet people by accident even they are trained in this field. ( there was a toddler who was shot in head by the swat team early this year, they were professional and they do made mistakes when they trigged the guns) She would have servered his artery in his leg and bleed to death. I still think she has no right to shoot this thief. She would have put the alarm in her apt to scare thief away. But instead she owns a gun with intend to shoot anyone.

As to the story you told, I'd have to know [/COLOR] the answer to several questions.
--Was the thief armed? Nope, he had nothing on him.
--Did he verbally threaten the lives of the farmer and his family? Nope he was too far away from farmer's house.
--Did he physically strike out against the farmer and his family? nope he simple took the chicken out of the coop.
--Was there time for the farmer to call the police, and if so, did he do it? At that time they do not have a police esp in very small town. Some placestill do not have police in their towns-

-Did the farmer warn the thief before he fired a shot? I don't know I was not there nor anyone was there except himself and this thief.
--Was the farmer also very poor, and needed that chicken to feed his family? Not if the farmer had a land and house to live in with lot of foods to grow and so was my grandfather and his family lived next door to eachother. . My grandparents never own the guns and they would let them steal their chickens and eggs instead of shoot and kill them. Because they knew those people whom lived in the shack with no plumber or light to run. Not too far from them.
--Was the farmer's intent, when he shot, to incapacitate, or to kill? would have to say this farmer does do what everyone would do, hate the thief to protect his property. Intent to shoot with harm. I never met him but my mother knew him.

What I'm trying to determine is, was there imminent danger to the lives of the farmer and his family? And did the farmer try everything to avoid having to shoot?

I doubt it the way I heard from my mother. the farmer was never in danger in first place.. It was back in old day when everyone had guns intend to shoot anyone who cross on their property Still do in someplace.[/

 

[jazzy]

I would prefer to see the whole story and source before judging.

Do u want my mother's story and print here? You would not like to hear what she wrote. It happened in small town in deep south back in 40's. You won't find it in the newspaper or anywhere cuz it was more alike shshshs, don't let outsiders knew about it.

 

[Reba]

...If he want to hurt them then he would not hide closet.

Are you kidding?!

The link didnt mention that he have any weapon with him. He is a thief/burglar, not tempt murder. Why he ran away after shot instead of hurt her back? It sound no logical to me.

Criminals are NOT logical; you never know what they will do next. That is the whole point. Would you trust a criminal?

He did not run away. She yelled at him to stay down but instead he got up and came towards her.

"The man, 22-year-old Christopher Lessner, lunged for the gun..."

That seems threatening to me.

Why can´t grandaughter call on police if she heard noises from inside the house but wait for her Granny do something?

Do you call the police every time someone in your family hears a noise? Every time a picture falls off the wall, or the cat knocks over a vase? No, you check it out first, and then call the police if it seems dangerous.

I would do when I were in her shoes.

I noticed muddy footprints leading into my house then I would call police STRAIGHT WAY and then go and stay with neighbor OR go in my house to get my grandaughter out of my house and go to neighbor instead of searched my house and shot them and then call police...

And what if the man attacked you before you could get you and your granddaughter out of the house? What if you don't know if he has a friend waiting to attack you outside? What is you don't have neighbors near by?

I´m not saying that criminals have more rights than property owners but I disagree with Texas´s law for allow houseowners to use guns. Murder and Rapist are different story, I can do something to protect myself against them.
Just that thief... what a Thiefs are common in the world is shoplift, burglar, etc. etc. etc. Just thief and hide the closet.. *shake the head*

So a man is hiding in your house. He is wearing a name tag that says "BURGLAR" so you absolutely know for a fact that he won't kill you? Huh?

No, what if people want to go their properties to question something unexpectly or children play - ball go to their properties... ?

They shouldn't do it in a sneaky way, obviously.

My friend had bad experience for received almost shot by her cousin´s husband because he and his mates are ON their property. *Oh dear*... This is very paraniod...

No, it is very smart. If you live in a dangerous area, you MUST be careful and protected.

 

[Reba]

Do u want my mother's story and print here? You would not like to hear what she wrote. It happened in small town in deep south back in 40's. You won't find it in the newspaper or anywhere cuz it was more alike shshshs, don't let outsiders knew about it.

Why wouldn't I want to hear what she wrote? I would like to hear all the facts.

 

[Reba]

-Did the farmer warn the thief before he fired a shot? I don't know I was not there nor anyone was there except himself and this thief.

Ah, that's the problem with the story. We really don't have all the facts.

.. . My grandparents never own the guns and they would let them steal their chickens and eggs instead of shoot and kill them. Because they knew those people whom lived in the shack with no plumber or light to run. Not too far from them.

Interesting. If they knew about the poor family's situation, and they didn't mind losing some chickens and eggs, why didn't they just offer to give them some instead of waiting for the father to become so desperate that he had to steal them?

... It was back in old day when everyone had guns intend to shoot anyone who cross on their property...

So the thief knew that there was a possibility that he would be shot?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Are you kidding?!

Yes, why?

It's not normal that a man hide in a closet... it look like he is not murder but want to steal things - money or foods because he is hungry or what? If he really is murder or volience then he would not hide in a closet but jump and threat grandaughter with weapon in the house, didn't he? He KNEW grandaughter in the house, why he didn't do that to her in first place instead of hide in a closet?

It look like that he only want their things, not them.

Criminals are NOT logical;

Yes, they doing is wrong.

you never know what they will do next.

You can't compare murder, rapist, volience with little crimes.

That is the whole point. Would you trust a criminal?

I see no point to shot him because he has no weapon to hurt/threat them.

He did not run away. She yelled at him to stay down but instead he got up and came towards her.

Yes he is
Check those link:

Lessner ran from the woman's house and was found at about 3 a.m. a few houses away hiding underneath a patio deck, police said.

Reba
"The man, 22-year-old Christopher Lessner, lunged for the gun..."

That seems threatening to me.

And she should not "searched" in her house until she found him in a closet in first place. I would not do that to risk my life but wait for police to take care of my house.

Do you call the police every time someone in your family hears a noise? Every time a picture falls off the wall, or the cat knocks over a vase? No, you check it out first, and then call the police if it seems dangerous.

Don't be exaggerate.

I would say YES. I was taught by police to be safety because I know nobody in our house but 4 of us.

No, it's wrong to check first... You will be dead or injury if you check first before call the police

For hearing people, they can HEAR what kind of noises in the house before they go in their houses. My sons can hear something bang one time and say it's vase or candle stander. They know the kind of noises... We would leave our house alone instead of search in the house if my sons hear something wrong with noises and then call police straight way and stay outside, not let intruder see us or go to neighbor or in the car, not let intruder see us and wait until police come. This is police's job.

And what if the man attacked you before you could get you and your granddaughter out of the house? What if you don't know if he has a friend waiting to attack you outside? What is you don't have neighbors near by?

Call police STRAIGHT WAY if I am doubt to go in my house... This is safety. Go to neighbor or stay outside or in the car to make sure intruder didnt see us.

I remember the happened of last year, a man went around my neighbor's house ask for us. My neighbor is not stupid and ask him to tell her what's my last name. (I don't have name in my mail box). He changed his subject and said that we are not home because I called him to come over. My neighbor told him to try again because she know I'm in home. A man thanked her and leave. My neighbor called police STRAIGHT WAY. I saw a man at my neighbor from my window and thought it's saleman. Ha Ha I said to myself because most salemen come over every houses for comercial etc. etc. I saw a man walked to my gate and look for my bell ring (I have automaic gate to let anyone go in my property)... I answered the door and walk to the gate to check with him as same time as police car came. Police asked me if I'm okay. I was like to say okay and check with man and his ID card then question him why he is here... A man tried to convince police that he's saleman but it shown no proof that he's a saleman. Police told him to go police station with him. I asked Police what's wrong? Police explained me it's neighbor who called them and teach me to demand ID card from them in the future if they are really Salemen or not. I was like Okay and thank Police for their care. They told me that they are only doing their job. I went to check with my neighbor. She said she has no good feeling about him that why she called Police. I hug her and thank her for that, no matter what... I would do the same if I suspect people. I asked my neighbor why a man do nothing to her but me? She said because her husband is around, that's why. She beleive that a man would do something to her IF she is alone but he saw her husband around and make an excuse to ask for me.

My neighbor and I did not shot him because of this...

So a man is hiding in your house. He is wearing a name tag that says "BURGLAR" so you absolutely know for a fact that he won't kill you? Huh?

Huh? this is a negative question.

If a man hide or steal thing in my house is a burglar -
If a man hurt me in my house is a tempt murder or rapist.

I would leave my house straight way if I saw a man somewhere in my house instead of searched and shot him. I rather to leave than shot him. I would not risk my family life for shot him BECAUSE I know that's no life sentence in jail for them. They will come back to us for revenage after jail is over or court etc. No, I would never do that to risk our life when they came to us one day for their revenage.

They shouldn't do it in a sneaky way, obviously.

Then I consider houseowners as murder or tempt murder because they are only on their property and do nothing but visit them or get ball. I would call them if they stated police that they are fear the children might attack them blah blah... I often have children on my property - my electricty gate is open free at most afternoons for anyone go in for reasons but I didn't get the gun to threat or shot them.

No, it is very smart. If you live in a dangerous area, you MUST be careful and protected.

No it's not smart but parniod. Look at every states in the world are dangerous, we must be careful and protect ourselves, not that Parniod Texans who shot because we are ON their property... ***goose pump*** I would not want to visit Texas with my family in the future... tooo scared. No freedom of movement and feeling for us if we stay in Texas. We might be shot for visit on wrong place where it belong to their property... ***goose pump*** I scare for my family's safety if we are in Texas... No good holiday for us... No Thank to Texas. I thank my friend for warn what he had a bad experience. He haven't visit Texas anymore since his last visit in 1983. It got him bad nightmare sometimes.

Excuse me for say this... I'm sorry if you are offence by my post, Texans ADers.