God Versus Satan

[Liebling:-)))]

Lieblin' --

Did you read my post about HOW Jesus died ?

Is what you are talking about?

http://www.alldeaf.com/761509-post567.html

I don´t see where you mentioned about Jesus? Forgive me for ignore your post... I beleive I did answered your post? Can you provide a link where you want me to answer if those post, I provided is not what you want to know my answer.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Why you think God interferes? Does intervene more accurately way of saying? About the govrnment, God is the leader above all and control. During Samuel times, jewish was complaining why don't they have king like every other country. When jewish have God in control, God gave them no problem, now, want a king like everyone else, God warned them, that they will suffer under their rules and will not have what they had from God, people ok'd with it. What happen? they suffer loss, by king taking anything they want. But when Saul was the king, he did very evil in the eyes of God, so God chosen David to be king. But since Saul still a king in his(david's) early in life, knowing can't harm Saul, bec it is God's anointing, meaning still under God's control. God is above gvtmnt. Saying that is between Moses and Pharoah, not God, that is contradiction and doesn't make sense at all.

You said that God is the leader.. .Okay,

you and beleivers often says that God still exist... Okay,

You said that God intervene, not inference... Okay,

You know that some governments are bad people, but why can´t the God do something for the people against bad governments then when he still exist but God didn´t. If he exist then he is our leader, not Government... Why can´t he? It shows that God let governments do what they wants without his inference or intervene. A lot of people pray and pray and pray.... no helps... Alot of people from poor countries pray, pray, pray, pray for foods and drink... they starved to death... ???????

Oh yes, Mose and Pharaoh are the leader (I would say "government", "King", "leader" or whatever). This is between them...

 

[Liebling:-)))]

I know....like I said in my previous post that I can't twist their arms to follow my God. But, it's also the Christians' responsibility to show them the Truth through the scriptures. Like for example : God says that it's not right to worship the images such as Virgin Mary via Jesus. I know many Catholic churches have their own Virgin Mary and Jesus statues. And, also God didn't say about purgation ( sp ? ) in hell. There are so many things that sometimes Catholic people don't know.

I read one young Catholic boy who wept over his mother's death. She called him to come to see her before she passed away. He did come to see her. She was very ill and lay in bed at Catholic Institution. She begged his son to pray to Virgin Mary for her, because she told him that Virgin Mary don't answer to her prayer. She begged to get well. That young boy did his best all he could. She complaint to his son that she was seein' somethin' strange in her room and asked for someone to move her to another room. The priest gave a permission for her to move to another room -- in hopin' that she will have a peace in spirit. That ugly and frightened " evil " spirits followed her to another room. She screamed to her son, " They are takin' me to the lake of fire ! They are takin' me to the lake of fire ! " over and over. She told him that she saw people in the lake of fire. She screamed until her voice started fadin' away ... that was when the ugly and frightened " evil " spirits took her soul out of her body. Her son begged his own mother to come back ! Her body started frozen like her face showed a " frightened " facial expression, leavin' her mouth open.

That boy saw the priest standin' besided his mother's bed and do nothin'. He didn't help his mother to get well. So, that boy determined to find his own Bible and hide it in his room. Every night, he read the Bible - he found Jesus and accepted Him as his personal Saviour. He promised his mother that he will find the T R U T H himself. So, he did. As an adult, he became a priest and warned Cathlolic people about the Vatican. The Vatican popes were tryin' to kill him where ever that man traveled to preach the Words of God. He became famous throughout the world. He died due to poisonous in his mouth from the dentist in several years later. He knew that the dentist attempted to poison him, but God held his death until his mission was completed.

Those sad story got me bump goose....

Remember that many believers worship different religions and thought their religions are true as God... Like what I say before that how do we know which is correct...?

As my Roman Catholic knowledge, where I was raised... I do not deny your story and description about RC here because I accept that it´s true. Yes, I was taught by Roman Catholic Grandparents but I know nothing about scriptures - no even know what it is about... until JW people showed me what scriptures about and taught me. JW people told me that RC bibles do have scriptures but they hide it and believe they are God... JW people agreed that we have different bibical interpretation. I travel everywhere to half world and learn their different beliefs and cultures.... I wake up and open my mind..... and then I registered the forum here and learn more about different beliefs and learn more scriptures... I saw the problem is different bibical interpretation that´s why the people choose kind of religions to become what they are...

Accord your story, how do mother know those religion she thought is real, not true...? Remember, a lot of people like us are innoncent and are being brainwashed by kind of religions and thought our beliefs are true... which is sad...but why go hell when the people thought their beliefs are true... how do they know that their belief are not true... Really sad?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Yeah, I "got it". I only served in the Navy for 24 years, and Hubby served in the Navy for 21 years, so we don't know as much about military life, training, and philosophy as a sand crab desk jockey in Germany.

Where did you go to boot camp? Which military specialist training did you get? When did you serve on a ship or at a remote overseas location? How long were you separated from your family? What uniform did you wear? Who did you salute? When did you study the UCMJ? What oath did you take? Where did you live in base housing or a barracks? When was your last seabag inspection, PRT or GMT?

Give me a break. :roll:

Yes I know what kind of jobs what they obligate to do... So?

I´m bit confused about "served for 24 years?" and want to double check and ask you to correct my confusion... I remember that you said other threads that you quitted to serve in the Navy as soon as you are married and have a baby at age 20. Your hubby quit to serve in the Navy to become self-employer... Right? What you both did belongs past... I am STILL work for them and STILL see them everyday.

Do what "same"?

Please use your common sense... so I get other example... See my post #560... I am waiting for your reply to this but you denied to answer it and answer part of my post accord #560...

Sure, a lot of Germans sacrificed their life for made an illegal to hide jews from Nazi since they know Nazi's law/rule but they choose to disobey Nazi's rule/law and have to punish to death. It's same thing what the God did to the people.

There's nothing to "deny". I don't know what you're all excited about.

Excited? You kept denied that God killed the people until you said yourself that those killings as punishment are acceptance accord your belief... I accept with no criticize your belief... I said no more and end of discussion.

Promise?

Is the debate forbidden?

 

[Maria]

Is what you are talking about?

http://www.alldeaf.com/761509-post567.html

I don´t see where you mentioned about Jesus? Forgive me for ignore your post... I beleive I did answered your post? Can you provide a link where you want me to answer if those post, I provided is not what you want to know my answer.

No, not this one. Here's a copy of my post from the page 18.
My post is # 525.

http://www.alldeaf.com/christianity-religion-spiritual-other-beliefs/40401-god-versus-satan-18.html

I forgive you. No problem. Thanks for respondin'.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

How is it "hypocritical"?

Please use common sense.

Jesus sacrificed His life for all mankind. He was not suicidal. Correct.

Okay, I already accept in my previous posts that Jesus scarificed his life, not suicidal.

I guess you weren't taught everything about WWII when you went to school. Do you know about Corrie ten Boom?

Corrie ten Boom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Do you know about the righteous Gentiles?

Righteous Among the Nations - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Let you know that I do not ignore your 2 links... (I did read but not everything - I will read them tonight or next week again when I have time... and will let you know what I think of your links because I´m interesting about the history but I have a lot to do in my real life... My British family come over tomorrow).

Oh yes I was being taught at school about WWII etc but it doesn´t mean that I know everything to 100%.. .Right? Do you know everything to 100% about WWII ?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

No, not this one. Here's a copy of my post from the page 18.
My post is # 525.

http://www.alldeaf.com/christianity-religion-spiritual-other-beliefs/40401-god-versus-satan-18.html

I forgive you. No problem. Thanks for respondin'.

Ohhhh I got it... Forgive me for overlook it... I was busy to debate with ADers...

I will read your post later... (see my response post to Reba about my British family´s visit tomorrow)... I will try to answer your post tonight... Your post will be first before Reba´s 2 links because you posted before her...


Maria, I want to say that you look good on the avator... you look young... wow!

 

[Throwstones]

Ahhh I got it... I'm unsure about his post... Martyr... Thank you for answer my question.

Liebling.. yes that is correct spelling.. I am sorry for not response to you so quickly!

 

[Maria]

Ohhhh I got it... Forgive me for overlook it... I was busy to debate with ADers...

I will read your post later... (see my response post to Reba about my British family´s visit tomorrow)... I will try to answer your post tonight... Your post will be first before Reba´s 2 links because you posted before her...


Maria, I want to say that you look good on the avator... you look young... wow!

No problem. About my avatar :

 

[christlovedeaf]

You said that God is the leader.. .Okay,

you and beleivers often says that God still exist... Okay,

You said that God intervene, not inference... Okay,

You know that some governments are bad people, but why can´t the God do something for the people against bad governments then when he still exist but God didn´t. If he exist then he is our leader, not Government... Why can´t he? It shows that God let governments do what they wants without his inference or intervene. A lot of people pray and pray and pray.... no helps... Alot of people from poor countries pray, pray, pray, pray for foods and drink... they starved to death... ???????

Oh yes, Mose and Pharaoh are the leader (I would say "government", "King", "leader" or whatever). This is between them...

Somewhere in the OT, the verse said God anointed good and evil rulers, that mean that people who vote for their leader is where God annointed. In Book of Romans says, we must obey the gvmnt. Did you know Paul suffered under Nero. Nero was very evil king. So what happen to Paul, he was beheaded. Now, like religious leaders rebuke Paul, Peter, Stephen and etc for preaching the Gospel, did they silence? NOPE, they continue to preach the gospel. Is it bad? Nope. Like King David says, why does evil people have good life and good people suffer? God said, it will come to them, evil people will suffer greatly (my way of saying as in simple phrase). Outcome will happen later, that is God will judge those who were leaders, whatever the leader does to people, that where rulers will either bless or suffer base on how rulers treating people. Bec being a higher position is very dangerous job, why? If leaders, pastors, boss, or any other position will suffer horribly if decieve or mistreating people, same as of teachers, scientist or etc.

 

[Reba]

...I´m bit confused about "served for 24 years?" and want to double check and ask you to correct my confusion... I remember that you said other threads that you quitted to serve in the Navy as soon as you are married and have a baby at age 20.

Not correct.

I was on active duty for seven years, age 19 years to 26. I was married at age 20 and my daughter was born when I was 22, all while I was on active duty. I transferred from active duty status to active drilling reserve status for 17 years. I retired from the Navy after 24 years total.

Your hubby quit to serve in the Navy to become self-employer... Right? What you both did belongs past... I am STILL work for them and STILL see them everyday.

No, he didn't "quit". He served a full active duty career of 21 years in the Navy. He retired, and then started his own business.

... I am waiting for your reply to this but you denied to answer it and answer part of my post accord #560...

Excuse me; I didn't know I was required to respond to every post. I better quit my day job and hop to it.

Sure, a lot of Germans sacrificed their life for made an illegal to hide jews from Nazi since they know Nazi's law/rule but they choose to disobey Nazi's rule/law and have to punish to death. It's same thing what the God did to the people.

Huh? Are you comparing God to Nazis? Where is that coming from?

... I said no more and end of discussion.

... Is the debate forbidden?

You said "end of discussion", not me.

 

[Reba]

How is it "hypocritical"?

Please use common sense.

Don't cop out. Tell me, how is my example of a Christian sacrificing his life for a Jew during WWII "hypocritical"? You can't get off the hook by saying, "use common sense." If you call my example "hypocritical" I have the right to know why. You can't just throw accusatory statements out without supporting them.

 

[Reba]

OK, this is the post that you said I didn't answer:

Accord my respond post #565 to your same post here... I re-read and felt that it's a hypocritical example what you gave me but it's too late for me to edit and correct my post... Here is my right post... I would say that yes it's good comparison example what you gave me but I feel it's a hypocritical example... so I give you a better example because they are fact.

A Christian or a nonpolitician sacrificed their life for their belief and freedom to Nazi during Hilter time and also muslims scacrificed their life for their country, belief and Tradition. Accord my fact example, I would say that Jesus scarificed his life for his people and belief to Roman priests, not suicidal.

Accord your post, I do not see in Nazi history that Christians sacrificed their life for Jews to Nazi but their beliefs. Sure, a lot of Germans sacrificed their life for made an illegal to hide jews from Nazi since they know Nazi's law/rule but they choose to disobey Nazi's rule/law and have to punish to death. It's same thing what the God did to the people.

What am I supposed to "answer"? I don't see any questions in the above post.

If anything, I think you owe me answers. How was my post "hypocritical"? How can you compare God to Nazis?

 

[DreamSlayer]

I missed so much of this topic, and I don't understand the issue?
So excuse me while I back track for a second.

God Killed lots and lots of People, Satan killed 10.
First, how many did Satan Create?
Second, if death is not the end of life, and God removes those people from the world to deal with them, what's your issue?

Then I noticed someone say something that always bothers me when I hear the story of the Flood!

"But if you notice, Noah warned these people about the flood, people laughed and mocked and it won't happen"

Noah didn't warn anyone. No one laughed. No one mocked. That's not in the Bible. That's a cute Sunday school story, but God was going to restart the earth. He was only saving Noah's family, no one else. God was going to get rid of the wickedness, why would he warn them?

At current time I have a feeling you are discussing Romans 13:1?
About governing authorities?

Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.

A good idea is to always look at the context of a verse.

Later the verse says:
For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong
(13:3)
For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer.
(13:4)
Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience.
(13:5)

So a government needs to meet certain standards. It doesn't ask you to follow blindly.

13:7 Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

If respect, give respect.
At some point discernment is required.
A Christian defying a Nazi Law or Rule does not go against what God has asked. Nazis were not doing 'good'. Nazis were not punishing 'wrongdoers' they were hurting innocent.
Although many were affraid, and followed the rules.
Some fought back. Those who fought back can not be called hypecritical, because their conscience would not allow them to follow Nazi rule.

 

[Maria]

Ahh, yes it is conscience. Always have, DreamSlayer. I agree about discernment is required.

 

[jazzy]

Since you mentioned that you never saw the lake of fire when you almost died 10 years ago, I don't think that it happens to every one. It did happened to Alberto's mother.

You don't have to turn away from God and Jesus... please, don't. Ok ? Alberto's mother was one of the unfortunated RCs who didn't know about prayin' to the Father thru Jesus Christ, NOT through Virgin Mary. No one tells her that. Prayin' to the Virgin Mary will not help her. She thought Virgin Mary will help her when she was very ill. It's why it is very important to have Jesus Christ in life. That was HOW Alberto started to research by readin' the Bible for the TRUTH. At that time, when he was in the Vatican, they won't let him to read the bible. He got the bible from his good friend who gave him. Alberto hide it without anyone seein' it. When he needed to read them, he will take it with him to his bed and pulled the blanket cover his head. He read it under the blanket with a flashlight. It explained how he got the eyeglasses. lol But, really ... that was how the whole story began.

I am not talkin' about " churches ". I am talkin' about Jesus Christ Himself that people really need in their lives. When they accept Him as their Saviour, they can go and find their own church where they believe in salvation. Salvation is very important. That's all.

I didn't say that the Christians' church is better than yours. It's not that point, dear friend. The point is about Jesus Christ who died for all mankind. Suppose, if Alberto's mother knew about Jesus Christ when she was very ill, she wouldn't have gone to hell in the first place and yet, she would still attend her own RC church. Just be sure that she knows who Jesus Christ really is. It broke my heart when I read about her ... that's really sad !! Of course, it made me mad when the Vatican popes don't tell her or her son anythin' about Jesus Christ.

Forgot to add : Alberto was ex-Jesuit priest after he learned about Jesus Christ. He was a born-again priest.

I do not believe Alberto's mother went to hell because she happened and believe what she saw the lake of fire right before she dies. She does not understand it. Many people did not understand what was to be sick alikeness, her body was battered and fight against all disease inside of her to cloud her mind and way of thinking alike I did years ago. Now I understand how it works, when our bodies began to dying, it will bring out the worst and u will see like lake of fire or something else like one I saw it before I called His name. ( I was agnostic then) It was a trick of Jesus Christ to scare hell out of me, I remembered one night my body was dying, first thing I felt was ready to leave my body and first thing I would see a beast stand by me. I was freaked out by this then I remembered Jesus Christ, I called Him. He came to me. That is how I knew, no one will go to hell. He wont let anyone to go to hell. Even at their last moment of their breath, He would save them all. All Catholics already accept Jesus Christ as their savior and all of them are born again christian IMHO, which it is hard for any one to believe or accept that. Now ur telling me Vatiacan popes don't tell us about Jesus Christ? Not true, Jesus Christ is their God and obey Him always. As for anyone who believe we pray to pope as our God, it is joke becuase that is false. As for Virgin Mary, I am truly blessed to get know her thru Jesus Christ, He is the one who bring me to her in my dream. She is not our God as everyone led to believe.

Alberto, it does not make any sense if he never learned about Jesus Christ while he was a priest is beyond me. I have two deaf priests, they ttold me about Jesus Christ. Then I have a deaf pastor who was telling me about Jesus Christ. No difference between three of them, all believe in same God.

 

[Maria]

I do not believe Alberto's mother went to hell because she happened and believe what she saw the lake of fire right before she dies. She does not understand it. Many people did not understand what was to be sick alikeness, her body was battered and fight against all disease inside of her to cloud her mind and way of thinking alike I did years ago. Now I understand how it works, when our bodies began to dying, it will bring out the worst and u will see like lake of fire or something else like one I saw it before I called His name. ( I was agnostic then) It was a trick of Jesus Christ to scare hell out of me, I remembered one night my body was dying, first thing I felt was ready to leave my body and first thing I would see a beast stand by me. I was freaked out by this then I remembered Jesus Christ, I called Him. He came to me. That is how I knew, no one will go to hell. He wont let anyone to go to hell. Even at their last moment of their breath, He would save them all. All Catholics already accept Jesus Christ as their savior and all of them are born again christian IMHO, which it is hard for any one to believe or accept that. Now ur telling me Vatiacan popes don't tell us about Jesus Christ? Not true, Jesus Christ is their God and obey Him always. As for anyone who believe we pray to pope as our God, it is joke becuase that is false. As for Virgin Mary, I am truly blessed to get know her thru Jesus Christ, He is the one who bring me to her in my dream. She is not our God as everyone led to believe.

Alberto, it does not make any sense if he never learned about Jesus Christ while he was a priest is beyond me. I have two deaf priests, they ttold me about Jesus Christ. Then I have a deaf pastor who was telling me about Jesus Christ. No difference between three of them, all believe in same God.

Well, Jazzy... I can understand that you are tryin' to defend Roman Catholic because, of your belief. That's very understandable. If, you don't believe me what I read about Alberto's mother, then that's fine.
It's based on a true story about what happened to Alberto's mother. I am not kiddin' you. I believe her what she saw.

See the bold highlight above : You saw a beast was standin' by you when you felt that you were leavin' your body. Well, that is exactly what Alberto's mother experienced when she was near to " death ". She didn't call upon Jesus Christ to come to her and her soul left her body and went to hell. She didn't accept Him as her Saviour at that time. Of course, it was very unfortunate. You DID call upon Jesus Christ, because you REMEMBER His Name. He rescued you, but not Alberto's mother. Same idea - no difference. IF, you didn't call upon His Name, you would probably be like Alberto's mother.

Oh, yes " unbelievers " will go to hell IF, they don't accept Jesus Christ as their Saviour. Jesus Christ is the " lifejacket ". If, I had a boat and I saw there is rushin' water ahead of me that will turn my boat over. What do you think I will do ? I will grab the lifejacket and put on immediately before it takes me down to the rushin' water. I don't want to drown, if my boat turns over. That lifejacket will save my life by floatin' me. Same idea with Jesus. I grab Jesus Christ to stick with me to avoid goin' to hell. Without a lifejacket is unthinkable. Not wise decision.

I am not sayin' that the Vatican popes don't tell YOU about Jesus Christ. Have you been in the Vatican before ? Probably not. Alberto grew up inside the Vatican where there was an institution school for him to attend. They refused to allow Alberto to question them about " Peter " or " Jesus Christ ". Alberto was very bold young man at that time. You don't have to worry about it, because Alberto was a born-again Christian priest after he learned about Jesus Christ himself thru the Bible he read on his own. Of course, it was forbidden to have the Bible around at that time. He was EX-Jesuit priest.

Keep in mind, I am not against Roman Catholic. I just don't agree with their doctrines. That's all. FYI, I know what it is like to be Roman Catholic, because I was ex-Catholic myself before.

 

[christlovedeaf]

Well, as of POV about the differences btwn RC and fundies. Doesn't matter where you go to church. The key is, if anyone ask Christ to come into his/her life, is the start, baptism and communion does not lead to heaven, it is ordinances that Christ call us to do. But salvation only thru Jesus Christ. The man beside Jesus haven't been baptize nor had communion, yet gone to paradise with Christ. True, early years RC attacked protestants, and been battle quite sometimes, but now in days, we don't see like that. But important part is, have Christ came into your life, nothing else and let Christ take care of the rest.

 

[Askjo]

Well, Jazzy... I can understand that you are tryin' to defend Roman Catholic because, of your belief. That's very understandable. If, you don't believe me what I read about Alberto's mother, then that's fine.

If anyone defend the Roman Catholic, does this mean that they defend the conspiracy of 666?

 

[Askjo]

I am not sayin' that the Vatican popes don't tell YOU about Jesus Christ. Have you been in the Vatican before ? Probably not. Alberto grew up inside the Vatican where there was an institution school for him to attend. They refused to allow Alberto to question them about " Peter " or " Jesus Christ ". Alberto was very bold young man at that time. You don't have to worry about it, because Alberto was a born-again Christian priest after he learned about Jesus Christ himself thru the Bible he read on his own. Of course, it was forbidden to have the Bible around at that time. He was EX-Jesuit priest.

I learned from a video from a man, whom I met before, who visited at Vatican a few years ago.. It was very awestruck to tell the story about this Vatican. It is HEAVY idolatry. Paints, Mary with baby Jesus, too many materials of IDOLS, but GUESS WHAT? He asked a Italian cop about the Bible. He avioded to comment it. This visitor explained what he saw at Vatican. He said NO Bible allowed at Roman Catholic Headquarter! None of it at Roman Catholic Headquarter!! Can you imagine????