Found Long Lost Biological Son (i think)....

[Schermy]

What did you give in exchange for that support?

I am asking if it was wrong to take money period. No one bothered to ask WW from the very begining before going off and saying he sold his child. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

 

[Reba]

And you can't tell me that pre-natal care back in the 1980's cost $5,000, especially if WW's wife/husband was government employed (good medical insurance benefits).

Costs for prenatal care

In an average pregnancy, doctors typically recommend that expectant mothers visit their obstetrician-gynecologist once a month for the first 6 months, twice a month for the seventh and eighth month, and then once a week for the last month of pregnancy. On average, you'll visit your ob-gyn approximately 14 times for prenatal care.

According to a 2003 report by the Agency for Healthcare Research and Quality (AHRQ), a part of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, the average amount charged to patients for prenatal and postnatal care was $133 per visit.

Therefore, 14 appointments at a cost of $133 each adds up to $1,862. Tests such as laboratory blood work or ultrasound may add to these costs.

Costs for hospital delivery

The AHRQ found that a mother's average stay in the hospital for an uncomplicated vaginal birth was about 2 days. For a cesarean section delivery without complications, moms stayed in the hospital about 3 1/2 days.3

Costs associated with vaginal and C-section births (with and without complications) are as follows:

* Vaginal delivery without complication = $6,200
* Vaginal delivery with complication = $8,200
* C-section without complication = $11,500
* C-section with complication = $15,500

Note that these charges are for hospital expenses only, including room charges. Doctor's fees are not included.

According to the American Academy of Family Physicians (AAFP), doctors may bundle their fee for services before, during and after a birth. This all-inclusive fee may involve some tests as well. Again, this cost is widely variable, but fees of $1,500 or more are not uncommon.

The True Cost of Prenatal Care and Delivery - Financial planning -

 

[jillio]

Ok I was on vacation for a while and I just had time now to look at this thread again. Eve, you have no proof that this child was sold. There are quite a few adoptions that have happened that paid the birth mothers expenses. So, until you have read all the legal documnets from this adoption, don't you think you should stop using that term. Is it possible that you missunderstood how WW explaind the adoption or that WW didn't explain it clear enough? It seems to me you should stop bashing someone who in the end did the right thing for the child. That is what your "main concern" is isn't it? So why are you worried about how it happend? Just be glad that this child ended up with great adoptive parents and has a great life. Untill you have ALL the facts, you really should stop saying that the child was sold. That's my thoughts.

I can certainly understand how a birth mother could be in such a position that the accepting of paid expenses would be attractive. What I would question, however, is the person looking for an adopted child that would prey on the vunerable situation of this birth mother.

 

[Reba]

I am asking if it was wrong to take money period. No one bothered to ask WW from the very begining before going off and saying he sold his child. Do you see the point I'm trying to make?

There's a big difference between taking support with no exchange of property or services, and taking support with an exchange of property or services.

Taking money that you earned thru insurance, or taking money from individuals or organizations as charity, with nothing expected in exchange, is not the same as taking support and then giving a baby in exchange.

Your comparison would work only if the childless couple gave WW $5,000 and didn't expect to get a baby in return.

 

[Eve]

Actually, WW's wife was unemployed after having to leave her government job and I would not be surprised that pre-natal care was $5,000 or more if they had no insurance, Your Majesty. By the way, your attitude towards WW gender is a bit bigoted. A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

First of all, it was WW's wife/husband's CHOICE to quit their job. ALL jobs are stressful, otherwise it wouldn't be called "labor". Second, if and when WW's wife/husband quit his/her job, WW became eligible for medicaid, based on the change in income.
Second, I am quite tolerant, but that doesn't mean I must condone or conform.

 

[Kaitin]

Anyway.........Whitewolves, he is at USC for design? That is great! I hope he contacts you soon.

 

[WhiteWolves64]

Yes I have read his thread but he didn't create his thread to tell us about his transgender issue but wish him good luck to reunion with his son. He only stated that he is nervous and doubt either his second son accept what his mother become a man or not.

That's correct!!!


Where is your respect? If WW want us to use "He" to him then respect his wish, no matter either it's past tense or not. I used "He" in my previous post something like that... "He was pregnant..... instead of "She was pregnant because WW want us to use "He" in his thread.

Thank you!!


Why should he repeat to answer your question when he did answered our questions voluntarliy since Cheri's first question toward him.

Yeah why should i repeat my answers when i already gave the answers... So lay off will you EVE....

Eve has just as much rights for her opinion as all of you here do, the topic was been set on topic from the moment WhiteWolves64 told us the reason of giving his two sons up for adoption, we the people did not pulled the thread off topic. Please re-read the entire thread before lying the blame on some of us. tsk tsk.

I only wishes WhiteWolves all the best of luck with the possible of having a face to face relationship with both of his sons, but who knows really what would happened only God would know more than WhiteWolves would know based how both of his son would feel at the moment of hearing what he has done to them, and how their relationship would go from there. God can see the future better than we people can.

yeah that's what we did to give them up for adoption for a better future when they were babies

The natural of a discussion board is to ask questions, get answers, share information, feedback's. and some of you are telling eve enough with her questions. You got to learn to deal with it when a thread is created. members can and are allow to ask any questions they feel they want to know and it's up to the creator of the thread to not wish or wishes to answer those questions.

just my two cents.

Thank you....

I have never said that anyone is not entitled to an opnion. I have read the thread. Believe me, I have. I do not agree with you that his hasn't veered off topic. I agree that the topic are open to discussion. I have no problem with that. However, when a person takes something out of context and starts attacking the author of the thread without all the facts and without asking questions to make sure that they are correct before attacking the author then there is a problem. Demanding to know if WW has had his reassigmnet surgery was way off topic and none of EVES business unless WW chooses to tell her and attacking WW and telling him that he SOLD a baby with out the facts was wrong.

That is my two cents.

Amen!

From the looks of it, it does looks like he sold his two sons in amount of 10,000.00 (5,000.00 each) I'm sure many members who haven't made their posts in this thread had the same similar reaction as some of us already have who posted in this thread that has their suspicions that something doesn't seem right to them. Is it wrong for them to have that suspicions? You tell me.

We have no suspicions toward them because this was open adoption than close ones so that way we can keep in touch with the adoptive parents to know how they are doing so far and etc... We were so happy to hear how they were doing very well in school and etc...

Actually I never got the impression that he sold his children. There is nothing wrong with accepting money for expenses that occur while pregnant. That is not selling a baby that is insuring that they are healthy when born. WW never said he accepted money as a sale. Also, when finally asked he did clairfy that it was for expenses. However, it's unfair to attack him before getting an answer. That's my opinion. Sorry if you don't agree. I have no problems with anyones opinon here. I also have no problem with anyone having a suspicions, I just have a problem with someone attacking another person without all the facts. That's all.

Thank you and yeah never was a sale when we were accepting monies that time...

Forum rule "Even though we support freedom of speech, show some respect"

And from RR "Let's keep Alldeaf enjoyable for all members. Respect, respect, respect and being courteous despite the differences in opinions and thoughts conveyed in AllDeaf.com!"

Not "agreement" or "best friends" - just respect even with different opinions. None need to earn respect here in AD because we all must begin with respect and not give respect only after a person passes some test. AD is a community and not a school.

Also from RR - "AllDeaf isn't a Forum where we can openly bash or thrash any member, if a member have the urge or the desires to deplorably and openly insult or bash others, there ARE other online sites that will cater to those needs."

Thank you Kaitin....

THANK YOU

YEAH THANK YOU also!!!!!

"stupid SS office turned us down and was forcing us to give up our 7 1/2 months old son to adoptive parents (been in touch once a while - it's good to know ) at the same time i was preggy again for second time with her flesh & blood biological son and we knew that we still cannot afford to raise second son again as she quit her goverment job due to stress out. In meantime, we were looking for best candidate adoptive parents and found a couple who had childless for 18 yrs and we signed similar contract to give our child to the adoption parents to make the payments to us which total worth $5,000 that time and then on March 16th 1986, i gave a son birth and he weighed 10 lbs 13 oz and 22 inch long"

WW did not take any money for the first child as far as I can tell when they adopted this child out at 7 1/2 months. The second child he adopted out was 3 days old. Second, expenses. Of course there are expenses. Pre-natal doctors visits, vitamins, maternity clothes, a healthy porper diet........several other little things might pop up that they could not afford. That is what the money is for. You can't tell me Pre-natal care is not important to a child and that the vitamins and a proper diet are not important?? Why is it wrong for the adoptive family to help out in these expenses that they would have incurred if they had had the child on their own? I don't think that makes WW a bad person at all. I respectfully dissagree with your opnion that this was a money motivated adoption. He even stated later in a post that even if the adoptive parents hadn't given money they would have apoted the child to them. Did you read the thread?

Now...........there are bad people out there who do take advantage of adoptive parents. I do know that. I have a problem with that. I just don't see this as being the case. IMHO.

Thank you again!!!!!

Just to give a little perspective to the numbers:

The $24,000 income of 1985 would be worth $45,000 in 2006.

The $5,000 of 1985 would be worth over $9,300 in 2006.

Excatly!!!

Actually, WW's wife was unemployed after having to leave her government job and I would not be surprised that pre-natal care was $5,000 or more if they had no insurance, Your Majesty. By the way, your attitude towards WW gender is a bit bigoted. A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.

AMEN to it!!!!!!!!

Ok, i am going to close this thread {Mod Edit: Comments removed--~RR}

 

[Roadrunner]

Mod Note:


Thread's re-opened per creator's request and update--


Please, no bashing, belittling, etc., if one cannot post in a 'good' way, don't bother posting.




~RR

 

[WhiteWolves64]

Mod Note:


Thread's re-opened per creator's request and update--


Please, no bashing, belittling, etc., if one cannot post in a 'good' way, don't bother posting.




~RR

RR

 

[WhiteWolves64]

Hey i have new update e-mail from Doug's adoptive parents



Hi Sxxxx and Jxxxx.

We're glad you had a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Doug was home with us but slept most of the time because he is very busy this year. He doesn't play sports at school, although he played rugby from the time he was 5 until he finished high school. He draws and paints very well, but now he's into sculpture.

We told him about your letters and he was very surprised. We are leaving the decision to contact you entirely up to him. He says he's very busy right now and doesn't have time to think about it, but he will. He has your contact information and will get in touch with you if and when he thinks the time is right. He knows how to get in touch with Michael if he wants to. The decision is his, and we trust you will respect his privacy until he is ready.

Regards, Cxxxx and Bxxx Wxxxxx

It looks a promising but cannot guarantee that he will keep in touch with us anytime now... But later he will... Remember no bashing, belittling, insulting and etc and please try to post postive way not negative way - Thank you!

 

[lumbingmi]

Everyone has his or her own reason for doing something that may seems not normal to us. However, it may be taboo or not but basically we cannot do anything unless there's laws for specific action. If there is no laws for anything that seems to be immoral , we can only assume that it must be rightful and appropriate behavior.

 

[Maria]

Hey i have new update e-mail from Doug's adoptive parents



Hi Sxxxx and Jxxxx.

We're glad you had a nice Thanksgiving dinner. Doug was home with us but slept most of the time because he is very busy this year. He doesn't play sports at school, although he played rugby from the time he was 5 until he finished high school. He draws and paints very well, but now he's into sculpture.

We told him about your letters and he was very surprised. We are leaving the decision to contact you entirely up to him. He says he's very busy right now and doesn't have time to think about it, but he will. He has your contact information and will get in touch with you if and when he thinks the time is right. He knows how to get in touch with Michael if he wants to. The decision is his, and we trust you will respect his privacy until he is ready.

Regards, Cxxxx and Bxxx Wxxxxx

It looks a promising but cannot guarantee that he will keep in touch with us anytime now... But later he will... Remember no bashing, belittling, insulting and etc and please try to post postive way not negative way - Thank you!

Yep, just give him time.

I am sure he will not forget you. And, be sure that you be honest with him when the time comes right for him to question you. Ok ?

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Hi WW,

Accord email, Adoptive parents sound nice couple to me.

Yes I would advise you to take adoptive parents´advice to give him time until he is ready.

Wish you best of good luck.

 

[Cheri]

Hi WW,

Accord email, Adoptive parents sound nice couple to me.

Yes I would advise you to take adoptive parents´advice to give him time until he is ready.

Wish you best of good luck.

Yep, they seem nice and aren't those type of people that would get in the middle of the relationship of the biological parents and the child the adoptive parents were more neutral. I like that.

I agree with Liebling, give your son time and space.

 

[WBHarley]

WhiteWolf,


I am very glad that his adoptive parent wrote back to you, and they were very honest with your son.. Also I appreciates that they were very honest with Doug too..

I recall my sister's son found my sister about 8 years ago, but at same time I wish He didn't find her big reason was she's an alcoholism. but At least He met the rest of whole family that He could get know all of us.. My children adores him too

Sometime we get in touch, but I do not want to make him feel so uncomfortable to keep in touch I rather that he talk to us whenever he's ready Silly thing, I think he feel the same way as we all do feel

I will send him xmas card soon too


Wendy

 

[nozobo]

At least you got email from them which is a good start. Wish you the best luck to keep in touch with them about your biological son!

 

[Angel]

I agree with Nozobo here, it's a good start that you got this email and it seem Doug's adoptive parents are so nice and honest people...I agree that it is your son's decision when he would be ready to get in touch with the two of you, wish you all the best....

 

[jazzy]

I am glad WW, u got email from his adoptive parents. Don't be too upset if he made a choice not want to see u. My father met his birth mother couple time and he never want to see her again after last visit between them two. I am concern both of u may get feeling hurt from his decision if he does not want to see u?. Pray it goes well for u both.

 

[WhiteWolves64]

Yep, just give him time.

I am sure he will not forget you. And, be sure that you be honest with him when the time comes right for him to question you. Ok ?

Yes and we told them that we respect his wishes and whenever he is ready to contact us... And we will give him our honest answers when the time comes right....

Hi WW,

Accord email, Adoptive parents sound nice couple to me.

Yes I would advise you to take adoptive parents´advice to give him time until he is ready.

Wish you best of good luck.

That's what we had our minds to give him time until he's ready!

Yep, they seem nice and aren't those type of people that would get in the middle of the relationship of the biological parents and the child the adoptive parents were more neutral. I like that.

I agree with Liebling, give your son time and space.

Yes they are very nice couple as we met them at first time in person back in 1986 and i agree with Liebling and Maria that we should give him a plenty time to contact us whenever he's ready!

WhiteWolf,


I am very glad that his adoptive parent wrote back to you, and they were very honest with your son.. Also I appreciates that they were very honest with Doug too..

I recall my sister's son found my sister about 8 years ago, but at same time I wish He didn't find her big reason was she's an alcoholism. but At least He met the rest of whole family that He could get know all of us.. My children adores him too

Sometime we get in touch, but I do not want to make him feel so uncomfortable to keep in touch I rather that he talk to us whenever he's ready Silly thing, I think he feel the same way as we all do feel

I will send him xmas card soon too


Wendy

Good idea sending x-mas card soon to him and his adoptive parents by e-mail because they did not give us their snail mail address as we will respect their wishes if they did not give us their snail mail address... Give them more time to contact with us thru e-mail.... Fair enuff?

At least you got email from them which is a good start. Wish you the best luck to keep in touch with them about your biological son!

Thank you!

I agree with Nozobo here, it's a good start that you got this email and it seem Doug's adoptive parents are so nice and honest people...I agree that it is your son's decision when he would be ready to get in touch with the two of you, wish you all the best....

Yeah i agree and thank you!

I am glad WW, u got email from his adoptive parents. Don't be too upset if he made a choice not want to see u. My father met his birth mother couple time and he never want to see her again after last visit between them two. I am concern both of u may get feeling hurt from his decision if he does not want to see u?. Pray it goes well for u both.

Yes and we have preparing in case if he doesn't want to see us but that's okay just give them (our boys) more time to contact with us anytime at their wishes....

 

[Hwy99]

Yupp agree with others, the adoptive parents seems really nice couple Hopefully to hear the updates soon