Found Long Lost Biological Son (i think)....

[Schermy]

Eve has just as much rights for her opinion as all of you here do, the topic was been set on topic from the moment WhiteWolves64 told us the reason of giving his two sons up for adoption, we the people did not pulled the thread off topic. Please re-read the entire thread before lying the blame on some of us. tsk tsk.

I only wishes WhiteWolves all the best of luck with the possible of having a face to face relationship with both of his sons, but who knows really what would happened only God would know more than WhiteWolves would know based how both of his son would feel at the moment of hearing what he has done to them, and how their relationship would go from there. God can see the future better than we people can.

The natural of a discussion board is to ask questions, get answers, share information, feedback's. and some of you are telling eve enough with her questions. You got to learn to deal with it when a thread is created. members can and are allow to ask any questions they feel they want to know and it's up to the creator of the thread to not wish or wishes to answer those questions.

just my two cents.

I have never said that anyone is not entitled to an opnion. I have read the thread. Believe me, I have. I do not agree with you that his hasn't veered off topic. I agree that the topic are open to discussion. I have no problem with that. However, when a person takes something out of context and starts attacking the author of the thread without all the facts and without asking questions to make sure that they are correct before attacking the author then there is a problem. Demanding to know if WW has had his reassigmnet surgery was way off topic and none of EVES business unless WW chooses to tell her and attacking WW and telling him that he SOLD a baby with out the facts was wrong.

That is my two cents.

 

[Liebling:-)))]

That's right. If the son wants no contact, he needs to be left alone.

Yes, that's right.

IF they want it. Someone's version of the truth should never be forced on the child.

The adopted children deserve to know that they are being adopted and why they are being adopted. They should learn from their own adoptive parents, not from someone else. Positive adopted children's questions about their birthmother before they will know who they are. Many adopted children become teenagers asked adoptive parents thousand of questions about their birthmothers. Adoptive parents positive their questions what they know. I am not saying that they know everything but what they know.

"You" who? The birth parents or the adoptive parents? To whom are you referring?

Adoptive parents.

If they want to know. No one should force themselves on the children.

I am not sure what you mean.. Do you mean that adoptive parents don't have to force to tell their adoptive children the truth if adoptive children want to know more about their birth parents?

If the son requests a "reunion", that's up to him. I'm not even sure such a meeting classifies as a "reunion" since there never was a relationship between them in the first place, be that as it may.

I rather to not say until ....... I know some birthmother and birth child contact each other like friend after their first reunion. It really depend...

Who will tell them? Why do they need to know?

No good.

You know that some birthchildren need to know both sides between birthmother/parents and adoptive parents.

What if birthmother reunion with birthchild and then question birthmother why she gave him/her up for an adoption... ? You never know that birthmother tell them full truth which adoptive parents doesn't? It's bad when birthchild learn from birthmother that his/her adoptive parents bought him/her. I rather to face the truth to adopted child before someone else tell him/her. Can you image how adopted child feel when she/he learn from her/his birthmother, not adoptive parents and know that adoptive parents tell her/him half truth or nothing?

Why would the adoptive parents tell the children that? The adoptive parents don't know everything about the birth parents, so they can't tell them all that.

If the adopted children ask specific questions about the birth parents, and if the adoptive parents truly know the facts, and if the child is mature enough to understand, then the parents can answer those specific questions. But there's no positive reason to tell them more than that.

I am not saying that adoptive parents know everything to 100% but they should be honest with adopted child's question what they know about their birthmother.

That's right. Some birth parents don't want adult children knocking on their doors 20 years later either.

Yes, that's why we have adoption agency to contact birthchildren or birthmother/parents.

I never, never said that, and you definitely don't know what I "think."

I only make sure since you mentioned in previous post. "The birth parents made their decision to give up all parental rights many years ago." because the decision, some birthmother made is not easy.

 

[Hwy99]

I owe WW no respect. She hasn’t earned it. As far as I am concerned, SHE was born with a vagina and until I know differently, SHE will always be a SHE to me. If SHE doesn’t like it, SHE can ignore me. If SHE wants to use “He” then SHE can do whatever she wants, but that doesn’t mean I have to ignore my own senses to pacify HER desires. So, if you want to leave the transgender issue alone, then by all means, do so.

See? You are acting like ignorant which make more arguement around here.

 

[Tousi]

Right, Cheri. Anyone who begins a thread that has the potential for problems takes the risk of doing so. A thread creator should not automatically expect to hear that all is lovey dovey with their topic. I have thoughts on this topic that I am sure the creator would not want to hear so I haven't expressed them. That is the difference between some of us and someone like Eve and yourself were within the rules in your inquiries, and comments. Someone such as myself felt that the creator could not handle the truth (or my opinion); therefore, I didn't feel what I had to say would help the situation, especially after some of the "uglier" facts came out.

This is why I now think the thread should be closed; I think WW might agree but this is up to him and if he choses to keep it open and hope for more emotion-ladened support from others, he has another thing coming.

 

[Schermy]

I owe WW no respect. She hasn’t earned it. As far as I am concerned, SHE was born with a vagina and until I know differently, SHE will always be a SHE to me. If SHE doesn’t like it, SHE can ignore me. If SHE wants to use “He” then SHE can do whatever she wants, but that doesn’t mean I have to ignore my own senses to pacify HER desires. So, if you want to leave the transgender issue alone, then by all means, do so.

Now you are just being very disrespectful of WW!

 

[Hwy99]

Right, Cheri. Anyone who begins a thread that has the potential for problems takes the risk of doing so. A thread creator should not automatically expect to hear that all is lovey dovey with their topic. I have thoughts on this topic that I am sure the creator would not want to hear so I haven't. That is the difference between some of us and someone like Eve and yourself were within the rules in your inquiries, and comments. Someone such as myself felt that the creator could not handle the truth (or my opinion); therefore, I didn't feel what I had to say would help the situation, especially after some of the "uglier" facts came out.

This is why I now think the thread should be closed; I think WW might agree but this is up to him and if he choses to keep it open and hope for more emotion-ladened support from others, he has another thing coming.

I hate to bring it up, but WW can report to the moderators to solve this thread's problem and it don't have to be the closing the thread, that's not only the option to solve.

 

[Schermy]

Right, Cheri. Anyone who begins a thread that has the potential for problems takes the risk of doing so. A thread creator should not automatically expect to hear that all is lovey dovey with their topic. I have thoughts on this topic that I am sure the creator would not want to hear so I haven't. That is the difference between some of us and someone like Eve and yourself were within the rules in your inquiries, and comments. Someone such as myself felt that the creator could not handle the truth (or my opinion); therefore, I didn't feel what I had to say would help the situation, especially after some of the "uglier" facts came out.

This is why I now think the thread should be closed; I think WW might agree but this is up to him and if he choses to keep it open and hope for more emotion-ladened support from others, he has another thing coming.

It's one thing to express your opinion and onther to attack a person. I don't see any problems with anyone dissagreeing with how WW handled his life, I have a problem when someone attacks and saythings that are unfounded and were never verified.

 

[Cheri]

telling him that he SOLD a baby with out the facts was wrong.

From the looks of it, it does looks like he sold his two sons in amount of 10,000.00 (5,000.00 each) I'm sure many members who haven't made their posts in this thread had the same similar reaction as some of us already have who posted in this thread that has their suspicions that something doesn't seem right to them. Is it wrong for them to have that suspicions? You tell me.

 

[Reba]

The adopted children deserve to know that they are being adopted and why they are being adopted.

Natural birth children don't know everything about their origins either. It's not necessary. Do you know how, when, where, and why you were conceived? Do you need to know that? No. Do you need to know that one night your parents got drunk and nasty with each other? Do you need to know that they argued about whether or not this "accident" should be aborted? Do you need to know that they blamed your arrival for interrupting their plans of higher education? Would all that "truth" make you feel better? How would all that "truth" improve your life now?

Even if the parents give the children one story about their adoption, how do they really know that's what happened? Sometimes the immature birth parents don't even really know themselves.

They should learn from their own adoptive parents, not from someone else.

Sometimes the adoptive parents don't have the full story themselves.

Adoptive parents.

They have to use their discernment and wisdom to know how much to reveal and when. That is, if they even know the whole truth. Their children shouldn't hate them for that.

I am not sure what you mean.. Do you mean that adoptive parents don't have to force to tell their adoptive children the truth if adoptive children want to know more about their birth parents?

If the adopted children don't want to know about the birth parents, or they don't want to meet the birth parents, then no one should force them to do it.

...What if birthmother reunion with birthchild and then question birthmother why she gave him/her up for an adoption... ? You never know that birthmother tell them full truth which adoptive parents doesn't? It's bad when birthchild learn from birthmother that his/her adoptive parents bought him/her. I rather to face the truth to adopted child before someone else tell him/her. Can you image how adopted child feel when she/he learn from her/his birthmother, not adoptive parents and know that adoptive parents tell her/him half truth or nothing?

How do you ever know that the birth parents will tell the same story? The story that they told the adoptive parents 20 years ago might not be the same story they tell the grown child now. There is no way to know if the birth parents' version of the story will be the same as what they told the adoptive parents many years ago. The adoptive parents can tell what they want from their viewpoint but they can't describe with any surety what the birth parents' story will be.

That also means that the birth parents can't speak for the adoptive parents actions either. They don't have all the facts about their side of the story either.

Yes, that's why we have adoption agency to contact birthchildren or birthmother/parents.

It's not done the same way in every country.

I only make sure since you mentioned in previous post. "The birth parents made their decision to give up all parental rights many years ago." because the decision, some birthmother made is not easy.

I never said or even implied that the decision was easy. Never. I can't imagine a more heart-wrenching decision.

 

[Schermy]

From the looks of it, it does looks like he sold his two sons in amount of 10,000.00 (5,000.00 each) I'm sure many members who haven't made their posts in this thread had the same similar reaction as some of us already have who posted in this thread that has their suspicions that something doesn't seem right to them. Is it wrong for them to have that suspicions? You tell me.

Actually I never got the impression that he sold his children. There is nothing wrong with accepting money for expenses that occur while pregnant. That is not selling a baby that is insuring that they are healthy when born. WW never said he accepted money as a sale. Also, when finally asked he did clairfy that it was for expenses. However, it's unfair to attack him before getting an answer. That's my opinion. Sorry if you don't agree. I have no problems with anyones opinon here. I also have no problem with anyone having a suspicions, I just have a problem with someone attacking another person without all the facts. That's all.

 

[Kaitin]

I owe WW no respect. She hasn’t earned it.

Forum rule "Even though we support freedom of speech, show some respect"

And from RR "Let's keep Alldeaf enjoyable for all members. Respect, respect, respect and being courteous despite the differences in opinions and thoughts conveyed in AllDeaf.com!"

Not "agreement" or "best friends" - just respect even with different opinions. None need to earn respect here in AD because we all must begin with respect and not give respect only after a person passes some test. AD is a community and not a school.

Also from RR - "AllDeaf isn't a Forum where we can openly bash or thrash any member, if a member have the urge or the desires to deplorably and openly insult or bash others, there ARE other online sites that will cater to those needs."

 

[Schermy]

Forum rule "Even though we support freedom of speech, show some respect"

And from RR "Let's keep Alldeaf enjoyable for all members. Respect, respect, respect and being courteous despite the differences in opinions and thoughts conveyed in AllDeaf.com!"

Not "agreement" or "best friends" - just respect even with different opinions. None need to earn respect here in AD because we all must begin with respect and not give respect only after a person passes some test. AD is a community and not a school.

Also from RR - "AllDeaf isn't a Forum where we can openly bash or thrash any member, if a member have the urge or the desires to deplorably and openly insult or bash others, there ARE other online sites that will cater to those needs."

THANK YOU

 

[Cheri]

There is nothing wrong with accepting money for expenses that occur while pregnant.

but this story is different, the son wasn't a newborn, he was 7 and half months old. It's common for some to react a lot differently than some others.

WW never said he accepted money as a sale. Also, when finally asked he did clairfy that it was for expenses.

what expenses really?? only person that would need the money would be the child, not birth parents without a child. I don't think it is okay for anyone to profit off children. I definitely know giving a baby up for adoption is probably the hardest thing in the world for a mother to do, but receiving payments does not look so good on a mother or a father for all that matters.

If I were to give my child up for adoption, it should be done by child’s best interest, not money. some people pay top dollar for specific healthy infant, that’s typical and it's wrong--you may disagree with me, but this is just how I feel. IMO.

 

[Schermy]

but this story is different, the son wasn't a newborn, he was 7 and half months old. It's common for some to react a lot differently than some others.


what expenses really?? only person that would need the money would be the child, not birth parents without a child. I don't think it is okay for anyone to profit off children. I definitely know giving a baby up for adoption is probably the hardest thing in the world for a mother to do, but receiving payments does not look so good on a mother or a father for all that matters.

If I were to give my child up for adoption, it should be done by child’s best interest, not money. some people pay top dollar for specific healthy infant, that’s typical and it's wrong--you may disagree with me, but this is just how I feel. IMO.

"stupid SS office turned us down and was forcing us to give up our 7 1/2 months old son to adoptive parents (been in touch once a while - it's good to know ) at the same time i was preggy again for second time with her flesh & blood biological son and we knew that we still cannot afford to raise second son again as she quit her goverment job due to stress out. In meantime, we were looking for best candidate adoptive parents and found a couple who had childless for 18 yrs and we signed similar contract to give our child to the adoption parents to make the payments to us which total worth $5,000 that time and then on March 16th 1986, i gave a son birth and he weighed 10 lbs 13 oz and 22 inch long"

WW did not take any money for the first child as far as I can tell when they adopted this child out at 7 1/2 months. The second child he adopted out was 3 days old. Second, expenses. Of course there are expenses. Pre-natal doctors visits, vitamins, maternity clothes, a healthy porper diet........several other little things might pop up that they could not afford. That is what the money is for. You can't tell me Pre-natal care is not important to a child and that the vitamins and a proper diet are not important?? Why is it wrong for the adoptive family to help out in these expenses that they would have incurred if they had had the child on their own? I don't think that makes WW a bad person at all. I respectfully dissagree with your opnion that this was a money motivated adoption. He even stated later in a post that even if the adoptive parents hadn't given money they would have apoted the child to them. Did you read the thread?

Now...........there are bad people out there who do take advantage of adoptive parents. I do know that. I have a problem with that. I just don't see this as being the case. IMHO.

 

[Cheri]

Yes, I've read the entire thread, the point is it doesn't matter if the money wasn't asked, the point is they took the money, it's just the same as selling it's no differences. Even if someone hand over his/her credit card number and the baby is mailed out to them it's no differences. no children should be brought, they are loving, caring creatures--like each of us here. Just image how would those two sons feel after finding out they were sold for 5,000.00 each? Would they feel that they were unwanted? you tell me.

I'm done with this thread, it's too heartbreaking.

 

[Eve]

Forum rule "Even though we support freedom of speech, show some respect"

And from RR "Let's keep Alldeaf enjoyable for all members. Respect, respect, respect and being courteous despite the differences in opinions and thoughts conveyed in AllDeaf.com!"

Not "agreement" or "best friends" - just respect even with different opinions. None need to earn respect here in AD because we all must begin with respect and not give respect only after a person passes some test. AD is a community and not a school.

Also from RR - "AllDeaf isn't a Forum where we can openly bash or thrash any member, if a member have the urge or the desires to deplorably and openly insult or bash others, there ARE other online sites that will cater to those needs."

Respect for an individual does not mean that I must refer to that person outside of their God-given gender simply because that is their desire. Otherwise, you would all be require to refer to me as "Your Majesty", simply because that would be my desire. Silly, huh?

You can't tell me Pre-natal care is not important to a child and that the vitamins and a proper diet are not important??

And you can't tell me that pre-natal care back in the 1980's cost $5,000, especially if WW's wife/husband was government employed (good medical insurance benefits).

 

[Schermy]

Yes, I've read the entire thread, the point is it doesn't matter if the money wasn't asked, the point is they took the money, it's just the same as selling it's no differences. Even if someone hand over his/her credit card number and the baby is mailed out to them it's no differences. no children should not be brought, they are loving, caring creatures--like each of us here. Just image how would those two sons feel after finding out they were sold for 5,000.00 each? Would they feel that they were unwanted? you tell me.

I'm done with this thread, it's too heartbreaking.

HHHHHMMMMMMMM well, when I was pregnant I lost my job due to downsizing of the corporation at the time. I wonder, was it wrong of me to take money given to me to help insure the health of me and my child and to make sure I was able to eat a healthy and proper diet and to make sure I had maternity clothes to wear?

WW child was not "sold" and for that matter if you are saying that anyone givng money for a baby is wrong then there should be NO adoption in the world. Everyone ends up "paying" for a child when they adopt.

 

[Reba]

"stupid SS office turned us down and was forcing us to give up our 7 1/2 months old son to adoptive parents (been in touch once a while - it's good to know ) at the same time i was preggy again for second time with her flesh & blood biological son and we knew that we still cannot afford to raise second son again as she quit her goverment job due to stress out. In meantime, we were looking for best candidate adoptive parents and found a couple who had childless for 18 yrs and we signed similar contract to give our child to the adoption parents to make the payments to us which total worth $5,000 that time and then on March 16th 1986, i gave a son birth and he weighed 10 lbs 13 oz and 22 inch long"

WW did not take any money for the first child as far as I can tell when they adopted this child out at 7 1/2 months. The second child he adopted out was 3 days old. Second, expenses. Of course there are expenses. Pre-natal doctors visits, vitamins, maternity clothes, a healthy porper diet........several other little things might pop up that they could not afford. That is what the money is for. You can't tell me Pre-natal care is not important to a child and that the vitamins and a proper diet are not important?? Why is it wrong for the adoptive family to help out in these expenses that they would have incurred if they had had the child on their own? I don't think that makes WW a bad person at all. I respectfully dissagree with your opnion that this was a money motivated adoption. He even stated later in a post that even if the adoptive parents hadn't given money they would have apoted the child to them. Did you read the thread?

Now...........there are bad people out there who do take advantage of adoptive parents. I do know that. I have a problem with that. I just don't see this as being the case. IMHO.

Just to give a little perspective to the numbers:

The $24,000 income of 1985 would be worth $45,000 in 2006.

The $5,000 of 1985 would be worth over $9,300 in 2006.

 

[Reba]

HHHHHMMMMMMMM well, when I was pregnant I lost my job due to downsizing of the corporation at the time. I wonder, was it wrong of me to take money given to me to help insure the health of me and my child and to make sure I was able to eat a healthy and proper diet and to make sure I had maternity clothes to wear?

What did you give in exchange for that support?

 

[Schermy]

Respect for an individual does not mean that I must refer to that person outside of their God-given gender simply because that is their desire. Otherwise, you would all be require to refer to me as "Your Majesty", simply because that would be my desire. Silly, huh?

And you can't tell me that pre-natal care back in the 1980's cost $5,000, especially if WW's wife/husband was government employed (good medical insurance benefits).

Actually, WW's wife was unemployed after having to leave her government job and I would not be surprised that pre-natal care was $5,000 or more if they had no insurance, Your Majesty. By the way, your attitude towards WW gender is a bit bigoted. A bigot is a prejudiced person who is intolerant of opinions, lifestyles, or identities differing from his or her own.