For Hearing Educators

We have a poster here who could really learn from this. She thinks Deaf kids can only learn to think if they learn to listen and speak. And she's proud of being a TOD.
 
zeefour said:
We have a poster here who could really learn from this. She thinks Deaf kids can only learn to think if they learn to listen and speak. And she's proud of being a TOD.
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If this is referencing me, that is not what I believe at all. Different choices and options work for different children. I do one thing very well. I teach the students that I serve using best practices and they are doing amazing. My class of 4/5-year-olds are testing within the normal range for language, reading (at the Kindergarten and first-grade levels), writing and doing great. That is my job and I am doing it.
 
zeefour said:
We have a poster here who could really learn from this. She thinks Deaf kids can only learn to think if they learn to listen and speak. And she's proud of being a TOD.
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ONLY hearing people think this way. My opinion the deaf are smarter than the hearing. I have this notion that deaf children are taught in the hearing world to learn their set of ways. We have come a long way to finally express our ideas and opinions. What the hearing fell to see that we understand more than they think. Just because we are not hearing and do not speak their tongue doesn't mean we cant form some sort of language to get our thoughts on writing or to each other. I was forced to wear hearing aids and learn their set of ways. Now I don't feel like I fit in with the deaf or hearing culture all because I am not fully deaf nor fully hearing. Damn its hard to be HOH, and I know its harder to be deaf. If a deaf child can fully express what they are truly thinking to their parents deaf or not, a deaf child can truly express themselves. I sometimes think in most cases they are told with a deaf child they must learn to speak with voices or wear hearing aids. Why cant THEY see that being DEAF is OK! And........ ASL is a good as any language spoken. :D
 
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peekaboo said:
ONLY hearing people think this way. My opinion the deaf are smarter than the hearing. I have this notion that deaf children are taught in the hearing world to learn their set of ways. We have come a long way to finally express our ideas and opinions. What the hearing fell to see that we understand more than they think. Just because we are not hearing and do not speak their tongue doesn't mean we cant form some sort of language to get our thoughts on writing or to each other. I was forced to wear hearing aids and learn their set of ways. Now I don't feel like I fit in with the deaf or hearing culture all because I am not fully deaf nor fully hearing. Damn its hard to be HOH, and I know its harder to be deaf. If a deaf child can fully express what they are truly thinking to their parents deaf or not, a deaf child can truly express themselves. I sometimes think in most cases they are told with a deaf child they must learn to speak with voices or wear hearing aids. Why cant THEY see that being DEAF is OK!
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This is exactly my experience too!!! I feel stuck between two worlds and I don't belong in either.

@Teacherofthedeaf And yes that was referring to you. You think that Deaf students who are fluent in ASL are stupid and less successful based only on English literacy. Speaking English isn't indicative of higher intellectual or academic success. Look at Gallaudet, there's lots of masters students and PhDs who have used ASL their whole life. ASL is just as valuable of a language as English.

You actively refuse to even learn the basics of Deaf culture and signing but then you are proud of forcing deaf children to be a part of the hearing world. You don't give them a choice and you don't give them the tools they need to choose for themselves later in life. I would be ashamed of this, not proud.
 
In a hearing world, they will not see us as equals but only to their standard of level of learning. It's not their fault that they don't fully understand what we are or have been trying to tell them for hundreds of years is we as a whole D/deaf and HOH can manage our own thinking. I remember when I was a child at the home, I was forbidden to use sign language because... get ready for this........ the oral school TOLD MY Parents, NOT TO USE SIGN LANGUAGE but to USE VOICE ONLY. If that isn't forced, then I do not know what is. The Oral school system truly believes that speaking their tongues will make them smarter???? Or let's just say, most hearing people will say, oh is not that, we just want whats best for your D/deaf child. How the hell would they know what is best for us?? BUwahahahahahah... I have a friend Kathy who went to Gallaudet with 3 or 4 masters, I can't remember, and she is by far the smartest woman I have ever met in my entire life. I have a lot of D/deaf and hoh friends and they ALL are EXTREMELY Intelligent based on ASL alone. :D So you see... hearing people will never get it. I know SEE PSE and ASL. SEE is BORING! ASL is alive and has more feeling to it. PSE is a mix of both. But there is just something about ASL that speaks... D/deaf as a whole. I am not trying to downsize hearing people. It's just ....they WILL NEVER GET IT!
 
zeefour said:
This is exactly my experience too!!! I feel stuck between two worlds and I don't belong in either.

@Teacherofthedeaf And yes that was referring to you. You think that Deaf students who are fluent in ASL are stupid and less successful based only on English literacy. Speaking English isn't indicative of higher intellectual or academic success. Look at Gallaudet, there's lots of masters students and PhDs who have used ASL their whole life. ASL is just as valuable of a language as English.

You actively refuse to even learn the basics of Deaf culture and signing but then you are proud of forcing deaf children to be a part of the hearing world. You don't give them a choice and you don't give them the tools they need to choose for themselves later in life. I would be ashamed of this, not proud.
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No, I don't believe that at all. How absurd! The language one uses has absolutely no bearing on your intelligence.

Again, I do not force a child or family to do anything. Language choice is never my decision. I provide services for families after they have determined what language opportunities they would like to pursue.
 
peekaboo said:
ONLY hearing people think this way. My opinion the deaf are smarter than the hearing. I have this notion that deaf children are taught in the hearing world to learn their set of ways. We have come a long way to finally express our ideas and opinions. What the hearing fell to see that we understand more than they think. Just because we are not hearing and do not speak their tongue doesn't mean we cant form some sort of language to get our thoughts on writing or to each other. I was forced to wear hearing aids and learn their set of ways. Now I don't feel like I fit in with the deaf or hearing culture all because I am not fully deaf nor fully hearing. Damn its hard to be HOH, and I know its harder to be deaf. If a deaf child can fully express what they are truly thinking to their parents deaf or not, a deaf child can truly express themselves. I sometimes think in most cases they are told with a deaf child they must learn to speak with voices or wear hearing aids. Why cant THEY see that being DEAF is OK! And........ ASL is a good as any language spoken. :D
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Being deaf is definitely ok and ASL is a full, rich language that is equal to any other natural language.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
Being deaf is definitely ok and ASL is a full, rich language that is equal to any other natural language.
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Do you tell the D/deaf and hearing parents this? If so, what is their answer? I was forced as seeing I went to an oral school for years and was taught that sign language was not an option. As I was born deaf... do you agree with their terms to learn oral, cued speech, touch and feel voices and sounds? Is this normal behavior for a D/deaf child to NOT have an option to be able to fully embrace their true self as a whole? I want an honest answer, not an answer from your master's degree.
 
peekaboo said:
Do you tell the D/deaf and hearing parents this? If so, what is their answer? I was forced as seeing I went to an oral school for years and was taught that sign language was not an option. As I was born deaf... do you agree with their terms to learn oral, cued speech, touch and feel voices and sounds? Is this normal behavior for a D/deaf child to NOT have an option to be able to fully embrace their true self as a whole? I want an honest answer, not an answer from your master's degree.
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Sure, of course, we do. We lay out all their options and they decide what is best for their child.

We never use touch to teach spoken language. Our students hear us speak and are able to learn from listening.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
Sure, of course, we do. We lay out all their options and they decide what is best for their child.

We never use touch to teach spoken language.Our students hear us speak and are able to learn from listening.
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Sure, of course, we do. We lay out all their options and they decide what is best for their child.

We Lay out ? uh huh. I heard that before, meaning, you tell them the school system options and that's there is only the school system's option.

So, what you are saying... and you quote " Our students hear us speak and are able to learn from listening. " From this statement, you are saying that to "hear us speak" they are able to learn? So what you are saying here is that if they are D/deaf, they are not able to learn ONLY if they can hear and speak? You are a phony!
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
No, I don't believe that at all. How absurd! The language one uses has absolutely no bearing on your intelligence.

Again, I do not force a child or family to do anything. Language choice is never my decision. I provide services for families after they have determined what language opportunities they would like to pursue.
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What kind of choice do you give them? "We only use verbal English here, no sign language." That's not much of a choice...
 
peekaboo said:
Sure, of course, we do. We lay out all their options and they decide what is best for their child.

We Lay out ? uh huh. I heard that before, meaning, you tell them the school system options and that's there is only the school system's option.

So, what you are saying... and you quote " Our students hear us speak and are able to learn from listening. " From this statement, you are saying that to "hear us speak" they are able to learn? So what you are saying here is that if they are D/deaf, they are not able to learn ONLY if they can hear and speak? You are a phony!
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As an early interventionist, I go to the family's home. I explain hearing loss and its impacts on development. I explain to the family that there are many different ways to communicate. There are individuals from the other programs in the area that provide services in other ways, including a person with the exact same credentials as mine who comes from the state school for the deaf. The family then decides who they want to get services from. Some families choose me, which would be spoken language only, some choose a therapist who uses spoken language and sign, and some choose ASL as the language of intervention and get services from the school for the Deaf.
 
zeefour said:
What kind of choice do you give them? "We only use verbal English here, no sign language." That's not much of a choice...
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No, they don't enroll in our school until much later. In Early Intervention, providers go to the family's home and help them understand hearing loss and language development. They are given the option of services from someone like me, which would be spoken language only, someone who does both, or someone from the school for the Deaf that uses ASL as the language of communication. The family chooses their path and the appropriate services are provided.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
No, they don't enroll in our school until much later. In Early Intervention, providers go to the family's home and help them understand hearing loss and language development. They are given the option of services from someone like me, which would be spoken language only, someone who does both, or someone from the school for the Deaf that uses ASL as the language of communication. The family chooses their path and the appropriate services are provided.
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It's really suspicious you are the one "offering" a choice to families. You have a huge aversion to sign language, whether it's ASL, bi bi, it doesn't matter. It's very suspicious that the families you work with all seem to want to go the oral/AVT route with you. If you don't use sign, you're not even bringing it into homes and exposing children and families to it. How can they choose without seeing that and having that information? It really doesn't sit well with me you have that sort of power and influence on Deaf children's lives. You want us all to be hearing.
 
zeefour said:
It's really suspicious you are the one "offering" a choice to families. You have a huge aversion to sign language, whether it's ASL, bi bi, it doesn't matter. It's very suspicious that the families you work with all seem to want to go the oral/AVT route with you. If you don't use sign, you're not even bringing it into homes and exposing children and families to it. How can they choose without seeing that and having that information? It really doesn't sit well with me you have that sort of power and influence on Deaf children's lives. You want us all to be hearing.
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No, they get visits from everyone. It is not just from me or my program.
 
zeefour said:
It's really suspicious you are the one "offering" a choice to families. You have a huge aversion to sign language, whether it's ASL, bi bi, it doesn't matter. It's very suspicious that the families you work with all seem to want to go the oral/AVT route with you. If you don't use sign, you're not even bringing it into homes and exposing children and families to it. How can they choose without seeing that and having that information? It really doesn't sit well with me you have that sort of power and influence on Deaf children's lives. You want us all to be hearing.
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Why on earth do you think I want everyone to be hearing? Even if you assume the very worst of me (which isn't true, but for argument's sake) wouldn't I want more deaf children so that I could keep my job? I am actually in the business of putting myself out of business! The better my students do, the quicker they leave me. If they get great intervention in birth-3, and everything goes well, they never even enroll in our school.
 
Teacherofthedeaf said:
As an early interventionist, I go to the family's home. I explain hearing loss and its impacts on development. I explain to the family that there are many different ways to communicate. There are individuals from the other programs in the area that provide services in other ways, including a person with the exact same credentials as mine who comes from the state school for the deaf. The family then decides who they want to get services from. Some families choose me, which would be spoken language only, some choose a therapist who uses spoken language and sign, and some choose ASL as the language of intervention and get services from the school for the Deaf.
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And Its a no wonder WHY the D/deaf have NO say in the matter when it comes to the hearing school SYSTEM. smh! Its time to put a stop to the hearing world of thinking what hearing people think is best for the disabled people who have a mind of their own. Its no wonder why privilege hearing folks think it's their way and their way that works. Last time I check, Father in heaven made us this way and for you to say to be given "provided services" to D/deaf families, that's like saying, being D/deaf is not an option. I know people like you... you are NO different! phony.
 
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