Fla. minister: Sept. 11 Quran burn still planned

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Reba said:
I heard on the radio that FBI agents and local police have "visited" the church today.
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:hmm: What happened to seperation of Church and State?????? Free expression of Religion????

Mind you I am against the burning myself.....
 
Reba said:
I heard on the radio that FBI agents and local police have "visited" the church today.
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And ironically enough, that will cause more resentment against Muslims. Or maybe it was the intent? Who knows? They are just following orders.
 
Beowulf said:
And ironically enough, that will cause more resentment against Muslims. Or maybe it was the intent? Who knows? They are just following orders.
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I agree with the bold....as well as increase resentment toward out government. But I seriously doubt that was the intent.......I know you said maybe.
 
souggy said:
Wirelessly posted



You can neither prove or disprove Islam is a false religion, just like no one can prove or disprove Christianity is a false religion. That is why it is called "faith:" you are placing your blind trust in something you feel exists, but have no way of verifying it. Maybe everyone is wrong and some dead religion in Nepal, from centuries ago, is the only true path, but we won't know that until the time come to meet our Maker(s.)

I think a friend of mine described the conflict between religions quite well: "I don't believe in your god for the same reasons you don't believe in every other gods."
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The Bible can be historically proven, just look at the archeological finds in of itself. The Koran on the other hand cannot be proven, no archeological data has ever been found other than a piece of rock (Statue) that now rests in Mecca at Saudi Arabia (where also their false prophet is laid to rest) that bares the inscription of "Allah" in Arabic.

The only violence in the so called "Christian history" is Catholicism (not proven "Christian" by any means either) and they have done the same thing Islam has done. Cults who claim the "Christian" label have also committed violence.

While Christianity do hold claim to the Old Testament (The Torah) as part of the heritage and have shown violence, but only towards evils of this world.

Claims of Incest, Sodomy and so on only shows lack of knowledge and clear understanding of Scripture and it's history. Lack of understanding of Scripture clearly means the Bible is hidden from understanding on purpose and for good reasons.

That's all I have to say, I've crossed the line a bit with the board's TOS, but not going further on this subject.

Yiz
 
Reba said:
I heard on the radio that FBI agents and local police have "visited" the church today.
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Intimidation tactics of course, but they cannot violate their Free Speech rights.

They may try to lay claim of "Hate Crime", but it's clearly "Free Speech".

They may label it as "Hate Speech" but it's still Free Speech.

Even the KKK and the Neo-Nazis still hold the right to free speech, even though the most majority of us don't have to like it (myself included).

Yiz
 
Wirelessly posted

You got to be kidding me. Every religion on the planet has historical and archaeological evidences to validate their existence and "truth." Having archaeological or historical proofs do not make a religion more valid over the other-- doing so would be accepting every single dead religions and cults are perfectly acceptable to practice.


And protestants don't exactly have a clean history either-- may I point you to the countries Dutch traders touched?
 
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:hmm: No evidence of Hine-nui-te-Po was every found.
 
Pastor Terry Jones is a wolf in sheep's clothing. Just saying..
 
Jiro said:
such as?
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Well for starters, many scoffers said that the High Priest Caiaphas who oversaw the trial of Jesus never existed. Yet they found his tomb excavated in November of 1990....

Caiaphas

Inside was an elaborate Ossuary (bone box) that suffered flood damage when it was discovered, yet the paint on top of it gave a small idea of what it looked like undamage. On the side of the Ossuary bears an inscription of Caiaphas' name.

http://www.english.imjnet.org.il/htmls/popup.aspx?c0=13136&bsp=13030

When I say elaborate, I mean a bone box like that in design would be expensive at it's time. The common bone boxes would be just plain and rather much smaller than the one pictured in the second URL link above. Most bone boxes for the "peasants" of it's time would be big enough to bury just one body and is stacked on top of other bone boxes in the same grave of their family ancestries due to the lack of ground burial spaces due the size of the Israeli State.

In the Ossuary of Caiaphas contained also his wife and children. Often times, the same bone box would be dugged up more than once to entomb the remains of a wife and children.

The burial of a body would be placed in a cave, either from their own property or rented from someone else's property and wait for the body to decay away of it's flesh within a one year time frame and then the tomb reopened to retrieve the bones and placed inside the Ossuary and buried at a family owned plot.

Yiz
 
yizuman said:
Well for starters, many scoffers said that the High Priest Caiaphas who oversaw the trial of Jesus never existed. Yet they found his tomb excavated in November of 1990....

Caiaphas

Inside was an elaborate Ossuary (bone box) that suffered flood damage when it was discovered, yet the paint on top of it gave a small idea of what it looked like undamage. On the side of the Ossuary bears an inscription of Caiaphas' name.

When I say elaborate, I mean a bone box like that in design would be expensive at it's time. The common bone boxes would be just plain and rather much smaller than the one pictured in the second URL link above. Most bone boxes for the "peasants" of it's time would be big enough to bury just one body and is stacked on top of other bone boxes in the same grave of their family ancestries due to the lack of ground burial and the size of the Israeli State.

In the Ossuary of Caiaphas contained also his wife and children. Often times, the same bone box would be dugged up more than once to entomb the remains of a wife and children.

The burial of a body would be placed in a cave, either from their own property or rented from someone else's property and wait for the body to decay away of it's flesh within a one year time frame and then the tomb reopened to retrieve the bones and placed inside the Ossuary and buried at a family owned plot.

Yiz
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so have you seen it in person? and how do we know Priest Caiaphas oversaw Jesus's trial for sure?
 
Jiro said:
so have you seen it in person? and how do we know Priest Caiaphas oversaw Jesus's trial for sure?
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Look into the outside source of the Bible. Have you read the writings of Josephus?

"Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D."

Proving the historic Jesus

Josephus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yiz
 
yizuman said:
Look into the outside source of the Bible. Have you read the writings of Josephus?

"Jewish historian Flavius Josephus, a member of a priestly family and who became a Pharisee at the age of 19, became the court historian for Emperor Vespasian. In the Antiquities, he wrote about many persons and events of first century Palestine. He makes two references to Jesus. The first reference is believed associated with the Apostle James. "...he brother of Jesus, who was called Christ." He also wrote, "At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good and (he) was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them three days after his crucifixion and that he was alive, accordingly, he was perhaps the messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders." These historical writings predated the Old Testament. Josephus died in 97 A.D."

Proving the historic Jesus

Josephus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Josephus on Jesus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yiz
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so how do you know for sure that he wrote it?
 
Reba said:
I heard on the radio that FBI agents and local police have "visited" the church today.
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Could it be they did a bomb sweep? Perhaps they scoped out the area to prepare for security concerns to protect this burning. When President plans to vist somewhere, they send Secret Service ahead for this purpose. I would be shocked if there were no attempts to compromise this event. Somewhere, a house burns while law enforcement is busy providing security to this publicity stunt. Do we really need this?
 
saywhatkid said:
Could it be they did a bomb sweep? Perhaps they scoped out the area to prepare for security concerns to protect this burning. When President plans to vist somewhere, they send Secret Service ahead for this purpose. I would be shocked if there were no attempts to compromise this event. Somewhere, a house burns while law enforcement is busy providing security to this publicity stunt. Do we really need this?
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I don't know the details.
 
saywhatkid said:
Could it be they did a bomb sweep? Perhaps they scoped out the area to prepare for security concerns to protect this burning. When President plans to vist somewhere, they send Secret Service ahead for this purpose. I would be shocked if there were no attempts to compromise this event. Somewhere, a house burns while law enforcement is busy providing security to this publicity stunt. Do we really need this?
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:dunno: are you for giving up rights?

FOXNews.com - Administration Considers Calling Florida Pastor in Bid to Halt Koran Burning
 
Jiro said:
so how do you know for sure that he wrote it?
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You're trying to get me to say, "Faith". But I think you and I know there's a little more to it than that.

You also sound like you rather have someone do all the work themselves rather than actually research it all yourself.

What's really sad is that in some people's faith, they rather lean on that rather than research everything to be sure that the faith that they lean on is confirmed and absolute.

In some people's mind, like Morpheus once said, "The Matrix is a system, Neo. That system is our enemy. But when you're inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters. The very minds of the people we are trying to save. But until we do, these people are still a part of that system and that makes them our enemy. You have to understand, most of these people are not ready to be unplugged. And many of them are so inured, so hopelessly dependent on the system, that they will fight to protect it." - The Matrix (1999)

Replace the word Matrix with Islam or any religion that DEPRIVES one of personal freedom and independent thought.

A true religion ENCOURAGES absolute freedom and freedom of thought to think for one's self and to research their core beliefs that they're being raised in.

Islam does not give that choice, if an Muslim converts to Christianity and if they are discovered, they will be dragged out to be stoned to death. No exceptions. The Koran forbids changing religion in any way, shape and form. Ask anyone that lives in Afghanistan, especially with people in underground Christian churches hiding their faith from the mainstream Muslim community out of fear of being put to death.

You could say the same with any religion (including Christianity) of doing the same thing, but which one?? Catholicism is guilty of doing it. Jim Jones is also guilty of doing it. The vast majority of Muslims hates freedom and only a small handful of people say they don't want to be like the mainstream Muslims. Considering the numbers and it's history.

The main point (and as it should be) is the behavior of the Majority. If any religion deprives one of it's personal freedom and independent thinking, it's not a religion at all, therefore a threat to the rest of the free world.

Yiz
 
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