Fla. minister: Sept. 11 Quran burn still planned

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rockin'robin

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GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The leader of a small Florida church that espouses anti-Islam philosophy said Wednesday he was determined to go through with his plan to burn copies of the Quran on Sept. 11, despite pressure from the White House, religious leaders and others to call it off.

"We are still determined to it, yes," the Rev. Terry Jones told the CBS Early Show.

Jones says he has received more than 100 death threats and has started wearing a .40-caliber pistol strapped to his hip since announcing his plan to burn the book Muslims consider the word of God and insist be treated with the utmost respect. The 58-year-old minister proclaimed in July that he would stage "International Burn-a-Quran Day."

Supporters have been mailing copies of the holy text to his Gainesville church of about 50 followers to be incinerated in a bonfire on Saturday to mark the ninth anniversary of the 9/11 attacks.

Gen. David Petraeus took the rare step of a military leader taking a position on a domestic matter when he warned in an e-mail to The Associated Press that "images of the burning of a Quran would undoubtedly be used by extremists in Afghanistan — and around the world — to inflame public opinion and incite violence."
Gen. Ray Odierno, the former top commander in Iraq, said Wednesday he fears that extremists will use the incident to sow hatred against U.S. troops overseas.

"This feeds right into what they want," Odierno said on NBC's "Today Show. Odierno now heads of U.S. Joint Forces Command.

Jones responded that he is also concerned but is "wondering, 'When do we stop?'" He refused to cancel the protest at his Dove World Outreach Center but said he was still praying about it.

"How much do we back down? How many times do we back down?" Jones told the AP. "Instead of us backing down, maybe it's time to stand up. Maybe it's time to send a message to radical Islam that we will not tolerate their behavior."

Jones gained some local notoriety last year when he posted signs in front of his church declaring "Islam is of the Devil." But his Quran-burning idea attracted wider attention. It drew rebukes from Muslim nations and at home as an emotional debate was taking shape over the proposed Islamic center near the ground zero site of the 2001 terrorist attacks in New York.

His actions most likely would be protected by the First Amendment's right to free speech. The U.S. Supreme Court has made clear in several landmark rulings that speech deemed offensive to many people, even the majority of people, cannot be suppressed by the government unless it is clearly directed to intimidate someone or amounts to an incitement to violence, legal experts said.

The fire department has denied Jones a required burn permit, but he said lawyers have told him he has the right to burn the Qurans, with or without the city's permission.

U.S. Attorney General Eric Holder during a meeting Tuesday with religious leaders to discuss recent attacks on Muslims and mosques around the U.S. called the planned burning idiotic and dangerous, according to a Justice Department official. The official requested anonymity because the meeting was private.

Secretary of State Hillary Rodham Clinton added her disapproval at a dinner in observance of Iftar, the breaking of the daily fast during the Muslim holy month of Ramadan.

"I am heartened by the clear, unequivocal condemnation of this disrespectful, disgraceful act that has come from American religious leaders of all faiths," Clinton said.

Local religious leaders in this progressive Florida city of 125,000 anchored by the sprawling University of Florida campus also criticized the lanky preacher with the bushy white mustache. At least two dozen Christian churches, Jewish temples and Muslim organizations in the city have mobilized to plan inclusive events — some will read from the Quran at their own weekend services. A student group is organizing a protest across the street from the church on Saturday.

Gainesville's new mayor, Craig Lowe, who during his campaign became the target of a Jones-led protest because he is openly gay, has declared Sept. 11 Interfaith Solidarity Day in the city.

David Axelrod, senior adviser to President Barack Obama told CNN Wednesday morning: "The reverend may have the right to do what he's doing but it's not right. It's not consistent with our values ... I hope that his conscience and his good sense will take hold."

In Afghanistan, Jones' planned burning continued to provoke outrage.

"It is the duty of Muslims to react," said Mohammad Mukhtar, a cleric and candidate for the Afghan parliament in the Sept. 18 election. "When their holy book Quran gets burned in public, then there is nothing left. If this happens, I think the first and most important reaction will be that wherever Americans are seen, they will be killed. No matter where they will be in the world they will be killed."

Kabul resident, Rajab Ali said, "If this (burning of the Quran) happens there will be chaos in Afghanistan and being a Muslim, if we don't defend the Quran then what else we can do?"

The Quran, according to Jones, is "evil" because it espouses something other than biblical truth and incites radical, violent behavior among Muslims.

Muslims consider the Quran along with any printed material containing its verses or the name of Allah or the Prophet Muhammad to be sacred. Any intentional damage or show of disrespect Quran is deeply offensive.

Jones' Dove Outreach Center is independent of any denomination. It follows the Pentecostal tradition, which teaches that the Holy Spirit can manifest itself in the modern day. Pentecostals often view themselves as engaged in spiritual warfare against satanic forces.

The world's leading Sunni Muslim institution of learning, Al-Azhar University in Egypt, accused the church of stirring up hate and discrimination, and called on other American churches speak out against it.

Last month, Indonesian Muslims demonstrated outside the U.S. Embassy in Jakarta, threatening violence if Jones goes through with it.

Jones dismisses the response of the other churches as "cowardly."

Fla. minister: Sept. 11 Quran burn still planned - Yahoo! News
 
Just what our troops need; another reason to hate us, another reason to strap the bombs on.
 
The enemy has been killing our troops, contractors, and aid workers without any justifiable reason for years. They don't need a reason to hate us or kill us.
 
The enemy has been killing our troops, contractors, and aid workers without any justifiable reason for years. They don't need a reason to hate us or kill us.

Yup, we should have left the British invaders alone. What is the Constitution but a piece of hemp?
 
The enemy has been killing our troops, contractors, and aid workers without any justifiable reason for years. They don't need a reason to hate us or kill us.
So we should find a way to enrage them even more, while accomplishing nothing else? If we were talking about some kind of military operation, economic sanctions, etc, then I support it. To publicly burn a Koran, simply to enrage, seems like a publicity stunt. Sorry, I cannot see this as helpful in any way. Will it make YOU feel better? I defend his right to do this, but I see nothing beneficial to it.
 
*faceplam* at Jones.

You have no respect to our troops. :mad2:
 
Hate just breeds more hate. Any self-respecting Christian would condemn this. Thankfully, many already have.

Actually, I think the news media is in a position here where they could really help to alleviate the situation. If they choose to instead focus on all the goodwill and support that Christians, along with other religious organizations in the United States and abroad, are showing in defiance of this, it could be a way to get a message across to all but the most radical Muslims that religions can, and should, coexist peacefully.

If there is a huge bloodbath of American troops and citizens abroad, I am going to blame, first and foremost, the media for the way they covered and fanned the flames of this event. It's like everyone wants to actually see some bad shit happen.

Sickening.
 
All of this... Just because the Russkies and the Brits had to play the "Great Game" and the Limeys had to redefine tribal borders in the Middle East and Africa.
 
So we should find a way to enrage them even more, while accomplishing nothing else? If we were talking about some kind of military operation, economic sanctions, etc, then I support it. To publicly burn a Koran, simply to enrage, seems like a publicity stunt. Sorry, I cannot see this as helpful in any way. Will it make YOU feel better? I defend his right to do this, but I see nothing beneficial to it.
Like you, I defend their Constitutional right to free expression of speech. I don't say that I agree with their method. It won't help the situation, I'm sure. I wouldn't partake in it. No, it doesn't make ME feel any better about anything.
 
all aboard the Rage Train.
 
Hate just breeds more hate. Any self-respecting Christian would condemn this. Thankfully, many already have.

Actually, I think the news media is in a position here where they could really help to alleviate the situation. If they choose to instead focus on all the goodwill and support that Christians, along with other religious organizations in the United States and abroad, are showing in defiance of this, it could be a way to get a message across to all but the most radical Muslims that religions can, and should, coexist peacefully.

If there is a huge bloodbath of American troops and citizens abroad, I am going to blame, first and foremost, the media for the way they covered and fanned the flames of this event. It's like everyone wants to actually see some bad shit happen.

Sickening.


:gpost:


Newspaper, radio and television will make big headlines to make the "Christians" if they are true Christians to be rile up. We are suppose to be good Christians by showing them the good ways of being kind, generous, warm, harmony and show respect to women and children. If we do that by burning the Koran or Quran, then we are no better than Muslims are.

Come to think about many thousand of years ago, there has been lots of religion wars that will never stop or halfway stop in Europe. Every religion is different. The white people had made us stop our Native American religion later after they came over from Europe, but we went underground to practice our own Native religion. We are still attending the white church but we do have our native religion to associate with Jesus. Some of them don't. So it was sad. I still wish to have peace on Earth, but it look like it will never have peace. We will be dead by the atomic bomb or what? Our Earth will be back the way it started like Adam and Eve (if that is true???). They will have to start over again like going through repeated. :dunno:
 
So we should find a way to enrage them even more, while accomplishing nothing else? If we were talking about some kind of military operation, economic sanctions, etc, then I support it. To publicly burn a Koran, simply to enrage, seems like a publicity stunt. Sorry, I cannot see this as helpful in any way. Will it make YOU feel better? I defend his right to do this, but I see nothing beneficial to it.

:gpost:

I agree with you. I defend his right to do this, but I also see it as just a political stunt and really nothing will be gained by it. Well, except, to maybe tick some people off and that doesn't really solve anything.
 
Just what our troops need; another reason to hate us, another reason to strap the bombs on.

<puts on flame retardant suit>

They'll strap it on for any reason, no matter what it is. They've converted people by the sword for many centuries. Covert or lose your head.

Islam is a false religion and the founder, who made false prophecies in the past that never came true and worse, a pedophile.

I don't consider Islam to be a religion anyway. It's a sham perpetrated by a phony 1,500 years ago.

Who in anyone's right mind wants to follow that kind of guy?

Yiz
 
<puts on flame retardant suit>

They'll strap it on for any reason, no matter what it is. They've converted people by the sword for many centuries. Covert or lose your head.

Islam is a false religion and the founder, who made false prophecies in the past that never came true and worse, a pedophile.

I don't consider Islam to be a religion anyway. It's a sham perpetrated by a phony 1,500 years ago.


Who in anyone's right mind wants to follow that kind of guy?

Yiz

How? There is over 1 billion people around world are Islam and Islam is part of religion.

There are Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Hindu, Buddhist, etc in around world.
 
How? There is over 1 billion people around world are Islam.

Simple, it starts out small, then it grows. Eventually converting people by the sword, then an army doing the exact same thing. Actually, it's quicker to force people to convert by brandishing a sword right under your chin. I'd say people back then were quick to convert than lose their heads or watch their children lose their heads, either way, it works.

Take a look at the map of the Middle East, all that leg work plus a sword did the trick. They still practice it in some countries today. Others convert by preaching (or brain washing as I prefer to call it).

So let's pretend that somehow USA got overran by Islam and an Islamic government is established. Then some Muslim walks up to you, shoves a gun in your face and says, "Infidel! (means, "unbeliever") Convert to Islam or I blow your head off!" What would you decide?

I'll pick the latter myself.

Yiz
 
Simple, it starts out small, then it grows. Eventually converting people by the sword, then an army doing the exact same thing. Actually, it's quicker to force people to convert by brandishing a sword right under your chin. I'd say people back then were quick to convert than lose their heads or watch their children lose their heads, either way, it works.

Take a look at the map of the Middle East, all that leg work plus a sword did the trick. They still practice it in some countries today. Others convert by preaching (or brain washing as I prefer to call it).

So let's pretend that somehow USA got overran by Islam and an Islamic government is established. Then some Muslim walks up to you, shoves a gun in your face and says, "Infidel! (means, "unbeliever") Convert to Islam or I blow your head off!" What would you decide?

I'll pick the latter myself.

Yiz

Oh my boy.

That's only applies to Islamic extremists, not generally Islamic people.

It would be same goes with Christians too, especially Christian extremists.

I did got too pushed by Christian to convert from atheist/agnostic to Christian and from Native Indian religion to Christian.
 
Wirelessly posted

And this is the reason why religious debates are not allowed.
I love how people forgot what Christians did to covert the Pagans, Jews and Muslims. I am sorry, but anyone who bashes and not acknowledge their own hypocrisy and admit to it really shouldn't be in a debate.
 
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Wirelessly posted

yizuman said:
saywhatkid said:
Just what our troops need; another reason to hate us, another reason to strap the bombs on.

<puts on flame retardant suit>

They'll strap it on for any reason, no matter what it is. They've converted people by the sword for many centuries. Covert or lose your head.

Islam is a false religion and the founder, who made false prophecies in the past that never came true and worse, a pedophile.

I don't consider Islam to be a religion anyway. It's a sham perpetrated by a phony 1,500 years ago.

Who in anyone's right mind wants to follow that kind of guy?

Yiz

You can neither prove or disprove Islam is a false religion, just like no one can prove or disprove Christianity is a false religion. That is why it is called "faith:" you are placing your blind trust in something you feel exists, but have no way of verifying it. Maybe everyone is wrong and some dead religion in Nepal, from centuries ago, is the only true path, but we won't know that until the time come to meet our Maker(s.)

I think a friend of mine described the conflict between religions quite well: "I don't believe in your god for the same reasons you don't believe in every other gods."
 
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I heard on the radio that FBI agents and local police have "visited" the church today.
 
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