FL. Loses Appeal in Terri Schiavo Case

Oceanbreeze said:
No. I would NOT support trying to hand-feed Terri. This woman expressed a wish to die if some kind of catastrophic event took place. To try and give her nourishment would, in my mind, go against her wishes.
Actually, there is no documented proof that Terri "expressed a wish to die". The closest hearsay statement was that Terri did not want to be kept on artificial life support systems. Hand feeding and hydrating is not artificial life support.
 
Just came across the article that is very scathing toward Judge Greer. Just thought I'd post it here, in case anyone is interested in reading it.


JUDGE GREER'S "POWER" TO SEPARATE TERRI SCHIAVO FROM LIFE


By Michael J. Gaynor
MichNews.com
Mar 19, 2005



Checks and balances are good.

Separation of powers is a protection against tyranny.

Where is the check on the tyrannical Judge Greer?

Before a person can be executed by the state, a district attorney has to exercise his or her discretion to prosecute and the governor has to decline to commute the sentence.

A governor is empowered to pardon a convicted mass murderer.

That's a check against judicial abuse.

There's been no check on the judicial abuse in the Terri Schiavo case.

And one has been sorely needed.

No district attorney opted to prosecute her.

Her husband, who had been appointed her legal guardian, went to court for permission to starve her to death.

The mere thought of that should take away one's breath.

Which is what Michael Schiavo and Judge Greer want to do to Terri.

By taking away her feeding tube and her food and water.

A form of execution that Israel did not even inflict on Adolf Eichmann.

And that would swiftly would be ruled cruel and unusual punishment if Terri had been convicted of mass murderer instead of marrying badly.

Terri has not been accorded the rights of a person charged with mass murder.

The Florida state legislature and Governor Bush tried to check Judge Greer's flagrant abuse of judicial power.

But the Florida judiciary called THAT a violation of separation of powers.

And the United States Supreme Court did not intervene.

Which was obscene.

Fortunately, Congress did.

By issuing a subpoena for Terri.

And thereby extending protection to her under federal law.

Only to have Judge Greer charge it with violating Michael Schiavo's right to starve Terri to death and his right to order.

It is Judge Greer who is violating the separation of powers principle.

Amazingly, Long Island's Newsday put a photo of Terri looking far from vegetative on its front page and published an article titled "Exoerts: GOP may have stepped out of bounds."

According to Newsday:

"Many, though not all, of the attorneys interviewed said the likely unprecedented gambit by the House to keep Schiavo alive despite the court-backed wishes of her husband, Michael Schiavo, would likely fail under constitutional scrutiny."

BUT, Newsday concedes:

"Congress has the authority to conduct investigations and issue subpoenas on almost any issue, and can hold those who refuse to honor the summons in contempt, resulting in fines or jail."

Can a Florida trial court judge thwart a Congressional investigation of his own conduct?

Sounds like a conflict of interest to me.

Judge Greer refused to respect the Congressional subpoenas.

Claiming that he saw no "cogent reason" for it.

Since the House had not acted during years of litigation and did not issue subpoenas in other similar cases.

Talk about a separation of powers violation!

Terri's feeding tube was removed and Judge Greer was supported yesterday by a state appellate court and the Florida Supreme Court.

The same Florida judiciary that the United States Supreme Court stopped from stealing the 2000 presidential election from President Bush.

Harvard Law Professor Lawrence Tribe opined that as the House Republicans appeal the decision, federal courts all the way to the United States Supreme Court will uphold Judge Greer because the House action is "a clear violation of the separation of powers."

But, the issue is no longer whether Terri wanted to be starved to death, on which Judge Greer erroneous ruled affirmatively, but whether Congress is entitled to keep her alive pending its investigation.

Leftists should think that one carefully.

A ruling against Congress would be a precedent for concealing judicial abuse and facilitating cover-up.

Tribe further opined that federal authority trumps state authority only when Congress passes a law.

"'It is just not the case that just because [a member of Congress] has the federal stamp on his arm he can barge into a state court and say, 'I'm sorry, I'm whacking you to death,’ Tribe said.’"

Nonsense.

Congress is not trying to whack anyone to death.

To the contrary it's trying to keep Terri alive, until it can investigate, not only for her sake, but for everyone's sake. Especially the elderly and the disabled.

The Constitution allows that, Professor Tribe.

And decent people expect that.

Judge Greer is a registered Republican.

So is the San Francisco judge who ruled that banning "same-sex marriage" is irrational and unconstitutional.

That doesn't make them right.

Righteous Republicans and decent Democrats have much more in common with each other than they do with reprehensible Republicans and diabolical Democrats.

They need to appreciate that.

Georgetown Law Professor Paul Rothstein declined to board Tribe's boat:

"I think the judge [Greer] is making a legal mistake and is vulnerable. Provided that Congress is making legitimate investigations for making law, they have power to seek evidence."

ABSOLUTELY!

And Congress would do well to reflect on this email I received:

"Another point to ponder-if worse comes to worst and Terri Schiavo dies, a question better before, than a question after(the fact) would be, why is she to be cremated and no autopsy to be performed???? WHO is afraid as to what they might find???

"This case has so many questions and I believe so many lies as to their real intentions of hastening her death, that it scares me the public has been so misled into believing this is sane along with the true meaning of 'life support'."

That makes it a job for Congress!



Source: http://www.michnews.com/artman/publish/article_7322.shtml
 
Reba said:
Actually, there is no documented proof that Terri "expressed a wish to die". The closest hearsay statement was that Terri did not want to be kept on artificial life support systems. Hand feeding and hydrating is not artificial life support.

Back when Terri collasped in 1990, Living Wills weren't routinely used to document a person's end of life wishes unless they were already terminally ill. Therefore, the only evidence we can use is hearsay evidence. If Terri's collaspe happened later, maybe, you could use the Living Will argument. However, it doesn't apply. The only way we will ever know what Terri wanted is by through a second or third person, and we appear to have that in this case. It's sad that her parents are diluted into believing she can recover, but she cannot. It's time to let the poor woman go. She has suffered enough.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
... It's time to let the poor woman go. She has suffered enough.
"Letting" Terri "go" is not the same as starving her to death. Also, I guess she hasn't "suffered enough" yet since she will indeed suffer without the fluids that her body requires.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
... Therefore, the only evidence we can use is hearsay evidence.
Even if that "evidence" was true (which no one knows for sure), Terri still did not state that she would not want to be hand fed or receive care and therapy.[/QUOTE]
 
Certinally I'm very upset about it.
Whoever you really want her die.. YOU'RE PART OF MURDER ON YOUR OWN HANDS!

*Breath carried away*
 

Congress OKs Deal to Keep Schiavo on Tube


Compromise Reached on Measure to Allow Federal Court Review of Schiavo Case, Resume Feeding

By SIOBHAN McDONOUGH Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON Mar 19, 2005 — Congress leaders announced agreement Saturday on legislation they said would allow a severely brain-damaged woman to resume being fed while a federal court decides the right-to-die battle between her parents and her husband.

"We think we have found a solution" to the Terri Schiavo case, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a Capitol Hills news conference. "All sides agree that this is the best way to proceed."

Final approval was expected Sunday when the House planned to meet in a special session, he said. The Senate planned to pass a resolution Saturday evening that would let House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., call the House into session on Sunday.

DeLay said President Bush would sign the bill as soon as it got to him.

The compromise was similar to a Senate bill passed Thursday that would let a federal court has jurisdiction in the Schiavo case. House Republicans had favored broader legislation that applied similar cases that questioned the legality of withholding food or medical treatment from people who are incapacitated.

Schiavo's feeding tube was disconnected Friday afternoon. Schiavo, 41, could linger for one to two weeks if no one intercedes and gets the tube reinserted.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said the legislation would move the case to federal court where a judge would determine who has the legal right to decide the question of nutrition and hydration for Schiavo and whether they can be terminated.

Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said the measure was "narrowly targeted," does not set a precedent and would allow Schiavo to resume being fed and hydrated during the legal appeals.

For a decade, a feud has raged between Schiavo's husband, Michael, and her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, who have tried to oust Michael Schiavo as their daughter's guardian and keep in place the tube that has kept her alive for more than 15 years.

Michael Schiavo says his wife told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, saying she could get better and that their daughter has laughed, cried, smiled and responded to their voices.

President Bush's spokesman said Friday that the president supported the congressional efforts. "We appreciate those who are standing on the side of protecting and defending life," Scott McClellan said.

Also Friday, Republicans used their subpoena power to demand that Schiavo be brought before a congressional hearing, with lawmakers saying that removing the tube amounted to "barbarism."

The Florida judge presiding over the case rejected the request from House lawyers to delay the tube's removal. Late Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court, without comment, denied an emergency request from the House committee that issued the subpoenas to reinsert Schiavo's feeding tube while the committee filed appeals in the lower courts to have its subpoenas recognized.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.


Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=596376&page=1


Would Judge Greer still refuse to acknowledge the new bill even if it is signed by President Bush himself? : P
 
I think Judge Greer, Michael and everyone who agrees that this is the right thing to do to a human being should agree to join Terri in starvation and dehydration as a show of solidarity, and to prove how humane it is. Then we can use this as capitol punishment in prisons. And think of the money it will save in animal shelters too. You are right. This is sick.
 
But... again, I am sorry to disagree with you, but she don't even have MRI or PET. A CT scan is not exactly good enough...and besides, it is outdated anyway.

To quote from a doctor concerning CAT scan:
“A CT scan is useful only in pretty severe cases, such as trauma, and also during the few days after an anoxic (lack of oxygen) brain injury. It’s useful in an emergency-room setting. But if the question is ischemic injury [brain damage caused by lack of blood/oxygen to part of the brain] you want an MRI and PET. For subsequent evaluation of brain injury, the CT is pretty useless unless there has been a massive stroke.”

The quote is from this article which I am now posting, and you can read it in full....Starving for a Fair Diagnosis


By the way, just because Terri is brain-damaged doesn't mean her she is totally gone, both mentally and spiritually... YET.

.
 
Toonces said:
But... again, I am sorry to disagree with you, but she don't even have MRI or PET. A CT scan is not exactly good enough...and besides, it is outdated anyway.

To quote from a doctor concerning CAT scan:

The quote is from this article which I am now posting, and you can read it in full....Starving for a Fair Diagnosis


By the way, just because Terri is brain-damaged doesn't mean her she is totally gone, both mentally and spiritually... YET.

.

You're probably gonna find this hard to believe, Toonces, but I agree with you that they should have done a PET scan. This would undoubtedly show quite clearly the structural damage to her brain. I really wish Greer had allowed testing to take place. If they had, the question would be clear and she could be allowed to die in peace.
 
Toonces said:

Congress OKs Deal to Keep Schiavo on Tube


Compromise Reached on Measure to Allow Federal Court Review of Schiavo Case, Resume Feeding

By SIOBHAN McDONOUGH Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON Mar 19, 2005 — Congress leaders announced agreement Saturday on legislation they said would allow a severely brain-damaged woman to resume being fed while a federal court decides the right-to-die battle between her parents and her husband.

"We think we have found a solution" to the Terri Schiavo case, House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, said at a Capitol Hills news conference. "All sides agree that this is the best way to proceed."

Final approval was expected Sunday when the House planned to meet in a special session, he said. The Senate planned to pass a resolution Saturday evening that would let House Speaker Dennis Hastert, R-Ill., call the House into session on Sunday.

DeLay said President Bush would sign the bill as soon as it got to him.

The compromise was similar to a Senate bill passed Thursday that would let a federal court has jurisdiction in the Schiavo case. House Republicans had favored broader legislation that applied similar cases that questioned the legality of withholding food or medical treatment from people who are incapacitated.

Schiavo's feeding tube was disconnected Friday afternoon. Schiavo, 41, could linger for one to two weeks if no one intercedes and gets the tube reinserted.

Rep. James Sensenbrenner, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee, said the legislation would move the case to federal court where a judge would determine who has the legal right to decide the question of nutrition and hydration for Schiavo and whether they can be terminated.

Sensenbrenner, R-Wis., said the measure was "narrowly targeted," does not set a precedent and would allow Schiavo to resume being fed and hydrated during the legal appeals.

For a decade, a feud has raged between Schiavo's husband, Michael, and her parents, Bob and Mary Schindler, who have tried to oust Michael Schiavo as their daughter's guardian and keep in place the tube that has kept her alive for more than 15 years.

Michael Schiavo says his wife told him she would not want to be kept alive artificially. Her parents dispute that, saying she could get better and that their daughter has laughed, cried, smiled and responded to their voices.

President Bush's spokesman said Friday that the president supported the congressional efforts. "We appreciate those who are standing on the side of protecting and defending life," Scott McClellan said.

Also Friday, Republicans used their subpoena power to demand that Schiavo be brought before a congressional hearing, with lawmakers saying that removing the tube amounted to "barbarism."

The Florida judge presiding over the case rejected the request from House lawyers to delay the tube's removal. Late Friday, the U.S. Supreme Court, without comment, denied an emergency request from the House committee that issued the subpoenas to reinsert Schiavo's feeding tube while the committee filed appeals in the lower courts to have its subpoenas recognized.

Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.


Source: http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory?id=596376&page=1


Would Judge Greer still refuse to acknowledge the new bill even if it is signed by President Bush himself? : P
Now that is truly f**ked up ever I seen. I agree with Oceanbreeze that Congress shouldn't interfere these family situations (i.e. take the decisions out of the hands of families). It is beyond insane and madness.

Codger, war is not humane thing either yet certain Congress rally for the war and also peeing on thousands and thousands of suffering lives in Iraq. They have been suffering for two years now... tens or hundreds of thousands of them. And wait, there is more... about children and their health plus deaths that I mentioned in my previous post. Now certain politicans in White House are talking about how inhumane that removing the feed tube will be (ONLY ONE PERSON... ONLY ONE LIFE)... I gotta love these hypocrites, they are damn good at it (hypocritical thingy). It will be my first time that I agree with Tousi and his statement: This national drama is the pits cos there are probably dozens of people who die like this everyday and no hue and cry is raised up! That's what I am trying to say in my previous post! (plus this post too)

Anyway, as always, my gut is right on the money, that they will replug the feed tube in. btw, I must admit that I am disgusting with this starvation/dehydration situation... surely there is other best way to release her and let her soul rest in peace (I am not surprise if this moment, her soul is suffering greatly, poor soul)... That's where I need to talk to my lawyer again to rework my statement so that's way these certain politicans cannot pee on my wishes if I am in Schiavo's situation. Of course, my opinion about whether it is right or wrong for them to do that or not stays out of this topic because I get this feeling that all of us didn't get the full story... even with these articles and news that AD'ers posted. Something is definitely missing or I can say: "Something wrong with this picture".

Everyone, take my advice into consideration: Make sure to rework your statements in your will if you didn't... or type down the new will if you haven't, to protect yourself from these certain money-leeching politicans, even your families.
 
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Oceanbreeze said:
You're probably gonna find this hard to believe, Toonces, but I agree with you that they should have done a PET scan. This would undoubtedly show quite clearly the structural damage to her brain. I really wish Greer had allowed testing to take place. If they had, the question would be clear and she could be allowed to die in peace.



Yeah....MRI or PET scan would really be very helpful to clear the big question once and for all. Judge Greer is a fool not to take advantage of the new and improved medical technology to resolve the question. : P
 
Magatsu said:
Now that is truly f**ked up ever I seen. I agree with Oceanbreeze that Congress shouldn't interfere these family situations (i.e. take the decisions out of the hands of families). It is beyond insane and madness.

Codger, war is not humane thing either yet certain Congress rally for the war and also peeing on thousands and thousands of suffering lives in Iraq. They have been suffering for two years now... tens or hundreds of thousands of them. And wait, there is more... about children and their health plus deaths that I mentioned in my previous post. Now certain politicans in White House are talking about how inhumane that removing the feed tube will be (ONLY ONE PERSON... ONLY ONE LIFE)... I gotta love these hypocrites, they are damn good at it (hypocritical thingy). It will be my first time that I agree with Tousi and his statement: This national drama is the pits cos there are probably dozens of people who die like this everyday and no hue and cry is raised up! That's what I am trying to say in my previous post! (plus this post too)

Anyway, as always, my gut is right on the money, that they will replug the feed tube in. btw, I must admit that I am disgusting with this starvation/dehydration situation... surely there is other best way to release her and let her soul rest in peace (I am not surprise if this moment, her soul is suffering greatly, poor soul)... That's where I need to talk to my lawyer again to rework my statement so that's way these certain politicans cannot pee on my wishes if I am in Schiavo's situation. Of course, my opinion about whether it is right or wrong for them to do that or not stays out of this topic because I get this feeling that all of us didn't get the full story... even with these articles and news that AD'ers posted. Something is definitely missing or I can say: "Something wrong with this picture".

Everyone, take my advice into consideration: Make sure to rework your statements in your will if you didn't... or type down the new will if you haven't, to protect yourself from these certain money-leeching politicans, even your families.

You're right, Magatsu. What Congress is doing it totally wrong! It also won't stand. The sad thing is it's going to be another year or so before all this winds to a halt, and her tube is pulled again. I must clarify something. She is not suffering. She is completely unaware of what is going on around her. I know. I've read the "evidence" to the contrary, and I assert that those people are so blinded by their cause that they will say anything. I absolutely do not believe this woman has any cognitive abilities whatsoever. There's also nothing that is going to sway my opinion in this matter.
 
"(ONLY ONE PERSON... ONLY ONE LIFE)... "

Ok. that convinced me. Kill her. Dehydrate her. I've seen people die from that. A bullet to the head is a lot better. Seen that too. A cut femoral is best though. One little snip. And you just go to sleep. Messy though. Kevorkian uses gas. He says it is good for a kill.
 
Oceanbreeze said:
... She is not suffering. She is completely unaware of what is going on around her. I know.
How can you "know"? How do we know that you are not any more delusional than you claim Terri's parents are?

I guess it is easier to accept Terri's starvation if you can convince yourself that she feels no pain. That is the same rationalization that pro-abortion supporters use. They say the unborn baby feels no pain during the abortion. They also dehumanize the baby, calling it "fetal tissue", just as you have dehumanized Terri by calling her a "carcass".
 
Oceanbreeze said:
You're right, Magatsu. What Congress is doing it totally wrong! It also won't stand. The sad thing is it's going to be another year or so before all this winds to a halt, and her tube is pulled again. I must clarify something. She is not suffering. She is completely unaware of what is going on around her. I know. I've read the "evidence" to the contrary, and I assert that those people are so blinded by their cause that they will say anything. I absolutely do not believe this woman has any cognitive abilities whatsoever. There's also nothing that is going to sway my opinion in this matter.
You have a point there. As I said before, there is definitely missing in this case. I don't know what it is... I bet that in time, certain people will find the 'missing' link or something in this messy case. I wonder is it possible for me to find her will or something? I mean, is her will open to the public? I would like to read...


Codger: Ok. It appears that someone failed to see my point. I should've expect that, I suppose. Praise the Lord!
 
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Magatsu said:
I wonder is it possible for me to find her will or something? I mean, is her will open to the public? I would like to read...
If Terri had a living will or a DNR document, her wishes would already be known. She did not have a living will.

If Terri has a regular last will and testament, then it would not be available to the public until after it was probated. It cannot be probated until after she dies.
 
So we disagree and you make fun of my religious beliefs which I haven't even mentioned. You do your Japanese comic book charactor proud Magatsu.
 
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