FL Baker: We’re Getting Death Threats over Refusal to Make Anti-Gay Cake

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Death threats and other threats of violence from either side is totally unacceptable. :mad:
 
Reba said:
Death threats and other threats of violence from either side is totally unacceptable. :mad:
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Yes, I'm getting tired of war over personality vs. businesses.

In my opinion, it is very UNETHICAL for gay people to do business with someone who are anti-gay.

It will be part of my class project about ethics and businesses.
 
Foxrac said:
Yes, I'm getting tired of war over personality vs. businesses.

In my opinion, it is very UNETHICAL for gay people to do business with someone who are anti-gay.

It will be part of my class project about ethics and businesses.
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That should be an interesting project.

I'm curious what your criteria would be in deciding if a business is anti-gay or not. For example, with the bakery, suppose they serve lots of gay customers for all their baked goods such as cookies, birthday cakes, brownies, etc. Suppose the only product the bakery won't provide is wedding cakes for same-sex couples because their religion teaches that would be a sin for them to participate in. The bakery won't make cakes for gay weddings even if the cake is ordered by straight people. Would that be an anti-gay business?
 
Foxrac said:
Yes, I'm getting tired of war over personality vs. businesses.

In my opinion, it is very UNETHICAL for gay people to do business with someone who are anti-gay.

It will be part of my class project about ethics and businesses.
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Well, IMO, gay people can do whatever they want. For example, a black person won't go to a store because the store owner hates black people. Does that sound fair? I don't think so. That black person is a human being so is a gay person.

If an owner who is anti-gay makes the best cakes locally, should gay people avoid his store and look for another store that makes lousy cakes?
 
Reba said:
That should be an interesting project.

I'm curious what your criteria would be in deciding if a business is anti-gay or not. For example, with the bakery, suppose they serve lots of gay customers for all their baked goods such as cookies, birthday cakes, brownies, etc. Suppose the only product the bakery won't provide is wedding cakes for same-sex couples because their religion teaches that would be a sin for them to participate in. The bakery won't make cakes for gay weddings even if the cake is ordered by straight people. Would that be an anti-gay business?
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It isn't my type to label anyone as anti-gay anymore, except for outrageous comments, especially from Fred Phelps, Tony Perkins, Brian Brown and Bryan Fischer.

Business owners could refuse to make a cake or other products that against their belief or views so they shouldn't penalized by government. If I own a business and someone ask me to make cross cake so I will decline it because of my atheist, but I have two choice - decline it or take it for $$$$.

I left Christianity last year and returned to atheist after widespread of anti-gay attacks that occurred on FB and some of Christians extremely attacked me after I shared about my views so I'm not going to deal with nitwits.

Personally, I don't see business owner as anti-gay if they refuse to make a wedding cake, but probably lesser term and they should worry about overall business, not unnecessary labeling. Being anti isn't make you as bad person.
 
CrazyPaul said:
Well, IMO, gay people can do whatever they want. For example, a black person won't go to a store because the store owner hates black people. Does that sound fair? I don't think so. That black person is a human being so is a gay person.

If an owner who is anti-gay makes the best cakes locally, should gay people avoid his store and look for another store that makes lousy cakes?
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Unfortunately, it is difficult to comparison between blacks and gay.

I don't think it is fair to force business owner that oppose to gay marriage to make a wedding cake for gay couples, also it could turn into war between pro-gay and anti-gay, especially on social media and it hurt our economy very much if you want to harm the businesses for totally harmless action like "I can't make a wedding cake for gay men because it is against my religious belief" so that's harmless and you could go to other bakeries so there are many bakeries over USA.

If you think that bakery is lousy so why you don't open your own business to make a best cake? Competition is key word to force businesses to improve the products.
 
Thank you for your explanation.
 
Foxrac said:
Unfortunately, it is difficult to comparison between blacks and gay.

I don't think it is fair to force business owner that oppose to gay marriage to make a wedding cake for gay couples, also it could turn into war between pro-gay and anti-gay, especially on social media and it hurt our economy very much if you want to harm the businesses for totally harmless action like "I can't make a wedding cake for gay men because it is against my religious belief" so that's harmless and you could go to other bakeries so there are many bakeries over USA.

If you think that bakery is lousy so why you don't open your own business to make a best cake? Competition is key word to force businesses to improve the products.
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Oh sure, there are plenty of bakery in a city but in a small town, maybe one or two bakery. When I visited my friend who lived in a small town which had only one jewelry store where he worked, suppose that the store won't let gay people buy a ring there, do they have to drive 50 miles to buy a ring?
 
CrazyPaul said:
Oh sure, there are plenty of bakery in a city but in a small town, maybe one or two bakery. When I visited my friend who lived in a small town which had only one jewelry store where he worked, suppose that the store won't let gay people buy a ring there, do they have to drive 50 miles to buy a ring?
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How business owner know if you are gay?

You could basically lie and say that I buy for my BFF or my relative.
 
Foxrac said:
How business owner know if you are gay?

You could basically lie and say that I buy for my BFF or my relative.
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Oh, for example, is it a bad idea that my partner and I come to the only one jewelry store who opposes gay people to buy a wedding ring? The partner (female or male) has to be there for the finger size. It's ridiculous that I have to lie to cover up while I am only a human being.

Well, there will be a law that require them to serve all kinds of people someday. Time always change. It's modern times so people have to change sooner or later.
 
CrazyPaul said:
Oh, for example, is it a bad idea that my partner and I come to the only one jewelry store who opposes gay people to buy a wedding ring? The partner (female or male) has to be there for the finger size. It's ridiculous that I have to lie to cover up while I am only a human being.

Well, there will be a law that require them to serve all kinds of people someday. Time always change. It's modern times so people have to change sooner or later.
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It will not possible due to US Supreme Court.

We have to balance between liberties.

If you asked to leave because of you are gay so you are protected under anti-discrimination (public accommodation).

If you ask for gay wedding cake so it is not guaranteed if they willing to make for you, that's product so the product is not covered under anti-discrimination.
 
Foxrac said:
It will not possible due to US Supreme Court.

We have to balance between liberties.

If you asked to leave because of you are gay so you are protected under anti-discrimination (public accommodation).

If you ask for gay wedding cake so it is not guaranteed if they willing to make for you, that's product so the product is not covered under anti-discrimination.
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It doesn't matter whether it is a product or service, it will change. You see, under federal law, you and your future spouse (gay partner) can write up as a married couple (for tax purposes and others such as life insurance, wills, etc). That thing has changed. Other things like between anti-gay businesses and gay customers will change, too. It takes time. There are many churches that let gay Christians in today. That didn't happen before. I think the Pope approves gay marriage, didn't he?
 
CrazyPaul said:
It doesn't matter whether it is a product or service, it will change. You see, under federal law, you and your future spouse (gay partner) can write up as a married couple (for tax purposes and others such as life insurance, wills, etc). That thing has changed. Other things like between anti-gay businesses and gay customers will change, too. It takes time. There are many churches that let gay Christians in today. That didn't happen before. I think the Pope approves gay marriage, didn't he?
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Any chance to pass federal anti-discrimination law for LGBT is virtually none so it is left to state, but if US Supreme Court says that business owners have rights to not make a wedding cake that oppose to their belief so it will not matter anymore and you have to find someone that support LGBT to make a cake for you. Why are you continuing to buy a cake from business that are anti-gay and that's not make any sense.

Gay marriage is controversial topic like abortion - it has been for 40 years now but half of population oppose to abortion.

Do you want to see ugly war between pro-gay and anti-gay?

I prefer to compromise with between of them.
 
Foxrac said:
Any chance to pass federal anti-discrimination law for LGBT is virtually none so it is left to state, but if US Supreme Court says that business owners have rights to not make a wedding cake that oppose to their belief so it will not matter anymore and you have to find someone that support LGBT to make a cake for you. Why are you continuing to buy a cake from business that are anti-gay and that's not make any sense.

Gay marriage is controversial topic like abortion - it has been for 40 years now but half of population oppose to abortion.

Do you want to see ugly war between pro-gay and anti-gay?

I prefer to compromise with between of them.
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Remember those old days in that many businesses refused service to mixed-racial (black and white) married couples. Do they still do that today?
 
Foxrac said:
Any chance to pass federal anti-discrimination law for LGBT is virtually none so it is left to state, but if US Supreme Court says that business owners have rights to not make a wedding cake that oppose to their belief so it will not matter anymore and you have to find someone that support LGBT to make a cake for you. Why are you continuing to buy a cake from business that are anti-gay and that's not make any sense.

Gay marriage is controversial topic like abortion - it has been for 40 years now but half of population oppose to abortion.

Do you want to see ugly war between pro-gay and anti-gay?

I prefer to compromise with between of them.
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Half of us? I don't believe that.

Sounds like you are a coward. Sorry to say that.
 
CrazyPaul said:
Half of us? I don't believe that.

.
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It's near half mark give or take for pro choice vs pro life depending which population you survey in the US. Again, remember what this thread is about, religious beliefs and that has role in pro life stance population as well.

Half is fair guess. 40/60 in one part, 60/40 in another, 48/42 etc

edit.

fox: it is admirable that you seeking solution for both sides by compromising to end this.
 
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CrazyPaul said:
Remember those old days in that many businesses refused service to mixed-racial (black and white) married couples. Do they still do that today?
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Only in southern states but not anymore.

Abortion and gay marriage are controversial in all states, not limit to southern states, even more people in Wyoming oppose to gay marriage than South Carolina and Georgia.
 
Foxrac said:
Only in southern states but not anymore.

Abortion and gay marriage are controversial in all states, not limit to southern states, even more people in Wyoming oppose to gay marriage than South Carolina and Georgia.
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Not anymore? See, they have changed because time changes. My point is that when time changes, it changes people's thinking and they start to accept it. I believe that Europeans are much better than us because they accept those changes willingly. Even Christians there are open-minded.
 
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