Feelings on how a Deaf child should be taught

Trying to understand exactly what Bi-Bi means

Can someone give me a more detailed description of a Bi-Bi school--as compared to a Total Communication school? I am really trying to understand--I think I am getting it, but I am not sure I have actually seen Bi-Bi "in action." Also, is there a web site or other resource that kind of compares deaf schools throughout the US--especially when it comes to communication philosophies and environment? It is clear what an "oral school" is like--their communicaton philosophy and environment is clearly stated. But it seems that deaf schools can vary greatly on this issue--is there a way to research other schools without having to drive to many different states? Sometimes when I check out the school web sites, it isn't always so clear what the environment is like there--of course, they all want to put forth their best image on their web sites and they all will brag about being "the best". Parents need a more unbiased resource--just a straight forward description about various schools. I guess a wonderful resource would be message boards for each school where parents could talk about their children's experiences there. You know how many schools are sometimes discussed on Great Schools.com? A place like that to discuss each deaf school would be SO helpful to parents! :) If anyone knows of anything like that please let us parents know--it could be VERY helpful. Not everyone can move their child to a different state to attend a certain state school for the deaf, but it would be helpful to have a place to compare and contrast them--and to really explain the communication environment at each school would be great!
 
All due respect, but perhaps your daughter cannot imagine any other way because she knows no other way. She has no basis for comparison. Many a hearing parent has assumed that their child was happy with an oral umbringing and that they had no desire for any other way, when actually it was that they had no other way to compare their existence to. You can learn a lot from the deaf adults who were beleived by teachers and parents to be perfectly happy as oral deaf children and teens, who got by with their HAs and their oral skill, and then talk of the feeling of being whole and complete for the first time in their lives when they found the deaf/Deaf community and ASL. It is a very common story.

:gpost: Jillio! :)
 
TC is a very old philosophy. It is a lot of talking and signing at the same time. It has been proven to provide a very bad English model and a very bad ASL model too. Most schools and teachers are moving away from TC.
Bi-bi uses both ASL and English (mostly written, but spoken for students who have the ability and desire) but the key is that they are always seperate. ASL is used as the language of instruction because it is able to be accessed 100% by all children with any level of hearing loss.

As for your daughter not ever being "voice off" herself...time will tell. My very good Deaf friend went to CID (a highly presitigous private oral deaf school) and graduated with honors. She is brillant and so "talkative". I can harldly get a word in and we chat for hours and hours. But since she went to college (MANY years ago) and learned ASL, she barely uses her voice anymore. She still wears a hearing aid, and I know she can lipread very well, ecause she often corrects my interpreting! And she is not the only one I have met with the same story. My daughter's principal at her bi-bi school wears two aids and I had no idea she was even Deaf when she spoke....seriously, I thought she had a retainer, she has a tiny lisp. Again, she uses ASL whenever she can, she won't voice. I have spoken to so many Deaf adults, almost all were raised orally, many thrived, a few failed, but all of them now use ASL as their primary language.
 
TC is a very old philosophy. It is a lot of talking and signing at the same time. It has been proven to provide a very bad English model and a very bad ASL model too. Most schools and teachers are moving away from TC.
Bi-bi uses both ASL and English (mostly written, but spoken for students who have the ability and desire) but the key is that they are always seperate. ASL is used as the language of instruction because it is able to be accessed 100% by all children with any level of hearing loss.

As for your daughter not ever being "voice off" herself...time will tell. My very good Deaf friend went to CID (a highly presitigous private oral deaf school) and graduated with honors. She is brillant and so "talkative". I can harldly get a word in and we chat for hours and hours. But since she went to college (MANY years ago) and learned ASL, she barely uses her voice anymore. She still wears a hearing aid, and I know she can lipread very well, ecause she often corrects my interpreting! And she is not the only one I have met with the same story. My daughter's principal at her bi-bi school wears two aids and I had no idea she was even Deaf when she spoke....seriously, I thought she had a retainer, she has a tiny lisp. Again, she uses ASL whenever she can, she won't voice. I have spoken to so many Deaf adults, almost all were raised orally, many thrived, a few failed, but all of them now use ASL as their primary language.

:gpost: That is exactly what happen to me when I was in both elementary and high school in the mainstream and mostly oral. I really don't understand what is going in the regular hearing classroom but in the special education I tried to understand the teacher with the headphone from her microphone. Later on when I was in the tenth to twelve grades full time in the regular hearing classroom, I had very difficult time to understand the teachers because I did not have any interpreters or notetakers at all. That is why I need ASL in the Deaf program in the schools but we did not have those back in the middle fifties and middle sixties. I tried to protest to the principal along with the other deaf students who were in my special education class. We tried to tell the principal that we want ASL and sign language interpreter and also have one teacher who knows ASL in the special education classroom. But no, the principal said that English sign language or ASL are bad and we should not learn how to use ASL. He wants us to learn lipread and speak oral all the way through which make our life miserable. That is why after I graduate from High School. I was very happy to learn and use ASL all the way and communicate with Deaf people (socialize with Deaf people and Hard of Hearing people with ASL is very important) and we love it very much. That is the reason why hearing mainstream school need to change their thinking that it would be better to have Bi-Bi method than oral method. It is like why do hearing parents sign to the hearing babies but not to the deaf babies, which is not fair and that is the question we are puzzled about. Hearing people don't know what is like to be deaf in our childhood life that is an upside down world and silent. If hearing parents want to sign "baby sign language" to the babies, both hearing and deaf/hoh. That would be great to communicate with all family members who are willing to use ASL just for the child or children only. Just help them and it really make their world a big difference in their lives. I know what I am talking about from my own experience as a Deaf child growing up oral and want to use ASL and be in the Deaf communities. Being :deaf: is here to stay and don't try to fix her to improve her hearing. Good luck with your daughter and hope she find happiness what she is looking for in her deaf world. Later when she is old enough she will tell you and make the decision on what she want for education program. Give her time. :cool2:
 
Thanks for the input!

I appreciate the advice from everyone. I am really trying as hard as I can to get my daughter the best education possible. Maybe, when I look back, I did some things right and some things wrong--but I did my very best. I think I did a LOT more for my daughter than some parents would--I refused to tell her, sorry but where we live the resources are not available so you just have to deal with what is here...not everyone CAN move for their kids to get a better education, but I know some people who would NOT go...mostly because THEY didn't want to move. My theory has always been: if they set up a school or resource on the moon and I think it would help my daughter, I would go!! NOTHING will stop me from trying as hard as I can to advocate for her and help her. So we have moved to 3 different places just to find her the help she needed--and now we are going to move again for her upcoming high school years.

What worked in early intervention needed to be changed for her preschool years--what worked during her preschool years no longer worked when she was ready for school--what worked in her elementary years is no longer working in her teen years. And then, what she needs post-high school, hopefully college and training for a career, there will be another move involved--probably just her going off to prepare for her adult life alone. I hope she finds the right resources for herself at that point--I want her to be as independent as possible. We all know "young adults", both hearing and deaf, who seem afraid to go out on their own and conquer the world as free and independent adults. My goal for my daughter is this: to become as educated and prepared as possible so that she will be completely ready/willing/and able to "fly away" on her own when she reaches adulthood.

I would love to see her get a college degree, but she is not sure if she wants to do that--some of it depends on things like making high scores on tests like ACT and SAT--she has trouble with standardized tests. But...with a great high school education, she may make great strides and do fine. Even if she does not end up with a college degree, she needs to achieve as much as she can during high school so that she can be on a good path for her future. In other words, all education is important(each year), but her high school years are very important in determining her future path in life. It is extremely important that she be at the "right school for her" during those years.

As I picture her future, I just don't see a large public mainstreamed high school setting as the best setting for her. I honestly think that she would just get lost in the crowd, not be involved in anything, be ignored, and probably not get such a great education overall. There is a lot of talk around here about the low graduation rate of all high school students in our state--many "regular" kids start high school and drop out before graduating. That would NOT be a good path for my daughter to be on!! Honestly, I don't know what the statistics are in other states, but I think graduation rates are dropping everywhere--average kids are not making it to their high school graduations in public schools all over the US--it makes a parent think twice about sending kids to public high schools!! Still, we cannot afford private schools, and I am not ready to give up on finding GOOD public schools. For my son, he has three more years of high school--he has always been in public school--he seems to be doing fine--I think he will continue to do fine in public schools when we move--I think he will stay in the public school system but in a different state and district. My daughter--private preschool and public elementary and middle school--things went well in the beginning and are beginning to sour now--looking ahead to high school and not seeing good things in the future for her at the big public schools--she needs something different. When looking at big high schools that my son would probably do well in, I just don't think that my daughter would thrive--and maybe not even survive to graduation. For her, I think a GOOD deaf school would be the best thing for her high school years.

If she does go to college, I think one such as Galludet, the one in Rochester, or the one in California(haven't begun to research these much yet) would be good--schools with lots of deaf people instead of going to a "regular" college with little or no deaf people--I think that would be good for her and she would be happy. It will be all up to her by then, though--whatever she chooses, I am behind her 100 percent. Ideally, if she makes a few really close friends during her time at the deaf school during her high school years, maybe some of them can all go off to college together--that would be cool!!

When she was young, I could never even imagine what she would be like as a teenager and young adult--now, she is there and nearing adulthood. What I thought then is very different than what I think now--I made decisions for her based on what I knew at the time. Now, I can see that things I never would have thought would be in the picture (imagine being at an AG Bell convention and talking about Galludet!) are now things we may be considering.

Everything has to be completely based on each individual child--I did some things like other people, and some things differently, based solely on what MY daughter needed--not what other people thought deaf children needed. In the beginning, a hearing parent has NO idea what in the world it means to have a deaf child--please try to understand where we are coming from--we NEVER had ANY idea about ANYTHING regarding deafness until our children were diagnosed as being deaf. Yes, we mourned--of course we mourned--we thought our kids would never hear us say "I love you" and would never say it back. Then, we see other deaf kids who DO say those words and more--it is completely understandable why we, as hearing parents, would like for our kids to talk to us--it is all WE know. But there was NO forcing or meanness or whatever some people may have experienced--I simply gave her hearing aids and talked to her and played with her--lots and lots of love and talking. Soon, without any negative overtones, my daughter just began picking up language orally just as my hearing son had done--she was only slightly behind because she didn't get diagnosed and get hearing aids until she was 19 months old. I just continued to love her and talk to her--oh, and we did introduce signs to her but she stopped using them when she could use the words instead.

Anyway--as hearing parents, that is all we knew and our daughter quickly begun to talk to us--we thought this was a good thing. We were encouraged to get to know people through AG Bell--we heard some of their ideas--some we agreed with and some we did not. For example, we did put her in an oral deaf preschool to help her get her language "caught up" completely before starting school. Some oral schools try to mainstream them early, some seem to want to hold on to them for as long as possible. We decided to move and get her into public school from kindergarten--we left the oral school then. There were some AVT therapists who did not think we should use the special education resources at the public school--but my daughter began showing a need for extra help, so we DID use it--and she improved.

Anyway--time went on and the social issues began to come into play. Now, according to people we met through AG Bell and oral schools, by the time these kids are in high school, they think they should be in the mainstream. That is why there are NO oral schools that go through high school. We have met some of the kids who are in big mainstreamed public schools--you know, the STARS!!--and most of them said things like: I am like everyone else and I have lots of friends--some of them said "who needs deaf friends"--some of them were cheerleaders and homecoming kings/queens and seemed to be fitting in just fine in regular schools. Well, good for them--but my daughter is different. This isn't about being an "oral success" and being able to successfully communicate with hearing people--my daughter can do that just fine. And this isn't about needing highly specialized education because they can't keep up in regular schools--my daughter is doing pretty well academically. This is really about social issues--she WANTS to go to school with people like HER!!! I get it!! So, to all of the AG Bell people and oral school people who don't understand why an "oral success" like my daughter would want to go to a deaf school--to all of those who would act like we are "taking a step backwards" in some way--to all of those who think all deaf teenagers should go to regular mainstreamed schools--they just do not get it--not all, and I think maybe very few--deaf teenagers feel like they fit in "just fine" at regular schools--especially during their teen years.

See, as a parent, I am basing my decision solely on my daughter's needs, not on any specific philosophy or anything. The "oral side" says one thing, the "Deaf community" says another--I have to base my decision on what my daughter needs, not on either sides beliefs. So, that is a hearing parent's perspective. I have changed my views over the years depending on how my daughter is doing. She was happy at times, and not at other times--I am trying to get her back on a track that will make her happy. And I think that one day we will show up at an AG Bell convention or an oral school and tell them WHY they need to be a bit more flexible about some of these issues--plus, I guess we need to also talk to people who don't think any deaf people should talk--my daughter can tell them why she enjoys talking. I am not sure why some people don't seem to think that it is possible for a deaf person to WANT to continue talking. If she ever decides to be silent, that will be fine--I just don't think it is really "her"--and I know her better than anyone else. There must be SOME people you guys know that DO love being in both worlds--that will never give up speaking--surely you don't assume that all deaf people who learn ASL and become part of the Deaf world at times never look back--there surely are some that like to be a part of BOTH worlds. I cannot predict the future, but knowing my daughter, I think she will be very happy in BOTH worlds and will not ever leave either one behind completely. She is blessed, in a way--she will know MANY people in BOTH worlds. I just want to see her become a happy and healthy adult--my intentions are perfectly noble. And I love her exactly as she is--no matter how she "turns out" as an adult, she will ALWAYS be loved! :)
 
I appreciate the advice from everyone. I am really trying as hard as I can to get my daughter the best education possible. Maybe, when I look back, I did some things right and some things wrong--but I did my very best. I think I did a LOT more for my daughter than some parents would--I refused to tell her, sorry but where we live the resources are not available so you just have to deal with what is here...not everyone CAN move for their kids to get a better education, but I know some people who would NOT go...mostly because THEY didn't want to move. My theory has always been: if they set up a school or resource on the moon and I think it would help my daughter, I would go!! NOTHING will stop me from trying as hard as I can to advocate for her and help her. So we have moved to 3 different places just to find her the help she needed--and now we are going to move again for her upcoming high school years.

What worked in early intervention needed to be changed for her preschool years--what worked during her preschool years no longer worked when she was ready for school--what worked in her elementary years is no longer working in her teen years. And then, what she needs post-high school, hopefully college and training for a career, there will be another move involved--probably just her going off to prepare for her adult life alone. I hope she finds the right resources for herself at that point--I want her to be as independent as possible. We all know "young adults", both hearing and deaf, who seem afraid to go out on their own and conquer the world as free and independent adults. My goal for my daughter is this: to become as educated and prepared as possible so that she will be completely ready/willing/and able to "fly away" on her own when she reaches adulthood.

I would love to see her get a college degree, but she is not sure if she wants to do that--some of it depends on things like making high scores on tests like ACT and SAT--she has trouble with standardized tests. But...with a great high school education, she may make great strides and do fine. Even if she does not end up with a college degree, she needs to achieve as much as she can during high school so that she can be on a good path for her future. In other words, all education is important(each year), but her high school years are very important in determining her future path in life. It is extremely important that she be at the "right school for her" during those years.

As I picture her future, I just don't see a large public mainstreamed high school setting as the best setting for her. I honestly think that she would just get lost in the crowd, not be involved in anything, be ignored, and probably not get such a great education overall. There is a lot of talk around here about the low graduation rate of all high school students in our state--many "regular" kids start high school and drop out before graduating. That would NOT be a good path for my daughter to be on!! Honestly, I don't know what the statistics are in other states, but I think graduation rates are dropping everywhere--average kids are not making it to their high school graduations in public schools all over the US--it makes a parent think twice about sending kids to public high schools!! Still, we cannot afford private schools, and I am not ready to give up on finding GOOD public schools. For my son, he has three more years of high school--he has always been in public school--he seems to be doing fine--I think he will continue to do fine in public schools when we move--I think he will stay in the public school system but in a different state and district. My daughter--private preschool and public elementary and middle school--things went well in the beginning and are beginning to sour now--looking ahead to high school and not seeing good things in the future for her at the big public schools--she needs something different. When looking at big high schools that my son would probably do well in, I just don't think that my daughter would thrive--and maybe not even survive to graduation. For her, I think a GOOD deaf school would be the best thing for her high school years.

If she does go to college, I think one such as Galludet, the one in Rochester, or the one in California(haven't begun to research these much yet) would be good--schools with lots of deaf people instead of going to a "regular" college with little or no deaf people--I think that would be good for her and she would be happy. It will be all up to her by then, though--whatever she chooses, I am behind her 100 percent. Ideally, if she makes a few really close friends during her time at the deaf school during her high school years, maybe some of them can all go off to college together--that would be cool!!

When she was young, I could never even imagine what she would be like as a teenager and young adult--now, she is there and nearing adulthood. What I thought then is very different than what I think now--I made decisions for her based on what I knew at the time. Now, I can see that things I never would have thought would be in the picture (imagine being at an AG Bell convention and talking about Galludet!) are now things we may be considering.

Everything has to be completely based on each individual child--I did some things like other people, and some things differently, based solely on what MY daughter needed--not what other people thought deaf children needed. In the beginning, a hearing parent has NO idea what in the world it means to have a deaf child--please try to understand where we are coming from--we NEVER had ANY idea about ANYTHING regarding deafness until our children were diagnosed as being deaf. Yes, we mourned--of course we mourned--we thought our kids would never hear us say "I love you" and would never say it back. Then, we see other deaf kids who DO say those words and more--it is completely understandable why we, as hearing parents, would like for our kids to talk to us--it is all WE know. But there was NO forcing or meanness or whatever some people may have experienced--I simply gave her hearing aids and talked to her and played with her--lots and lots of love and talking. Soon, without any negative overtones, my daughter just began picking up language orally just as my hearing son had done--she was only slightly behind because she didn't get diagnosed and get hearing aids until she was 19 months old. I just continued to love her and talk to her--oh, and we did introduce signs to her but she stopped using them when she could use the words instead.

Anyway--as hearing parents, that is all we knew and our daughter quickly begun to talk to us--we thought this was a good thing. We were encouraged to get to know people through AG Bell--we heard some of their ideas--some we agreed with and some we did not. For example, we did put her in an oral deaf preschool to help her get her language "caught up" completely before starting school. Some oral schools try to mainstream them early, some seem to want to hold on to them for as long as possible. We decided to move and get her into public school from kindergarten--we left the oral school then. There were some AVT therapists who did not think we should use the special education resources at the public school--but my daughter began showing a need for extra help, so we DID use it--and she improved.

Anyway--time went on and the social issues began to come into play. Now, according to people we met through AG Bell and oral schools, by the time these kids are in high school, they think they should be in the mainstream. That is why there are NO oral schools that go through high school. We have met some of the kids who are in big mainstreamed public schools--you know, the STARS!!--and most of them said things like: I am like everyone else and I have lots of friends--some of them said "who needs deaf friends"--some of them were cheerleaders and homecoming kings/queens and seemed to be fitting in just fine in regular schools. Well, good for them--but my daughter is different. This isn't about being an "oral success" and being able to successfully communicate with hearing people--my daughter can do that just fine. And this isn't about needing highly specialized education because they can't keep up in regular schools--my daughter is doing pretty well academically. This is really about social issues--she WANTS to go to school with people like HER!!! I get it!! So, to all of the AG Bell people and oral school people who don't understand why an "oral success" like my daughter would want to go to a deaf school--to all of those who would act like we are "taking a step backwards" in some way--to all of those who think all deaf teenagers should go to regular mainstreamed schools--they just do not get it--not all, and I think maybe very few--deaf teenagers feel like they fit in "just fine" at regular schools--especially during their teen years.

See, as a parent, I am basing my decision solely on my daughter's needs, not on any specific philosophy or anything. The "oral side" says one thing, the "Deaf community" says another--I have to base my decision on what my daughter needs, not on either sides beliefs. So, that is a hearing parent's perspective. I have changed my views over the years depending on how my daughter is doing. She was happy at times, and not at other times--I am trying to get her back on a track that will make her happy. And I think that one day we will show up at an AG Bell convention or an oral school and tell them WHY they need to be a bit more flexible about some of these issues--plus, I guess we need to also talk to people who don't think any deaf people should talk--my daughter can tell them why she enjoys talking. I am not sure why some people don't seem to think that it is possible for a deaf person to WANT to continue talking. If she ever decides to be silent, that will be fine--I just don't think it is really "her"--and I know her better than anyone else. There must be SOME people you guys know that DO love being in both worlds--that will never give up speaking--surely you don't assume that all deaf people who learn ASL and become part of the Deaf world at times never look back--there surely are some that like to be a part of BOTH worlds. I cannot predict the future, but knowing my daughter, I think she will be very happy in BOTH worlds and will not ever leave either one behind completely. She is blessed, in a way--she will know MANY people in BOTH worlds. I just want to see her become a happy and healthy adult--my intentions are perfectly noble. And I love her exactly as she is--no matter how she "turns out" as an adult, she will ALWAYS be loved! :)

:gpost:

As a former oral deaf person who learned ASL at the age of 25, I still use my speech skills when needed and no, I dont do the "pen and paper" route when ordering things or communicating because I worked hard and suffered big time for my speech skills so I will use them. I just wish I had both growing up. Yes, I use my speech skills a lot less now but regardless of how little I use it, most hearing people can understand me most of the time when I do use it so I guess I havent lost my skills. It is the receptive part that was the difficult part for me.
 
Learning ASL

My daughter has been exposed to ASL a lot during the past school year--she was in a deaf/hh program at the public school. She learned a bit, but not a lot. She is 13, and if I can get her to FSDB in the next year or so, I hope that she can learn more ASL--enough to become fluent. For those who learned ASL later in life (as opposed to learning from infancy), did you learn simply by watching and communicating with others, did you teach yourself through books/DVDs/ other methods, or did you take classes specifically to learn ASL? I am wondering how my daughter can become more proficient and fluent--does anyone know if they have classes specifically to teach ASL at FSDB, or is it just a "you'll pick it up because you'll be around it" kind of thing? The only thing I worry about, and I didn't get that feeling at FSDB, is the time between arriving at a deaf school and becoming fluent in ASL. When we visited, we saw people talking and signing. We didn't observe any classes that were totally silent and ASL only. I guess that is what a Bi-Bi school would be like--and that really would not be a good fit for my daughter who is just learning ASL. I mean, total immersion can be good in some situations, but not when you are trying to learn other subjects. She would not do well at a school that ONLY used ASL with voice off because she would be lost academically--she is not yet fluent in ASL. She needs to be taught ASL to become fluent. Does anyone have info about this "transition phase" regarding learning enough ASL to be considered fluent?
 
Don't look at the methods. Look at the child. What does THE CHILD need? There you will find your answer of what method to use.

The needs of each child is unique. What works for one child may not work for another.

I am 100% with you. Give what the child needs. I work with children mainstrem and I ajusts to their needs and it works.
 
Deborah,

I feel like you are making a lot of assumptions about your daughter. You say that she is happy that she was raised orally, and that she is glad she wasin the mainstream, but she isn't grown yet. She isn't to the point where she can make these decisions for herself. These things may change....

I think you should cut Deborah some slack. She is not just making baseless assumptions but relying upon her knowledge of her daughter from her unique role as her parent and as her posts demonstrate, she is a very dedicated, caring and concerned parent who is involved and in tune with her daughter's needs and life. She also has the benefit of those 13 years with her daughter to form the basis of her opinion as to what the future will likely hold for her daughter.

I think we can all agree that no one can predict the future but I think we all understand, at least most of us do, that she is not saying what will definitely happen but what is most likely to occur based upon the present and the past. The fact that the possibility that an improbable event may occur is not a reason to discount what is most likely to occur based upon a parent's extensive experience and knowledge of their own child.

Deborah, I really enjoy your posts, they are truly genuine and heartfelt. I wish you and especially, your daughter best of luck in your school search.
Rick
 
My daughter has been exposed to ASL a lot during the past school year--she was in a deaf/hh program at the public school. She learned a bit, but not a lot. She is 13, and if I can get her to FSDB in the next year or so, I hope that she can learn more ASL--enough to become fluent. For those who learned ASL later in life (as opposed to learning from infancy), did you learn simply by watching and communicating with others, did you teach yourself through books/DVDs/ other methods, or did you take classes specifically to learn ASL? I am wondering how my daughter can become more proficient and fluent--does anyone know if they have classes specifically to teach ASL at FSDB, or is it just a "you'll pick it up because you'll be around it" kind of thing? The only thing I worry about, and I didn't get that feeling at FSDB, is the time between arriving at a deaf school and becoming fluent in ASL. When we visited, we saw people talking and signing. We didn't observe any classes that were totally silent and ASL only. I guess that is what a Bi-Bi school would be like--and that really would not be a good fit for my daughter who is just learning ASL. I mean, total immersion can be good in some situations, but not when you are trying to learn other subjects. She would not do well at a school that ONLY used ASL with voice off because she would be lost academically--she is not yet fluent in ASL. She needs to be taught ASL to become fluent. Does anyone have info about this "transition phase" regarding learning enough ASL to be considered fluent?

There is a heavy question in research regarding language acquisition according to Peter Paul, who does a lot of educational research in this area: Can language be learned through direct instruction or must it be acquired naturally? I'm with Vygotsky on this, especially with deaf children. Deborah, what you will need to do is make sure her IEP reflects her unique communication and academic needs. While she is in class being exposed to ASL - the teachers need to make sure that there are accommodations and modifications that are provided to make sure that she is getting her academic needs met. For example, the teacher can provide an outline of what is being discussed that includes notes, the teacher can use an overhead projector, Powerpoint, or Smartboard that includes what is being presently discusses, etc. The teacher should use a lot of reflective questions to make sure she is catching everything, use study guides, and have frequent one-on-one conferencing. You also can request services in which she can take formal sign language classes at a local community college or even through the school.

The best way for her, and anyone else learning a new language, to learn is through social interaction. Direct instruction is helpful - but it should be used as a supplement. And you should also know that most of us deaf ed teachers are used to this situation...it is VERY COMMON for us to have students come in and do not know sign language. Most of us have already put the accommodations and modifications in our lesson plans for this very reason.
 
I think you should cut Deborah some slack. She is not just making baseless assumptions but relying upon her knowledge of her daughter from her unique role as her parent and as her posts demonstrate, she is a very dedicated, caring and concerned parent who is involved and in tune with her daughter's needs and life. She also has the benefit of those 13 years with her daughter to form the basis of her opinion as to what the future will likely hold for her daughter.

I think we can all agree that no one can predict the future but I think we all understand, at least most of us do, that she is not saying what will definitely happen but what is most likely to occur based upon the present and the past. The fact that the possibility that an improbable event may occur is not a reason to discount what is most likely to occur based upon a parent's extensive experience and knowledge of their own child.

Deborah, I really enjoy your posts, they are truly genuine and heartfelt. I wish you and especially, your daughter best of luck in your school search.
Rick

I agree with you Rick. She's really trying hard to make the right decisions for her daughter and we all should be supportive with words of encouragment.
 
Deborah...the school will make accodomations for your daughter if she is not fluent in ASL yet. At my school, we get many children referred from the mainstreamed programs who are oral with absulote no fluency in ASL. We assign staff to work with them using spoken English. The kids pick up on ASL during social time. The reason for this is cuz academics is very important and we dont want any kid to miss out on anything that is being taught and if the kid is not fluent in ASL, we will adjust to meet their needs but with the understanding that both language are always kept separate.
 
I just don't understand why most parents of deaf children seek advice from places like AG Bell instead of deaf adults. Who knows more about the experience of being deaf, political leader and teacher or actual deaf people...just feels like a no-brainer to me.
 
I just don't understand why most parents of deaf children seek advice from places like AG Bell instead of deaf adults. Who knows more about the experience of being deaf, political leader and teacher or actual deaf people...just feels like a no-brainer to me.

When we were seeking advice for our daughter after she became deaf, deaf adults who were part of AGBell, as well as CICI, were some of the best sources of information and inspiration. If you knew anything about AGBell then you would know that many of its members are deaf adults. Further, the experiences of those who are in constant contact with the deaf community but are not deaf, should not be discounted as they can offer a different perspective.

We sought advice from many who were part of the deaf community and conventions such as AGBell's afforded us the opportunity to meet and talk to literally hundreds of deaf adults, parents of deaf children, deaf educators, audiologists, cochlear implant teams, etc. all gathered in one place. Taking advantage of that opportunity to benefit our daughter was the real "no-brainer".
Rick
 
As I was growing up in my childhood years (i'm 14 and a half but will be 15 on august 26th) I had speech therapy for maybe 12 years or 11 years. I had speech therapy when i was 3 or 4 years old. And i'm still continuing on taking speech therapy in order of my parents. But as for sign langauge... I was taught english sign language instead of ASL. I see the difference between english and ASL. My interpreter taught me english when i was in kindergarden and in the first grade. Then I was moved to St.Ritas school for the deaf which is in Ohio and 2 hrs away from my home. But i didn't really like to go to St.Ritas because It was 2 hrs away. So I decided to go back to hearing schools. I always have speech therapy and I use sign langauge with my interperter while talking. I have gone thru so much people that I grew up with, totally seen my difference with my speech. Even my family. With the help of my CI and hearing aid it helped alot. My current interpreter is teaching me a few ASL while I sign english SL. But she understands me pretty good. She graduated in Wright state Collage in ohio when i was in the 6th grade which was 2006. so she has been my interpreter with me for 3 years and will be my interpreter again next year as freshman with me.
 
I just don't understand why most parents of deaf children seek advice from places like AG Bell instead of deaf adults. Who knows more about the experience of being deaf, political leader and teacher or actual deaf people...just feels like a no-brainer to me.

Through AG Bell, we met MANY deaf people who were oral--it wasn't just hearing parents and deaf children--we met lots of oral deaf adults. Watching deaf people dance to music at the family dance--talking to deaf adults who are HAPPY to be able to hear and speak--listening to deaf people talk about their lives as oral deaf adults--it was definitely inspirational! For my daughter, people like Heather Whitestone were GREAT role models. Also, at other types of events, we met deaf and hard of hearing people with a variety of communication modes. Perhaps the most motivating was a very sweet deaf woman who had two hearing children. We communicated by writing notes back and forth. Her hearing loss was about like my daughter's--NOT profound, but pretty severe. The main thing she told me was that she WISHED that she had more speech training--she WISHED she had more options--she WISHED she could speak to her hearing children better. This very nice deaf woman told me that she WISHED she had been raised orally and that if she had deaf children, she would definitely send them to an oral school. Yes, she was still proud of ASL, but she knew that her hearing children needed more. We also met people who were hard of hearing--not deaf--who said they can talk on the phone and things like that. We also met people who were late deafened--they spoke fine and said that they are learning ASL but will not stop talking because English is their first language. AND we met a few Deaf couples--all of them had hearing children. One woman out of all of these people we met said things regarding being raised orally but "giving up her voice", using ASL only at home (and her hearing children were speech delayed), etc. As hearing and speaking parents, we naturally were more inclined to listen to the majority of people we met who said that, with hearing aids and some speech therapy, our daughter should be able to speak just fine--and she did! Within the whole entire world of deafness and hearing loss(of all levels), there are many different people with many different beliefs. We mostly came into contact with people--deaf adults--who were oral and were happy about it. There is definitely more than one way to feel when you are deaf or hard of hearing--not everyone thinks and feels the same way. When our daughter was young, we happened to meet people who were happy being oral deaf--not everyone who is raised orally feels as negatively as some seem to feel. Still, the SOCIAL issue is really a completely different thing--being completely in the hearing world with NO deaf friends is not good either. THAT is why oral deaf people need to socialize together as much as ASL only Deaf people--everyone just wants to be around people who are most like themselves.
 
Hi!

As I was growing up in my childhood years (i'm 14 and a half but will be 15 on august 26th) I had speech therapy for maybe 12 years or 11 years. I had speech therapy when i was 3 or 4 years old. And i'm still continuing on taking speech therapy in order of my parents. But as for sign langauge... I was taught english sign language instead of ASL. I see the difference between english and ASL. My interpreter taught me english when i was in kindergarden and in the first grade. Then I was moved to St.Ritas school for the deaf which is in Ohio and 2 hrs away from my home. But i didn't really like to go to St.Ritas because It was 2 hrs away. So I decided to go back to hearing schools. I always have speech therapy and I use sign langauge with my interperter while talking. I have gone thru so much people that I grew up with, totally seen my difference with my speech. Even my family. With the help of my CI and hearing aid it helped alot. My current interpreter is teaching me a few ASL while I sign english SL. But she understands me pretty good. She graduated in Wright state Collage in ohio when i was in the 6th grade which was 2006. so she has been my interpreter with me for 3 years and will be my interpreter again next year as freshman with me.

So you are about to begin high school--how exciting! I wish you all the best! My daughter is one year younger than you--she will be in the 8th grade in the fall. Will there be any other deaf students at the high school? That is my daughter's number one concern--deaf girls to be friends with and deaf boys to date! :) She still can have hearing friends and date hearing boys, but she wants to go to a deaf school so she won't be one of the only deaf students at regular school. We are trying to move to Florida so that she can go to FSDB--she is not happy with the high school here. I hope you are happy where you are--good luck! :)
 
So you are about to begin high school--how exciting! I wish you all the best! My daughter is one year younger than you--she will be in the 8th grade in the fall. Will there be any other deaf students at the high school? That is my daughter's number one concern--deaf girls to be friends with and deaf boys to date! :) She still can have hearing friends and date hearing boys, but she wants to go to a deaf school so she won't be one of the only deaf students at regular school. We are trying to move to Florida so that she can go to FSDB--she is not happy with the high school here. I hope you are happy where you are--good luck! :)


haha thanks. Well i'm currently having a crush on a hearing guy who also might possibly be having a crush on me as I found out by another hearing girl. I grew up with a hearing family and a hearing background. But I socialize with deaf people as much as I can. As your questions about other deaf people at the high school, the answer is no. I am going to be the only deaf student with a CI and a hearing aid at my high school next year. But I know this teacher who teaches ASL at the high school and she is going to be retiring this year and i won't be able to see her next year. With St.Ritas school for the deaf, I wasn't really happy about going there. It didn't really feel right to me. I felt like I should go to hearing school where I think feels better to me. (no offense :roll:) But At least i survive a hearing middle school by me being the only deaf/hard of hearing 14 and a half teenage girl. I hope i'll survive high school AND the marching band as a percussionist. :D
 
There is a heavy question in research regarding language acquisition according to Peter Paul, who does a lot of educational research in this area: Can language be learned through direct instruction or must it be acquired naturally? I'm with Vygotsky on this, especially with deaf children. Deborah, what you will need to do is make sure her IEP reflects her unique communication and academic needs. While she is in class being exposed to ASL - the teachers need to make sure that there are accommodations and modifications that are provided to make sure that she is getting her academic needs met. For example, the teacher can provide an outline of what is being discussed that includes notes, the teacher can use an overhead projector, Powerpoint, or Smartboard that includes what is being presently discusses, etc. The teacher should use a lot of reflective questions to make sure she is catching everything, use study guides, and have frequent one-on-one conferencing. You also can request services in which she can take formal sign language classes at a local community college or even through the school.

The best way for her, and anyone else learning a new language, to learn is through social interaction. Direct instruction is helpful - but it should be used as a supplement. And you should also know that most of us deaf ed teachers are used to this situation...it is VERY COMMON for us to have students come in and do not know sign language. Most of us have already put the accommodations and modifications in our lesson plans for this very reason.

Well said. Vygotsky defiantely has it right when it comes to language acquisition. It really is a shame that more parents don't understand the difference between acquisition and directed learning, and the way in which they affect fluency and creative use of language.
 
As I was growing up in my childhood years (i'm 14 and a half but will be 15 on august 26th) I had speech therapy for maybe 12 years or 11 years. I had speech therapy when i was 3 or 4 years old. And i'm still continuing on taking speech therapy in order of my parents. But as for sign langauge... I was taught english sign language instead of ASL. I see the difference between english and ASL. My interpreter taught me english when i was in kindergarden and in the first grade. Then I was moved to St.Ritas school for the deaf which is in Ohio and 2 hrs away from my home. But i didn't really like to go to St.Ritas because It was 2 hrs away. So I decided to go back to hearing schools. I always have speech therapy and I use sign langauge with my interperter while talking. I have gone thru so much people that I grew up with, totally seen my difference with my speech. Even my family. With the help of my CI and hearing aid it helped alot. My current interpreter is teaching me a few ASL while I sign english SL. But she understands me pretty good. She graduated in Wright state Collage in ohio when i was in the 6th grade which was 2006. so she has been my interpreter with me for 3 years and will be my interpreter again next year as freshman with me.

My son attended St. Rita. Its a small world.:D
 
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