Celticty
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They already started on the steps here on it being another language because I am getting a Foreign language credit. So steps are being made.
Feelings on how a Deaf child should be taught
- Thread starter Celticty
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They already started on the steps here on it being another language because I am getting a Foreign language credit. So steps are being made.
WOW! Good for you! I am also studying Linguistics and the department won't accept Sign as my alternate language of choice - Yet!
Celticty
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Well that is the key word right there "Yet" Because I believe they will one day.
deafbajagal
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In the United States, we have Total Communication as well as BI-BI - both are different. Total Communication means that the teacher uses all kinds of ways to communicate with the child (American Sign Language, English-based sign language (which reflects the spoken language), pictures, with and without voicing; Sim-Com (signing and speaking at the same time); gestures; writing, etc.). Bi-Bi means that the teacher uses two different languages in the classroom: American Sign Language and English (sign language, voice or without voice, and written). My personal opinion as a Deaf teacher of the Deaf - TC is not very effective because it can be confusing for the students and there is not really one strong consistent communication method for the students. They also really don't get a strong foundation in at least one language. As for the comment about deaf teachers as oppose to hearing teachers - some people feel the same way (I don't). Some deaf people feel that having a NATIVE language user teaching the children the language serves them best.
deafbajagal
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I'm curious - when you say 11 other official languages in South Africa - did you mean sign languages or spoken languages?
deafbajagal
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This makes sense, thank you. Any tips on being able to tell on the emotional? Everyone is helping me to understand this more. Honestly this is one thing I have thought about alot and you are all helping me. I appreciate it. Keep the information flowing.
What I mean is that even though as a student I was making good grades, the school failed to look at my communication and social needs. I would go to school for weeks at a time without really ever talking to one single person. No one at my school could fully communicate with me in sign language. I never understood what was going on (school events, annoucements on the intercom, what the kids were saying, what my teacher was saying, etc.) And they never considered HOW I was able to maintain such good grades - I had to spend extra hours (and hours and hours) just to keep my head above the water. I was very dedicated to being a good student...but I finally had a breakdown and was exhausted. I would spend my weekends trying to study so that I could keep up with what was being done in classes...when I should have been able to be a teenager and hung out with friends like everybody else. I was very isolated. I could quote Shakespeare like crazy, read at the college-level, passed my standardized scores with high marks, my GPA as at the top of the class, etc...but I didn't know how to order food from a restaurant. I didn't know how to carry on a normal conversation. I didn't even know the names of my teachers or the kids that I saw every single day. So that's what I mean when I say - look at the whole child.
Great description!
You did a great job painting the picture of how you felt--thanks for the descriptive scene!
Using that scene, and trying to put myself in my daughter's shoes, I would say that HER scene is a bit different. As far as her grades, that has been quite a roller coaster experience--in the early grades, she did fine and the grading system was less stringent, then later she seemed to just "get by" with low Cs(and had to watch so many kids around her receive awards when she did not), and this year(in a deaf/hofh program) she made As and Bs and was on the honor roll(she was SO proud!). There wasn't really a "lack of communication"--for the most part, she communicated quite well with everyone through the years("oral success"--she seems able to communicate her thoughts and feelings just fine to the "hearing world") and she heard much of what was said to her(although there is ALWAYS something missed when in groups and when lots of people are talking). She wore an FM system in most educational settings--with the teachers' voices directly in her ear, she says that she heard most of it. Still, hearing the words and truly understanding everything that they said are two different things. She could repeat back many things word-for-word with near-perfect diction and syntax, but sometimes she just didn't really "get" the concept that was trying to be conveyed through those words. At that point, her grades were "okay"--she was "getting it" just enough to pass, but missing a lot, too(and the things she missed brought her grades down).
In social situations such as lunch and p.e., things didn't always go so well for her. At times, she had a friend or two to sit with in lunch--they would sit close and talk some but the noise of the lunchroom mostly meant that they would eat and "people watch." Often, my daughter said that she would sit alone at lunch--"no one wanted to sit with me" she would say(OUCH!--that hurts!). In p.e., things often went wrong--apparently she must have had several instances when she didn't fully understand what she was suppose to do, and she must have had some embarrassing situations when she didn't "follow directions"--often, she begged to get out of her p.e. classes because she "didn't want people to laugh at her." Once again, OUCH!! Through the years, she had several acquaintances, but not many real friends--socially, she was sometimes teased, but mostly she was ignored and left out. She rarely was invited to parties or sleepovers, and we saw many groups of girls hanging out and having fun, totally oblivious to my daughter as they passed by her. OUCH, OUCH, OUCH!! This lack of social inclusion really adds up through the years. I found myself often wanting to "find her a best friend"--but this never really worked out as planned. She has to make her own friends, I cannot pick them for her--and I cannot MAKE other kids be friends with mine. Once she was old enough to begin understanding what was going on around her socially, she started expressing her desire to go to school with other kids like herself--oral deaf. Even though she IS "oral" and loves being "oral" and has no desire to not be "oral", she just calls herself "deaf". To her, "deaf" means what SHE thinks it means--people very much like her who wear hearing aids and talk to each other. She IS beginning to see the sign language aspect, and she wants to learn it so that she can communicate with other deaf people who may not talk, but she says that she REALLY wants to be friends with some girls "just like her." She says that she could write notes with someone if they couldn't talk to her, but she really wants a friend that "wears hearing aids and talks to me." I get it--it makes complete sense--she is who she is and doesn't want to change but she wants to meet others like herself--she doesn't want to "become hearing" and fit in completely by denying her deafness, she doesn't want to "become Deaf" and give up her hearing through hearing aids and voice through speaking--she just wants to be HERSELF, a girl who is "deaf" and wears hearing aids and talks and is learning some sign language. And she wants to go to school with and be friends with people like HERSELF--not "hearing" without understanding how she feels and not "silent Deaf" without understanding how valuable listening and speaking is to her. To her, the ideal situation would be to go to school with lots of deaf people--some who talk, some who sign, some who do both--and she will talk to those who talk(those will probably be her best friends because they are most like her), learn sign so she can communicate with those who sign(and write notes if they don't understand each other), and do both with those who do both(change mode of communication depending on the situation).
Back to describing the scene of my daughter in the mainstream--she is not in a silent world there. She mostly talks with adults--she is very outgoing when in comfortable situations--she often has to be told to STOP talking and get to work--all of the teachers and adults say that she is so sweet because she is always saying nice things to them(that's a pretty dress, can I see a picture of your baby--awww she is SO cute!, your are the best teacher ever!). When it comes to talking to other students, she is kind of shy--she has some people that she carries on lengthy conversations with, and there may be some people who have had class with her all year and have never heard her speak. It all depends on the situation and how comfortable she feels--if she feels uncomfortable, she will "clam up" and not say anything(I was a shy hearing child and sometimes did the same thing). One things she HATES--speaking in front of a classroom full of students--that is VERY embarrassing to her(and also was very embarrassing to me when I was her age, too). So, all-in-all, my daughter talks a lot during the day--mostly to adults and sometimes to students when she feels comfortable. There isn't a communication barrier--it is more about feeling comfortable and confident. Some of this is about personality--in some situations she is quite extroverted, but in many situations she is often introverted. For the most part, she knows everyone's name and they know hers--she talks to those who she feels comfortable with, and does not talk to those who make her feel "different" in some way.
Hearing what is going on around her--school events sometimes were in large rooms with lots of background noise(she followed loud events fine, but sometimes had trouble tuning out other noises in some situations), she says that she always heard the intercom(often loud and hurt her ears though), in a quiet room with one student talking at a time--she usually heard what they said, in a loud room with lots of people talking--just a bunch of noise and hard to hear much of anything worthwhile, teachers using the fm system--heard them fine right in her ear--or heard them fine one-on-one without fm, teachers speaking to a large class without microphone--hear some but miss a lot.
Studying--homework--extra work--she worked very hard and sometimes took a long time to do things that others did quickly--sometimes she would "shut down" and "give up"--many times, she stated that she hated homework, or hated a particular subject, or didn't like a teacher, etc.--if her grades were struggling she often blamed the teacher because she says she "didn't understand" and the teacher "wouldn't help her." When her grades are good and she didn't have too much homework, she sometimes says that she likes a certain subject and loves her teachers. It is hard to enjoy school when you work hard but still don't make good grades--it is easier to enjoy it when you are succeeding and being rewarded.
My daughter is not the over-achieving student that you described--she is willing to work hard but she isn't really willing to "go the extra mile." She doesn't quote Shakespeare, read at the college-level, pass standardized tests with high scores, or have the top GPA in her class. But she does write and sing the lyrics of popular songs, reads almost at grade level, struggles with standardized tests, and made the AB honor roll this year.
She has no problem ordering her own food from restaurants--and asking for substitutions on the menu--and asking for drink refills and/or condiments. But she IS worried about things like adding up the bill, figuring out the tip, etc.--not a big need right now but will be in the future. She listens to a lot of popular music--sometimes she turns her stereo up loud like a typical teenager--sometimes she takes out her hearing aids and uses the headphones from CD players and mp3s(turns it up loud like a typical teenager, too!).
She sings along a lot--sometimes she misses or misunderstands the lyrics and sometimes she gets them perfectly right--she is a bit "tone deaf" and sings a bit "off key"(but so do I and so do many of our hearing family members!). She goes to movies and seems to have no problem following them--hasn't ever tried captioning at the theater but may be something to try one day. She watches television often and loves to use the closed captioning feature--so do I!--it is amazing what we ALL miss without it!--she often asks me what a certain word means because she saw it on the captioning(great for vocabulary development!). She loves to watch DVDs and always turns on the subtitles first--if someone has forgotten to do it, she says "Hey! Where are the words!" When we have been at events that used real-time captioning, we BOTH follow it religiously--it is SUCH a big help to everyone, hearing and deaf alike!--we wish EVERYTHING had real-time captioning!! We have been at events that had Jumbo screens but no captioning--why in the world do they not have captioning!--it would help SO MANY people(both hearing and deaf!).
So this is a detailed description of my daughter's daily life as an oral deaf person in the hearing world and mainstreamed schools. This is a portrait of "the whole child" from her unique perspective. She is VERY happy to hear with her hearing aids and speak with people on a daily basis. She has no regrets being "raised orally"--she is very thankful for her listening and speaking abilities. BUT she is a bit resentful about the mainstreaming into regular schools and being the only deaf student. It didn't bother her when she was younger--younger kids were pretty accepting of her and she fit in fine in most instances. But as she aged and matured, things became tougher. Academically, things were harder. Socially, things were harder. Older kids and adolescents are much less accepting of differences--fitting in is harder to do at that age when there is obviously something that make you stand out and feel different. All she wants to do is "fit in"--like ALL teenagers want to do!! As she approaches high school, she is weighing her options. She COULD continue in the mainstream--she might do okay academically--she might just "get by"--or she might struggle and fail--it is hard to predict. It is the social aspect that stands out the most--she doesn't want to try out for sports or other things if she is going to be the only deaf person on the team or in the group. She would probably continue to just have "acquaintances" but no TRUE friends. She might would be teased, but most likely, she would just be ignored and left out. This just doesn't seem like a good option for her. She really wants to try a deaf school for high school--she hopes teachers of the deaf will be patient with her and give her the help that she needs--she hopes to make good grades and do well in a deaf school environment--she is more willing to try out for sports and other activities if everyone else on the team or in the group is deaf, too--and she REALLY looks forward to making other deaf friends who are just like her! We are trying very hard to move and get her placed in an excellent deaf school soon--I hope it turns out to be the experience that she is dreaming of!--I hope she makes lots of great memories, lots of good friends, and gets on the right track to an enjoyable and productive future. I told her that I am sorry that she was not happy in the mainstream and that I will do whatever I can to help her get to a place where she IS happy. I only hope that making this change will truly be the best thing for her--I am thinking positively about it right now!
You did a great job painting the picture of how you felt--thanks for the descriptive scene!
Using that scene, and trying to put myself in my daughter's shoes, I would say that HER scene is a bit different. As far as her grades, that has been quite a roller coaster experience--in the early grades, she did fine and the grading system was less stringent, then later she seemed to just "get by" with low Cs(and had to watch so many kids around her receive awards when she did not), and this year(in a deaf/hofh program) she made As and Bs and was on the honor roll(she was SO proud!). There wasn't really a "lack of communication"--for the most part, she communicated quite well with everyone through the years("oral success"--she seems able to communicate her thoughts and feelings just fine to the "hearing world") and she heard much of what was said to her(although there is ALWAYS something missed when in groups and when lots of people are talking). She wore an FM system in most educational settings--with the teachers' voices directly in her ear, she says that she heard most of it. Still, hearing the words and truly understanding everything that they said are two different things. She could repeat back many things word-for-word with near-perfect diction and syntax, but sometimes she just didn't really "get" the concept that was trying to be conveyed through those words. At that point, her grades were "okay"--she was "getting it" just enough to pass, but missing a lot, too(and the things she missed brought her grades down). In social situations such as lunch and p.e., things didn't always go so well for her. At times, she had a friend or two to sit with in lunch--they would sit close and talk some but the noise of the lunchroom mostly meant that they would eat and "people watch." Often, my daughter said that she would sit alone at lunch--"no one wanted to sit with me" she would say(OUCH!--that hurts!). In p.e., things often went wrong--apparently she must have had several instances when she didn't fully understand what she was suppose to do, and she must have had some embarrassing situations when she didn't "follow directions"--often, she begged to get out of her p.e. classes because she "didn't want people to laugh at her." Once again, OUCH!! Through the years, she had several acquaintances, but not many real friends--socially, she was sometimes teased, but mostly she was ignored and left out. She rarely was invited to parties or sleepovers, and we saw many groups of girls hanging out and having fun, totally oblivious to my daughter as they passed by her. OUCH, OUCH, OUCH!! This lack of social inclusion really adds up through the years. I found myself often wanting to "find her a best friend"--but this never really worked out as planned. She has to make her own friends, I cannot pick them for her--and I cannot MAKE other kids be friends with mine. Once she was old enough to begin understanding what was going on around her socially, she started expressing her desire to go to school with other kids like herself--oral deaf. Even though she IS "oral" and loves being "oral" and has no desire to not be "oral", she just calls herself "deaf". To her, "deaf" means what SHE thinks it means--people very much like her who wear hearing aids and talk to each other. She IS beginning to see the sign language aspect, and she wants to learn it so that she can communicate with other deaf people who may not talk, but she says that she REALLY wants to be friends with some girls "just like her." She says that she could write notes with someone if they couldn't talk to her, but she really wants a friend that "wears hearing aids and talks to me." I get it--it makes complete sense--she is who she is and doesn't want to change but she wants to meet others like herself--she doesn't want to "become hearing" and fit in completely by denying her deafness, she doesn't want to "become Deaf" and give up her hearing through hearing aids and voice through speaking--she just wants to be HERSELF, a girl who is "deaf" and wears hearing aids and talks and is learning some sign language. And she wants to go to school with and be friends with people like HERSELF--not "hearing" without understanding how she feels and not "silent Deaf" without understanding how valuable listening and speaking is to her. To her, the ideal situation would be to go to school with lots of deaf people--some who talk, some who sign, some who do both--and she will talk to those who talk(those will probably be her best friends because they are most like her), learn sign so she can communicate with those who sign(and write notes if they don't understand each other), and do both with those who do both(change mode of communication depending on the situation).
Back to describing the scene of my daughter in the mainstream--she is not in a silent world there. She mostly talks with adults--she is very outgoing when in comfortable situations--she often has to be told to STOP talking and get to work--all of the teachers and adults say that she is so sweet because she is always saying nice things to them(that's a pretty dress, can I see a picture of your baby--awww she is SO cute!, your are the best teacher ever!). When it comes to talking to other students, she is kind of shy--she has some people that she carries on lengthy conversations with, and there may be some people who have had class with her all year and have never heard her speak. It all depends on the situation and how comfortable she feels--if she feels uncomfortable, she will "clam up" and not say anything(I was a shy hearing child and sometimes did the same thing). One things she HATES--speaking in front of a classroom full of students--that is VERY embarrassing to her(and also was very embarrassing to me when I was her age, too). So, all-in-all, my daughter talks a lot during the day--mostly to adults and sometimes to students when she feels comfortable. There isn't a communication barrier--it is more about feeling comfortable and confident. Some of this is about personality--in some situations she is quite extroverted, but in many situations she is often introverted. For the most part, she knows everyone's name and they know hers--she talks to those who she feels comfortable with, and does not talk to those who make her feel "different" in some way.
Hearing what is going on around her--school events sometimes were in large rooms with lots of background noise(she followed loud events fine, but sometimes had trouble tuning out other noises in some situations), she says that she always heard the intercom(often loud and hurt her ears though), in a quiet room with one student talking at a time--she usually heard what they said, in a loud room with lots of people talking--just a bunch of noise and hard to hear much of anything worthwhile, teachers using the fm system--heard them fine right in her ear--or heard them fine one-on-one without fm, teachers speaking to a large class without microphone--hear some but miss a lot.
Studying--homework--extra work--she worked very hard and sometimes took a long time to do things that others did quickly--sometimes she would "shut down" and "give up"--many times, she stated that she hated homework, or hated a particular subject, or didn't like a teacher, etc.--if her grades were struggling she often blamed the teacher because she says she "didn't understand" and the teacher "wouldn't help her." When her grades are good and she didn't have too much homework, she sometimes says that she likes a certain subject and loves her teachers. It is hard to enjoy school when you work hard but still don't make good grades--it is easier to enjoy it when you are succeeding and being rewarded.
My daughter is not the over-achieving student that you described--she is willing to work hard but she isn't really willing to "go the extra mile." She doesn't quote Shakespeare, read at the college-level, pass standardized tests with high scores, or have the top GPA in her class. But she does write and sing the lyrics of popular songs, reads almost at grade level, struggles with standardized tests, and made the AB honor roll this year.
She has no problem ordering her own food from restaurants--and asking for substitutions on the menu--and asking for drink refills and/or condiments. But she IS worried about things like adding up the bill, figuring out the tip, etc.--not a big need right now but will be in the future. She listens to a lot of popular music--sometimes she turns her stereo up loud like a typical teenager--sometimes she takes out her hearing aids and uses the headphones from CD players and mp3s(turns it up loud like a typical teenager, too!).
She sings along a lot--sometimes she misses or misunderstands the lyrics and sometimes she gets them perfectly right--she is a bit "tone deaf" and sings a bit "off key"(but so do I and so do many of our hearing family members!). She goes to movies and seems to have no problem following them--hasn't ever tried captioning at the theater but may be something to try one day. She watches television often and loves to use the closed captioning feature--so do I!--it is amazing what we ALL miss without it!--she often asks me what a certain word means because she saw it on the captioning(great for vocabulary development!). She loves to watch DVDs and always turns on the subtitles first--if someone has forgotten to do it, she says "Hey! Where are the words!" When we have been at events that used real-time captioning, we BOTH follow it religiously--it is SUCH a big help to everyone, hearing and deaf alike!--we wish EVERYTHING had real-time captioning!! We have been at events that had Jumbo screens but no captioning--why in the world do they not have captioning!--it would help SO MANY people(both hearing and deaf!).
So this is a detailed description of my daughter's daily life as an oral deaf person in the hearing world and mainstreamed schools. This is a portrait of "the whole child" from her unique perspective. She is VERY happy to hear with her hearing aids and speak with people on a daily basis. She has no regrets being "raised orally"--she is very thankful for her listening and speaking abilities. BUT she is a bit resentful about the mainstreaming into regular schools and being the only deaf student. It didn't bother her when she was younger--younger kids were pretty accepting of her and she fit in fine in most instances. But as she aged and matured, things became tougher. Academically, things were harder. Socially, things were harder. Older kids and adolescents are much less accepting of differences--fitting in is harder to do at that age when there is obviously something that make you stand out and feel different. All she wants to do is "fit in"--like ALL teenagers want to do!! As she approaches high school, she is weighing her options. She COULD continue in the mainstream--she might do okay academically--she might just "get by"--or she might struggle and fail--it is hard to predict. It is the social aspect that stands out the most--she doesn't want to try out for sports or other things if she is going to be the only deaf person on the team or in the group. She would probably continue to just have "acquaintances" but no TRUE friends. She might would be teased, but most likely, she would just be ignored and left out. This just doesn't seem like a good option for her. She really wants to try a deaf school for high school--she hopes teachers of the deaf will be patient with her and give her the help that she needs--she hopes to make good grades and do well in a deaf school environment--she is more willing to try out for sports and other activities if everyone else on the team or in the group is deaf, too--and she REALLY looks forward to making other deaf friends who are just like her! We are trying very hard to move and get her placed in an excellent deaf school soon--I hope it turns out to be the experience that she is dreaming of!--I hope she makes lots of great memories, lots of good friends, and gets on the right track to an enjoyable and productive future. I told her that I am sorry that she was not happy in the mainstream and that I will do whatever I can to help her get to a place where she IS happy. I only hope that making this change will truly be the best thing for her--I am thinking positively about it right now!
deafbajagal
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Sounds like your neat kid is on a roll now.
I agree... her story make me go down the memory lanes of my old hearing schools...Sounds like your neat kid is on a roll now.
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iaskedalice09
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As a Deaf student transferring OUT of mainstream school to a school for the Deaf, I feel bi-bi is the best method. Next year I am going to Ohio School for the Deaf (I love ISD more, but there were custodial issues. Le sigh). My home is a strictly oral one. Most days I prefer voice off ASL but yesterday, I met with someone and my eyes and body were exhausted, so I opted for simcom.
I generally make pretty good grades, but mainstream is awful socially for the Deaf for more reasons than one. Oh, well; I'm outta there!
I generally make pretty good grades, but mainstream is awful socially for the Deaf for more reasons than one. Oh, well; I'm outta there!
jillio
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Good luck with your transfer to OSD. The social aspects of education are quite often ignored. It's sad that we seem to fail to include the psycho-social development of our children when we look at educational placement.
Hello and Good Luck!
Hi! From your entry, I am assuming that you are a high school student...right? I would love to hear more about your experience in the "regular" high school--and I really hope that you continue to post here when you are a student at the Deaf school so that we can see things from "an inside view." I am also curious about the oral/ASL/Bi-Bi issue--from what you wrote, I am assuming that your family is oral and hearing and that you were raised orally--is that the case? If so, did you learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf in mainstream schools? I am trying to see if your experience is anything like my daughter's--hearing family/wears hearing aids and hears well with them/learned to speak by listening with her hearing aids/spoken English is her first language and she LOVES to talk/went to mainstreamed public schools and was the only deaf student for years/now wants to go to school with other deaf teenagers--trying to move to Florida and enroll in FSDB--oh, and she is trying to learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf so that she can communicate with ALL deaf people(those who speak, those who sign, those who do both).
I hope you will pardon my "wordiness"--I just get a bit excited when I meet another deaf teenager who may be feeling as my daughter is feeling. I have found a lot of information from deaf adults who can look back at their experiences in the past as deaf teenagers, but it is rare to actually communicate with a deaf teen who is currently going through these issues. If there is a way to link my daughter into a "deaf teen message board" I would love to do it--she NEEDS that connection and it is hard to find it!
Oh, and one more question--can you tell us a bit more about your feelings in different situations? Like, you said you prefer Bi-Bi--is that usually "voice off"? Is that when you are successfully communicating with others through ASL only? What about when communicating with other "oral deaf" teens? See, my daughter just wants to make some friends her age, who are deaf and wear hearing aids, and who talk to her. She wants to learn sign to communicate with other deaf people too, but she does NOT want to "turn her voice off" or "give up her voice"--she loves to talk too much! As far as I can see, FSDB seems to have a "total communication" kind of atmosphere--from what I have learned from this board, that seems very different than a school that is more "Bi-Bi". My daughter would not feel comfortable in a school where there is a lot of pressure to "turn her voice off"--that just is not for her. Can you tell us a bit more about your feelings about Bi-Bi? I am trying to understand--and I am also seeing how very different deaf schools can be regarding communication issues. In other words, some deaf schools would be a good fit for some, but a bad fit for others--and vice versa. How can we compare based solely on the fact that they are "deaf schools"? We need to know their "communication philosophy" and their "communication atmosphere" to see if they would or would not be a "good fit" for us or our children. I hope that the school that you will be attending is a "good fit" for you--and I hope you have a very happy and successful high school career!
Hi! From your entry, I am assuming that you are a high school student...right? I would love to hear more about your experience in the "regular" high school--and I really hope that you continue to post here when you are a student at the Deaf school so that we can see things from "an inside view." I am also curious about the oral/ASL/Bi-Bi issue--from what you wrote, I am assuming that your family is oral and hearing and that you were raised orally--is that the case? If so, did you learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf in mainstream schools? I am trying to see if your experience is anything like my daughter's--hearing family/wears hearing aids and hears well with them/learned to speak by listening with her hearing aids/spoken English is her first language and she LOVES to talk/went to mainstreamed public schools and was the only deaf student for years/now wants to go to school with other deaf teenagers--trying to move to Florida and enroll in FSDB--oh, and she is trying to learn ASL through Teachers of the Deaf so that she can communicate with ALL deaf people(those who speak, those who sign, those who do both).
I hope you will pardon my "wordiness"--I just get a bit excited when I meet another deaf teenager who may be feeling as my daughter is feeling. I have found a lot of information from deaf adults who can look back at their experiences in the past as deaf teenagers, but it is rare to actually communicate with a deaf teen who is currently going through these issues. If there is a way to link my daughter into a "deaf teen message board" I would love to do it--she NEEDS that connection and it is hard to find it!
Oh, and one more question--can you tell us a bit more about your feelings in different situations? Like, you said you prefer Bi-Bi--is that usually "voice off"? Is that when you are successfully communicating with others through ASL only? What about when communicating with other "oral deaf" teens? See, my daughter just wants to make some friends her age, who are deaf and wear hearing aids, and who talk to her. She wants to learn sign to communicate with other deaf people too, but she does NOT want to "turn her voice off" or "give up her voice"--she loves to talk too much!
As far as I can see, FSDB seems to have a "total communication" kind of atmosphere--from what I have learned from this board, that seems very different than a school that is more "Bi-Bi". My daughter would not feel comfortable in a school where there is a lot of pressure to "turn her voice off"--that just is not for her. Can you tell us a bit more about your feelings about Bi-Bi? I am trying to understand--and I am also seeing how very different deaf schools can be regarding communication issues. In other words, some deaf schools would be a good fit for some, but a bad fit for others--and vice versa. How can we compare based solely on the fact that they are "deaf schools"? We need to know their "communication philosophy" and their "communication atmosphere" to see if they would or would not be a "good fit" for us or our children. I hope that the school that you will be attending is a "good fit" for you--and I hope you have a very happy and successful high school career!
R
rockdrummer
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faire_jour
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Deborah,
I feel like you are making a lot of assumptions about your daughter. You say that she is happy that she was raised orally, and that she is glad she wasin the mainstream, but she isn't grown yet. She isn't to the point where she can make these decisions for herself. These things may change....
I feel like you are making a lot of assumptions about your daughter. You say that she is happy that she was raised orally, and that she is glad she wasin the mainstream, but she isn't grown yet. She isn't to the point where she can make these decisions for herself. These things may change....
Celticty
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You have a very good point. They usually are never sure exactly of what they really want until they are old enough to decide for themselves.
True--I am going on what she has said so far
What I have said before is more along the lines of: she is very happy that she can hear with her hearing aids--that one is easy, and unless her hearing changes and she no longer hears as well with them, I can't imagine her ever saying that she regretted hearing through her hearing aids. She loves to hear and hates to not hear--she wants her hearing aids to function properly and complains if they are not. Anyone who gets a lot of benefit from hearing aids will understand that one--but I can also understand how someone who does NOT get much benefit from them would NOT feel that way. As for talking--have you guys ever met someone who is classified as a "motormouth"--someone who talks excessively--someone you sometimes wish would just be quiet sometimes, know what I mean? Well, my mother, who is hearing, is definitely that kind of person--and my daughter who has a hearing loss, her granddaughter, is also that way. I, on the other hand, am hearing but I am not nearly as talkative as my mother and daughter. So when I say that she LOVES to talk, I am not assuming anything--she goes on and on and on sometimes--and she has said that she will never stop--she has said that she cannot imagine NOT being able to talk--to her, that would be like not breathing because it is So much a part of her personality. But I, a hearing person, could be quiet for days and probably be fine--it's a personality thing, really. As for the mainstream experience, she was happy at first, but now, as a teenager, she is not. She actually went to an oral deaf preschool before mainstreaming into public school. She REALLY wants to go back to school at the oral deaf school, but we have moved to a different state and can't really go back--plus, they do not have high school there. Honestly, her "best fit" would be an "oral deaf high school" but there don't seem to be any. The reason this fits her best is because she would love to be in the midst of lots of people just like her. When she asked to go to a deaf school, she has said that she means a school with people like her--wear hearing aids and talk to each other. Since there don't seem to be any oral deaf high schools, then her choice is a deaf school that has lots of people who DO talk. She does say that she wants to learn sign language so that she can communicate with people who do not talk, but she REALLY wants to talk to girls her age who are deaf and can communicate with her in HER language. It will be interesting to see how this all goes for her--if she can make at least one or two friends who are "just like her" that would be great, and a few more friends who use ASL and she can learn to communicate with them too--that would be a bonus!! All I am saying is that SHE would be very uncomfortable in a school where very few people talked to her--that would be just as bad as a mainstream environment where she sometimes gets ignored. As she grows, she may learn more sign language and she may spend time in a "silent world" sometimes, but she is NOT profoundly deaf so she would have to take off her hearing aids and plug her ears to make things silent. For some people who consider themselves "deaf", they sometimes can still hear a lot and can never really be in a silent world unless they wear something on their ears to completely mute the sounds around them. Anyway--there are a lot of people who are not profoundly deaf who still consider themselves deaf, they enjoy hearing what they can hear with hearing aids, and they enjoy speaking because it comes fairly easily for them once they learned to listen through their hearing aids. It isn;t that far fetched to think that some people with hearing loss actually enjoy hearing what they can hear and actually enjoy speaking. That is what she says--plus, her talkative personality just shines through and she seems to have no desire to curb that part of her. So, she does love to hear and speak and is glad to be "oral deaf"--BUT she is not so happy being in the mainstream as the only (or only one of very few) oral deaf students. She is unhappy being the only one who is deaf in the middle of a "hearing school" and she would be unhappy being the only one who is "oral deaf" in the middle of a deaf school where no one talks to her--neither one seems to be a perfect fit for her. That is why I am trying to make sure that she goes to a deaf school that is "total communication"--I guess that is the correct term. And I am wondering if schools that are Bi-Bi are very different than TC schools--and how can parents know which schools have which philosophies and environments. She may change her mind about a LOT of things as she ages--but when I have met or known people who can be classified as "very talkative" they usually don't change that part of their personality as they age. I am just making my "assumptions" based on her talkative personality--she never seems to want to stop talking even when she is asked to be quiet. Some people are just like that--hearing or deaf. All I know is that I love her dearly no matter what--if she had been more like me and was less talkative, that would be fine, too. She is who she is--people should not assume that because she is deaf that she would prefer to NOT talk--her personality is not a quiet one in situations where she feels comfortable. But the mainstreaming issue--now that is one that has changed for her through the years--she used to be happy in the mainstream and now she is not--and I am willing to do whatever I need to do to make things right so that she WILL be happy--thus the move to a different state so that she can attend a deaf school that seems to fit her the best. All I want is for her to be happy--I am definitely willing to make any and all changes that are needed to achieve the best environment for her. She is such a sweet person--I am SO proud of her!
What I have said before is more along the lines of: she is very happy that she can hear with her hearing aids--that one is easy, and unless her hearing changes and she no longer hears as well with them, I can't imagine her ever saying that she regretted hearing through her hearing aids. She loves to hear and hates to not hear--she wants her hearing aids to function properly and complains if they are not. Anyone who gets a lot of benefit from hearing aids will understand that one--but I can also understand how someone who does NOT get much benefit from them would NOT feel that way. As for talking--have you guys ever met someone who is classified as a "motormouth"--someone who talks excessively--someone you sometimes wish would just be quiet sometimes, know what I mean? Well, my mother, who is hearing, is definitely that kind of person--and my daughter who has a hearing loss, her granddaughter, is also that way. I, on the other hand, am hearing but I am not nearly as talkative as my mother and daughter. So when I say that she LOVES to talk, I am not assuming anything--she goes on and on and on sometimes--and she has said that she will never stop--she has said that she cannot imagine NOT being able to talk--to her, that would be like not breathing because it is So much a part of her personality. But I, a hearing person, could be quiet for days and probably be fine--it's a personality thing, really. As for the mainstream experience, she was happy at first, but now, as a teenager, she is not. She actually went to an oral deaf preschool before mainstreaming into public school. She REALLY wants to go back to school at the oral deaf school, but we have moved to a different state and can't really go back--plus, they do not have high school there. Honestly, her "best fit" would be an "oral deaf high school" but there don't seem to be any. The reason this fits her best is because she would love to be in the midst of lots of people just like her. When she asked to go to a deaf school, she has said that she means a school with people like her--wear hearing aids and talk to each other. Since there don't seem to be any oral deaf high schools, then her choice is a deaf school that has lots of people who DO talk. She does say that she wants to learn sign language so that she can communicate with people who do not talk, but she REALLY wants to talk to girls her age who are deaf and can communicate with her in HER language. It will be interesting to see how this all goes for her--if she can make at least one or two friends who are "just like her" that would be great, and a few more friends who use ASL and she can learn to communicate with them too--that would be a bonus!! All I am saying is that SHE would be very uncomfortable in a school where very few people talked to her--that would be just as bad as a mainstream environment where she sometimes gets ignored. As she grows, she may learn more sign language and she may spend time in a "silent world" sometimes, but she is NOT profoundly deaf so she would have to take off her hearing aids and plug her ears to make things silent. For some people who consider themselves "deaf", they sometimes can still hear a lot and can never really be in a silent world unless they wear something on their ears to completely mute the sounds around them. Anyway--there are a lot of people who are not profoundly deaf who still consider themselves deaf, they enjoy hearing what they can hear with hearing aids, and they enjoy speaking because it comes fairly easily for them once they learned to listen through their hearing aids. It isn;t that far fetched to think that some people with hearing loss actually enjoy hearing what they can hear and actually enjoy speaking. That is what she says--plus, her talkative personality just shines through and she seems to have no desire to curb that part of her. So, she does love to hear and speak and is glad to be "oral deaf"--BUT she is not so happy being in the mainstream as the only (or only one of very few) oral deaf students. She is unhappy being the only one who is deaf in the middle of a "hearing school" and she would be unhappy being the only one who is "oral deaf" in the middle of a deaf school where no one talks to her--neither one seems to be a perfect fit for her. That is why I am trying to make sure that she goes to a deaf school that is "total communication"--I guess that is the correct term. And I am wondering if schools that are Bi-Bi are very different than TC schools--and how can parents know which schools have which philosophies and environments. She may change her mind about a LOT of things as she ages--but when I have met or known people who can be classified as "very talkative" they usually don't change that part of their personality as they age. I am just making my "assumptions" based on her talkative personality--she never seems to want to stop talking even when she is asked to be quiet. Some people are just like that--hearing or deaf. All I know is that I love her dearly no matter what--if she had been more like me and was less talkative, that would be fine, too. She is who she is--people should not assume that because she is deaf that she would prefer to NOT talk--her personality is not a quiet one in situations where she feels comfortable. But the mainstreaming issue--now that is one that has changed for her through the years--she used to be happy in the mainstream and now she is not--and I am willing to do whatever I need to do to make things right so that she WILL be happy--thus the move to a different state so that she can attend a deaf school that seems to fit her the best. All I want is for her to be happy--I am definitely willing to make any and all changes that are needed to achieve the best environment for her. She is such a sweet person--I am SO proud of her!
jillio
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What I have said before is more along the lines of: she is very happy that she can hear with her hearing aids--that one is easy, and unless her hearing changes and she no longer hears as well with them, I can't imagine her ever saying that she regretted hearing through her hearing aids. She loves to hear and hates to not hear--she wants her hearing aids to function properly and complains if they are not. Anyone who gets a lot of benefit from hearing aids will understand that one--but I can also understand how someone who does NOT get much benefit from them would NOT feel that way. As for talking--have you guys ever met someone who is classified as a "motormouth"--someone who talks excessively--someone you sometimes wish would just be quiet sometimes, know what I mean? Well, my mother, who is hearing, is definitely that kind of person--and my daughter who has a hearing loss, her granddaughter, is also that way. I, on the other hand, am hearing but I am not nearly as talkative as my mother and daughter. So when I say that she LOVES to talk, I am not assuming anything--she goes on and on and on sometimes--and she has said that she will never stop--she has said that she cannot imagine NOT being able to talk--to her, that would be like not breathing because it is So much a part of her personality. But I, a hearing person, could be quiet for days and probably be fine--it's a personality thing, really. As for the mainstream experience, she was happy at first, but now, as a teenager, she is not. She actually went to an oral deaf preschool before mainstreaming into public school. She REALLY wants to go back to school at the oral deaf school, but we have moved to a different state and can't really go back--plus, they do not have high school there. Honestly, her "best fit" would be an "oral deaf high school" but there don't seem to be any. The reason this fits her best is because she would love to be in the midst of lots of people just like her. When she asked to go to a deaf school, she has said that she means a school with people like her--wear hearing aids and talk to each other. Since there don't seem to be any oral deaf high schools, then her choice is a deaf school that has lots of people who DO talk. She does say that she wants to learn sign language so that she can communicate with people who do not talk, but she REALLY wants to talk to girls her age who are deaf and can communicate with her in HER language. It will be interesting to see how this all goes for her--if she can make at least one or two friends who are "just like her" that would be great, and a few more friends who use ASL and she can learn to communicate with them too--that would be a bonus!! All I am saying is that SHE would be very uncomfortable in a school where very few people talked to her--that would be just as bad as a mainstream environment where she sometimes gets ignored. As she grows, she may learn more sign language and she may spend time in a "silent world" sometimes, but she is NOT profoundly deaf so she would have to take off her hearing aids and plug her ears to make things silent. For some people who consider themselves "deaf", they sometimes can still hear a lot and can never really be in a silent world unless they wear something on their ears to completely mute the sounds around them. Anyway--there are a lot of people who are not profoundly deaf who still consider themselves deaf, they enjoy hearing what they can hear with hearing aids, and they enjoy speaking because it comes fairly easily for them once they learned to listen through their hearing aids. It isn;t that far fetched to think that some people with hearing loss actually enjoy hearing what they can hear and actually enjoy speaking. That is what she says--plus, her talkative personality just shines through and she seems to have no desire to curb that part of her. So, she does love to hear and speak and is glad to be "oral deaf"--BUT she is not so happy being in the mainstream as the only (or only one of very few) oral deaf students. She is unhappy being the only one who is deaf in the middle of a "hearing school" and she would be unhappy being the only one who is "oral deaf" in the middle of a deaf school where no one talks to her--neither one seems to be a perfect fit for her. That is why I am trying to make sure that she goes to a deaf school that is "total communication"--I guess that is the correct term. And I am wondering if schools that are Bi-Bi are very different than TC schools--and how can parents know which schools have which philosophies and environments. She may change her mind about a LOT of things as she ages--but when I have met or known people who can be classified as "very talkative" they usually don't change that part of their personality as they age. I am just making my "assumptions" based on her talkative personality--she never seems to want to stop talking even when she is asked to be quiet. Some people are just like that--hearing or deaf. All I know is that I love her dearly no matter what--if she had been more like me and was less talkative, that would be fine, too. She is who she is--people should not assume that because she is deaf that she would prefer to NOT talk--her personality is not a quiet one in situations where she feels comfortable. But the mainstreaming issue--now that is one that has changed for her through the years--she used to be happy in the mainstream and now she is not--and I am willing to do whatever I need to do to make things right so that she WILL be happy--thus the move to a different state so that she can attend a deaf school that seems to fit her the best. All I want is for her to be happy--I am definitely willing to make any and all changes that are needed to achieve the best environment for her. She is such a sweet person--I am SO proud of her!
All due respect, but perhaps your daughter cannot imagine any other way because she knows no other way. She has no basis for comparison. Many a hearing parent has assumed that their child was happy with an oral umbringing and that they had no desire for any other way, when actually it was that they had no other way to compare their existence to. You can learn a lot from the deaf adults who were beleived by teachers and parents to be perfectly happy as oral deaf children and teens, who got by with their HAs and their oral skill, and then talk of the feeling of being whole and complete for the first time in their lives when they found the deaf/Deaf community and ASL. It is a very common story.
The reason I joined the forum, to get exactly this type of perspective. My severely hearing impaired son is mainstreamed, very verbal and outperforming most kids his age academically but I'm not sure I understand the emotional challenges.
His behavior is often problematic and it's difficult to know how much is from hearing loss and how much is other problems. Sometimes it seems that maybe if he had been to a deaf school, I'd at least be able to make that differentiation. Deaf school teachers who have worked with him don't seem to think the behavior issues are hearing-related but I'm not so sure.
What makes school and socializing harder is that most adults (and consequently the children around them) feel comfortable ignoring his special needs simply because he is performing so well. The attitude is like: "I know he can hear me" or "With his hearing aids he's just like any hearing child".
The concept of him having to make more effort to hear just doesn't seem to penetrate most adult brains regardless of how many times I say it. (There are many solutions for those who can't hear, but seemingly none for those who won't ).
When he was younger, I never seriously looked at ASL because he has enough residual hearing to communicate orally. Now I sometimes wonder if I should have given that (and deaf school) more consideration. Our experience makes me feel that perhaps bi- is the way to go.