Feelings on how a Deaf child should be taught

[Deborah]

And that's perfectly ok and normal. I was nervous about going to Gallaudet University cuz my ASL wasnt fully fluent at that time so I was scared that I would have trouble understanding the professors and the other students since I had gotten used to having a oral terp at Arizona State. It was only during my last semester that I switched from oral to ASL terp. By the end of my first semester at Gallaudet, I was pretty fluent in ASL and able to understand most ASL users both in and out of the classroom. Then by the end of my 2 nd semester (a year later), I was fully fluent. At that time, I was 28 years old and you know that for adults, it takes longer for us to pick up on a new language. I am sure your daughter will pick ASL up within 2 years.

Tell your daughter she is not the only deaf child or person to go through this. Good luck!

That is encouraging--I hope she picks up ASL as quickly. I think they will be very helpful at FSDB during the learning process. I don't know about other deaf schools, but I was very impressed when we visited FSDB--and my daughter literally fell in love with it! Once she entered the gates of the campus and began meeting other deaf teenagers like herself, she was like a fish who finally found the right pond! She came out of her shell and quickly overcame her shyness--I was amazed at how comfortable she seemed to be there during her visit. I know there will be good days and bad days--that is how life is--but I do think that we found a school that just fits her best. If my maternal instincts are right about this, I think she will be very happy there--I mean, to have several deaf friends and to date deaf guys--you are talking "heaven on earth" for her! She is SO excited and is DYING to hurry up and get there! We are trying our best to made this happen for her!

 

[faire_jour]

As I have said before, one reason she felt very comfortable when visiting FSDB was because people TALKED to her and put her at ease about learning sign. Some students in her age group, some of their teachers, some of the staff, etc.--they talked back and forth about the school--they talked to her in English--they told her that they would help her learn to sign and that soon she would be "good at it."

But, see, this is where things get sticky. Were the teachers and other students speaking to her in front of other Deaf kids? If so, don't you find that really rude to the kids who can't use spoken English. The reason that bi-bi schools exsist is so that no one is left out regardless of their "listening skills".

As I said before, I have no idea what our school would do if a student in a higher level class transfered in with no ASL, but has English skills. It happens, a lot, but only with kids who have no language. I would assume there would be a lot of writing. The lessons would be given in ASL but then adapted in whatever way was figured out by the IEP team.

Ideally, all students in a bi-bi school have been exposed to ASL from birth. That is the dream, but in reality most show up as oral failures, or no language at all. Our teachers work hard everyday to immerse these kids with language and I have yet to meet one, regardless of additional handicap, that hasn't soared to their highest potential. Bi-bi schools often take the cast-offs, multiply handicapped kids, immigrant kids with no family support, oral failures, and extremly late diagnosed kids, and make sure that they succeed.

 

[shel90]

But, see, this is where things get sticky. Were the teachers and other students speaking to her in front of other Deaf kids? If so, don't you find that really rude to the kids who can't use spoken English. The reason that bi-bi schools exsist is so that no one is left out regardless of their "listening skills".

As I said before, I have no idea what our school would do if a student in a higher level class transfered in with no ASL, but has English skills. It happens, a lot, but only with kids who have no language. I would assume there would be a lot of writing. The lessons would be given in ASL but then adapted in whatever way was figured out by the IEP team.

Ideally, all students in a bi-bi school have been exposed to ASL from birth. That is the dream, but in reality most show up as oral failures, or no language at all. Our teachers work hard everyday to immerse these kids with language and I have yet to meet one, regardless of additional handicap, that hasn't soared to their highest potential. Bi-bi schools often take the cast-offs, multiply handicapped kids, immigrant kids with no family support, oral failures, and extremly late diagnosed kids, and make sure that they succeed.[/QUOTE]

And that is the very sad truth! That's why my job is twice as difficult as those teachers who teach hearing children at public schools who have no additional needs.

 

[Buffalo]

Ideally, all students in a bi-bi school have been exposed to ASL from birth. That is the dream, but in reality most show up as oral failures, or no language at all. Our teachers work hard everyday to immerse these kids with language and I have yet to meet one, regardless of additional handicap, that hasn't soared to their highest potential. Bi-bi schools often take the cast-offs, multiply handicapped kids, immigrant kids with no family support, oral failures, and extremly late diagnosed kids, and make sure that they succeed.

*nodding* That is why I see TC as a half-hearted move toward Bi-Bi and deaf education reforms are moving at the sped of molasses. I also want to see more deaf teachers as they are very good role models for the kids. I am impatient when it come to deaf education. I just want to see the deaf kids on the par with hearing kids. I also want the deaf kids to know other deaf kids for emotional support. Bi-Bi is the way to go.

 

[shel90]

*nodding* That is why I see TC as a half-hearted move toward Bi-Bi and deaf education reforms are moving at the sped of molasses. I also want to see more deaf teachers as they are very good role models for the kids. I am impatient when it come to deaf education. I just want to see the deaf kids on the par with hearing kids. I also want the deaf kids to know other deaf kids for emotional support. Bi-Bi is the way to go.

I agree..it is really sad when parents say that they prefer their children to have hearing teachers. It is very very discriminating and offensive not only to the deaf teachers but to their own deaf children cuz by making statements like these, it shows that they dont respect deaf people. That's my opinion.

As someone who grew up around hearing adults, having a deaf person as a role model would have helped my fears and anxiety about myself as a deaf person.

 

[faire_jour]

My daughter has had 3 teachers and 6 aides, only 1 was hearing. Her principal is Deaf, and her Kindergarten teacher will be too.

 

[rick48]

But, see, this is where things get sticky. Were the teachers and other students speaking to her in front of other Deaf kids? If so, don't you find that really rude to the kids who can't use spoken English. The reason that bi-bi schools exsist is so that no one is left out regardless of their "listening skills".

No, I do not find it rude at all. Its called educating the child. What, its ok to sign in front of students who do not know sign but not speak in front of students who do not know how to speak?

It would seem that the goal of the school if it is truly interested in educating a student is to provide that student as much access to their primary language as possible while they learn the the other half of the "bi-lingual" component.

 

[shel90]

My daughter has had 3 teachers and 6 aides, only 1 was hearing. Her principal is Deaf, and her Kindergarten teacher will be too.

Your daughter is very blessed to be growing up in a linguistically rich environment with Deaf role models.

 

[Cheri]

My daughter has had 3 teachers and 6 aides, only 1 was hearing. Her principal is Deaf, and her Kindergarten teacher will be too.

In one classroom alone?

 

[Deborah]

Deaf teachers as role models

Yes, having teachers as role models is a GREAT thing--kids who are deaf and use ASL would be blessed to meet deaf adults "just like them"(great models for future success). AND oral deaf kids need the same thing! Ideally, having teachers "just like them" is a great concept for ALL kids. We should always realize the importance of adult role models in the lives of children. Since my daughter is deaf, speaks English, and wants to learn ASL, the best role model for her would be deaf adults who are fluent in English and ASL--she would do best with teachers who 1) understand what it means to be deaf/hh and 2) can converse with her in both English and ASL(once she learns ASL). Yes, there are some hearing teachers at FSDB, but I honestly was the MOST impressed when I met a few teachers who were "oral deaf" AND used ASL--they talked AND they signed--these are the role models for my daughter who are "just like her" or at least "just like the way she would like to be"(once she learns ASL). Meeting deaf people who wear hearing aids (she can kind of relate to CI users but hearing aid users are "more like her"), who speak English, and who have learned ASL as a second language--these are people who are MOST like her--people who are GREAT role models for her--the more teachers and adults that she meets who are "just like her", the better. Yes, she can definitely look up to teachers who are Deaf and teachers who are hearing--both kinds of teachers are presenting things in one of the two languages that she plans to use. But the BEST role model for her would be teachers who are "just like her"--people who are deaf and speak English as a first language and use ASL as a second language(what she hopes to do soon). We met some teachers like that at FSDB--she was very interested in the fact that these teachers wore hearing aids like she did, spoke like she did, and use sign like she wants to do--great role models for her!

 

[faire_jour]

No, I do not find it rude at all. Its called educating the child. What, its ok to sign in front of students who do not know sign but not speak in front of students who do not know how to speak?

It would seem that the goal of the school if it is truly interested in educating a student is to provide that student as much access to their primary language as possible while they learn the the other half of the "bi-lingual" component.

I am sure that if a child was in a bi-bi classroom and didn't have access to ASL there would be accomadations.

 

[shel90]

I am sure that if a child was in a bi-bi classroom and didn't have access to ASL there would be accomadations.

You are correct on that one as I have seen it happen myself. However, to your question bout using spoken English with the child without signing being rude or not, the answer is both yes and no depending on the situation. Yes, cuz the other deaf kids who have no oral skills will miss out but no cuz the oral deaf child has the right to access to the curriculm so what we do is if that happens, we share the information in ASL and then share the same in formation with the oral students if they havent become fluent in ASL yet. If we shared info with either one without sharing to the other group, then yes, it is very rude and very unfair. However, if the oral child is fluent in ASL and staff uses spoken English with the child all the time in front of the other children without signing then that is very disrespectful cuz the classroom is for all of the children not just a select few. That's why I feel that way about mainstreaming or oral deaf ed programs...it is the deaf children who are constantly missing out on some info or lagging behind. Why the need for CART or terps?

 

[shel90]

Yes, having teachers as role models is a GREAT thing--kids who are deaf and use ASL would be blessed to meet deaf adults "just like them"(great models for future success). AND oral deaf kids need the same thing! Ideally, having teachers "just like them" is a great concept for ALL kids. We should always realize the importance of adult role models in the lives of children. Since my daughter is deaf, speaks English, and wants to learn ASL, the best role model for her would be deaf adults who are fluent in English and ASL--she would do best with teachers who 1) understand what it means to be deaf/hh and 2) can converse with her in both English and ASL(once she learns ASL). Yes, there are some hearing teachers at FSDB, but I honestly was the MOST impressed when I met a few teachers who were "oral deaf" AND used ASL--they talked AND they signed--these are the role models for my daughter who are "just like her" or at least "just like the way she would like to be"(once she learns ASL). Meeting deaf people who wear hearing aids (she can kind of relate to CI users but hearing aid users are "more like her"), who speak English, and who have learned ASL as a second language--these are people who are MOST like her--people who are GREAT role models for her--the more teachers and adults that she meets who are "just like her", the better. Yes, she can definitely look up to teachers who are Deaf and teachers who are hearing--both kinds of teachers are presenting things in one of the two languages that she plans to use. But the BEST role model for her would be teachers who are "just like her"--people who are deaf and speak English as a first language and use ASL as a second language(what she hopes to do soon). We met some teachers like that at FSDB--she was very interested in the fact that these teachers wore hearing aids like she did, spoke like she did, and use sign like she wants to do--great role models for her!

Then I would be the perfect teacher who is just like your daughter. I am a hearing aid user who grew up fully oral, learning ASL as a 2nd language.

 

[jillio]

If you already moved to Florida, how about having your daughter visit some girls from FSDB throughout this summer? That way she will learn ASL and feel better about it. Plus she would knows few students before she starts the school. Maybe you already plan on that?

Excellent suggestion.

 

[jillio]

No, I do not find it rude at all. Its called educating the child. What, its ok to sign in front of students who do not know sign but not speak in front of students who do not know how to speak?

It would seem that the goal of the school if it is truly interested in educating a student is to provide that student as much access to their primary language as possible while they learn the the other half of the "bi-lingual" component.

She was referring to an informal situation on campus, not a classroom. Get your bias our of the way before you read the posts.

 

[Deborah]

We share the information in ASL and then share the same information with the oral students if they haven't become fluent in ASL yet. If we shared info with either one without sharing to the other group, then yes, it is very rude and very unfair.

That is how things seem to be done at FSDB--lots of back and forth. I was only there for a brief time, so I only can report the bits of time that I saw in the classrooms. One teacher was instructing the students in geography--hmm...speech first or sign first, I'm not sure--but what I saw was BOTH--the names of the places being both spoken and signed, the names of the rivers being both spoken and signed, not at the exact same time, but one first and then the other. There seemed to be a really good flow back and forth between the two languages--students who understood the spoken words and students who understood ASL were BOTH being accommodated. Sometimes, the kids would ask questions--sometimes orally and sometimes in sign--the response would always be in BOTH. I guess if the question was in sign, it would be repeated or interpreted out loud, then the teacher would answer in sign, followed by the oral interpretation. If a student asked a question orally, the question would be repeated/interpreted in ASL, the teacher would answer orally and quickly interpret what she said in ASL. Does this make sense? I saw a very good flow of BOTH languages--NO ONE was left out because BOTH languages were being used. I really admire the teachers that have to work doubly hard to teach in two languages--some of them were oral deaf adults and made the bilingual aspect really "come to life." Maybe other teachers would need interpreters to help in the process--whatever works, right? Just as long as EVERY student is getting access to BOTH languages--they may focus more on their first language but they are getting access to both--and NO ONE is being left out in ANY way.

So, if Bi-Bi is giving DUAL access, then that is great! Keep in mind that there may be more and more older deaf students who DO have English as a first language and want ASL as a second language--there should be plenty of deaf schools that make this an acceptable option for them. Many people on this board have said that they did not learn ASL until later in life--teens or adulthood--there needs to be lots of good options and access for people in that situation. I don't know how many deaf schools are like I described(good balance of both spoken English and ASL) and how many are like others have described(much more heavily balanced on the ASL side)--and, of course, public schools are heavily balanced on the spoken English side--some kids would do well in one, some in another, and some in another. I just know that, for my child, the very equally balanced environment of EQUAL use of spoken English and ASL--with NO ONE getting left out and EVERYTHING always being interpreted into BOTH languages--that seems like the BEST option. She feels left out in regular public schools, and she would feel left out in a deaf school that was heavily ASL with little to no spoken English in the environment. She would do her best in an equally balanced environment.

I don't know is FSDB considers themselves to be TC or Bi-Bi, but whatever it is, it seems to work. No kids who sign only seem to be left out, no kids who speak only seem to be left out--EVERYTHING seems to be presented in BOTH languages. I still do not know if this is the norm among deaf schools or not--I have been to a few campuses that seem much more "silent"--my daughter is much more comfortable when there is BOTH speech AND sign going on around her--not just one or the other. Being in a regular school with no other deaf kids was not right for her. Being in a deaf school with no other oral deaf kids would not be right for her. Being in a deaf school with a good balance of both : kids who speak, kids who sign, and complete interpretation between the two languages at all times--THAT seems to be the right place for her.

I completely agree that NOT interpreting for EITHER side would be RUDE,RUDE, RUDE!! People signing in front of someone not fluent in ASL--it needs to be interpreted so that they are not being left out. People speaking in front of someone who does not know(or cannot hear) spoken English--it needs to be interpreted so that they are not being left out. Not doing so--in EITHER case--would definitely be rude. THAT is why I was asking about the accommodations for English speakers in Bi-Bi programs--some said that YES all ASL would be interpreted for them, and some seem to indicate that it may not be(that they should be fluent in ASL first before being comfortable at that particular school). Also, many English speakers would not be comfortable if there were no other English speaking students(or just a few)--just as students who only know ASL may not feel comfortable in a school where they are the only ones(or almost the only ones) who use ASL. When looking for a good educational environment for our children, this is a major consideration. Being the "only one" or "one of the few" is not always a comfortable place to be--especially for teenagers. Yes, some may do okay in this isolated kind of environment, but many would LOVE to be surrounded with LOTS of people "just like them." THAT is why many deaf teenagers who may have done okay in the mainstream for a while suddenly begin to desire something different--they want to be around people like themselves--that is where deaf schools come into play. If they can find a deaf school where they really fit in, then they think it is "heaven on earth"--but if they feel just as isolated at a deaf school as they would at a hearing school, they would not be happy there either. Whatever it is called--TC or Bi-Bi or something else--as long as these students feel comfortable and can continue to use their first language, spoken English, while learning their second language, ASL, then all is well. And as long as they can make LOTS of friends "just like them" and not feel left out and "the only one"--then all is well. That is what my daughter is looking for--a deaf school where she can make lots of deaf friends--some who talk and some who sign--and some who do BOTH--and a good way to balance the TWO languages so no one ever feels left out. Sounds great, right? But it is harder to find than you would think--and, of course, there is the whole "where you live and what resources are available" issue--it is really a challenge to find the best placement for deaf/hh kids. We are trying to find the "best fit" for our daughter's high school years--it is a challenge, but we think we have found the right place for her. Now if we could just get ourselves moved so we can enroll her in the school she wants to attend--yet another challenge!

 

[Deborah]

Why the need for CART or terps?

I am curious about CART--is that the same thing as "real time captioning"? Even when students are understanding things through spoken English and/or ASL, it seems that the captioning/transcription would be a helpful tool. I am just imagining that having EVERYTHING that is said or signed in class completely translated into written English would be good, right? Kind of like "court transcription"--a visible reference to everything that is said in court? Wouldn't it be a great extra tool? I'm thinking that it could be a great way of having notes from class--it is hard for deaf/hh kids to make that transfer from catching what is presented and understanding to writing down notes about what is presented. I know that in public schools, some deaf/hh kids have note-takers. I don't know a lot about CART--I was thinking that it was a mechanical equivalent of a note-taker, or is it an individual who is transcripting? Isn't there now technology that translates all speech into print? Hmm...but what about kids who use ASL--how can that all be translated into print? I guess there just needs to be LOTS and LOTS of printed materials given to the students. Still, I really like the idea of everything presented being translated into print--is CART a good tool for that?

 

[Deborah]

Then I would be the perfect teacher who is just like your daughter. I am a hearing aid user who grew up fully oral, learning ASL as a 2nd language.

I am sure you would be! I am sure that you a blessing to your students and a wonderful role model. Don't you wish more Deaf/deaf people would go into deaf education? That would be great to have many more role models for the kids. Oh, and we try very hard to find other role models, too--we are constantly searching for deaf people who could provide that for our daughter. I think that being involved in a deaf school will be a great way to do that. And she admires Heather Whitestone and Marlee Matlin--two beautiful deaf women who she kind of identifies with(although they are quite a bit older than her). We have tried to find info on younger deaf girls and women in entertainment--there was a deaf girl named Shoshanna on a show this past fall, I think. Recently, she discovered the Deaf Performing Artists Network--I think that is what it is called. She has watched the music videos with sign--she loves them! There are some teenage girls in these videos--if she could find out their names, she would be a big fan! I am just assuming these are professional deaf actresses--I hope more and more deaf teens go into acting and eventually make their way into Hollywood. I know--Hollywood isn't the best place to find role models--but hey, teens are really into that. They want to know all about the glamorous lives of people like Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus--wouldn't it be GREAT to have some deaf teenagers providing that kind of role for today's deaf teens? And, of course, they need role models in many different careers so that they can see deaf people working in fields in which they may be interested in doing themselves. We are always on the lookout for things like this--my daughter has always been very interested in meeting others like herself. Usually, though, when she notices someone else wearing hearing aids, it is an elderly person(not deaf, just lost hearing as they aged)! That is SO not the same thing! Is it just her, or do other people go around peeking at people's ears to see if maybe there are hearing aids or cochlear implants there? She is discreet, of course--but she gets excited when she notices someone whose ears look like hers(with hearing aids in them)! And then the Bluetooth came out--anyone else look at one and think "hearing aids" until they got a bit closer? Anyway--for my daughter, finding others who wear hearing aids has always been an interesting endeavor. She will be in "hog heaven" at the deaf school!

 

[shel90]

I am sure you would be! I am sure that you a blessing to your students and a wonderful role model. Don't you wish more Deaf/deaf people would go into deaf education? That would be great to have many more role models for the kids. Oh, and we try very hard to find other role models, too--we are constantly searching for deaf people who could provide that for our daughter. I think that being involved in a deaf school will be a great way to do that. And she admires Heather Whitestone and Marlee Matlin--two beautiful deaf women who she kind of identifies with(although they are quite a bit older than her). We have tried to find info on younger deaf girls and women in entertainment--there was a deaf girl named Shoshanna on a show this past fall, I think. Recently, she discovered the Deaf Performing Artists Network--I think that is what it is called. She has watched the music videos with sign--she loves them! There are some teenage girls in these videos--if she could find out their names, she would be a big fan! I am just assuming these are professional deaf actresses--I hope more and more deaf teens go into acting and eventually make their way into Hollywood. I know--Hollywood isn't the best place to find role models--but hey, teens are really into that. They want to know all about the glamorous lives of people like Hilary Duff and Miley Cyrus--wouldn't it be GREAT to have some deaf teenagers providing that kind of role for today's deaf teens? And, of course, they need role models in many different careers so that they can see deaf people working in fields in which they may be interested in doing themselves. We are always on the lookout for things like this--my daughter has always been very interested in meeting others like herself. Usually, though, when she notices someone else wearing hearing aids, it is an elderly person(not deaf, just lost hearing as they aged)! That is SO not the same thing! Is it just her, or do other people go around peeking at people's ears to see if maybe there are hearing aids or cochlear implants there? She is discreet, of course--but she gets excited when she notices someone whose ears look like hers(with hearing aids in them)! And then the Bluetooth came out--anyone else look at one and think "hearing aids" until they got a bit closer? Anyway--for my daughter, finding others who wear hearing aids has always been an interesting endeavor. She will be in "hog heaven" at the deaf school!

Thank u and I understand what u mean.

My deaf brother is friends with Shoshanna Stern. I dont know if they still keep in touch though.

I think less deaf people are interested in deaf education cuz of the push for the oral-only philosophy on all deaf children now. It is unfortunate.

 

[jillio]

I am curious about CART--is that the same thing as "real time captioning"? Even when students are understanding things through spoken English and/or ASL, it seems that the captioning/transcription would be a helpful tool. I am just imagining that having EVERYTHING that is said or signed in class completely translated into written English would be good, right? Kind of like "court transcription"--a visible reference to everything that is said in court? Wouldn't it be a great extra tool? I'm thinking that it could be a great way of having notes from class--it is hard for deaf/hh kids to make that transfer from catching what is presented and understanding to writing down notes about what is presented. I know that in public schools, some deaf/hh kids have note-takers. I don't know a lot about CART--I was thinking that it was a mechanical equivalent of a note-taker, or is it an individual who is transcripting? Isn't there now technology that translates all speech into print? Hmm...but what about kids who use ASL--how can that all be translated into print? I guess there just needs to be LOTS and LOTS of printed materials given to the students. Still, I really like the idea of everything presented being translated into print--is CART a good tool for that?

CART is a transcribing service. It has pluses and minuses. One of the drawbacks is that a child who is language delayed, or is deficient in reading skills, will not be able to keep up with the transcription. Most often, transcription services do not provide a written transcript. The student reads the transcription during class from a computer terminal.