FDA-Shocking Results on CI Statically

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Well, you are right, it is always a matter of personal ideas.
In my experience I would say that a significant part of the teenagers could not have the ability to make such a choice properly... A 6 yr-old child is very young, besides cultural habits!
 
Sorry, but it is pretty easy to say "if I had hearing impaired children"... If you really have a child with this problem your role of parent is to take decisions for him. Parents MUST decide for their children. And you have to decide for what you think is the best option. Making this means considering carefully all the pros and cons, evaluating the risks and being strong in going over the worries, because every parent would kill himself instead of exposing his child to any risk.

Ill do the same as my parents did for me. My parents gave me the best HAs(at the time anyway) and sent me to a speech therapist twice a week. They also trained me to speak clearly and understand some speech. I thaught myself to read lips, if not, they would teach me that too. None of this carries any real risk. It's hard work however!

What's the sense of the role if you simply wait they grow up? You avoid responsibilities and the risk of doing something wrong, letting your child to take the risk.

Because being deaf is not a health issue. It's "inconvenient" but hard work and training can compenstate nicely for this disability. Many Deaf people don't even consider their deafness a disability but just a normal alternative to being hearing. I would want my child to have the best possible hearing but what if this isn't what my child wants? Alot of the Deaf on Alldeaf have no interest in a CI or even stem cells, they are perfectly happy/fine just the way they are and that's their choice!

There are so many decisions every mother and father take for their children, think about cultural habit, religion, education, experiences offered. What should they do? Do noting, close the children in a room waiting for them to grow up and when they are old enough ask them if they want to be catholic, protestant or whatever, if they want to go to a technical, scientific, or professional school, if they prefer to be free, or to follow rigid rules while they live in the family?

Because there's no health risk to any of the above! But when the children become adults, they get to choose all of this and can always change.

And if any medical decision has to be taken, easy: if you can, just wait until they can understand and let them to decide...
How can you think like that?!?!
The parents have to decide for their children, until they can decide for themselves.
Parents who decide to implant their child simply play their role. They give their child the possibility to develop spoken language more easily (hopefully) and give the child the possibility to choose between spoken language and sign language at the end.

For life or health preserving medical decisions, me and the doctor decide. For anything elective, the child decides when he's older or an adult. Cochlear implants(and stem cells for the matter) are borderline elective. They are a "want" rather than a "need" since it's been proven that deaf people are just as capable(saying they are less than capable would offend them) I developed spoken language just fine and every deaf child can develop language with speech training and going the oral route. Some parents choose both oral and sign language. I was never denied sign language, I simply chose on my own.

In many cases if you decide to not decide, you are deciding anyway. The decision is making your child signing only.

The choice to sign was left to me and I decided no at a young age. I taught myself to read lips and it's as natural to me as signing and speech is to others. Because a CI is permanent, you can never undo this. The child can always get a CI as an adult but can never undo CI if forced on the child as residual hearing goes bye-bye. Ive read around and there has never been a child who regretted not being forced with a CI, in fact they are thankful that the CI decision was left to them to decide when they were old enough. But ive read many children who stopped wearing CI and resent their parents for forcing CI on them. If CI(and stem cells) opens doors, I will let the child open the doors himself.
 
Ill do the same as my parents did for me. My parents gave me the best HAs(at the time anyway) and sent me to a speech therapist twice a week. They also trained me to speak clearly and understand some speech. I thaught myself to read lips, if not, they would teach me that too. None of this carries any real risk. It's hard work however!
They gave you the best they had at that time. CI was not an option. Conservative choices (wihout associated risks) are not always correct.
People can decide not to go for a CI, obviously, but it is the best technology now available. The risk of not going for it is exposing the child to a much higher unsuccess probability in developing speech. Nothing to do with health, OK.

Because being deaf is not a health issue. It's "inconvenient" but hard work and training can compenstate nicely for this disability. Many Deaf people don't even consider their deafness a disability but just a normal alternative to being hearing. I would want my child to have the best possible hearing but what if this isn't what my child wants? Alot of the Deaf on Alldeaf have no interest in a CI or even stem cells, they are perfectly happy/fine just the way they are and that's their choice!
What about those who are not happy with their status? I read a lot of people here saying they love to hear and they would like to hear better. You are among those. In principle those people are not perfectly fine with their hearing impairment.
Accessing CI or stem cells too late limit the potential to use the hearing you get at its best. In other words the probability to get the best out of it is STRONGLY decreased. This is not questionable.

Obviously I do not think deafness is bad by itself, the only bad aspect is that it may force to loose a significant part of the social world (the hearing one).
My personal and very humble opinion is that it is really ideal to accept our own status and live happy with it, nevertheless many deaf people happy with their deafness would be happy to be hearing if they could have access to it in the past, somehow... I do not want to think for any other, and I do not want to offend anybody!! This is just a personal opinion.

Because there's no health risk to any of the above! But when the children become adults, they get to choose all of this and can always change.
This is not true. Parent's cultural decisions cannot always be changed. The way children are grown up is so important for the persons they will become. Only a few can really change completely who they are.
OK, there is not health involved here, but nobody can tell me that these things are less important.


For life or health preserving medical decisions, me and the doctor decide. For anything elective, the child decides when he's older or an adult. Cochlear implants(and stem cells for the matter) are borderline elective. They are a "want" rather than a "need" since it's been proven that deaf people are just as capable(saying they are less than capable would offend them) I developed spoken language just fine and every deaf child can develop language with speech training and going the oral route. Some parents choose both oral and sign language. I was never denied sign language, I simply chose on my own.
You did it, but it is simply not true that every deaf child can do it. Of course a lot is due to the family and support, but it is pretty clear that for profound hearing loss only a minority does it.

Choosing for CI (or stem cells when will be available) does not neglect the access to signing language at all. Do not choose CI can neglect access to speech.
Anyway there is nothing wrong with the decision to neglect speech. I was questioning the decision to postpone the decision, simply because this can have important effects.

The choice to sign was left to me and I decided no at a young age. I taught myself to read lips and it's as natural to me as signing and speech is to others. Because a CI is permanent, you can never undo this. The child can always get a CI as an adult but can never undo CI if forced on the child as residual hearing goes bye-bye. Ive read around and there has never been a child who regretted not being forced with a CI, in fact they are thankful that the CI decision was left to them to decide when they were old enough. But ive read many children who stopped wearing CI and resent their parents for forcing CI on them. If CI(and stem cells) opens doors, I will let the child open the doors himself.
The internal part of CI is permanent, but I do not see the problem. You can decide not to wear the outer processor and you're not hearing anymore. Thinking you are "marked" because you have something in your head sounds a bit like a extreme religious concept and can be translated to other things like metal plates for healing bone fractures (also bone fractures usually are not life threatening and can be considered an "inconvenience", but I doubt somebody will refuse to get a metal part to be able to walk again)...
Anyway, the internal part can be removed. It's surgery, but pretty simple.
Loosing the residual hearing is not a problem if it is negligible or absent and nobody can state it cannot be restored in the future with stem cells/gene therapy... It's pure speculation. Moreover, if anybody wants to go for stem cells, it's pretty clear he/she is not so fine with deafness. Finally, without access to spoken language by CI, for many people (deaf or with very profoundly hl) stem cells could be good for accessing to sounds and noises only.
 
No, I wouldn't be denying my child the CI because of what others think. I want to let my child choose which doors he wants to open and close. I want my child to choose if she wants to use HA's or the CI, sign language or no sign language. I'm against making that decision for my child.

I'm neither pro-CI nor anti-CI. I'm just anti-choosing my child's hearing status.

That doesn't make sense. Are you giving the child sign? Then you are making the choice that they will be exposed to sign. That is adoor you forced open. Why is that ok but a CI isn't? Everything you do, every choice you make, everything is being "forced" on the child, the other things you just happen to think are right.
 
Being the hearing mother of a toddler born with a severe loss, I can tell you EVERY choice I have to make for her is not taken lightly. From the color of her ear molds to planning a future move to be closer to the state school for the Deaf. No choice I've made is easy. Not one choice has lifted the weight from my shoulders but I know in my heart that every choice has been the right one.

We are not implanting and will not be, even if her hearing deteriorates. I have many many reasons for this but have to say my biggest reason would have to be it just doesn't make sense to me. Why would I implant her? She's not ill. It's not life or death. It's not even a matter of 'quality of life'. There is absolutely no reason I can think of to make that decision for her, to risk her residual hearing unnecessarily. She will grow and develop completely supported by her family and the Deaf community. When she is much older (16+) and ready to make an informed decision and take responsibility for her health care, if she decides that a CI might be something she's interested in, we'll help her with that. Until then, the only rules we have are she will continue to wear her HAs and will continue speech.

Even at two and a half, my daughter has made many choices regarding her hearing loss on her own and we are honoring those. Right now, she's choosing to be Deaf. That's not saying she'll never have a spoken language. She could wake up tomorrow and suddenly have it click. Kids are funny that way, but if it never happens, who cares?
 
That doesn't make sense. Are you giving the child sign? Then you are making the choice that they will be exposed to sign. That is adoor you forced open. Why is that ok but a CI isn't? Everything you do, every choice you make, everything is being "forced" on the child, the other things you just happen to think are right.

I disagree.

At the end of the day, when the processor comes off, the child is still deaf. Some form of visual language is absolutely necessary to communicate. However, exposing a child to a language is absolutely nothing like a CI. A language is not invasive and can be dropped and forgotten. A CI is permanent. Even if it is no longer used it will forever effect a person.
 
I disagree.

At the end of the day, when the processor comes off, the child is still deaf. Some form of visual language is absolutely necessary to communicate. However, exposing a child to a language is absolutely nothing like a CI. A language is not invasive and can be dropped and forgotten. A CI is permanent. Even if it is no longer used it will forever effect a person.

I agree that visual language should be given, but NOT giving auditory information forever changes a brain too. Why not give everything you can?
 
I agree that visual language should be given, but NOT giving auditory information forever changes a brain too. Why not give everything you can?

It's called "self-ownership."

Ask any libertarians, anarchists, credobaptists or whatsoever what it means.
 
It's called "self-ownership."

Ask any libertarians, anarchists, credobaptists or whatsoever what it means.

I am all for child led parenting, believe me, but the child doesn't even know the options.
 
I agree that visual language should be given, but NOT giving auditory information forever changes a brain too. Why not give everything you can?

Because, in the case of a CI, you are also taking away, destroying residual hearing.

Many, many kids being implanted could and do benefit from HAs but are implanted anyway. I know of at least 2 non-profound infants who were implanted without even doing a HA trial. Why not develop what was there to start with?
 
Because, in the case of a CI, you are also taking away, destroying residual hearing.

Many, many kids being implanted could and do benefit from HAs but are implanted anyway. I know of at least 2 non-profound infants who were implanted without even doing a HA trial. Why not develop what was there to start with?

:gpost: OMG! I couldn't agree more!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is what ive been trying to say repeatedly!
 
Then you realize that people that embrace the concept of "self-ownership" don't believe in touching a person's body, right?

Yes. I know people who refuse to vaccinate and do not believe in traditional schooling because it is "forced". I see this as a different matter. If I do not choose this for my child, I am permanently closing a door that I could have given them. I am altering their brain forever. I am choosing to NOT allow them the choice later in life. I think that trumps.
 
No Clarity

With the loss of hair cells you also loose clarity. So what it the point of me having residual hearing if speech sounds like gibberish?
 
Because, in the case of a CI, you are also taking away, destroying residual hearing.

Many, many kids being implanted could and do benefit from HAs but are implanted anyway. I know of at least 2 non-profound infants who were implanted without even doing a HA trial. Why not develop what was there to start with?

Generally, because it is not useful. What good is hearing a loud enviromental sound, if you are never able to understand language?

It is about what you believe is important. I believe it is more important for my child to be able to understand spoken language than to be able to hear me clap very loudly, next to her, with her aids off.
 
It's not nonsense to certain people. You have no idea what his cultural background is. Some even retain the old pre-Industrial belief that as soon as the child could walk, they are "adults" capable of making their own decisions.
Certain religious branches believe that once a child turn somewhere between 8 to 13, they should be treated as adults upon the "age of reason" and have complete control over their lives. Of course you will see variations of this anywhere between eight to sixteen.
You don't honestly believe that? Humans have evolved and learned and are smarter than that now. Do you have children? Would you let your child that just learned to walk be on their own and make their own decisions as an adult?
 
It is about what you believe is important.

Exactly.

I do not feel it is important for my daughter to speak a spoken language. As long as she is confidently fluent in her chosen method of communication (ASL) and literate in at least 1 written language (preferably more, but I won't get my hopes up yet), I will be beyond pleased.
 
They gave you the best they had at that time. CI was not an option. Conservative choices (wihout associated risks) are not always correct.
People can decide not to go for a CI, obviously, but it is the best technology now available. The risk of not going for it is exposing the child to a much higher unsuccess probability in developing speech. Nothing to do with health, OK.

You are correct, but there's also risks to CI, including the surgery. One can use sign language, lipreading, writing, etc as alternate means of communication. I would only risk CI on my child if he had no residual hearing(ive said this in other posts)

What about those who are not happy with their status? I read a lot of people here saying they love to hear and they would like to hear better. You are among those. In principle those people are not perfectly fine with their hearing impairment.

They are happy with what their HAs give them. Many don't even want to try more recent, better HAs. Sound is not a major part of their lives and some have said they would only consider CI if they lost all their residual hearing, others will quickly adjust to a silent world. I would love to hear better but I only speak for myself and respect those who don't want better HAs, CI, stem cells or any other options. Those who aren't happy are the ones who consider CI or are waiting for stem cells, I agree with you there.

Accessing CI or stem cells too late limit the potential to use the hearing you get at its best. In other words the probability to get the best out of it is STRONGLY decreased. This is not questionable.

Don't forget some people still have enough residual hearing to keep their brain stimulated. Those who are late deafened should be in no hurry since their brain has already been wired for sound long ago. It's young children that should hear the best sooner than later. Stem cells will be a great option for this once it becomes FDA approved. Meanwhile they must make do with HAs if they have residual hearing or go for CI if they have no residual hearing.

Obviously I do not think deafness is bad by itself, the only bad aspect is that it may force to loose a significant part of the social world (the hearing one).

Some of the Deaf live only in the Deaf world. Those like me who live only in the hearing world, I make do with what I have. I am not a social person anyway.

My personal and very humble opinion is that it is really ideal to accept our own status and live happy with it, nevertheless many deaf people happy with their deafness would be happy to be hearing if they could have access to it in the past, somehow... I do not want to think for any other, and I do not want to offend anybody!! This is just a personal opinion.

It's possible for those who were born deaf who became hearing with stem cells at a very early age and exposed only to the hearing world. They would not know what it's like to be deaf anymore than someone born hearing.


You did it, but it is simply not true that every deaf child can do it. Of course a lot is due to the family and support, but it is pretty clear that for profound hearing loss only a minority does it.

Depends how profound. I consider 100db loss as the cutoff where HAs can still give significent benefit. Someone with an audiogram(in sig) that is not worse than mine can do it if I did it.

Anyway there is nothing wrong with the decision to neglect speech. I was questioning the decision to postpone the decision, simply because this can have important effects.

I would not postpone the decision if my child had worse hearing than I have or if he has no residual hearing. Otherwise he will develop speech just like I did with proper training. I have been there myself so I know it's possible. I am not going to consider my child any less capable than me!

The internal part of CI is permanent, but I do not see the problem. You can decide not to wear the outer processor and you're not hearing anymore. Thinking you are "marked" because you have something in your head sounds a bit like a extreme religious concept and can be translated to other things like metal plates for healing bone fractures (also bone fractures usually are not life threatening and can be considered an "inconvenience", but I doubt somebody will refuse to get a metal part to be able to walk again)...
Anyway, the internal part can be removed. It's surgery, but pretty simple.

The problem is the loss of residual hearing which means you are pretty much stuck with CI. I would only implant if no residual hearing or worse hearing than me.

Loosing the residual hearing is not a problem if it is negligible or absent and nobody can state it cannot be restored in the future with stem cells/gene therapy... It's pure speculation. Moreover, if anybody wants to go for stem cells, it's pretty clear he/she is not so fine with deafness. Finally, without access to spoken language by CI, for many people (deaf or with very profoundly hl) stem cells could be good for accessing to sounds and noises only.

I agree as long as it's negligible or absent. Then I know that no HA can help. But for someone with still some residual hearing, HAs will do for now till stem cells can give more residual hearing. I am going for stem cells because id rather live my life as a hearing person or get as much improvement as stem cells can give me. It's the same reason adults decide on CI, they are not fine with deafness. CI isn't a cure but it's a fix for those unhappy with how poor their hearing is otherwise. I am choosing to wait a short while for stem cells instead of getting CI now for good reasons that ive explained before in other posts and in my blog(see link in sig)
 
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