FBI : Aliens Exist

That's exactly my point. There's no predisposition in genetics or evolution towards intelligence, which is why I think the concept that alien life would have almost certainly evolved intelligence is more showing a limiting factor. It's not "grandeur" to recognize that out of the millions of species, humans have far surpassed all others in terms of intelligence, and while it would presumptuous to say that it won't evolve again, it's certainly not a convergent trait, so it's far from guaranteed, as well.

The entire theory of evolution and genetics is based on each generation expanding upon what was present in the previous generation. To say that there is no predisposition toward increased intelligence in genetics or evolution simply does not make sense.

You are referring to millions of species which are known on this earth alone. That is where the presumptuousness comes in. We simply do not know enough about any possibly alternate universe to assume that we, as earth bound humans, are the only "intelligent" species in existence. If it can happen here, to what we call human life, what makes you think it could not occur elsewhere?
 
Haha, my girlfriend doesn't like my definition of it either. She likes to think of our three cats (well, maybe just two of them, Silver just likes to poop everywhere that isn't a litter box) as intelligent and capable of understanding her.

Unfortunately, I have to stick with the biologists on the topic.

Whether you realize it or not, pooping everywhere that isn't a litter box is it's own form of communication.:cool2:

Animals, particularly domesticated animals, often understand more than they are given credit for, and are, quite often more perceptive than their human counterparts.
 
Whether you realize it or not, pooping everywhere that isn't a litter box is it's own form of communication.:cool2:

Animals, particularly domesticated animals, often understand more than they are given credit for, and are, quite often more perceptive than their human counterparts.

Have you been to the fire hydrant lately? Read any interesting blogs on it?
 
I'm with you and banjo on this one.

I should note that it has not been proven that aliens came to this earth.
That doesn't mean they haven't been here. Only that there's no good evidence that they have been to Earth.

**nodding** Nor has it been proven that there is not "intelligent life forms" existing in a cosmos that we have yet to have awareness of.
 
The entire theory of evolution and genetics is based on each generation expanding upon what was present in the previous generation. To say that there is no predisposition toward increased intelligence in genetics or evolution simply does not make sense.

Sure it does. Evolution doesn't "expand upon what's present in previous generations". It's much simpler than that. Evolution merely (passively) selects for increased survival in the environment a species currently exists in. There is no predisposition toward anything other than survival (well, more accurately, propagation of genetic materials).

You are referring to millions of species which are known on this earth alone. That is where the presumptuousness comes in. We simply do not know enough about any possibly alternate universe to assume that we, as earth bound humans, are the only "intelligent" species in existence. If it can happen here, to what we call human life, what makes you think it could not occur elsewhere?

The only observations about evolution and life we can make are based on what we can observe here on Earth. You can make up stories about what you think could happen elsewhere, but until you have an actual theory as to why you think something might happen that way, then that's "fiction" rather than science.

And you also mistook what I said - I didn't said it couldn't happen elsewhere. The law of large numbers alone proves that if it happened once with us, it's definitely possible to happen elsewhere. But "possible" and "likely" are extremely different, and since we've been unable to observe convergent evolution leading towards higher intelligences (unlike, something such as, say, sight, where we've seen dozens of different paths that evolution took to evolve sets of eyes), it's more likely a form of anthropomorphization to assume that intelligence would have arisen where life did elsewhere.

If, instead of that, you're saying that the law of large numbers dictates that there's at least one other life-bearing planet that would have intelligence arise, I'd be more likely to concede, but not nearly as likely to concede that it's possible that they and we could ever cross paths, since the lifespan of an individual species is such a small fraction of the time the universe as a whole has existed, that the odds of overlapping are just as likely to cancel out the odds of other intelligent life arising in the first place. And on the assumption that we're using Drake's Equation... You can easily get any answer at all based on coefficients that are made up.

Whether you realize it or not, pooping everywhere that isn't a litter box is it's own form of communication.:cool2:

Animals, particularly domesticated animals, often understand more than they are given credit for, and are, quite often more perceptive than their human counterparts.

Well I don't want to see/hear that kind of potty-talk around here :angry:

But on a serious note, I kinda doubt you'll be seeing any research indicating that my cat is capable of even doing something as simple as simple addition or subtraction.
 
But on a serious note, I kinda doubt you'll be seeing any research indicating that my cat is capable of even doing something as simple as simple addition or subtraction.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_DeoUax2da8]YouTube - maggie-math-dog[/ame]

:lol:
 
Sure it does. Evolution doesn't "expand upon what's present in previous generations". It's much simpler than that. Evolution merely (passively) selects for increased survival in the environment a species currently exists in. There is no predisposition toward anything other than survival (well, more accurately, propagation of genetic materials).


The only observations about evolution and life we can make are based on what we can observe here on Earth. You can make up stories about what you think could happen elsewhere, but until you have an actual theory as to why you think something might happen that way, then that's "fiction" rather than science.

And you also mistook what I said - I didn't said it couldn't happen elsewhere. The law of large numbers alone proves that if it happened once with us, it's definitely possible to happen elsewhere. But "possible" and "likely" are extremely different, and since we've been unable to observe convergent evolution leading towards higher intelligences (unlike, something such as, say, sight, where we've seen dozens of different paths that evolution took to evolve sets of eyes), it's more likely a form of anthropomorphization to assume that intelligence would have arisen where life did elsewhere.

If, instead of that, you're saying that the law of large numbers dictates that there's at least one other life-bearing planet that would have intelligence arise, I'd be more likely to concede, but not nearly as likely to concede that it's possible that they and we could ever cross paths, since the lifespan of an individual species is such a small fraction of the time the universe as a whole has existed, that the odds of overlapping are just as likely to cancel out the odds of other intelligent life arising in the first place. And on the assumption that we're using Drake's Equation... You can easily get any answer at all based on coefficients that are made up.



Well I don't want to see/hear that kind of potty-talk around here :angry:

But on a serious note, I kinda doubt you'll be seeing any research indicating that my cat is capable of even doing something as simple as simple addition or subtraction.

And, survival, in an environment that increasingly calls for greater intelligence, is the way evolution has been headed for several decades. Therefore, a predisposition toward that which increases survival...greater intelligence. We certainly don't need stronger swimming skills...if we did we would have a predisposition toward developing fins and gills.
 
Genetics controls evolution, not to mention environmental need. If you are expecting dogs to evolve to the point of having the same form of intelligence as humans, you will be waiting some time as genetics places limits on the possibilities.

But, I still think it is presumptuous to believe that we, as earth bound humans, are the only creatures that have evolved to the degree of intelligence we exhibit. Unfortunately, intelligence appears to have created granduer in some.
However, if intelligent man was created and not evolved, then genetics and environmental need aren't relevant.
 
And, survival, in an environment that increasingly calls for greater intelligence, is the way evolution has been headed for several decades. Therefore, a predisposition toward that which increases survival...greater intelligence....
You aren't saying that people have been becoming more intelligent for several decades, are you? I haven't seen any evidence of that.
 
You aren't saying that people have been becoming more intelligent for several decades, are you? I haven't seen any evidence of that.

So you believe you are becoming less intelligent as the years go by?
 
And, survival, in an environment that increasingly calls for greater intelligence, is the way evolution has been headed for several decades. Therefore, a predisposition toward that which increases survival...greater intelligence. We certainly don't need stronger swimming skills...if we did we would have a predisposition toward developing fins and gills.

Except, the EEA wasn't explicitly "calling for greater intelligence". The first hominins developed intelligence because it helped them survive and reproduce. After that, the inklings of society may have (slightly) pushed hominins towards increased intelligence, through sexual selection.

But nothing in the EEA has been shown to have "called for" increasing intelligence, at all.

God said everything I need to know about this subject in His Bible books.

But God is still around. :)

Funny, I've not seen him anywhere...

However, if intelligent man was created and not evolved, then genetics and environmental need aren't relevant.

That theory was disproved a long time ago. Evolution is an accepted scientific fact.

You aren't saying that people have been becoming more intelligent for several decades, are you? I haven't seen any evidence of that.

Decades? Certainly not, evolution works on the scale of centuries/millenia to produce any sort of noticeable changes. Unless jillio was claiming to have seen evidence of evolution in modern-day humans, in which case I'd agree that there's been no evidence of that (short of some diseases, such as lactose-intolerance).
 
Funny, I've not seen him anywhere...
Yet.

That theory was disproved a long time ago.
Creation hasn't been disproved.

Evolution is an accepted scientific fact.
Not by everyone. It's still called the theory of evolution.

Decades? Certainly not, evolution works on the scale of centuries/millenia to produce any sort of noticeable changes. Unless jillio was claiming to have seen evidence of evolution in modern-day humans, in which case I'd agree that there's been no evidence of that (short of some diseases, such as lactose-intolerance).
I'm not sure what jillio was claiming, so that's why I asked. :dunno:
 
Creation hasn't been disproved.

It's an unscientific proposition that is, by definition, unable to be proven or disproven. There's no evidence whatsoever in favor of it, and it provides no new insights or predictions.

Not by everyone. It's still called the theory of evolution.

Scientific "theory" is different from the common usage of the word "theory" (meaning hunch or idea or whatnot). It's also still called the "theory of gravity" and the "atomic theory". Evolution has just as much (if not more) evidence in its favor than even the theory of gravity. It's a scientific fact.

Just because some people are unable to accept it because it contradicts their mythologies doesn't alter the fact that it's true.
 
It's an unscientific proposition that is, by definition, unable to be proven or disproven. There's no evidence whatsoever in favor of it, and it provides no new insights or predictions.

Scientific "theory" is different from the common usage of the word "theory" (meaning hunch or idea or whatnot). It's also still called the "theory of gravity" and the "atomic theory". Evolution has just as much (if not more) evidence in its favor than even the theory of gravity. It's a scientific fact.
Yes, I know the meaning is different.

Theories are still subject to change; they aren't the same as scientific "fact." Look at how many times the scientific theories for how the universe began have been changed.

There are some scientific "laws," too, such as Newton's Law of Universal Gravitation, so they're not all theories.

Just because some people are unable to accept it because it contradicts their mythologies doesn't alter the fact that it's true.
Just because some people are unable to accept that there is an Almighty Creator because it contradicts their rejection of God doesn't alter the fact that Creation is true.
 
If I were an alien, and knew of earth, not sure I would visit it, due to the extremely violent nature of the ruling species and their destructive use of controlled energy. Putting it under surveillance, perhaps.
 
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