Father Held Daughter in Cellar for 24 Years

Poor Kerstin. She never had a chance, didn't she? :(

I hope the Austrian authority will charge Josef with every crimes they can throw at him.

His eyes are creepy, I grant you that.

I hope Elizabeth and the kids will be given new names, location, and proper help in years to come.
 
Poor Kerstin. She never had a chance, didn't she? :(

I hope the Austrian authority will charge Josef with every crimes they can throw at him.

His eyes are creepy, I grant you that.

I hope Elizabeth and the kids will be given new names, location, and proper help in years to come.

Agreed. These children and their mother will be dealing with this for the rest of their lives. I sincerely hope that they are provided all the help they need to make it as easy as possible for them in the future. They have a rough road ahead of them.
 
I really had no clue that BPD was basicly non violent/non criminal sociopathy. I always associate it with Girl, Interrupted.....and whatsherface really didn't seem THAT affected by it.
The more I read about this case, the more I'm sickened. HOW could Josef DO something like that? It just boggles the mind.

I know. I've tried to understand why people do things like that. Intellectually, I understand that such people have no real affection for other people or any ability to feel for others as we would. Emotionally, I do not understand such people at all.
 
I know. I've tried to understand why people do things like that. Intellectually, I understand that such people have no real affection for other people or any ability to feel for others as we would. Emotionally, I do not understand such people at all.

Well, I think it's better we don't try to understand them lest we damage our soul or lose a part of ourself from walking in their shoes.

Honestly, I don't know how psychologists who treats those sort of people can deal with it personally. It would be safe to assume they'd burn out quickly.
 
Well, if you watch the movie again, look at her self destructive behaviors and rebelliousness. It doesn't always result in criminal behavior, but usually results in an inability to understand that rules apply to all. She saw herself as an exception. Sociopathy is technically, an inability to comply with social norms. It varies in degree. And sociopathy isn't really a dx, just a symptom of various other disorders.

Thanks for the clarification.

Some social worker thought I had BPD.

Someone who has worked with BPD said I clearly am not one. She said that many of them can be quite demanding and they've been known to wake up others in middle of the night, screaming at them while they're having a crisis.

I think I had a friend like that with BPD. Most are women but this person is a guy. We no longer speak to each other. I can see him doing that to others.
 
I bidded those book at Ebay. Still 13 hours go... Is it true story?

I search for DVD with subtitles but they don´t have subtitles on that DVD...:(

I dont think it was based on a true story but we never know if people have locked their family members like that in the attic.
 
Austria Worries About Tarnished Image After Incest Case

Fears in Austria are growing about how the case of a man who locked his daughter in a cellar for 24 years and fathered seven children with her will impact the country's image. Police plan to revisit missing person cases.

Several hundred journalists from all over the world are currently camped out in Amstetten, the town in eastern Austria where 73-year-old Josef F. perpetrated his crimes.

Austria's tourist industry is worried about the fall-out from the case. Many international commentators have interpreted it as a sign of something being rotten in the state of Austria -- that the case is a reflection of the state of the national psyche.

The nightmare scenario is that the country of mountains and lakes, of Mozart, Haydn and the Habsburg monarchy, will now be seen as "the land of dungeons," as one foreign newspaper has called it.

History repeating itself?

Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: Part of the basement where F. incarcerated his daughter for almost 25 years

Part of the problem is that the case is not the first of its kind. In August 2006, 20-year-old Natascha Kampusch escaped her kidnapper after spending eight years locked up in a basement dungeon.

And there were others: a mother who locked her daughters in the house for years, and, in the 1990s, the case of Maria, a girl who was kept in a wooden box by her parents.

The press response has been harsh. Italy's La Stampa said perversion and serial killers are "naturally not exclusively Austrian but there they are tied up with waltzes, yodelers and cuckoo clocks." The paper wondered whether F.'s crimes were "uniquely Austrian."

Poland's Dziennik newspaper asked: "Why are such beasts born in Austria?" While the Swiss Tagesanzeiger looked for causes in the conservative, agricultural and "arch-Catholic" society of lower Austria where "words such as civil society and self-responsibility are still alien."

In Germany, a number of newspapers have drawn a parallel between the subterranean nature of these crimes and the country's tendency towards repression. For years, Austria depicted itself as the victim of the Nazi regime rather than a complicit accessory.

Some circles inside Austria share this opinion. According to Austrian writer Josef Haslinger, his country has a "fatal tradition" of "brushing things under the carpet." He told German radio that Austrians should not act as if the Amstetten incest case "has nothing to do with Austria, as if it could happen anywhere."

Heads of state defend country's honor
Bildunterschrift: Großansicht des Bildes mit der Bildunterschrift: F.'s daughter is currently being cared for in a clinic

State representatives beg to differ. The vehement criticism of Austria has prompted an official response from the highest quarters. Austrian Chancellor Alfred Gusenbauer said in Vienna on Thursday, May 1, that citizens should not allow "the whole of Austria to be taken hostage by a single criminal, cruel perpetrator ... we have the reputation of our country to defend."

A day before, Austrian President Heinz Fischer also spoke up on behalf of the nation, saying in an interview that "there is nothing subtly Austrian about this case. The monstrousness that man is capable of can be revealed anywhere." This can be proven, he said, by looking at the "worldwide horror headlines of recent years."

Austria's leaders will be relieved to hear that some analysts believe the damage to the country's image will not be permanent.

Market researcher Wolfgang Bachmayer told the DPA news agency that the qualities normally associated with Austria -- tradition and coziness -- would eventually be restored in the public mind, while another market researcher, Karin Cwritila, said the Alpine country would win back its classic image as an "island of the blessed."

Austria Worries About Tarnished Image After Incest Case | Europe | Deutsche Welle | 02.05.2008


Accord TV News, some Austrians felt that world medias made an extreme over their country´s image. It shows that Austria is not alone but other countries as well...
 
I dont think it was based on a true story but we never know if people have locked their family members like that in the attic.

Yes, I know what you mean. It´s not just that Josef but other parents did the same to their children in different way... Read the article, I just provided to.
 
Poor Kerstin. She never had a chance, didn't she? :(

Don´t say "never" yet. Yes the doctors have little hopes for her recovery and said that she has low chance to be alive. :(

I hope the Austrian authority will charge Josef with every crimes they can throw at him.

Yes, I want to make sure that monster NEVER get out of jail.

His eyes are creepy, I grant you that.

Exactly

I hope Elizabeth and the kids will be given new names, location, and proper help in years to come.

I already said in previous post that they will have their new intendity and start new life somewhere.
 
How's that? My hearing brother started torturing animals when he was 5. How, at 5 was he made to have a predepostion to sociopath behaviors?
At the age of 5, children still haven't developed the full sense of what's right or wrong. If they're enjoying something that they shouldn't enjoy, then they need to be taught why it's wrong or bad.

Bad behavior is usually caused by nuture, not nature. (nature = being born with it; nuture = being raised with it)
 
:mad: That's stupid of father!!! He is so sicko! He need to stay in the prison in rest of life! I feeling bad for daughter. This is so disgusted!
 
Thanks for the clarification.

Some social worker thought I had BPD.

Someone who has worked with BPD said I clearly am not one. She said that many of them can be quite demanding and they've been known to wake up others in middle of the night, screaming at them while they're having a crisis.

I think I had a friend like that with BPD. Most are women but this person is a guy. We no longer speak to each other. I can see him doing that to others.

I certainly haven't seen anything from you that would lead me to suspect BPD! You are correct...they are quite demanding. The world revolves around them, you know. Very needy people. Men are infrequently diagnosed with BPD, but it isn't unheard of. I can certainly understand why you avoid your friend with the symptoms, but am sure that the reason he attributes to the dissolution is that you are at fault and he is but a poor victim.:giggle:
 
Yes they do have at Police criminal system. They keep their crime background in police criminal system.

Yes, there´re parole officers here in Europe. Depend on Judge´s decision how long they have to check with them.

But do the sex criminals have to register so the public know who they are? That is, does the general public have access to the sex offender list so they can protect themselves?


Please don´t compare rapist with Fritzi´s case because Fritzi´s case is total different as rapists.
I'm not talking about his current case. I'm talking about the time he was arrested for rape years ago. He served only 18 months, then they let him free. That was before he imprisoned his daughter. Why did they let him out so quickly? Why was he allowed to have access to children? It seems that no one kept track of him after he finished his 18-month sentence.

The punishment is too soft and easy.
 
I'm lost at words when I read this thread. There is no amount of ways that can be imaginable of this incident. I mean, It's amazing how someone so vile can do such thing to its OWN family.

The children who were traumatized will need a lot of help but I'm beginning to wonder, is it too late due to the severity of the trauma itself?
 
I have a feeling that the oldest two who were held captive (Kirsten and Stefan) are going to be living in assisted care facilities for the rest of their lives (the Austrian parallel to a nursing home for the mentally challenged). Elisabeth may or may not be able to re-adjust to life outside the cellar, but the 5 year old does have a good chance of leading a normal life but will need to be watched closely since alot of what he has seen is probably ingrained into his brain as normal when in fact it is not.

The other children who lived upstairs will need to go through greif counseling as well as Elisabeth who has a long road of recovery for her.

This is indeed creepy. I have seen Flowers in the Attic and that movie creeped me out.
 
I saw TV news at few minutes ago.

They said: Doctors are fighting to save Kerstin´s life and said that her health issue seem improve bit... Hopefully she is survive.

Yes, it´s true that Rosemarie know nothing what and how her husband´s double life. Due cousellor´s experience saying that Rosemarie is not only one who know nothing about their spouse/partner´s double life.

A lot of people know her and said that she is very scare of her husband and unable to question or urge him what she wants.

A lot of people sign and draw on the big paper in the church for Elisabeth & children including family. It´s really very nice thoughtful of them to think of Elisabeth & children including family.

Elisabeth is much older than her own age to compare with her 69 years old mother Rosemarie, says Doctor. :(

All of cellar children recieve health examination... because they don´t receive shot and dental accord health law. It likely that Josef get extra charge for negligence care of children´s health. Krestin & Stefan lost most of their teeth. Their bones are weak...
 
I have a feeling that the oldest two who were held captive (Kirsten and Stefan) are going to be living in assisted care facilities for the rest of their lives (the Austrian parallel to a nursing home for the mentally challenged). Elisabeth may or may not be able to re-adjust to life outside the cellar,

I don´t think so. 3 cellar children strongly depend on their mother Elisabeth. They would not separate cellar children from their mother Elisabeth. They all are under authorites´s care. It says that 2 cellar sons talk well and friendly. Nurses love them. They are happy and exciting but one thing they can´t stand sunlight and parniod to new world. It takes them time to learn new world but Elisabeth. :(

but the 5 year old does have a good chance of leading a normal life but will need to be watched closely since alot of what he has seen is probably ingrained into his brain as normal when in fact it is not.

Yes, that´s right. Everyone says that he is very exciting and happy... All his dream wish is SIT on the car... now his dream comes true is sat on police´s car for a first time and watch sky and ask Doctor... Is God there? I beleive he will get a good chance to learn new world but Stefan and Krestin...? :( I beleive they will only if they want to.

The other children who lived upstairs will need to go through greif counseling as well as Elisabeth who has a long road of recovery for her.

Yes, they are. It´s bad shock for them.
 
But do the sex criminals have to register so the public know who they are? That is, does the general public have access to the sex offender list so they can protect themselves?

Huh? Do we have to know their past background?

I'm not talking about his current case. I'm talking about the time he was arrested for rape years ago. He served only 18 months, then they let him free. That was before he imprisoned his daughter. Why did they let him out so quickly? Why was he allowed to have access to children? It seems that no one kept track of him after he finished his 18-month sentence.

The punishment is too soft and easy.


Yeah, I am wondering the same, too. I learn what and how he did in 1960s is tempt to rape Nurse. :ugh3:
 
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