Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery

[Eater of Worlds]

Why do you guys think they are faking the video of her moving her feet? It's entirely possible that she is moving her feet in response to the cold ice cube, because not all reflexes require the brain to create a response.

I'm sure they aren't showing her face because she's got tubes coming from her throat and she's probably not looking that great. I read a recent article that says they haven't been able to stabilize her yet, probably meaning that they can't keep her temperature up (because that happens with brain death) and I'm wondering if any of her organs are shutting down like her kidneys, which would make her death very unattractive. They may just not want to show her tracheostomy to keep it out of people's minds that this girl is tubed up to keep her "alive" There were some photos of her in her bed while s till on a tube that was in her mouth to her lungs before she was moved out of the first hospital but her sister took them down right away due to the response she was getting.

I also read that the girl was talking and laughing after the surgery, which is a huge no, she had to be quiet and basically not talk much at all while the initial healing was going on. She was fed small pieces of a burger from McDonald's while in recovery and they had huge numbers of family parading through. After basic tonsil surgery you only eat soft foods like milkshakes (without a straw! use a spoon) or broth, let alone a more serious surgery like UPPP.

I also disbelieve that they screamed for help and no nurse came. Apparently the recovery area they were in was one big room divided by curtains. There's no way a busy hospital with a bunch of people in surgical recovery is going to have not a single nurse nearby. Recovery rooms after surgery are places of intensive nursing, they have to be alert to people coming out of anesthesia, being in pain and needing pain control, watching for complications, etc. There's just absolutely no way they'd leave patients by themselves in that situation.

Plus, I've mentioned before they suctioned her herself. Not only could they have ripped open her stitches, they could have caused new bleeding by stabbing her in an area that was inflamed from surgery that has a lot of blood flow, plus they could have caused brachycardia by pressing against the vagus nerve with the suction tube or hell, caused a complete block so no electrical signals were sent to the heart and it stopped working. They never will admit to the public that they may have caused her problems and they have been scrubbing the net to remove traces of things they have said they've done.

 

[Reba]

Why do you guys think they are faking the video of her moving her feet? It's entirely possible that she is moving her feet in response to the cold ice cube, because not all reflexes require the brain to create a response.

I'm sure they aren't showing her face because she's got tubes coming from her throat and she's probably not looking that great. I read a recent article that says they haven't been able to stabilize her yet, probably meaning that they can't keep her temperature up (because that happens with brain death) and I'm wondering if any of her organs are shutting down like her kidneys, which would make her death very unattractive. They may just not want to show her tracheostomy to keep it out of people's minds that this girl is tubed up to keep her "alive" There were some photos of her in her bed while s till on a tube that was in her mouth to her lungs before she was moved out of the first hospital but her sister took them down right away due to the response she was getting.

I also read that the girl was talking and laughing after the surgery, which is a huge no, she had to be quiet and basically not talk much at all while the initial healing was going on. She was fed small pieces of a burger from McDonald's while in recovery and they had huge numbers of family parading through. After basic tonsil surgery you only eat soft foods like milkshakes (without a straw! use a spoon) or broth, let alone a more serious surgery like UPPP.

I also disbelieve that they screamed for help and no nurse came. Apparently the recovery area they were in was one big room divided by curtains. There's no way a busy hospital with a bunch of people in surgical recovery is going to have not a single nurse nearby. Recovery rooms after surgery are places of intensive nursing, they have to be alert to people coming out of anesthesia, being in pain and needing pain control, watching for complications, etc. There's just absolutely no way they'd leave patients by themselves in that situation.

Plus, I've mentioned before they suctioned her herself. Not only could they have ripped open her stitches, they could have caused new bleeding by stabbing her in an area that was inflamed from surgery that has a lot of blood flow, plus they could have caused brachycardia by pressing against the vagus nerve with the suction tube or hell, caused a complete block so no electrical signals were sent to the heart and it stopped working. They never will admit to the public that they may have caused her problems and they have been scrubbing the net to remove traces of things they have said they've done.

Some good points to consider.

 

[Barbaro]

Why do you guys think they are faking the video of her moving her feet? It's entirely possible that she is moving her feet in response to the cold ice cube, because not all reflexes require the brain to create a response.

I'm sure they aren't showing her face because she's got tubes coming from her throat and she's probably not looking that great. I read a recent article that says they haven't been able to stabilize her yet, probably meaning that they can't keep her temperature up (because that happens with brain death) and I'm wondering if any of her organs are shutting down like her kidneys, which would make her death very unattractive. They may just not want to show her tracheostomy to keep it out of people's minds that this girl is tubed up to keep her "alive" There were some photos of her in her bed while s till on a tube that was in her mouth to her lungs before she was moved out of the first hospital but her sister took them down right away due to the response she was getting.

I also read that the girl was talking and laughing after the surgery, which is a huge no, she had to be quiet and basically not talk much at all while the initial healing was going on. She was fed small pieces of a burger from McDonald's while in recovery and they had huge numbers of family parading through. After basic tonsil surgery you only eat soft foods like milkshakes (without a straw! use a spoon) or broth, let alone a more serious surgery like UPPP.

I also disbelieve that they screamed for help and no nurse came. Apparently the recovery area they were in was one big room divided by curtains. There's no way a busy hospital with a bunch of people in surgical recovery is going to have not a single nurse nearby. Recovery rooms after surgery are places of intensive nursing, they have to be alert to people coming out of anesthesia, being in pain and needing pain control, watching for complications, etc. There's just absolutely no way they'd leave patients by themselves in that situation.

Plus, I've mentioned before they suctioned her herself. Not only could they have ripped open her stitches, they could have caused new bleeding by stabbing her in an area that was inflamed from surgery that has a lot of blood flow, plus they could have caused brachycardia by pressing against the vagus nerve with the suction tube or hell, caused a complete block so no electrical signals were sent to the heart and it stopped working. They never will admit to the public that they may have caused her problems and they have been scrubbing the net to remove traces of things they have said they've done.

I certainly don't think the video was fake. I have been waiting for any reports regarding Jadi's major organs failing or not. Once her major organs start decline, I sure hope the mother see the light, and would let her go before they turn mush.

 

[Calvin]

You have a good point... I was saying that why didn't the mother show the girl's face then show us her feet? I have a feeling that the mother is hiding some facts from the public and trying to slander the hospital. Suppose if that's a different girl and she moves the feet trying to confuse people.... that's a very wrong thing to do.

A twitched feet doesn't mean that the brain is alive.

Why do you guys think they are faking the video of her moving her feet? It's entirely possible that she is moving her feet in response to the cold ice cube, because not all reflexes require the brain to create a response.

I'm sure they aren't showing her face because she's got tubes coming from her throat and she's probably not looking that great. I read a recent article that says they haven't been able to stabilize her yet, probably meaning that they can't keep her temperature up (because that happens with brain death) and I'm wondering if any of her organs are shutting down like her kidneys, which would make her death very unattractive. They may just not want to show her tracheostomy to keep it out of people's minds that this girl is tubed up to keep her "alive" There were some photos of her in her bed while s till on a tube that was in her mouth to her lungs before she was moved out of the first hospital but her sister took them down right away due to the response she was getting.

I also read that the girl was talking and laughing after the surgery, which is a huge no, she had to be quiet and basically not talk much at all while the initial healing was going on. She was fed small pieces of a burger from McDonald's while in recovery and they had huge numbers of family parading through. After basic tonsil surgery you only eat soft foods like milkshakes (without a straw! use a spoon) or broth, let alone a more serious surgery like UPPP.

I also disbelieve that they screamed for help and no nurse came. Apparently the recovery area they were in was one big room divided by curtains. There's no way a busy hospital with a bunch of people in surgical recovery is going to have not a single nurse nearby. Recovery rooms after surgery are places of intensive nursing, they have to be alert to people coming out of anesthesia, being in pain and needing pain control, watching for complications, etc. There's just absolutely no way they'd leave patients by themselves in that situation.

Plus, I've mentioned before they suctioned her herself. Not only could they have ripped open her stitches, they could have caused new bleeding by stabbing her in an area that was inflamed from surgery that has a lot of blood flow, plus they could have caused brachycardia by pressing against the vagus nerve with the suction tube or hell, caused a complete block so no electrical signals were sent to the heart and it stopped working. They never will admit to the public that they may have caused her problems and they have been scrubbing the net to remove traces of things they have said they've done.

 

[Eater of Worlds]

They are so wrapped up in their grief they don't realize that the way her feet move in the video isn't the way people with normal brains respond to cold on the bottom of their feet. You can tell that the feet aren't moving if her brain responded.

I'm wondering if they're not showing her face because kidney failure has started. With brain death nothing works right including the endocrine system and your kidneys are often the first to go.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

Why do you guys think they are faking the video of her moving her feet? It's entirely possible that she is moving her feet in response to the cold ice cube, because not all reflexes require the brain to create a response.

I'm sure they aren't showing her face because she's got tubes coming from her throat and she's probably not looking that great. I read a recent article that says they haven't been able to stabilize her yet, probably meaning that they can't keep her temperature up (because that happens with brain death) and I'm wondering if any of her organs are shutting down like her kidneys, which would make her death very unattractive. They may just not want to show her tracheostomy to keep it out of people's minds that this girl is tubed up to keep her "alive" There were some photos of her in her bed while s till on a tube that was in her mouth to her lungs before she was moved out of the first hospital but her sister took them down right away due to the response she was getting.

I also read that the girl was talking and laughing after the surgery, which is a huge no, she had to be quiet and basically not talk much at all while the initial healing was going on. She was fed small pieces of a burger from McDonald's while in recovery and they had huge numbers of family parading through. After basic tonsil surgery you only eat soft foods like milkshakes (without a straw! use a spoon) or broth, let alone a more serious surgery like UPPP.

I also disbelieve that they screamed for help and no nurse came. Apparently the recovery area they were in was one big room divided by curtains. There's no way a busy hospital with a bunch of people in surgical recovery is going to have not a single nurse nearby. Recovery rooms after surgery are places of intensive nursing, they have to be alert to people coming out of anesthesia, being in pain and needing pain control, watching for complications, etc. There's just absolutely no way they'd leave patients by themselves in that situation.

Plus, I've mentioned before they suctioned her herself. Not only could they have ripped open her stitches, they could have caused new bleeding by stabbing her in an area that was inflamed from surgery that has a lot of blood flow, plus they could have caused brachycardia by pressing against the vagus nerve with the suction tube or hell, caused a complete block so no electrical signals were sent to the heart and it stopped working. They never will admit to the public that they may have caused her problems and they have been scrubbing the net to remove traces of things they have said they've done.

If the parents can't keep the girl temperature up why in the Hell are they putting ice cubes on her feet ??? That will only bring her temperature down more.

 

[ambrosia]

If the parents can't keep the girl temperature up why in the Hell are they putting ice cubes on her feet ??? That will only bring her temperature down more.

To illicit a response?? Kinda of like poking a persons feet and legs if they're paralyzed to test for sensation.

 

[whatdidyousay!]

To illicit a response?? Kinda of like poking a persons feet and legs if they're paralyzed to test for sensation.

I know why they put the ice on the her feet but there are other ways to get a response. It just made no sense putting ice on her when her body is too cold already.

 

[Calvin]

I feel it's more appropriate to have a burial for the girl. Without a brain and stem working, she's not coming back. The brain controls the body and temperature and many things. I can understand some people have religion beliefs that humans die by heart stop, not the brain. It's just sad for everyone in this situation.

They are so wrapped up in their grief they don't realize that the way her feet move in the video isn't the way people with normal brains respond to cold on the bottom of their feet. You can tell that the feet aren't moving if her brain responded.

I'm wondering if they're not showing her face because kidney failure has started. With brain death nothing works right including the endocrine system and your kidneys are often the first to go.

 

[ambrosia]

I know why they put the ice on the her feet but there are other ways to get a response. It just made no sense putting ice on her when her body is too cold already.

Ahh sorry misunderstood your question.

 

[Calvin]

So, how does a body get better physically as a brain dead?

The mother of Jahi McMath, the 13-year-old Oakland girl who was declared brain-dead after a complicated surgery that involved removing her tonsils, insisted in a Facebook post this week that her daughter has improved physically, but that it continues to be an "unbelievably difficult time" for the family.

Citing alleged death threats, the family has declined to say where they transferred Jahi's body after she was released by Children's Hospital & Research Center Oakland to the county coroner.

Jahi was declared brain-dead Dec. 12 after surgery three days earlier at the hospital to remove her tonsils, adenoids and uvula.

Family members won a court order keeping her on a ventilator, and eventually won permission to transfer her to an undisclosed care facility, despite broad consensus among medical experts that her body will continue to deteriorate.

The Alameda County coroner issued a death certificate without performing an autopsy.

But in a Facebook message posted Wednesday, Jahi's mother, Nailah Winkfield, wrote that "despite what people say about my daughter being dead and how I must be ignorant not to get that, I can tell you that she is much better physically since she has left Children's Hospital and I see changes that give me hope."

She went on to thank people "who view my daughter as the sweet, innocent, 13-year-old girl that she is and not a dead body or a corpse, I deeply appreciate that."

Medical experts and ethicists have criticized the decision to keep Jahi on a ventilator, saying there is absolutely no chance of recovering from brain death.

Bioethics experts also took issue with news media coverage that often repeated family assertions that the girl was alive, saying it clouded an issue the public already has difficulty grasping.

The Oakland girl underwent surgery Dec. 9. She was declared brain-dead after she went into cardiac arrest and suffered extensive brain hemorrhaging.

At least three neurologists confirmed that Jahi was unable to breathe on her own, had no blood flow to her brain and had no sign of electrical activity in her brain.

A court order kept Jahi's body on a ventilator while independent experts could be brought in to affirm the findings. Even so, the McMath family was able to secure the release of Jahi's body via the county coroner.

Bodies of the brain-dead have been maintained on respirators for months or, in rare cases, years. However, once cessation of all brain activity is confirmed, there is no recovery, Rebecca S. Dresser, professor of law and ethics in medicine at Washington University in St. Louis, told The Times.

The case could have long-term consequences.

Arthur Caplan, director of the division of medical ethics at New York University's Langone Medical Center, told The Times that the case could compel other families to "ultimately say, 'I'd like to take this body home and wait for a miracle.' That would be a public policy of disrespect for dead bodies."

"The ability to get clear about brain death has been a real obstacle," he said. "This hasn't helped at all."

In her Facebook post, Winkfield dismissed those critics, insisting that when it comes to her daughter, "I will never let her suffer."

"God can overcome all things and I believe that his will has yet to be fully revealed," Winkfield wrote. "I love Jahi and where there is love, there is hope."

Jahi McMath's mother insists brain-dead girl is 'not a corpse'

 

[Mewtilation]

Oh my.... I know it's hard to let go but dang...

 

[sierraiman]

It's a really sad and unfortunate situation in my opinion. I understand grief and everything but obviously the girl they love is just not there anymore. I know they're upset but at this point I would think seeing her go down hill would be even more upsetting and would cause the mother to reconsider her position.

 

[Foxrac]

So, how does a body get better physically as a brain dead?

Jahi McMath's mother insists brain-dead girl is 'not a corpse'

I believe that she will die eventually when her heart stopping work.

It could take months.

 

[MangaReader]

So, how does a body get better physically as a brain dead?



Jahi McMath's mother insists brain-dead girl is 'not a corpse'

Also she doesn't specify how exactly she is 'improving'.

 

[Calvin]

Yes, as the medical field stated it can take months or sometimes years. But at a huge cost to the patient's family paying for the care. Perhaps the family will eventually run out of money and become hopeless and to let it go when there is no money to continue. (No insurance covers a deceased body)

Q: How long can a person who is brain dead survive?

A: It's hard to know because in most cases families agree to suspend mechanical means of support, but it's safe to assume that a ventilator will not keep a patient's heart beating indefinitely, according to J. Randall Curtis, a professor of medicine and an intensive-care unit doctor at the University of Washington. The brain stem, the part that controls breathing, is no longer functioning in a brain-dead person. Although a ventilator can keep the heart and lungs working for a while, the organs will eventually shut down without input from the brain, Curtis said. Ventilated patients also are at risk of infection, he said.

"People's hearts have continued beating for a month sometimes, with the ventilator, but no one has ever been documented to be brain dead and come back from it," Curtis said.

Q-And-A: Jahi McMath's Brain Death Ignites Difficult Debate

There is very little research on just how long the body of a brain-dead person can be maintained. The discussion of brain death dates back to the 1950s in France with six patients who were kept "alive" for between two and 26 days without blood flow to the brain. This generated the idea that "perhaps there's a second way to die, because these patients will eventually die," Greene-Chandos said. (Previously, a person was considered dead only when their heartbeat and breathing stopped.)

Today, with ventilators, blood-pressure augmentation and hormones, the body of a brain-dead person could, in theory, be kept functioning for a long time, perhaps indefinitely, Greene-Chandos said. But with time, Greene-Chandos added, the body of a brain-dead person becomes increasingly difficult to maintain, and the tissue is at high risk for infection.

Life After Brain Death: Is the Body Still 'Alive'?

I believe that she will die eventually when her heart stopping work.

It could take months.

Also she doesn't specify how exactly she is 'improving'.

I agree, there is a lot of things the mother did not share the public on how she is improving physically. Sad thing is that the mother is deceiving the public.

 

[MangaReader]

I agree, there is a lot of things the mother did not share the public on how she is improving physically. Sad thing is that the mother is deceiving the public.

Perhaps she's saying it to keep getting donations. After all that is how they are funding it - through donations. The mother thinks that once she says 'improving', that'll motivate people to continue to donate.

 

[Calvin]

Could be... to keep her 'alive'

Perhaps she's saying it to keep getting donations. After all that is how they are funding it - through donations. The mother thinks that once she says 'improving', that'll motivate people to continue to donate.

 

[ambrosia]

The girl has been issued a death certificate. I think it's crazy they're letting the family do this to that poor girls body.

 

[respectyoda]

Perhaps she's saying it to keep getting donations. After all that is how they are funding it - through donations. The mother thinks that once she says 'improving', that'll motivate people to continue to donate.

There has been ZERO cases where a brain dead person has come back to life. It is completely different for a person who is in a coma. Thus, it is completely pointless for Jahi to be kept alive by the way of machines.