Family wants to keep life support for girl brain dead after tonsil surgery

[hoichi]

Terri Schiavo did not die from "pulling the plug." She was not on any life support equipment such as a ventilator. She was breathing on her own. She was diagnosed as brain damaged, not brain dead. She died two weeks after having her feeding tube removed. She was not in the same condition as this girl is.

In other words
She was starved to death.

On purpose.

 

[AlleyCat]

Terri Schiavo did not die from "pulling the plug." She was not on any life support equipment such as a ventilator. She was breathing on her own. She was diagnosed as brain damaged, not brain dead. She died two weeks after having her feeding tube removed. She was not in the same condition as this girl is.

I agree. My point was she didn't have brain function to function on her own anymore -- she was not awake, not talking, not "living life" as we do. She was in a coma for many years. She was still on machines (feeding tube) to keep her alive.

 

[AlleyCat]

So they are not human.

No, that is not what I said. I said they are not not human. They are still human beings. Just not of the same as we (e.g. posting right here on AD) are. I understand the "not not" sounds confusing - I could not think of a better choice of words.

 

[Reba]

In other words
She was starved to death.

On purpose.

Yes.

 

[seb]

The docs did this, according to the op....so yes indeed they should be paying for this..
Or do they get a free pass in ruining others lives?

---Doctors didn't do it to her, her family did by giving her a hamburger. Also there are risks to any surgery.

As for the charges re my question.

Depending on where you are, given former.cases, the chsrges would be from anywhere to.full rape oe.child molestation to none at all.

It wouldnt be necrophelia..

---Since she is clinically dead it would be.

In my serches anyway...

"You stated.....
"
"The definition of human being: a man, woman, or child of the species Homo sapiens, distinguished from other animals by superior mental development, power of articulate speech, and upright stance. Since Jahi can no longer do any of these things she is no longer a human being, but a dead corpse."

--- It wasn't my definition buy that found in the dictionary.

So most severly retarded, mentally challanged are not human by this definition, we had a few in Deaf school, who would where hocky helmets, as in be put in them, by others, they where unable to feed themselves, move much besides ..as all they coukd do was their head against the wall, and had no mental facaulty as to who they where or what they where.if it was not for other peoples intervention, they would not survive.....i spent much time with them....in detention....they where usually across the hall, when id skip...and i knew they wouldnt give me up..."-)..often the safest spot to be was with those kids....hows the saying go.......lose signs, sink crimes....mmmmmm...
.i gaurantee you they have the same protection under the law as those who can speak, move and are aware...under the law they are protected as human. Not as animals, or inanimate objects or property...they are by defnition human. as to your definition neither are Deaf who are not oral human ..nor those in a wheel chair....

---The big difference here is they can breath on their own and Jahi can't, since she is dead.

Do you care to reformulate your decleration as to who is a human and who is not.?.

---No! I will stick with what I posted!

Do you lack the situtational awarness as to where you are, as in allDeaf?

What situational awareness are you talking about?

 

[hoichi]

What situational awareness are you talking about?

Ohhhh....i dunno
Perhaps the idea that ability or.to use your words the power of articulate speech is a measure of who is considered a human bieng or not...

This being allDeaf and such.....

Mmm

Besides that though, is their anything else in your statement you wish to reformulate?
Or.is it properly understood that according to your statement, the sever mentally handicapped, and all those who cannot survive without the aid of machines or others are not human biengs? As welll as those in whell chairs, or who lack the ability to stand upright, or since you have, added inclusions, those who cannot.breath on.their own are now seemingly not.human?

Is.this what your arguing?
The statement your proud to stick with.?

A hamburgur really?
According to the op link, re wds, the girl wasnt even in the care of the family..

Yeah there are risks to.any surgery, and if any doc did this to mine, id make.sure he wouldnt be in a position to screw up again..then after my stretch, a couple of winters or summers...meh...id be out, again on with my life, while the doc would still be sipping his dinners through a straw......

There are risks in ruining lives
Even for doctors...

Are people that cant feed themselves human?
Or are they also.not of our species?

 

[deafdyke]

So they are not human.

Are.severly mentaly retarded, those unable to function on their own without the aid of machines or others also not human?

Is the measure of a human the ability to function on ones own independently of machines or out side aid?

If this girl, this nothing but a warm corpse was.assulted either sexually (it has happened.to tobthose inbrain.dead comas.before), would the law intervene as such, seeing her as a human, with all the legel protection that entails or would the law instead be used perhaps for the fsr lesser charges and.crimes such as desecration of a body..?

I ask again

Is the measure of a human the ability to function on ones own without the aid of machines or others?

You mean profoundly mentally disabled or extremely profoundly mentally disabled. NOT severe. Severe ID people are at the level of a toddler and can still function pretty well.

 

[seb]

Ohhhh....i dunno
Perhaps the idea that ability or.to use your words the power of articulate speech is a measure of who is considered a human bieng or not...

This being allDeaf and such.....

Mmm

Besides that though, is their anything else in your statement you wish to reformulate?
Or.is it properly understood that according to your statement, the sever mentally handicapped, and all those who cannot survive without the aid of machines or others are not human biengs? As welll as those in whell chairs, or who lack the ability to stand upright, or since you have, added inclusions, those who cannot.breath on.their own are now seemingly not.human?

Is.this what your arguing?
The statement your proud to stick with.?

A hamburgur really?
According to the op link, re wds, the girl wasnt even in the care of the family..

Yeah there are risks to.any surgery, and if any doc did this to mine, id make.sure he wouldnt be in a position to screw up again..then after my stretch, a couple of winters or summers...meh...id be out, again on with my life, while the doc would still be sipping his dinners through a straw......

There are risks in ruining lives
Even for doctors...

Are people that cant feed themselves human?
Or are they also.not of our species?

In regards to Jahi, she is unable to breath on her own and has had NO BRAIN activity in over two years, so she is in fact dead, so she is no longer a living human being. Without the ventilator putting air in and taking air out she can not breath on her own.

The definition I used is from one of the online dictionary's.

The family was with her when she started hemorrhaging and the reports I have read over the past two years have said the family had given her a hamburger.

Any surgery carries with it risks and someone has to be the one who makes up the statistics. Unfortunately, Jahi is the one who did in this case, but no malpractice was shown to be in evidence in this case. A friend of mine had a tonsillectomy a year ago and two weeks after the procedure he went to Costco and bought a hotdog and started bleeding and had to go to the hospital so they could get it to stop bleeding.

If a person has brain activity they are alive, so if they can't feed themselves or move for that matter, but they can think or talk or are aware of their surroundings they are still alive. Jahi can't do any of these things.

 

[hoichi]

You mean profoundly mentally disabled or extremely profoundly mentally disabled. NOT severe. Severe ID people are at the level of a toddler and can still function pretty well.

Yep thats what i mean

 

[hoichi]

In regards to Jahi, she is unable to breath on her own and has had NO BRAIN activity in over two years, so she is in fact dead, so she is no longer a living human being. Without the ventilator putting air in and taking air out she can not breath on her own.

The definition I used is from one of the online dictionary's.

The family was with her when she started hemorrhaging and the reports I have read over the past two years have said the family had given her a hamburger.

Any surgery carries with it risks and someone has to be the one who makes up the statistics. Unfortunately, Jahi is the one who did in this case, but no malpractice was shown to be in evidence in this case. A friend of mine had a tonsillectomy a year ago and two weeks after the procedure he went to Costco and bought a hotdog and started bleeding and had to go to the hospital so they could get it to stop bleeding.

If a person has brain activity they are alive, so if they can't feed themselves or move for that matter, but they can think or talk or are aware of their surroundings they are still alive. Jahi can't do any of these things.

So now your arguing those who cant breath on their own,or cant think or are in.fact not aware of their surroundings are in fact not human. I take it you have re thought the idea that speech or to use your words the power of articulate speech is a measure?

Its not actually about jahl.

The plm with formulating such ideas as to who is a human and who is not, while the ideas may stem from an individual case, in this case jahl, those ideas break out side those strict bounds and obviously as demonstrated by your posts have clear and dangerous ramifications, such as using ability or lack thereof to declare who is a human and who is not.

Such has been often used through the centuries, the idea that speech is a measure of who is a human and who is not,this of course has been used as one the tools through out the centuries to deny Deaf, legel protection as humans, as well as any who couldnt speak, such as the profound mentaly disabled..

There is a fundemental plm using ability, or the lack thereof, to declare and measure who is a human bieng and who is not.including the lack of brain activity.

Did you get lost on your way to stormfront?


As for the hamburgur. There are contridictory reports, as you have seen.
So you need to.be intelectually honest with yourself and ask
Why do you believe the report you do?
In whos interests is the report you.believe serve?

 

[seb]

So now your arguing those who cant breath on their own,or cant think or are in.fact not aware of their surroundings are in fact not human. I take it you have re thought the idea that speech or to use your words the power of articulate speech is a measure?

Its not actually about jahl.

The plm with formulating such ideas as to who is a human and who is not, while the ideas may stem from an individual case, in this case jahl, those ideas break out side those strict bounds and obviously as demonstrated by your posts have clear and dangerous ramifications, such as using ability or lack thereof to declare who is a human and who is not.

Such has been often used through the centuries, the idea that speech is a measure of who is a human and who is not,this of course has been used as one the tools through out the centuries to deny Deaf, legel protection as humans, as well as any who couldnt speak, such as the profound mentaly disabled..

There is a fundemental plm using ability, or the lack thereof, to declare and measure who is a human bieng and who is not.including the lack of brain activity.

Look, here it is in a nut shell, Jahi is DEAD! End of story! She is not in a coma, not in a vegetative state, she is DEAD! She has no brain activity, has had no brain activity for over two years, and is therefore DEAD, she stopped being a living breathing person when her brain died! Prior to that she was a living breathing human being, but is now a DEAD human corpse or if it makes you happy, a dead human body, being kept "ALIVE" by a machine that if you take it away or turn it off, all signs of "life" in her case will immediately stop, SHE IS DEAD!

 

[seb]

Did you get lost on your way to stormfront?

I'm kinda wondering the same thing about you! Let's see you want to keep a dead girl "alive" who will never be alive, because you believe that some doctor screwed up and killed her. Look surgery has it's risks and the number one risk of a tonsillectomy is bleeding and hemorrhaging, there wasn't a mistake made by the medical team, Jahi was just unfortunately the one who had a bad outcome to a more or less routine surgery.


As for the hamburgur. There are contridictory reports, as you have seen.
So you need to.be intelectually honest with yourself and ask
Why do you believe the report you do?
In whos interests is the report you.believe serve?

Yes, there are contradictory reports, but the initial reports were that the family gave her a little hamburger and that is when she started hemorraging. There story didn't change until they had talked to an attorney the next day. I will believe what I believe and you can believe what you want to believe for whatever reason.

 

[Reba]

I can't imagine eating any kind of meat after a tonsillectomy. When I had my tonsils removed (age 12 years) I was limited to Jello, pudding, milkshakes, etc. The foods had to be soft, not spicy, and not too hot or cold.

This is today's recommendations for aftercare and eating:

Childrens tonsillectomy manual

 

[Foxrac]

I can't imagine eating any kind of meat after a tonsillectomy. When I had my tonsils removed (age 12 years) I was limited to Jello, pudding, milkshakes, etc. The foods had to be soft, not spicy, and not too hot or cold.

This is today's recommendations for aftercare and eating:

Childrens tonsillectomy manual

I had tonsils removed when I was 4 years old in 1992 at VA hospital and I can eat any foods, exception of hard food. I remember that I had hamburger, mashed potatoes and baked beans for dinner after left hospital.

I noticed that children goes to home on same day after tonsil surgery - outpatient but during my time, overnight at hospital was mandatory and different surgical tool (they use traditional cut instead of laser), also mine was mostly painless but my sister had tonsils removed via laser and it was painful for her - she screamed and cried a lot - she was 10 years old by time.

 

[Reba]

I had tonsils removed when I was 4 years old in 1992 at VA hospital and I can eat any foods, exception of hard food. I remember that I had hamburger, mashed potatoes and baked beans for dinner after left hospital.

That is highly unusual and against medical protocol. I'm surprised that you had no pain. I'm glad that nothing bad happened to you.

I noticed that children goes to home on same day after tonsil surgery - outpatient but during my time, overnight at hospital was mandatory and different surgical tool (they use traditional cut instead of laser), also mine was mostly painless but my sister had tonsils removed via laser and it was painful for her - she screamed and cried a lot - she was 10 years old by time.

I had the traditional surgery and stayed in the hospital three days. They kept me one more day because I had a fever.

 

[seb]

I had tonsils removed when I was 4 years old in 1992 at VA hospital and I can eat any foods, exception of hard food. I remember that I had hamburger, mashed potatoes and baked beans for dinner after left hospital.

I noticed that children goes to home on same day after tonsil surgery - outpatient but during my time, overnight at hospital was mandatory and different surgical tool (they use traditional cut instead of laser), also mine was mostly painless but my sister had tonsils removed via laser and it was painful for her - she screamed and cried a lot - she was 10 years old by time.

You're lucky you didn't hemorrhage if you were eating that kind of food after you left the hospital. You might want to ask your parents when you ate the hamburger, I'm willing to bet that it was weeks after the surgery.

A friend of mine had his tonsils removed a year ago and almost two weeks post op he went to Costco and had a hotdog and started to bleed and had to go to the hospital and they had to cauterize his throat to stop the bleeding.

 

[Foxrac]

That is highly unusual and against medical protocol. I'm surprised that you had no pain. I'm glad that nothing bad happened to you.

I had the traditional surgery and stayed in the hospital three days. They kept me one more day because I had a fever.

Yes, I guess so.

but I think that tonsil surgery is mostly painless to toddlers but it is hard on older children and adults.

You're lucky you didn't hemorrhage if you were eating that kind of food after you left the hospital. You might want to ask your parents when you ate the hamburger, I'm willing to bet that it was weeks after the surgery.

A friend of mine had his tonsils removed a year ago and almost two weeks post op he went to Costco and had a hotdog and started to bleed and had to go to the hospital and they had to cauterize his throat to stop the bleeding.

I asked them and they told me - I had tonsil surgery at VA military hospital and they said no hard food, that all and they don't specific about what kind of food. I was fine with hamburger but had mild bleeding after eat and I was given fruit pops after dinner.

I remember about got Beauty and the Beast VHS as gift from my father too.

 

[deafdyke]

Yep thats what i mean

Thanks. Hate it when people misuse those terms. Even a profoundly ID kid can and does often interact, although on the level of a baby. Extreme profound (ie persistant vegetative state) is pretty rare for a child....although it does happen.

 

[Bebonang]

I can't imagine eating any kind of meat after a tonsillectomy. When I had my tonsils removed (age 12 years) I was limited to Jello, pudding, milkshakes, etc. The foods had to be soft, not spicy, and not too hot or cold.

This is today's recommendations for aftercare and eating:

Childrens tonsillectomy manual

I never had tonsil and it is against the rule not to have tonsil surgery anymore. That is why I don't understand why surgeon doctors wanted to performed tonsil surgery. There is suppose to be no tonsil surgery at all.

You have to remember that Jahi was very fat when she first was in the hospital. The doctors were concerned about her weight. Yeah, you are right, Reba, that she was not suppose to take hamburger. I don't know why family member gave her the hamburger if they do not follow light food rule after the surgery. Maybe the family member forgot about the rule to provide light food, not heavy food like hamburger. She was choking and was bleeding from her mouth. The doctors and nurses try to revive her back to normal but was unsuccessful. With the breathing machine, she manage to breath, I think. That is why it is far fetched to believe that she is still breathing after 2 years.

As for the movements on her body, that is really impossible when a child like Jahi has only nerve reflex. Parents seem like they are out of their mind not want to believe that she will never be back to normal again.

 

[Foxrac]

I never had tonsil and it is against the rule not to have tonsil surgery anymore. That is why I don't understand why surgeon doctors wanted to performed tonsil surgery. There is suppose to be no tonsil surgery at all.

You have to remember that Jahi was very fat when she first was in the hospital. The doctors were concerned about her weight. Yeah, you are right, Reba, that she was not suppose to take hamburger. I don't know why family member gave her the hamburger if they do not follow light food rule after the surgery. Maybe the family member forgot about the rule to provide light food, not heavy food like hamburger. She was choking and was bleeding from her mouth. The doctors and nurses try to revive her back to normal but was unsuccessful. With the breathing machine, she manage to breath, I think. That is why it is far fetched to believe that she is still breathing after 2 years.

As for the movements on her body, that is really impossible when a child like Jahi has only nerve reflex. Parents seem like they are out of their mind not want to believe that she will never be back to normal again.

I had tonsils removed because I was very sick child and missed a lot of school days due to chronic tonsillitis for year and I went emergency room frequently when my tonsils were very swelled so I cannot eat or drink at all, also I threw up too.

Without tonsil surgery, I will probably not around today.