Explain this thought process, please.

[jillio]

But honestly... take the populist tactics as suggested in #13.

That way, no one will complain! All they will do is blame the economy!

Hell, they do that now! That is why I am trying to figure out the thought processes behind the decisions people are making and why they would obviously vote against something that is in the best interest of themselves.

 

[jillio]

high tariffs. we need to stop whoring ourselves to foreigners.

Not all of it comes from tariffs. So, you think that we need to stop doing any kind of financial transaction with anyone outside the U.S. borders?

 

[Reba]

I consider fair application of taxes to be progress, yes.

Fair Tax? Yes. Income tax is NOT fair.

So tell me, how is the state to get out of debt otherwise?

First of all, how did they get into debt? Unwise planning and budgeting? Fraud and abuse? I don't know the Washington situation. You tell me.

How do other states without income taxes get by?

And will all of those that don't think that the wealthiest should be taxed, how exactly do you stand by that?

They do pay taxes. What makes you think that wealthy people don't pay taxes?

Do you refuse to use the infrastructure of your state? You expect the state to provide, yet you prevent the state from taxing the 2% of the population that can actually afford the tax without having to do without basic necessities.

In addition to the state income tax that I pay (and would like to abolish), I pay Federal income tax (which goes into the pot that pays for interstate highways and bridges), gas tax (which pays for state roads and bridges), city and county income taxes, sales tax, property tax, communication services tax, personal property tax, and business licenses and fees (which are really taxes by another name).

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Not all of it comes from tariffs. So, you think that we need to stop doing any kind of financial transaction with anyone outside the U.S. borders?

I think he only got China in mind. You know, the country that is currently absorbing the world's debt and food supply.

It's going to hurt the States a lot if they cut off ties with NAFTA.

 

[Jiro]

Not all of it comes from tariffs. So, you think that we need to stop doing any kind of financial transaction with anyone outside the U.S. borders?

that's what I'm saying - the federal government should be receiving fund from mostly high tariffs where they're free to make any investments. and no we shouldn't stop doing any kind of financial transaction with foreigners but they should reduce it and spend it wisely. What they're doing right now is wasteful and not beneficial for Americans.

I fail to understand the feds' thought process in spending over $740 billion in Iraq to this date and yet - Iraq still hasn't shown any improvement. How is it that it's costing us over $740 billion for a poor country?

 

[Tousi]

I think it failed, generally, on mistrust of the government....thinking that I (the voters) will be next. I understand Washington State taxes it's people higher than almost all other states even though they don't have an income tax.....they get you in a myriad of other ways......fiscal irresponsibility's the culprit. If I behaved, financially, like governments do, I'd be in prison for several lifetimes,

 

[jillio]

Fair Tax? Yes. Income tax is NOT fair.


First of all, how did they get into debt? Unwise planning and budgeting? Fraud and abuse? I don't know the Washington situation. You tell me.

How do other states without income taxes get by?


They do pay taxes. What makes you think that wealthy people don't pay taxes?


In addition to the state income tax that I pay (and would like to abolish), I pay Federal income tax (which goes into the pot that pays for interstate highways and bridges), gas tax (which pays for state roads and bridges), city and county income taxes, sales tax, property tax, communication services tax, personal property tax, and business licenses and fees (which are really taxes by another name).

Middle income population pays a disproprotionately large part of this country's taxes. Why? Because even though it looks as if the wealthy pay their share, they are provided loop holes and tax breaks that prevent them from contributing at the same rate as people who make only a small portion of their income. Yet they also enjoy all the advantages that those who make less and pay more enjoy.

And, since none of us here, I'm certain, fall into that wealthy category, why is it that we continue to give the wealthy permission to opt out at the expense of us?

 

[jillio]

I think it failed, generally, on mistrust of the government....thinking that I (the voters) will be next. I understand Washington State taxes it's people higher than almost all other states even though they don't have an income tax.....they get you in a myriad of other ways......fiscal irresponsibility's the culprit. If I behaved, financially, like governments do, I'd be in prison for several lifetimes,

That is a possible way of thinking that could have contributed to that vote. I think all have a general mistrust of the government. But that still doesn't really get to the why and how of the decision. But it's a start.

 

[jillio]

that's what I'm saying - the federal government should be receiving fund from mostly high tariffs where they're free to make any investments. and no we shouldn't stop doing any kind of financial transaction with foreigners but they should reduce it and spend it wisely. What they're doing right now is wasteful and not beneficial for Americans.

I fail to understand the feds' thought process in spending over $740 billion in Iraq to this date and yet - Iraq still hasn't shown any improvement. How is it that it's costing us over $740 billion for a poor country?

I agree. The decision to continue spending in Iraq makes no more sense than voting against something that would be of benefit to you.

Fact still remains that a portion of support for our infrastructure comes from income taxes. No matter how you feel about the fairness of an income tax, why would you continue to allow the wealthiest 2% to pay less than you through the political decisions you make.

(Keep in mind, the "you" is in general, not specific.)

 

[Tousi]

That is a possible way of thinking that could have contributed to that vote. I think all have a general mistrust of the government. But that still doesn't really get to the why and how of the decision. But it's a start.

A start, yes. Maybe they (the politicians) will come to their senses, start with themselves and truly work with the people to come up with something fairer. Something DOES have to be done.

 

[Reba]

Middle income population pays a disproprotionately large part of this country's taxes. Why? Because even though it looks as if the wealthy pay their share, they are provided loop holes and tax breaks that prevent them from contributing at the same rate as people who make only a small portion of their income. Yet they also enjoy all the advantages that those who make less and pay more enjoy.

And, since none of us here, I'm certain, fall into that wealthy category, why is it that we continue to give the wealthy permission to opt out at the expense of us?

Why indeed? Why do we perpetuate that by maintaining the IRS and Federal Income Tax?

If you want fairness in taxation, then the solution is to do away with all income taxes and use a consumption tax instead.

Why on earth would you want to create another unfair income tax?

 

[saywhatkid]

I realize that this might be a bit off topic, but bear with me...

Several years ago, maybe around 1982, I was working for a company that had a union, of which I was a member. When contract came up for renewal, the company wanted to add a new twist: a small contribution by the union workers towards our health care costs. I believe it was around $10 a month. Well, most of the guys snickered and said yes, because our wage increase would easily cover this.

Imagine our faces when the next contract came up, and the company asked for an increase. All along the union members had never had a concern about negotiating a number for the company. They had only dealt with percent increase in wages. From that day forward, every contract centered on TWO factors instead of one: wage increase and insurance increase. It never went away.

That is why I can understand the voters feeling a bit queasy on this, because once those things exist, they never go away.

 

[jillio]

I think he only got China in mind. You know, the country that is currently absorbing the world's debt and food supply.

It's going to hurt the States a lot if they cut off ties with NAFTA.

Exactly. That is why I am trying to figure out what is behind the thinking. It would appear that people are making political decisions based on emotion more than on logic, thought, and knowledge. To me, that is a dangerous situation for the country.

 

[Jiro]

I think he only got China in mind. You know, the country that is currently absorbing the world's debt and food supply.

It's going to hurt the States a lot if they cut off ties with NAFTA.

not just Chinese. I have a disdain for shrewdness use of our funds for foreigners.

America First.
Anything else... is the last.

If you wonder why we have became callous and uninformed to current events... it's because we're always owing to somebody. I'm sure you've already seen this psychological experiment.

Group A of 10 people. They arrived at Location A, thinking they're having a job interview or something. The manager came in late and hurriedly told them to walk to Location B few blocks away to finish rest of the paperwork but the time deadline is nearing. The people walked over there in a hurry. The experiment placed a crying homeless man in the middle who was bawling loudly like "I'm sooo ruined!! I have no money!! I lost my home and family!!! I need money to take bus home!!!" As they arrived at Location B, they were given an interview - a set of personality-based questions. They were asked if they would help out people in need and they said yes. The study showed that majority of them ignored the bum.... which contradicted with their answers. The videos showed that they knowingly ignored the bum.

Group B of 10 people. Same as Group A but the only difference is... they had ample amount of time to walk over to Location B. The bawling homeless bum was there too. The study showed that majority of them stopped to help him.. offered money or any assistance.

so yea...

 

[jillio]

I realize that this might be a bit off topic, but bear with me...

Several years ago, maybe around 1982, I was working for a company that had a union, of which I was a member. When contract came up for renewal, the company wanted to add a new twist: a small contribution by the union workers towards our health care costs. I believe it was around $10 a month. Well, most of the guys snickered and said yes, because our wage increase would easily cover this.

Imagine our faces when the next contract came up, and the company asked for an increase. All along the union members had never had a concern about negotiating a number for the company. They had only dealt with percent increase in wages. From that day forward, every contract centered on TWO factors instead of one: wage increase and insurance increase. It never went away.

That is why I can understand the voters feeling a bit queasy on this, because once those things exist, they never go away.

I can understand the queasy feeling. I can understand skepticism. When one is skeptical, one seeks knowledge to confirm or deny.

And the cost of providing insurance never went away, either. Just because it continues to be an issue doesn't explain voting against something that would be in your best interest just to "protect" the 2% that doesn't need protecting.

 

[jillio]

Why indeed? Why do we perpetuate that by maintaining the IRS and Federal Income Tax?

If you want fairness in taxation, then the solution is to do away with all income taxes and use a consumption tax instead.

Why on earth would you want to create another unfair income tax?

I don't know Reba. Why?

I agree, on the fairness of the income tax. But the fact of the matter is, it is our system currently, and it is the financial means by which our country and our state functions. We will not do away with it. All we can do is make it as proportionately as fair as possible. Letting the 2% get by with paying less tax proportionately than 98% of the population is hardly fair. Decisions such as this are paid for by the 98%...in other words, by you and me.

 

[jillio]

not just Chinese. I have a disdain for shrewdness use of our funds for foreigners.

America First.
Anything else... is the last.

If you wonder why we have became callous and uninformed to current events... it's because we're always owing to somebody. I'm sure you've already seen this psychological experiment.

Group A of 10 people. They arrived at Location A, thinking they're having a job interview or something. The manager came in late and hurriedly told them to walk to Location B few blocks away to finish rest of the paperwork but the time deadline is nearing. The people walked over there in a hurry. The experiment placed a crying homeless man in the middle who was bawling loudly like "I'm sooo ruined!! I have no money!! I lost my home and family!!! I need money to take bus home!!!" As they arrived at Location B, they were given an interview - a set of personality-based questions. They were asked if they would help out people in need and they said yes. The study showed that majority of them ignored the bum.... which contradicted with their answers. The videos showed that they knowingly ignored the bum.

Group B of 10 people. Same as Group A but the only difference is... they had ample amount of time to walk over to Location B. The bawling homeless bum was there too. The study showed that majority of them stopped to help him.. offered money or any assistance.

so yea...

That has been a finding of social psychology for many years now. Most people who actually believe they are humanistic are less so than they claim. But it also has to do with the by-stander effect, in which everyone believes that someone else will step up to the plate and the victim will be helped. The by-stander effect is why we do nothing, and create disparity for ourselves in the process.

 

[jillio]

Just to confirm: I amnot attempting to start an argument between conservatives and liberals. I am honestly attempting to understand what is behind a person voting against something that would be in their best interest.

 

[Jiro]

Just to confirm: I amnot attempting to start an argument between conservatives and liberals. I am honestly attempting to understand what is behind a person voting against something that would be in their best interest.

lol conservative and liberal? they're all same to me - crooks! .... except those who wants to abolish tax

 

[somedeafdudefromPNW]

Just to confirm: I amnot attempting to start an argument between conservatives and liberals. I am honestly attempting to understand what is behind a person voting against something that would be in their best interest.

I am just trying to figure out why the government is relying on the people to vote in something obviously will be seen on paperworks and receipts.