Experiences with my daughter.

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Lotte is a pretty little girl....I also have a little girl who is only a month younger than yours :)

I was just wondering why do you feel you have made the choice to put Lotte in an all hearing school. Did something at the deaf school turn you off? It would have been nice if Lotte knew sign language so she could communicate with the deaf teachers. I am sure the teacher who you said had a distorted voice felt bad when Lotte kept her distance from her.
 
Lotte is a pretty little girl....I also have a little girl who is only a month younger than yours :)

I was just wondering why do you feel you have made the choice to put Lotte in an all hearing school. Did something at the deaf school turn you off? It would have been nice if Lotte knew sign language so she could communicate with the deaf teachers. I am sure the teacher who you said had a distorted voice felt bad when Lotte kept her distance from her.
The feeling is one of uneasiness... What makes the difference. And also, there's no way of finding out.
But, there's a huge difference between the schools. And the deaf school also has hearing children. In fact, the deaf/hoh group is really small.
And sure, knowing sign is great.. question is, would it have interfered with learning Dutch and Norwegian.

We had a strong feeling that language development was held back by being in a speech AND sign environment. And looking at her now, we can see that being in a speech-environment is really working for her. She's doing great....

About the teacher with the distorted voice.... Lotte was shy with her, and did not understand her. She didn't reject her. Just didn't make the connection like with the other teacher.
And lack of sign has to do with that. Is it a pitty...??? At some level it is. At another level, it is a small negative in a huge sea of positive..
It's like life...
 
Cloggy,

Glad to hear Lotte is doing so well.

In response to your question on whether it was a negative or not. I would say no.

If Lotte is doing extremely well, and loves the direction you have taken with her, nothing you can or will do will be a negative for her.

I understand something many posters do not. I do understand that you are not *closed* to having sign in Lotte's life. When Lotte is ready she will sign.

BUT, I also understand where the other posters are coming from. Kids do pick up on their parents wants. It may be that you are unconciensely *sp?* conveying the message to Lotte, that speech is what you want her to do and not sign.

However, I see that Lotte is a happy child. CI or not, that little girl is happy and that is all that matters. Every picture of Lotte you have posted that I have seen, she is smiling and happy.

The CI did not do that for her Cloggy, you and your wife did that. Only a well loved child who is secure in her surroundings is that happy.

Unfortunately Cloggy, not all kids have parents like you, who does truly want the best for their children. And that is where alot of us are concerned with this CI route. I'm not saying any posters here are like that, but you have to admit there are parents who are.

Lotte, is definitely gonna grow up in a very positive enviroment. So, unless Lotte viewed that encounter as a negative for her, then I would say no it wasn't a negative.

An adult can handle rejection. Some children simply shy away from adult because they sense something they don't like. I would not put this experience down to simply because the teacher had a distorted voice. It could have been something totally different.

Sometimes even I, meet people I instantly shy away from or do not like even. There is no reason for me to do so, but something inside tells me to. I learned to follow that as it is usually right.

Cloggy, keep up the wonderful *im not gonna say work* but parenting you do with Lotte. I say that because the CI is not shaping who Lotte is or will be. What is shaping Lotte is the love and support and security, you and your wife provide Lotte.

Bear
 
The feeling is one of uneasiness... What makes the difference. And also, there's no way of finding out.
But, there's a huge difference between the schools. And the deaf school also has hearing children. In fact, the deaf/hoh group is really small.
And sure, knowing sign is great.. question is, would it have interfered with learning Dutch and Norwegian.

We had a strong feeling that language development was held back by being in a speech AND sign environment. And looking at her now, we can see that being in a speech-environment is really working for her. She's doing great....

About the teacher with the distorted voice.... Lotte was shy with her, and did not understand her. She didn't reject her. Just didn't make the connection like with the other teacher.
And lack of sign has to do with that. Is it a pitty...??? At some level it is. At another level, it is a small negative in a huge sea of positive..
It's like life...

Sign does not interfere with the acquisition of spoken language, and in fact, has been found in numerous studies to actually facillitate the learning of spoken lagnauge. Your fears that sign would interefere with Lotte's ability to learn spoken Dutch and Norwegian really are unfounded. Alas, they are the same fears that many hearing parents of deaf children have had, however unfounded they may be.
 
Cloggy,

Glad to hear Lotte is doing so well.

In response to your question on whether it was a negative or not. I would say no.

If Lotte is doing extremely well, and loves the direction you have taken with her, nothing you can or will do will be a negative for her.

I understand something many posters do not. I do understand that you are not *closed* to having sign in Lotte's life. When Lotte is ready she will sign.

BUT, I also understand where the other posters are coming from. Kids do pick up on their parents wants. It may be that you are unconciensely *sp?* conveying the message to Lotte, that speech is what you want her to do and not sign.

However, I see that Lotte is a happy child. CI or not, that little girl is happy and that is all that matters. Every picture of Lotte you have posted that I have seen, she is smiling and happy.

The CI did not do that for her Cloggy, you and your wife did that. Only a well loved child who is secure in her surroundings is that happy.

Unfortunately Cloggy, not all kids have parents like you, who does truly want the best for their children. And that is where alot of us are concerned with this CI route. I'm not saying any posters here are like that, but you have to admit there are parents who are.

Lotte, is definitely gonna grow up in a very positive enviroment. So, unless Lotte viewed that encounter as a negative for her, then I would say no it wasn't a negative.

An adult can handle rejection. Some children simply shy away from adult because they sense something they don't like. I would not put this experience down to simply because the teacher had a distorted voice. It could have been something totally different.

Sometimes even I, meet people I instantly shy away from or do not like even. There is no reason for me to do so, but something inside tells me to. I learned to follow that as it is usually right.

Cloggy, keep up the wonderful *im not gonna say work* but parenting you do with Lotte. I say that because the CI is not shaping who Lotte is or will be. What is shaping Lotte is the love and support and security, you and your wife provide Lotte.

Bear

That was really nicely put Bear.
 
Just out of curiousity's sake, does Lotte also speak English? I am just purely curious. I find it interesting that she can speak 2 languages, which is pretty cool.
 
BUT, I also understand where the other posters are coming from. Kids do pick up on their parents wants. It may be that you are unconciensely *sp?* conveying the message to Lotte, that speech is what you want her to do and not sign.

(unconsciously)

I can, from my own experience, tell that even if the parent wants the child to speak the child eventually will do as the child wishes to.
If the child finds it easier to sign, or want to sign it will tend to sign.
This can be said for majority of those here who grew up "oral", ended up signing - isn't it?


Right now, after implantation (and clear indication that Lotte is benefiting MORE from her CI while in hearing world only), it's important to remember that right now she needs optimal enviroment for developing good hearing and speech. otherwise, what's the point of CI? there will be time for SL later on.

Fuzzy
 
(unconsciously)

I can, from my own experience, tell that even if the parent wants the child to speak the child eventually will do as the child wishes to.
If the child finds it easier to sign, or want to sign it will tend to sign.
This can be said for majority of those here who grew up "oral", ended up signing - isn't it?


Right now, after implantation (and clear indication that Lotte is benefiting MORE from her CI while in hearing world only), it's important to remember that right now she needs optimal enviroment for developing good hearing and speech. otherwise, what's the point of CI? there will be time for SL later on.

Fuzzy

Fuzzy, I did say that if Lotte indicates at a later time that Cloggy would be the type of parent to learn signs again and use them.

I did not say that she should not be in the hearing world or speak at all.

The CI is meant for hearing things, most people are *adding* the speech to it. That is fine and I fully understand why. I do not fight against aquiring speech.

I speak and sign both. To me, both are benefit to have, IF it is attainable.

I applaud Cloggy as a parent. I feel he is a very caring, involved parent. My post to Cloggy had very little to do with the CI itself. In fact my whole post to Cloggy was telling him that he was doing everything possible for Lotte.

But Fuzzy, not every parent is like Cloggy. Not every parent has the child's best interests at heart. Cloggy and his wife, work overtime making sure Lotte benefits both without and with her CI. Not every parent does that. It's sad but very true.

Cloggy, learned to sign for Lotte before she got her CI. That tells me he is very willing to do whatever needs to be done for his daughter.

BTW thank you for the spelling correction.

Unfortunately, there are parents that will and do implant, simply because they cannot admit their child is deaf. To them that is an imperfect child. A parent like them cannot have a child who is less than whole.

There are parents that implant to make the child *hearing* to fit in their world. What's wrong with that parent stepping into the child's world?

Cloggy, did step into Lotte's world. He and his wife as I understand it, both learned signs, checked out a deaf school, did their research, looked for deaf communities.

That is an ideal parent of a deaf child. Unfortunately, not every child is as lucky as Lotte. Not every child both past and present had parents that cared that much.

I did not intend to imply that Cloggy was *forcing* Lotte into an oral-only enviroment. Why would he, when he took the time to learn signs in the first place? I only meant to imply, that its possible, that Lotte could be picking up unintentional *vibes* that Cloggy would rather she talked than sign. Most kids can sense that. So it would be natural for Lotte to stop signing and prefer the oral only approach, because those are the vibes.

BUT, at the same time, ( I guess I should have clarified this), I believe that Cloggy may be right and that Lotte does prefer to speak than to sign.

I know that even though I can speak, there are times, when I long to have a group of deafies around me, so I dont have to speak. So it all depends on the individual.
 
Fuzzy, I did say that if Lotte indicates at a later time that Cloggy would be the type of parent to learn signs again and use them.

I did not say that she should not be in the hearing world or speak at all.

The CI is meant for hearing things, most people are *adding* the speech to it. That is fine and I fully understand why. I do not fight against aquiring speech.

I speak and sign both. To me, both are benefit to have, IF it is attainable.

I applaud Cloggy as a parent. I feel he is a very caring, involved parent. My post to Cloggy had very little to do with the CI itself. In fact my whole post to Cloggy was telling him that he was doing everything possible for Lotte.

But Fuzzy, not every parent is like Cloggy. Not every parent has the child's best interests at heart. Cloggy and his wife, work overtime making sure Lotte benefits both without and with her CI. Not every parent does that. It's sad but very true.

Cloggy, learned to sign for Lotte before she got her CI. That tells me he is very willing to do whatever needs to be done for his daughter.

BTW thank you for the spelling correction.

Unfortunately, there are parents that will and do implant, simply because they cannot admit their child is deaf. To them that is an imperfect child. A parent like them cannot have a child who is less than whole.

There are parents that implant to make the child *hearing* to fit in their world. What's wrong with that parent stepping into the child's world?

Cloggy, did step into Lotte's world. He and his wife as I understand it, both learned signs, checked out a deaf school, did their research, looked for deaf communities.

That is an ideal parent of a deaf child. Unfortunately, not every child is as lucky as Lotte. Not every child both past and present had parents that cared that much.

I did not intend to imply that Cloggy was *forcing* Lotte into an oral-only enviroment. Why would he, when he took the time to learn signs in the first place? I only meant to imply, that its possible, that Lotte could be picking up unintentional *vibes* that Cloggy would rather she talked than sign. Most kids can sense that. So it would be natural for Lotte to stop signing and prefer the oral only approach, because those are the vibes.

BUT, at the same time, ( I guess I should have clarified this), I believe that Cloggy may be right and that Lotte does prefer to speak than to sign.

I know that even though I can speak, there are times, when I long to have a group of deafies around me, so I dont have to speak. So it all depends on the individual.


:gpost:

I have seen the end results of parents who have the attitude of wanting their child to be perfect and denying the fact that their child is deaf. It is unfortunate.


Lotte is cute. :)
 
:gpost:

I have seen the end results of parents who have the attitude of wanting their child to be perfect and denying the fact that their child is deaf. It is unfortunate.


Lotte is cute. :)

Unfortunlately yes...
 
Sign does not interfere with the acquisition of spoken language, and in fact, has been found in numerous studies to actually facillitate the learning of spoken lagnauge. Your fears that sign would interefere with Lotte's ability to learn spoken Dutch and Norwegian really are unfounded. Alas, they are the same fears that many hearing parents of deaf children have had, however unfounded they may be.
Actually, a new study in Norway has concluded that when learning speech is the goal, sign together with speech should be avoided......
 
Just out of curiousity's sake, does Lotte also speak English? I am just purely curious. I find it interesting that she can speak 2 languages, which is pretty cool.
Nope. The English friends we have speak Norwegian with our children.
She will learn english when she goes to school. They start learning english when they are about 7 years old.
I'm sure she will not have any problems with it.
 
Thanks Bear for that post!

You are right. Lotte is doing very well. And we, as parents are engaged.

Still, the problem to me is that it sometimes looks as if we are the exceptions. I do not feel that way. From what I see around me, we are just the norm.
But, that might be because of the support-system we have around us. In a society like USA, with poorer health-insurance, possibilities might be limited...
I don't know.
Let's put it like this..
We are not special. We are doing what most parents will do for their child. I can imagine that to the Deaf-world, "we" are not really visible. Only where problems arise, the Deaf world will put their focus. The "norm" remains hidden withing the rest of the non-deaf society..
 
I am glad it works okay for u and your daughter but I am still concern about her not accept who she is and not be with her own kind, deaf kids. And I hope u provide her with an interpter in her regular class.
 
I am glad it works okay for u and your daughter but I am still concern about her not accept who she is and not be with her own kind, deaf kids. And I hope u provide her with an interpter in her regular class.
Why would she not accept who she is? She is fully aware who she is, there's nothing to accept...
And "her own kind - deaf kids".... that's a misconception. She will find her peers. That will probably be hearing children. What's wrong with that..
How is she going to relate to a deaf child that cannot hear.? What do they have in common?
 
Actually, a new study in Norway has concluded that when learning speech is the goal, sign together with speech should be avoided......

Could you post a link on that.? I would find it intersting to read this particualr research, as it is contradictory to the majority of research done inthe past in regard to language acquisisiton and optimal environments for acadmenic achievement. Or, if you don't have a link, could you provide the citation in order that I can locate said research?
 
That conclusion is consistent with the Hopkins research I posted last week (perhaps on another thread, I don't remember)
Could you post a link on that.? I would find it intersting to read this particualr research, as it is contradictory to the majority of research done inthe past in regard to language acquisisiton and optimal environments for acadmenic achievement. Or, if you don't have a link, could you provide the citation in order that I can locate said research?
 
Could you post a link on that.? I would find it intersting to read this particualr research, as it is contradictory to the majority of research done inthe past in regard to language acquisisiton and optimal environments for acadmenic achievement. Or, if you don't have a link, could you provide the citation in order that I can locate said research?
It is...
I like you asking for the research.. I recall asking you the same thing... without any results...
Again.. different rules for Jillio... You don't need to show anything... we have to jump for you..???

Anyway, here it is. Written by a deaf student as a matter of fact....
Author: Thorstensen, Bente
Title: Hørselshemmede barn: talespråk eller tegnspråk : både/og eller enten/eller? : en teoretisk studie om forholdet mellom hørsel og fonologiskeevner - konsekvenser for opplæringen av barn med cochleaimplantat
City: Oslo
Accesion number: 061413240
Hovedoppgave i pedagogikk - Universitetet i Oslo, 2006

But Jillio....
Have you managed to find any articles that you can share, as in - everyone can read them - showing the other view...????
 
I only meant to imply, that its possible, that Lotte could be picking up unintentional *vibes* that Cloggy would rather she talked than sign. Most kids can sense that. So it would be natural for Lotte to stop signing and prefer the oral only approach, because those are the vibes.

I was simply saying than like in the case of lefhandedness, even if the parent will openly encourage the chidl to use a right hand only, a dominant one will prevail anyway.

Fuzzy
 
It is...
I like you asking for the research.. I recall asking you the same thing... without any results...
Again.. different rules for Jillio... You don't need to show anything... we have to jump for you..???

Anyway, here it is. Written by a deaf student as a matter of fact....


But Jillio....
Have you managed to find any articles that you can share, as in - everyone can read them - showing the other view...????

And the answer to your question would be yes, and in fact, I have shared such in several past posts. I will read whay you have supplied and get back to you. Is there a problem with providing a citation, cloggy? I simply asked politely in order that I might have ther study in order to evaluate it against studies that claim the opposite.
 
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