Education/IEP/Literacy

vallee said:
that is placing the child in the most restricted environment not the LRE. Our school system has very rigid requirements for LRE. That is why IQ test are given in verbal and nonverbal according to the child. We recieved a verbal IQ test on a child with Autism at 51 and we do not test a nonverbal child with a verbal test. The nonverbal tested at an 85.

I am not saying it does not happen. Many years ago, my mom was told to place me in a MR classroom. My mother refused and fought to have mainstream placement. Some parents do not know they can question the placement, that is why it is up to the IEP team to work in the best interest of the child. That is what I do.

Just a remainder, I teach full inclusion 5th grade. My students ranging from LD to MR to Autism are mainstreamed within 2 classrooms. They are pulled in small groups with peers for individualized rigor and relevance instruction. Our school contains 4 small group settings - Advanced, Average, Intervention, and At Risk/Special Education. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade are placed in groups according to data from several achievement testing and indicator test as well as classroom observation. We do this 3 times a day - Language Arts, Math, and Science/Social Studies. The rest of the day they are in a "regular classroom with a regular education teacher and me. I teach the at risk/special education students even if they are not special education. Our program is unique, but our success rate is well above the average. More importantly we improve self-esteem and reading fluency. Our program is so unique that this year we have had visits from other schools in hopes to set up a program like ours. Oh, groups are changed each semester to ensure that children academic needs are met. Also I have several special education children that go to the average or intervention groups instead of mine. I had one in the advance group with an aide for reading. That is what I do to ensure that there is more success than failure.
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And that sounds like a wonderful program for students with special ed needs. But deaf students, unless they have a dual diagnosis, do not need special education services. They need communication services that allow them full access to the curriculum. The problem for deaf students is not intellectual capacity. The problem is an environment that impedes communication.
 
vallee said:
that is placing the child in the most restricted environment not the LRE. Our school system has very rigid requirements for LRE. That is why IQ test are given in verbal and nonverbal according to the child. We recieved a verbal IQ test on a child with Autism at 51 and we do not test a nonverbal child with a verbal test. The nonverbal tested at an 85.

I am not saying it does not happen. Many years ago, my mom was told to place me in a MR classroom. My mother refused and fought to have mainstream placement. Some parents do not know they can question the placement, that is why it is up to the IEP team to work in the best interest of the child. That is what I do.

Just a remainder, I teach full inclusion 5th grade. My students ranging from LD to MR to Autism are mainstreamed within 2 classrooms. They are pulled in small groups with peers for individualized rigor and relevance instruction. Our school contains 4 small group settings - Advanced, Average, Intervention, and At Risk/Special Education. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade are placed in groups according to data from several achievement testing and indicator test as well as classroom observation. We do this 3 times a day - Language Arts, Math, and Science/Social Studies. The rest of the day they are in a "regular classroom with a regular education teacher and me. I teach the at risk/special education students even if they are not special education. Our program is unique, but our success rate is well above the average. More importantly we improve self-esteem and reading fluency. Our program is so unique that this year we have had visits from other schools in hopes to set up a program like ours. Oh, groups are changed each semester to ensure that children academic needs are met. Also I have several special education children that go to the average or intervention groups instead of mine. I had one in the advance group with an aide for reading. That is what I do to ensure that there is more success than failure.
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I am glad that u are doing that. I would think by now all schools would do better when it comes to mainstreaming than 20 years ago but from the stories I am hearing from the parents of the students who get transferred is showing me that in some programs, not much has improved. I work in public schools during the summer and I learn a lot about what really goes on out there in the Maryland public schools. Some counties have awesome programs while others just make my jaw drop in disbelief.
Yea, it makes me mad when we get children who cant read nor write at 8 or 9 years old cuz the teachers at their local schools didnt know how to teach them. If they dont know what to do, where are the teachers who has training in Deaf education? Some of their replies were that they thought if deaf children who have no oral skills were mentally retarded. Oh my!!! That frightens me!

Not only it frightens me, it makes me want to kick something out of frustration. Come on...this is 2008, not 1958.
 
jillio said:
And that sounds like a wonderful program for students with special ed needs. But deaf students, unless they have a dual diagnosis, do not need special education services. They need communication services that allow them full access to the curriculum. The problem for deaf students is not intellectual capacity. The problem is an environment that impedes communication.
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we do have HOH children in our school being serviced by this program. You are right they are not special education except for speech therapy if needed. Our deaf children are assisted to a Deaf Education teacher at one of three schools. They also benefit for inclusion classrooms. It is also a LRE program.

I do have two HOH students that I work with, one in math and the other in Language Arts.
 
shel90 said:
I am glad that u are doing that. I would think by now all schools would do better when it comes to mainstreaming than 20 years ago but from the stories I am hearing from the parents of the students who get transferred is showing me that in some programs, not much has improved. I work in public schools during the summer and I learn a lot about what really goes on out there in the Maryland public schools. Some counties have awesome programs while others just make my jaw drop in disbelief.
Yea, it makes me mad when we get children who cant read nor write at 8 or 9 years old cuz the teachers at their local schools didnt know how to teach them. If they dont know what to do, where are the teachers who has training in Deaf education? Some of their replies were that they thought if deaf children who have no oral skills were mentally retarded. Oh my!!! That frightens me!

Not only it frightens me, it makes me want to kick something out of frustration. Come on...this is 2008, not 1958.
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We are doing a separate program called Language! next year. The data is great. It really teaches the children to read, write, spell, and learn. They use it in Middle and High school. I was asked to pilot the elementary at my school. This is the third year that it is being used for elementary. It is a ninty minute block. I already have 12 that qualify 3rd-5th.

Your right it is 2008...not 1970's or 80's.
 
vallee said:
we do have HOH children in our school being serviced by this program. You are right they are not special education except for speech therapy if needed. Our deaf children are assisted to a Deaf Education teacher at one of three schools. They also benefit for inclusion classrooms. It is also a LRE program.

I do have two HOH students that I work with, one in math and the other in Language Arts.
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Are these hoh students dually diagnosed? Or are they receiving remedial services under the auspices of special ed? Arethey oral only? Is the Deaf Ed teacher itinerant between the 3 schools? What services to they receive in inclusion, and what subjects are included for inclusion? I have a problem with the way LRE is determined in the vast majority of cases. LRE is predominantly decided under the mistaken belief that the mainstream is always the LRE. Far too often, mainstream placement, particulary when communication issues are the heart of the matter, is decidedly more restrictive.
 
jillio said:
Are these hoh students dually diagnosed? Or are they receiving remedial services under the auspices of special ed? Arethey oral only? Is the Deaf Ed teacher itinerant between the 3 schools? What services to they receive in inclusion, and what subjects are included for inclusion? I have a problem with the way LRE is determined in the vast majority of cases. LRE is predominantly decided under the mistaken belief that the mainstream is always the LRE. Far too often, mainstream placement, particulary when communication issues are the heart of the matter, is decidedly more restrictive.
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let me see if I can answer the questions:
1. The two I work with are not receiving special education services. Yes, they are oral only. I work with them since there data indicates that they would benefit from my at risk group. One of the students should be out of my group, but parents requested that she stay with me for the year in my math group. She is doing grade level work and very successful. I increase the rigor of her assignments.
2. The Deaf Ed teacher is in that school. We have 3 Deaf Ed teachers in elementary. She has her own classroom. I am not sure of the number of deaf ed in middle and high school. Our system benefits from Vanderbilt deaf ed program.
3. LRE should be based on individual children. Mainstream is not always the LRE. I use to teach CDC and CDC was the LRE for many children. It depends on schools and regulations. Also there are many deaf/HOH children who do not need IEPs and a 504 is enough for accommodations. Even an educational plan is enough. It depends on the child, why provide services when the child is successful without. As long as the child is monitored and intervention services are available if the child's data is showing at risk. We progress monitor twice a month to ensure a child is making progress. Also we have weekly guidance classes with individual assistance from our guidance teacher, who is also HOH. This is for all children.
 
vallee said:
let me see if I can answer the questions:
1. The two I work with are not receiving special education services. Yes, they are oral only. I work with them since there data indicates that they would benefit from my at risk group. One of the students should be out of my group, but parents requested that she stay with me for the year in my math group. She is doing grade level work and very successful. I increase the rigor of her assignments.
2. The Deaf Ed teacher is in that school. We have 3 Deaf Ed teachers in elementary. She has her own classroom. I am not sure of the number of deaf ed in middle and high school. Our system benefits from Vanderbilt deaf ed program.
3. LRE should be based on individual children. Mainstream is not always the LRE. I use to teach CDC and CDC was the LRE for many children. It depends on schools and regulations. Also there are many deaf/HOH children who do not need IEPs and a 504 is enough for accommodations. Even an educational plan is enough. It depends on the child, why provide services when the child is successful without. As long as the child is monitored and intervention services are available if the child's data is showing at risk. We progress monitor twice a month to ensure a child is making progress. Also we have weekly guidance classes with individual assistance from our guidance teacher, who is also HOH. This is for all children.
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When you say "at risk", do you mean at risk for becoming delayed?

I agree LRE should be based on individual children. The problem is, it quite often is not. Especially in the case of the deaf/hoh child.

Any child in a public school system that is deaf/hoh should have an IEP, even if it only states that monitoring will be done every six months. It is important to have an IEP in place to faccilitate the addition of services if it is deemed necessary, as well as insuring that services are provided as recommended. Any parent who does not insist on an IEP is risking their ability to challenge the school system should services not be adequate. It is a legal protection for the child to have the IEP. Likewise, without the IEP, parents do not have a legal right for input regarding services provided. I would never reccommend that a parent place a deaf/hoh child in the mainstream without benefit of an IEP, even if the only service being provided is periodic assessment, or a classroom accommodation as simple as preferential seating. To do so is to risk their child's right to due process and an appropriate education.

When you say that your system benefits from the Vanderbilt deaf ed program, is that in the form of placement of student teachers?

Thanks for answering the questions.
 
jillio said:
When you say "at risk", do you mean at risk for becoming delayed?

Yes

I agree LRE should be based on individual children. The problem is, it quite often is not. Especially in the case of the deaf/hoh child.

Any child in a public school system that is deaf/hoh should have an IEP, even if it only states that monitoring will be done every six months. It is important to have an IEP in place to faccilitate the addition of services if it is deemed necessary, as well as insuring that services are provided as recommended. Any parent who does not insist on an IEP is risking their ability to challenge the school system should services not be adequate. It is a legal protection for the child to have the IEP. Likewise, without the IEP, parents do not have a legal right for input regarding services provided. I would never reccommend that a parent place a deaf/hoh child in the mainstream without benefit of an IEP, even if the only service being provided is periodic assessment, or a classroom accommodation as simple as preferential seating. To do so is to risk their child's right to due process and an appropriate education.

When you say that your system benefits from the Vanderbilt deaf ed program, is that in the form of placement of student teachers?

Just that there a deaf education program locally so our vacanty for teachers is met.
Thanks for answering the questions.
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if a child does not qualify for an IEP, they can be placed under a 504 plan. Here is the best definition I found if someone does not know what a 504 plan is. What Is a 504 Plan?

Just because a child is HOH/deaf does not mean they just qualify for an IEP. Here is another good web site on what is an IEP? What is an IEP

Special education is very limited in what children qualify for services. I tell parents to request a 504 plan if the child does not meet the requirements. Any good schools monitor regardless of IEP or 504. I do agree that there should be some due process and services available for HOH/deaf children.
 
vallee said:
if a child does not qualify for an IEP, they can be placed under a 504 plan. Here is the best definition I found if someone does not know what a 504 plan is. What Is a 504 Plan?

Just because a child is HOH/deaf does not mean they just qualify for an IEP. Here is another good web site on what is an IEP? What is an IEP

Special education is very limited in what children qualify for services. I tell parents to request a 504 plan if the child does not meet the requirements. Any good schools monitor regardless of IEP or 504. I do agree that there should be some due process and services available for HOH/deaf children.
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I know what a 504 plan is. Any child that can be shown through audiological assessment to have a hearing loss that in any way impedes communication qualifies for an IEP. Perhaps individual schools do not always apply them as such, but an IEP is a guarantee for any student receiving any educational accommodation based on disability, as mandated under the ADA.

If a student is at risk for becoming delayed, the thing to do is to address the issues creating the risk so that it does not occur. In the case of the deaf/hoh student, this would mean providing those communication services that permit full access to the curriculum.
 
vallee said:
jillio said:
I know what a 504 plan is. QUOTE]

Not everyone knows what a 504 is! There are others reading these posting.
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Vallee,

You are so right, just yesterday at the party we were at, one of the parents did not know what a 504 was and my wife was explaining it to her. I am going to forward your definitions to her as well.

Thanks!
Rick
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vallee said:
jillio said:
I know what a 504 plan is. QUOTE]

Not everyone knows what a 504 is! There are others reading these posting.
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The whole point is, a 504 plan provides for inclusion only, and does not address the actual educational needs of the student. To inlcude without provision for the means that will make that inclusion successful is not to the benefit of the student. That is why a parent shoud never settle for a 504 plan alone. And school systems should never lead a parent to believe that they are complying with federal education laws in offering a 504 plan.
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jillio said:
vallee said:
The whole point is, a 504 plan provides for inclusion only, and does not address the actual educational needs of the student. To inlcude without provision for the means that will make that inclusion successful is not to the benefit of the student. That is why a parent shoud never settle for a 504 plan alone. And school systems should never lead a parent to believe that they are complying with federal education laws in offering a 504 plan.
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Hands and Voices has an interesting answer. Hands & Voices :: Automatic Eligibility

A 504 plan is not always the answer to evey child. School systems are limited by federal regulations on special education.

The Federal Education Law (IDEA -- originally passed in 1975) does not state that a disabling condition automatically qualifies a student for special education services. It does say that a disability must have an "adverse effect" on the child's ability to receive "reasonable educational benefit" in order for that child to be eligible for special education/an IEP. The state is then charged with the responsibility of defining what "adverse effect" means. from Hands and Voices website
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vallee said:
jillio said:
Hands and Voices has an interesting answer. Hands & Voices :: Automatic Eligibility

A 504 plan is not always the answer to evey child. School systems are limited by federal regulations on special education.

The Federal Education Law (IDEA -- originally passed in 1975) does not state that a disabling condition automatically qualifies a student for special education services. It does say that a disability must have an "adverse effect" on the child's ability to receive "reasonable educational benefit" in order for that child to be eligible for special education/an IEP. The state is then charged with the responsibility of defining what "adverse effect" means. from Hands and Voices website
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Agreed. But we are talking specifically about deaf/hoh children. A disabling condition that affects the child's ability to access the curriculum most certainly qualifies that child for an IEP, even if it is something as simple as preferential seating. Without an IEP, the school system does not have to provide any accommodation. A 504 plan simply madates that child's right to be educated in the mainstream. Section 504 is applicable to a student who has impaired mobility, but no other concomittant disability that reduced their ability to access the curriculum, for an example. It is not applicable to a student with a learning disability, a communication disorder that impedes the ability to access the curriculum as delivered without accommodation in a mainstream classroom, or a child with visual impairment that prevents access to the curriculum. Nor is it applicable to students with developmental delays, or MR. Keep in mind that the ADA supercedes IDEA in guaranteeing equal access.
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Any child in a public school system that is deaf/hoh should have an IEP, even if it only states that monitoring will be done every six months. .[/QUOTE]

Not every child who is in public school needs or requires an IEP. My 25 yo never had an IEP. She never needed an IEP. She is hoh. She managed to graduate with an AA two weeks before she graduated with her hs class.

Having a sister 6 yrs younger then her who does have an IEP we were very aware of the schools requirements to provide services if needed. In her case (the 25 yo) they weren't needed.
 
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jag said:
Any child in a public school system that is deaf/hoh should have an IEP, even if it only states that monitoring will be done every six months. .
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Not every child who is in public school needs or requires an IEP. My 25 yo never had an IEP. She never needed an IEP. She is hoh. She managed to graduate with an AA two weeks before she graduated with her hs class.

Having a sister 6 yrs younger then her who does have an IEP we were very aware of the schools requirements to provide services if needed. In her case (the 25 yo) they weren't needed.[/QUOTE]

And to refuse an IEP for your child is certainly your option as a parent. However, I would still reccommend it for any parent of a deaf/hoh child.
 
Mod's note: posts are from other thread.
 
my mom have 5 kids, two are deaf, one with a learning disability.. She did not work with us. My dad is an alcoholic.

So my grammars is pretty bad because I didn't get enough support from home or school. I'll say, if the parents is not going to help much, then put the kids to a deaf class.. because the deaf is not going to get anywhere far learning by himself/herself.
 
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