Education/IEP/Literacy

[shel90]

I did not say that parental involvement involved luck. I said that he was one of the lucky ones who survived the mainstream as well as he did. There are numeorus students who have just as much parental involvement who are unable to make it in the mainstream.

and yet people still continue to ignore this issue. I just have the feeling that as long as there are some successes in the mainstream, everything is all good. There is something seriously wrong with the picture. However, I am one of the few who wont ever ignore that fact and actually working with those kids on a daily basis that the mainstreamed programs failed.

 

[jillio]

and yet people still continue to ignore this issue. I just have the feeling that as long as there are some successes in the mainstream, everything is all good. There is something seriously wrong with the picture. However, I am one of the few who wont ever ignore that fact and actually working with those kids on a daily basis that the mainstreamed programs failed.

That is exactly why I said that Bottessini was one of the lucky ones. While parental involvement is not a matter of luck, unless of course, you consider the fact that some kids are born to parents who are involved, and some aren't, and there is no rhyme or reason to that. However, success requires a number of things being present, parental involvement being only one of them. There is also teacher competence, the nature of the school district, and personality variable of both the deaf child and the hearing peers with whom they attend school. For everything to come together at one time and in one place is indeed lucky. And all too rare.

 

[vallee]

and yet people still continue to ignore this issue. I just have the feeling that as long as there are some successes in the mainstream, everything is all good. There is something seriously wrong with the picture. However, I am one of the few who wont ever ignore that fact and actually working with those kids on a daily basis that the mainstreamed programs failed.

So all mainstream programs fail??
I work with special education children in mainstream programs and while I see success and failure with children. I work daily to improve the success for the children, not blame. There are many factors involve in any educational setting and programs.

half full - half empty
mainstream - deaf education
each has its own failures and successes.

 

[shel90]

So all mainstream programs fail??
I work with special education children in mainstream programs and while I see success and failure with children. I work daily to improve the success for the children, not blame. There are many factors involve in any educational setting and programs.

half full - half empty
mainstream - deaf education
each has its own failures and successes.

I meant to say that the mainstreamed failed them. I didnt say "all".

 

[jillio]

So all mainstream programs fail??
I work with special education children in mainstream programs and while I see success and failure with children. I work daily to improve the success for the children, not blame. There are many factors involve in any educational setting and programs.

half full - half empty
mainstream - deaf education
each has its own failures and successes.

I wouldhave to say that Shel works daily to overcome the lags created in the mainstream. Therefore, she works daily toimprove their successes, as well. In fact, what you don't seem to realize is that the first success many of these children have is when they are removed from the mainstream into an environment that can truly address their needs.

That isn't to say that all mainsteam programs fail. It is to say that the mainstream, as it is set up today, fails numerous children.

 

[shel90]

I wouldhave to say that Shel works daily to overcome the lags created in the mainstream. Therefore, she works daily toimprove their successes, as well. In fact, what you don't seem to realize is that the first success many of these children have is when they are removed from the mainstream into an environment that can truly address their needs.

That isn't to say that all mainsteam programs fail. It is to say that the mainstream, as it is set up today, fails numerous children.

Thank u...I just constantly see the reality and I admit sometimes it makes me angry. Of course, it is not hard to be angry when u get a student who is soooooo bright but suffered because she was placed in a mental retardation classroom all day simply because she had no oral skills and relied on ASL. Yes, it pisses me off especially nowadays..this is not the 1950s anymore! Now, this girl is reading 1 grade below her age appropriate level which is awesome considering when 3 years ago, she couldnt read at all!! She jumped like 3 or 4 reading levels in one year. Very very bright girl. Thank god her mind wasnt wasted.

That is just one example..

also, dont forget that deaf program in that one public school where they placed 13 kids from kindergarten to 8th grade in one class for language arts. That was the WORST!

 

[jillio]

Thank u...I just constantly see the reality and I admit sometimes it makes me angry. Of course, it is not hard to be angry when u get a student who is soooooo bright but suffered because she was placed in a mental retardation classroom all day simply because she had no oral skills and relied on ASL. Yes, it pisses me off especially nowadays..this is not the 1950s anymore! Now, this girl is reading 1 grade below her age appropriate level which is awesome considering when 3 years ago, she couldnt read at all!! She jumped like 3 or 4 reading levels in one year. Very very bright girl. Thank god her mind wasnt wasted.

That is just one example..

also, dont forget that deaf program in that one public school where they placed 13 kids from kindergarten to 8th grade in one class for language arts. That was the WORST!

I know exactly what you mean. The first accommodation that was offered to my kid was placement in a special ed classroom. I told them he doesn't need to be in a special ed classroom, he is not learning disabled ...he's deaf!

 

[rick48]

Parental involvement does not involve luck! Hard work, love, effort, and time, not luck.

Vallee,

You are so right and there are parents who are not willing to engage in that hard work, love, effort and time.

Happy mother's day!
Rick

 

[rick48]

So all mainstream programs fail??
I work with special education children in mainstream programs and while I see success and failure with children. I work daily to improve the success for the children, not blame. There are many factors involve in any educational setting and programs.

half full - half empty
mainstream - deaf education
each has its own failures and successes.

Vallee,

You sound just like my wife with her Special Ed kids. She is more concerned with providing an environment in which her students can succeed than with looking for scape goats to place blame.

To generalize that children who could not succeed in the mainstream were failed by the mainstream program is a simplistic statement that is devoid of acknowledging the various factors involved in a child's performance in any educational program.

Our friends' daughter, whom we have known since she was a toddler, is graduating from a mainstream college this week, first in her college and 10th in the entire graduating class. She will be teaching next fall in the mainstream. Kudos to her and to her parents!
Rick

 

[jillio]

Like it has been stated over and over and over again. There are always individual successes. Those individual successes, however, do nothing to improve the situation for those that are underserved. One success and 10 less than successful still remains a system that is less than effective for the majority.

BTW, unless a child has a comorbid learning disability or physical disability, SpecEd should not be an option for placement for deaf children.

 

[vallee]

Like it has been stated over and over and over again. There are always individual successes. Those individual successes, however, do nothing to improve the situation for those that are underserved. One success and 10 less than successful still remains a system that is less than effective for the majority.

BTW, unless a child has a comorbid learning disability or physical disability, SpecEd should not be an option for placement for deaf children.

if there are individual success then there is individual failure! So I disagree with blaming the mainstream education program. Is a special education teacher, I do everything I can to provide the appropriate education environment and academics for my students.

 

[vallee]

Vallee,

You sound just like my wife with her Special Ed kids. She is more concerned with providing an environment in which her students can succeed than with looking for scape goats to place blame.

To generalize that children who could not succeed in the mainstream were failed by the mainstream program is a simplistic statement that is devoid of acknowledging the various factors involved in a child's performance in any educational program.

Our friends' daughter, whom we have known since she was a toddler, is graduating from a mainstream college this week, first in her college and 10th in the entire graduating class. She will be teaching next fall in the mainstream. Kudos to her and to her parents!
Rick

Your right.

There are so many factors involve in an academic environment that effects individual students. There are factors that teachers might not know about.

 

[rick48]

Your right.

There are so many factors involve in an academic environment that effects individual students. There are factors that teachers might not know about.

And there are often factors which the teachers cannot control.

Happy Mother's Day to you and to all!
Rick

 

[jillio]

And there are often factors which the teachers cannot control.

Happy Mother's Day to you and to all!
Rick

Absolutely, there are factors which teachers cannot control. I never meant to imply that there aren't. Too many adminsitrators that never did a day in the trenches, for one.

 

[jillio]

if there are individual success then there is individual failure! So I disagree with blaming the mainstream education program. Is a special education teacher, I do everything I can to provide the appropriate education environment and academics for my students.

The point is, the mainstream is not serving the needs of the majority, despite the individual successes. Likewise, success is a very subjective measurement.

I don't think anyone said that you were not doing your best to serve your students. However, you, as an individual teacher, cannot singularly overcome the problems with mainstreaming as a policy and a practice. Problems exist. That is a fact that cannot be denied.

 

[shel90]

if there are individual success then there is individual failure! So I disagree with blaming the mainstream education program. Is a special education teacher, I do everything I can to provide the appropriate education environment and academics for my students.

So is it ok to place a bright deaf child with no oral skills in a class with children who have moderate to severe mental retardation? If she had failed, then the mainstreamed school shouldnt get the blame?

My point is that I cant believe then even in today's time, that still happens and yes, it makes me angry.

 

[jillio]

So is it ok to place a bright deaf child with no oral skills in a class with children who have moderate to severe mental retardation? If she had failed, then the mainstreamed school shouldnt get the blame?

My point is that I cant believe then even in today's time, that still happens and yes, it makes me angry.

The sad fact of the matter it does happen. To refuse to recognize that only contributes to the problem.

 

[shel90]

The sad fact of the matter it does happen. To refuse to recognize that only contributes to the problem.

I cant just sit back as say , "oooh it is ok that this happens and let's see what we can do to correct the problem." Nope, I aint doing it. That would make me devoid of feelings.

 

[jillio]

I cant just sit back as say , "oooh it is ok that this happens and let's see what we can do to correct the problem." Nope, I aint doing it. That would make me devoid of feelings.

And it is good to know that there are still those teachers out there that have taken off the rosy colored glasses, see and admit to the problems, and are ethical enough to address them.

 

[vallee]

So is it ok to place a bright deaf child with no oral skills in a class with children who have moderate to severe mental retardation? If she had failed, then the mainstreamed school shouldnt get the blame?

My point is that I cant believe then even in today's time, that still happens and yes, it makes me angry.

that is placing the child in the most restricted environment not the LRE. Our school system has very rigid requirements for LRE. That is why IQ test are given in verbal and nonverbal according to the child. We recieved a verbal IQ test on a child with Autism at 51 and we do not test a nonverbal child with a verbal test. The nonverbal tested at an 85.

I am not saying it does not happen. Many years ago, my mom was told to place me in a MR classroom. My mother refused and fought to have mainstream placement. Some parents do not know they can question the placement, that is why it is up to the IEP team to work in the best interest of the child. That is what I do.

Just a remainder, I teach full inclusion 5th grade. My students ranging from LD to MR to Autism are mainstreamed within 2 classrooms. They are pulled in small groups with peers for individualized rigor and relevance instruction. Our school contains 4 small group settings - Advanced, Average, Intervention, and At Risk/Special Education. The 3rd, 4th, and 5th grade are placed in groups according to data from several achievement testing and indicator test as well as classroom observation. We do this 3 times a day - Language Arts, Math, and Science/Social Studies. The rest of the day they are in a "regular classroom with a regular education teacher and me. I teach the at risk/special education students even if they are not special education. Our program is unique, but our success rate is well above the average. More importantly we improve self-esteem and reading fluency. Our program is so unique that this year we have had visits from other schools in hopes to set up a program like ours. Oh, groups are changed each semester to ensure that children academic needs are met. Also I have several special education children that go to the average or intervention groups instead of mine. I had one in the advance group with an aide for reading. That is what I do to ensure that there is more success than failure.