Double Standards? Oralism And Asl?

[Eve]

I am sorry to say this Total Communication failed because it does not work that way. That's fact!

No, that's OPINION

 

[neecy]

No, that's OPINION

Agreed - so many people seem to think that just because something happened to them personally, it means its happened to everybody!

 

[Fragmenter]

Sigh.. some people say the same opinion over and over so much that it turns into a fact to them.

 

[jag]

Exactly.. it has been stressful reading lips...and also frustrating when I chose ASL and teachers get MAD and slapped a wooden ruler on my hands to make their stupid point.



They slapped the ruler wooden on my hands when I signed. When I spoke like a monkey voice. They put a soap bar in my mouth because I do not speak very well. I only speak perfect F U C K Y O U no other words that I can speak.

Hi I know i'm kinda late in this discussion but I was wondering exactly what decade this all took place? My kids have been in school since the first one started back in 81 and there is no way that that type of thing has been going on in US school districts so I doubt it's a common thing in speiclized schools. I will admit that some places do come up with dumb punishments but basically slapping, hitting and any physical punishment hasn't been around since the late 60's early 70's (back when I was in school and then it was still very uncommon)

If you're basing objection to oral teaching methods based on a time when teachers used physical punishment like slapping with rulers (they did the same thing to kids who preferred writing with their left hand at one time) then just how familiar are you with today's teaching methods? One or two visits to a certain type of school probably would not give you a good idea of their success rates and teaching methods. JMO of course.

 

[jag]

Sigh.....I'm not anti-speech therapy. I think that speech therapy is a good tool to have, and I'm glad I have that tool. That said, the tool isn't perfect....Some therapists and experts insistutite that oral skills give a dhh kid perfect equality/ equal footing in the hearing world. I'm just saying that maybe it doesn't!
Oh, and I'm hoh (moderate to severe loss)

I have a moderate/severe loss (now deaf in one ear when not using CI) I have never had ST. Perhaps I'm one of the lucky ones. I remember having an uncle I had a hard time understanding. If I go by my 22yo's history in her case the problem became very apparent in 4th grade so we do get a good base in verbal communication. I've worn HA's since age 13 but looking back i did struggle and make some dumb mistakes that could only have been based on some type of hearing loss. There are some english pronuciation rules that I just don't get

I am part of the hearing world and have never concidered myself part of the deaf culture since I've always communicated verbally and I grew up in a time when the only deaf option for education seems to have been residential school, and at that time they only sent the children home a couple weeks a year....can you imagine giving up your child to the state to educate because of deafness? If there was another option like oral education would you not try it? Just for the opertunity to raise YOUR child? IT wasn't until IDEA was passed in the early 70's that it became possible for parents to keep their kids in their home schools and get programs set up for them.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Jag, verbally means "with words", which, believe it or not, includes signing and writing.

 

[Sweetmind]

Oral rules is not the winner anyhow. You need to open your eyes and see that we do need to have our hands to talk instead of depending on oral method only. Not all deaf people feel comfortable with our Deaf voices which are not the same as hearing voices. We all did the best that we can. Why cant you just accept that fact? It s our limitation in some ways that wont match up to the hearing s way.

It s not actually 100 percent for us to do with the lipreading or hearing alone. We do not hear everything with those devices. People need to know the truth and face the reality of who we are as far as being deaf. No need to hide the truth. That 's all I am asking.

Thats when people set us up with the delaying lanugage that is not a real literacy, we want. Deaf people need to have the tools that we use, our eyes (see), Brain (learning process that fits our deafness), and our hands to speak with or without orally speaking.. Thats equal! Deaf humans have the right to make their own choices not for their parents wishes or sakes. I am asking for fairness for Deaf children 's ASL that is a very beautiful language with facial expressions, true expressions, body language, and emotion tones. It helps us to understand better that is very important in our lives. It fits us very well... Thats a big difference if you mind. Thats a positive outlook as opposed to forcing kids to be oral or "hearing" only.

Deaf cannot compare to Latened Deaf who used to be hearing. That is not fair to make people believe it.

**Ears do not think but Brain does.**

Thank you!
Sweetmind

 

[deafdyke]

You need to open your eyes and see that we do need to have our hands to talk instead of depending on oral method only. Not all deaf people feel comfortable with our Deaf voices which are not the same as hearing voices. We all did the best that we can. Why cant you just accept that fact?

Sweetmind, NOBODY HERE is advocating oral only/ oral alone! This isn't AG Bell or Auditory Verbal International!!!!!!!!!!!!1

 

[neecy]

Sweetmind, NOBODY HERE is advocating oral only/ oral alone! This isn't AG Bell or Auditory Verbal International!!!!!!!!!!!!1

I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[gnulinuxman]

Sweetmind, NOBODY HERE is advocating oral only/ oral alone! This isn't AG Bell or Auditory Verbal International!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Tell that to this guy who thinks signing is obsolete.

 

[jag]

Jag, verbally means "with words", which, believe it or not, includes signing and writing.

Yeah I Know, but it also is used as I said. Note def. 3. and the grammer meaning. But you knew that's the way I was using it so I really don't know why I bother.

Have a nice day.

2 entries found for verbal.
ver·bal Audio pronunciation of "verbal" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (vûrbl)
adj.

1. Of, relating to, or associated with words: a detailed verbal description.
2.
1. Concerned with words only rather than with content or ideas: a merely verbal distinction.
2. Consisting of words alone without action: a verbal confrontation.
3. Expressed in spoken rather than written words; oral: a verbal contract.
4. Corresponding word for word; literal: a verbal translation.
5. Grammar.
1. Relating to, having the nature or function of, or derived from a verb.
2. Used to form verbs: a verbal suffix.
6. Of or relating to proficiency in the use and understanding of words: a verbal aptitude test.


n. Grammar

A verbal noun or adjective.


[Middle English, from Old French, from Late Latin verblis, from Latin verbum, word. See verb.]verbal·ly adv.

Usage Note: Verbal has been used since the 16th century to refer to spoken, as opposed to written, communication, and the usage cannot be considered incorrect. But because verbal may also mean “by linguistic means,” it may be ambiguous in some contexts. Thus the phrase modern technologies for verbal communication may refer only to devices such as radio, the telephone, and the loudspeaker, or it may refer to devices such as the telegraph, the teletype, and the fax machine. In such contexts it may be clearer to use the word oral to convey the narrower sense of communication by spoken means.

 

[Boult]

jag is right...

Have you ever heard of this term "verbal agreement" ? what are you thinking? trying to give us hard time eh?

oh yeah there were some threads in AD about "verbal abuse" did you think it was a "written abuse" ??

and also there is a therapy for deaf called "auditory-verbal" did you think it was "verbal-written"

otherwise, Jag is right and I understood when someone used that term, "verbal" and you jump in and give this person hard time (confuse this person)

so how come you didn't criticize deafdyke before jag posted in this thread first time? I suggest you to knock it off eh...

 

[gnulinuxman]

Have you ever heard of this term "verbal agreement" ? what are you thinking?

Signed, oral, or written. And it is something I will never reach with you... :roll:

oh yeah there were some threads in AD about "verbal abuse" did you think it was a "written abuse" ??

Signed, oral, or written. Words, no matter what medium they are in (oral, written, manual) will hurt the same in any of them. And yes, in psychology and communication classes, "verbal abuse" meant any form of abuse that was in words. And I know many hearing people who use this term for more than just yelling insults with the voice.

and also there is a therapy for deaf called "auditory-verbal" did you think it was "verbal-written"

Auditory-verbal explicitly states that it is auditory! So why on Earth would I think "written" in that case?

trying to give us hard time eh?

Nope; merely pointing out that your mouth isn't the only way to communicate verbally.

 

[gnulinuxman]

Jag, I am sorry if I offended you. I'm just pointing out that it is a tad unclear to use the word "verbal" to refer to that when we have "auditory", "oral", and "vocal" too.

 

[Sweetmind]

You dont know anything!

Neecy/ Deafdyke and audism people, you dont get it what I m trying to say.. So please read this
http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?p=558270#post558270 Thats my point here.


Sweetmind

 

[loml]

 

[Sweetmind]

Well said. I see nothing "double standardish" about it. Education needs are set by the parents and if they want their children taught orally then that's what will happen. Saying its a double standard is like accusing a person who works at Ford for being disloyal because he drives a chevy truck.

Actually I believe a better comparison would be Abraham Lincoln (former president) was against slavery yet he had slaves himself.


Sweetmind

 

[Sweetmind]

Agreed - so many people seem to think that just because something happened to them personally, it means its happened to everybody!

I dont think my experience is everyone elses but I do know that I am not the only one who goes through it. Just thought Id clear that up.


Sweetmind

 

[jag]

Neecy/ Deafdyke and audism people, you dont get it what I m trying to say.. So please read this
http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.php?p=558270#post558270 Thats my point here.


Sweetmind

Braille is being replaced by new ways of recieveing information. Sad but the blind are not being left with no way to learn, books are being put on tape, and computer programs that can help them communicat are getting better and better.

ASL will not go the same way of the dodo bird ,IF those like you would work harder with drs. and professionals (teachers and ST) to actually encourage the use of TOTAL communcation from infancy.

But you really are not going to get anywhere by putting down parents who make the choice to implant their toddlers and young children. Running around complaining about the 'audists' ad nauseum is not gaining any support for your language and it's use with these young children. The threat is more the ASL only people who so strongly object to the parents decision that the parents basically say to H-LL with you and your stuck in a rut ways and decide against your language. ASL is a beautiful language, encourage new parents to use it in addition to any other methods they choose, rather then acting in ways toward them so they reject the deaf community.


The whole debate doesn't have to be that way, parent groups who's children have Down syndrome have made educational brochures to give to peds and ob-gyns to give to parents who's babies have been diagnosed with Tri-21 an idea of what having a child with DS is really like. If the deaf community wants these kids to all they can be, if they want to help them have a total communication tool box, they'll except the oral/hearing part AND encourage the families to become part of the deaf community and include ASL as one of their childs languages.

In the end, it'll be up to the deaf community and negative attitudes on your won't get these families in. Parenting can be enough of a challenge without having to listen to someone continually insult you.

Have a nice day.

 

[Sweetmind]

http://www.alldeaf.com/showthread.p...8270#post558270

"You can't be literate just listening," she says. "Literacy helps us think and communication our thoughts. You will never be truly literate without Braille.

You cant be literate just listening, Sweetmind says. " Literacy helps us think and communication our thoughts. You will never be truly literate without BI BI lanuguage that includes ASL/SE as well.

Thats what I have said it all along for 8 years so I know what I m talking about. It s proven already. That's why I m being stubborn and wont give it up about having a great literacy for Deaf children' rights. So there! You just cannot make Deaf children into a hearing child from the start. So be it! Ha! how can you lie about our speech impairment that does have Deaf voices or accent that no one can change that? Jeez! I dont need your lies anymore. Period. We did the best we could that you will never satisfied our hardwork effort with our oral speaking with or without devices. Then heck with you.

Many hearing teachers with SEE or unnecessary to have many artificial languages or no knowledge of Deaf culture or ASL, who failed Deaf and Deaf oralist children s education for years and years. That is a big mistake by audism people/ many parents did forced, conformed and manipulated us to speak and hear only. Blame yourself, your Doctor, audism people and many parents who wants us to be normal, not Deaf people's fault who believe in BI BI lanugage for a very good reason.

Devices is not the answer to make our life better that people think we can hear that is totally wrong. After all many people dont have a good self esteem about our being deaf and deafness. So why is that? Because of course, the society doesnt accept you all the way from the start. I feel that I didnt have to do it for hearing people s sake or parent s sake that is very reasonable for me to stand up. We Deaf children have their rights to have a very positive reinforcement about our being deaf and true identity.

Here are negative words that we see everyday

Manipulate -
control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly, unfairly, or unscrupulously : the masses were deceived and manipulated by a tiny group. • alter (data) or present (statistics) so as to mislead.

Conform -
• (of a person) behave according to socially acceptable conventions or standards : the pressure to conform.

Force - (often be forced) make (someone) do something against their will.

Attitude is the answer that needs to tune up real good first. Of course I want parents to realize that is a fact and truth because I care and want Deaf children have their rights.

There is no such thing about being normal human being for anyone anyhow. We have the right to be Deaf human as well. I would love to see UNITY between Hearing and Deaf people into a diverse world not hearing world only. Martha's Vineyard people with a great attitude was very successful between Hearing and Deaf people, I would like to see the equality for Deaf people back again.

We have the right to have our Deaf Pride and Deaf Spirit that we can do anything except hear. There are Deaf professionals that were successful in the past years that you ignored the facts . So be it!.

Thank you!
Sweetmind