Do you believe in God?

[DreamSlayer]

Jesus had several problems with the individuals who claimed to follow him. However he claimed to be Lord, and that he was the new life. His problem was with those who didn't want to leave their old lives behind.
Although I agree that a lot of stuff is missing; the ark of the covenant, Noah's ark, and so on, there is a lot of stuff found. The name of Jesus is found in many ancient historical texts other than the bible, and are considered true, records of the death of his diciples, actual biblical places exist, the concensus that herod took that made Joseph go to bethleham. If you are questioning whether Jesus existed, then you fail to understand what almost all scholors (religious or not) already agree on. He lived. He died.
If you question the accuracy of the Bible in it's traslated form today, then consider that it is a historical document with copies in the original language that we have in abundance and written shortly after the originals. Better sources than those that state Ceasar lived, because they are closer to the event, and we have many more of them. Example; Dead Sea Scrolls.
If you question who made God, understand that an infinite series that continues would not lead to an effect, and in a closed universe a series of Cause and effect you will end up going in circles. God is the first cause, just as science states the big bang was the first cause.
A perfect Creator created a perfect world? interesting argument... but only if you can use "perfect" in an objective way. Could have been perfect with out the freedom to choose, then we'd all be robots. is that perfect? or the having the freedom to choose, the freedom to mess up, and the freedom to make things as bad as they are? is that perfect? Can a human being give an objective definition of the word perfect?
Natural Processes created us? Evolution? interesting arguement. A process driven by the need to adapt, and runs on Mutations. Please provide one example of a benefial mutation observed scientifically in the past 10 years, 20 years, 100 years. I know of one, so if you can get that, then try and find 2. Beneficial Mutations are hard to come by. I seriously doubt it was by millions and millions of beneficial mutations that we are the way we are today.

 

[VamPyroX]

hello? Ark as you seen the movie "Indianan Jones: The Lost Ark"!

So you believe that God exists just because you saw Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark?

 

[VamPyroX]

JESUS HAS A SERIOUS PROBLEM WITH THE CHRISTIAN APPROACH

Yes, Jesus has a big problem with their approach for he says.

Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord and not do what I tell you to do.

In other words, if Christians were really following Jesus as Lord, they would do what he said to do, and they would find the way, the truth and a new life.

Therein lies the catch. They (Christians) would have to do what Jesus says to do in order for Jesus to be their Lord. Big problem.

If he wants us to follow him, he should be here telling us what to do. If he wants us to do it through the Bible, then how can that be done? If we were to follow the Bible, word-for-word... we'd be lonely outcasts out in the desolate desert. Look at the people who think they are following his word, and nothing's happening to them except for the thirst for war!

 

[gnarlydorkette]

If he wants us to follow him, he should be here telling us what to do. If he wants us to do it through the Bible, then how can that be done? If we were to follow the Bible, word-for-word... we'd be lonely outcasts out in the desolate desert. Look at the people who think they are following his word, and nothing's happening to them except for the thirst for war!

agreed.
That is why I am confused because there are people who claimed themselves to be "Jesus Freak" yet... the bible says different.
[whispering "hypocrites!"]

Yes, I know Jesus is a real person. But one thought has been stuck in my mind... I have been known to ask impossible question for strange sceanrios. I am thinking since I have been to modern worlds and we have a much better knowledge of labelling certain groups due to the degree of their devoution to something. Fanatic for those who idolize somebody. Pious for those who are dead-hard about their religion. Cult for those who worship for something and believe in something that is *different*.
I am thinking... what if.. JUST WHAT IF... don't kill me, but think about it from a modern perspective- what if Jesus was a cult leader? I mean... he had the same recipe at that time... leading everybody into a religious revolution. Defy the norms. Believe that something good will come for those.
If you got upset, dont. I just thought of that since all cults are similar- they believed that something will.. save them from the evilness and they have to do certain things in order to save themselves. Some cults... do so by killing themselves.
What if... a religion is an euphemism for a cult? I mean... most religions ask the followers to defy the norms of sinners... and they have to come by certain days. eat the blood and body of Jesus (not literally!) and pray for their salvation into the heaven. MAybe it is a mild version of a cult?

I am just thinking aloud, I am not SAYING that YOU ARE A CULT FOLLOWER. It sort of help me to understand those cult people... and at the same time, understand those religious freaks.... somehow.

Could anybody make sense of what I am rambling on?

 

[VamPyroX]

agreed.
That is why I am confused because there are people who claimed themselves to be "Jesus Freak" yet... the bible says different.
[whispering "hypocrites!"]

Yes, I know Jesus is a real person. But one thought has been stuck in my mind... I have been known to ask impossible question for strange sceanrios. I am thinking since I have been to modern worlds and we have a much better knowledge of labelling certain groups due to the degree of their devoution to something. Fanatic for those who idolize somebody. Pious for those who are dead-hard about their religion. Cult for those who worship for something and believe in something that is *different*.
I am thinking... what if.. JUST WHAT IF... don't kill me, but think about it from a modern perspective- what if Jesus was a cult leader? I mean... he had the same recipe at that time... leading everybody into a religious revolution. Defy the norms. Believe that something good will come for those.
If you got upset, dont. I just thought of that since all cults are similar- they believed that something will.. save them from the evilness and they have to do certain things in order to save themselves. Some cults... do so by killing themselves.
What if... a religion is an euphemism for a cult? I mean... most religions ask the followers to defy the norms of sinners... and they have to come by certain days. eat the blood and body of Jesus (not literally!) and pray for their salvation into the heaven. MAybe it is a mild version of a cult?

I am just thinking aloud, I am not SAYING that YOU ARE A CULT FOLLOWER. It sort of help me to understand those cult people... and at the same time, understand those religious freaks.... somehow.

Could anybody make sense of what I am rambling on?

You're making sense to me. If you've studied a bit in sociology, you'll hear the word cult used.

cult n.

1. '
2. • A religion or religious sect generally considered to be extremist or false, with its followers often living in an unconventional manner under the guidance of an authoritarian, charismatic leader.
   • The followers of such a religion or sect.
3. A system or community of religious worship and ritual.
4. The formal means of expressing religious reverence; religious ceremony and ritual.
5. A usually nonscientific method or regimen claimed by its originator to have exclusive or exceptional power in curing a particular disease.
6. '
   • Obsessive, especially faddish, devotion to or veneration for a person, principle, or thing.
   • The object of such devotion.
7. An exclusive group of persons sharing an esoteric, usually artistic or intellectual interest.

According to these definitions, other so-called religions are considered cults. Now, if sociology was taught in other countries... they would look at us and call us cults. In other words, the world is full of cults. So, the big question is... "Which is the correct religion?"

 

[illustrator]

So you believe that God exists just because you saw Indiana Jones: Raiders of the Lost Ark?

Stop that, I don't said because I saw from the movie. I just give the mention that you could know what excatly I am talk about! You could know what Ark is. Don't you see the actually Ark? It's on the musem at the holy city. It exist.

 

[illustrator]

I am thinking... what if.. JUST WHAT IF... don't kill me, but think about it from a modern perspective- what if Jesus was a cult leader? I mean... he had the same recipe at that time... leading everybody into a religious revolution. Defy the norms. Believe that something good will come for those.

Not true, what I hear the story about Jesus. He never want to be king or anything relative to "leader". It's just people who follow him. Jesus never encourage anyone do that. Jesus just simple help to understand the simliar need to know how to believe in faith and love.

 

[VamPyroX]

Stop that, I don't said because I saw from the movie. I just give the mention that you could know what excatly I am talk about! You could know what Ark is. Don't you see the actually Ark? It's on the musem at the holy city. It exist.

I was being sarcastic. As for the ark, how do you know it wasn't just created until after the Bible was written? What if it was created and then some guy saw it and came up with some wild imaginary story about it so he put it in the Bible.

For all we know, the Bible could just be known as "The Greatest Story Ever Written". No, I don't mean... non-fiction. I mean... FICTION!

 

[DreamSlayer]

Although the Bible could be taken as fiction, there are a lot of historical evidence that provide support that it is more than a story. Historical names, places, and events have been proven as accurate from the Bible.

Inconsistencies between Christian teaching and the Bible are easy to point out if used out of Context, as Lunz has so Graciously done.

CHRISTIAN TEACHING: Jesus is coming again to be seen.

THE BIBLE: Luke 17:20, The Kingdom comes not with observation. The kingdom of God is within you. ".

If you continue reading luke 17 please notice 17:23-25 where Jesus clearly makes reference to the "day of the son of man" (his returning). And when Jesus states the Kingdom of God can't be observed as coming, He means it's spiritual, not a physical kingdom.

CHRISTIAN TEACHING: You must ask Jesus to come into your heart.

THE BIBLE: Jesus says in John 16:23, " At that time you shall ask me nothing.

Again, out of context. Jesus Clearly stated that humanity was grieving, but when He "sees us again" we will be full of Joy. And being full of Joy we will ask him nothing for we will be complete. Everything we ask for will be recieved. Which happens to be the verse that follows the one you posted.
John 16:24 "Until now you have not asked for anything in my name. Ask and you will recieve, and your joy will be complete"

CHRISTIAN TEACHING: Jesus will intercede to the father for you.

THE BIBLE: In John 16:26 Jesus says, " I say not that I will pray the father for you.

John 16:26 (NIV) "In that day you will ask in my name. I am not saying I will ask the Father on your behalf. 16:27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.

That in itself states intercession. It speaks of a relationship between man and God because of Jesus, no longer having to use prophets and priests to speak to God, but by asking in the name of Jesus.

CHRISTIAN TEACHING: Jesus can do all things.

THE BIBLE: Jesus says in John 5:30, " Of my own self, I can do nothing".

First, Jesus can do all things is not how that statement is meant. Jesus cannot make himself not exist, he cannot lie, He cannot be evil, there are many things Jesus cannot do because of his nature.
Second; Jesus is saying that God is the authority. A discussion of the Trinity would be long, so understand this: Jesus is God in nature, but not in 'rank' There is a rank to the three personalities of the Christian God, Father, Son, Holy Spirit. Jesus obeys the Father, and the Holy Spirit obeys Jesus and the Father.

CHRISTIAN TEACHING: You must have faith in God, you must be baptized, and you will face eternal judgment.

THE BIBLE: In Hebrews 6:1 it says, get away from faith in God, get away from the doctrine of Baptism and of eternal judgment.

this one I took personal as it is one of my favorite passages of scripute. I need not reply other than to say you have simply misquoted Hebrews 6:1.
If you have taken it from a Bible, then I suggest you check another translation.

FINALLY

CHRISTIAN TEACHING: We are all worthless sinners.

THE BIBLE: Matthew 5:14 Jesus says, " You are the light of the world".

That is so true. I am a sinner, saved by the blood of Jesus, and am now to be a light in this world. Christianity teaches that all have sinned, and sin has seperated us from God. also teaches that Christ redeems those who have faith in Him, and those who are saved become light in a dark world, to spread "The Light" means to spread the word of God. That's not a contridiction either.

Understand this; to dismiss something that could be true, when you yourself understand very little about it, is the same kind of prison you assume Christians live in.

There is no harm in learning about different religions, the harm comes when you try to forcefully change the beliefs of others, Like some of the early Christians did. It is also harmful to be angry at those who have a belief that is different than your own. Christianity teaches 2 main points above all else which you seemed to leave out;
Love your God with all your heart.
Love your nieghbor as yourself.

Christians do not always live this way, but we are human and we get to try and try again. Our God has forgiven us for not being perfect, it is too bad other people are not always that forgiving with flaws.

 

[Y]

Catholics believe that they will go to
the Heaven only because they did
something Good for others. They tend
to forgot all about the top priority: Jesus.

There are Two Top most important things are to
love and accept Jesus in your heart
and love your neighbors....

Geez, that might meant that I will go
to the HELL !!! ??? Because I do NOT
love my neighbors....

Of course, I do NOT want to go
to the HELL ! Scary.....

 

[LUNZ]

DreamSlayer, you have interesting translation and different point of view on the NIV bible. sure, i will read your favorite passages of scripute. i dont read NIV bible and i tends to read many different name of bible like KJV and others. Remembered, it has be edited in each of the bible, but i have my own truth, not others told me to.

Ok, i m challengin you one more thing.

Isaiah 45:7 " I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do all these things".

For examples, Too much sun and a tiny flower will die, too much sun and you become sick. The same power that gives you life can make you sick.

There must be light and there must be darkness, there must be positive and there must be negative. It is the power of life, the power of nature.

 

[LUNZ]

Catholics believe that they will go to
the Heaven only because they did
something Good for others. They tend
to forgot all about the top priority: Jesus.

There are Two Top most important things are to
love and accept Jesus in your heart
and love your neighbors....

Geez, that might meant that I will go
to the HELL !!! ??? Because I do NOT
love my neighbors....

Of course, I do NOT want to go
to the HELL ! Scary.....

Luke 6:46 Why do you call me Lord and not do what I tell you to do.

is that love for your neighbor like jesus? oh please. Think abt it!

 

[VamPyroX]

Here's a question...

Where did the Bible come from? Who wrote it? How was it written? Where was the information found?

I find it odd that different men happened to be writing the stories in chronological order for the Bible.

 

[DreamSlayer]

I usually would quote from the NASB, but my parallel Bible was in my car.
Unfortunately when translating a text from one language to another there are at least 2 things to take into consideration. The actual words and the actual meaning. I find the KJV a good translation also, but sometimes the 'old english' is hard to understand.

As for Isaiah 45:7
Christian teaching: God is Lord, God is Judge, God is creator of all things

Several times in the Bible it mentions that we all in someway deserve some form of punishment, either for the rejection of God, or for the pain and suffering we cause to others, or anyother kind of Sin. "For the wages of sin is Death". That's pretty harsh punishment. As Judge, God is the one who is able to give the punishment, and in the old testement did several times. Plagues, famine, death. The NIV translates "Evil" as "create disaster", in Isaiah 45:7. I'm going to try and find out which is the better translation of the Hebrew word. the book of Job is an interesting study on suffering and disaster.

I would agree that there is a fragile balance in this universe, which only leads me to believe that there is some greater power to maintain that balance.

Here's a question...

Where did the Bible come from? Who wrote it? How was it written? Where was the information found?

I find it odd that different men happened to be writing the stories in chronological order for the Bible.

The Torah (the first 5 books of the Bible, Genesis to Deuteronomy) are credited to Moses. Ecclestiastes is thought to be written by Solomon (or a student/s of his) Most of the Psalms are written by King David. Paul wrote a lot of the books in the New Testement. And Mathew, Mark, Luke, and John, are suspected to be the authors of those gospels.

The old testement is the story of the Jews, they kept an oral history of the events of their people until scribes put it down in writing. These stories would have been kept in some kind of order over time, just as the egyptians kept their history, the greeks, and the romans. The Old testement I am reading at present is set up a little differently. Job would be the oldest of the books, and some of the Major and Minor prophets would fall between the history section.

The new testemant is not in chronological order. The 4 gospels are the life of Jesus, taken from witnesses, and help strengthen each other. The 4 overlap in time period, but each author focusses on different aspects of Jesus' life. Acts and Chronicals would be historical records of the early 'church' (group and growth of believers) after the death of Jesus, and how the apostles spread the gospil. The rest are letters written to different 'churches', example Thessalonians, Colossians, and Corinthians.

Revelations is a book of Prophesy written probably by the apostle John. Writen probably around 95AD.

I do not find it odd that the Jewish people kept a record of their history, and their faith. The life of Jesus was recorded for obvious reasons, and the early letters came from men of great faith to help encourage those in the faith.

In response to Y, it is not only some Catholics that miss the point, but lots and lots of people who have blind faith. I know many people who attend Bible college and come out just as blind as when they went in.

Understand 2 things, God doesn't want to force people into heaven, so there had to be another option. God knew we could never do enough good things to get into Heaven, so he sent Jesus, to take the place of our punishment.
Why is Christianity so narrow? Why only Jesus as the way to heaven?
I don't know, but how many ways would have been enough? how many religions needed to be the way to heaven before you believed in one?

Sorry I write so much. Thanx for being patient with me.

 

[weekend]

Catholics believe that they will go to
the Heaven only because they did
something Good for others. They tend
to forgot all about the top priority: Jesus.

Catholics always sing and remember Jesus for Good Friday, Easter Day, and the day Jesus born.

 

[VamPyroX]

People say that we're the only living things in the universe... because of God. When we talk about aliens, they always say that there is no life out there... because God said so. Well, that would show that God is too stubborn or selfish... only using Earth. Here's another question, why make Mars? Why make Jupiter? Why make various planets. Maybe they are all part of God's so-called "experiments". Maybe, God did make aliens... in another universe... million, no billions of years ago. They've reached to a point where God felt that he didn't need to watch them any more so he moved on with other experiments. Now, he's looking at Earth. The aliens have gotten so advanced that they have learned space travel. They decided to see what else God has made so they visit earth... hence, the "visitors"! No, we're not alone! Also, the Bible says that we were created in God's image. If we were created in his image, what were the aliens created from? Since all life is supposedly created by God, then all life would have been done in his image. Since people never seen God, how do we know we are created in his image? For all we know, that quote was probably meant for the aliens... meaning, God looks like an alien! Eek!

 

[Maria]

Oh, wow. That topic is pretty heavy. *Chuckles* Well, let's see. Umm, I just happened found God's letter from the website when I surfed the other day. Let me share it with ya and see what ya think of this letter I just copy and paste below :

A Letter from God

My Dear Children (and believe me, that's all of you):

I consider myself a pretty patient guy. I mean, look at the Grand Canyon. It took millions of years to get it right. I've been patient through your fashions, civilizations, wars and schemes, and the countless ways you take Me for granted until you get yourselves into big trouble again and again.

But I need you to know about some things that are really starting to tick me off.

First of all, your religious rivalries are driving Me up a wall. Enough already! Let's get one thing straight. These are YOUR religions, not Mine.

I'm the whole enchilada; I'm beyond them all. Every one of your religions claims it's My favorite one, and that all of the other religions are wrong. How do I even begin to put a stop to such complicated nonsense?

Okay, listen up now. I'm your Father AND Mother, and I don't play favorites among My children. Also, I hate to break it to you, but I don't write dogma. I've always been more of a "doer" anyway.

You see, one human being to me -- even a bum on the street -- is worth more than all the dogma and ritual in the world. That's just the kind of guy I am.

My Spirit is not a historical thing, it's alive right here, right now, as fresh as your next breath.

The Bible, the Koran and other religious books were meant to steer you in the right direction, not to keep you arguing with each other, and certainly not to keep you from trusting your own personal connection with Me. Which brings Me to My next point about your nonsense.

All of the religions have two basic principles that have often gotten lost - have faith in God and treat others as you would want to be treated. I just want you to be good to each other.

And another thing: I don't get all worked up over money or politics, so stop dragging My name into your dramas. For example, I swear to Me that I never threatened Oral Roberts. I never rode in any of Rajneesh's Rolls Royces. I never told Pat Robertson to run for president, and I've never EVER had a conversation with Jim Baker or Jimmy Swaggart! Of course, come Judgement Day, I certainly intend to...

The thing is, I want you to stop thinking of religion as some sort of loyalty pledge to Me. The true purpose of your religions is so that YOU can become more aware of ME, not the other way around.

Believe Me, I know you already. I know what's in each of your hearts., and I love you with no strings attached.

Lighten up and enjoy the spiritual life. What you seem to forget is how mysterious I am.

You look at the petty differences between religions and say, "Well, if THIS is the truth, then THAT can't be!" But instead of trying to figure out My Paradoxes and Unfathomable Nature--which by the way, you NEVER will--why not open your hearts to the simple common threads in all religions.

You know what I'm talking about: Love and respect everyone. Be kind, even when life is scary or confusing, take courage and be of good cheer, for I am always with you. Learn how to be quiet, so you can hear My still, small voice (I don't like to shout).

Leave the world a better place by living your life with dignity and gracefulness.

Hold back nothing from life, for the parts of you that can die surely will, and the parts that can't, won't.

Simple stuff. Why do you keep making it so complicated?

It's like you're always looking for an excuse to be upset. And I'm very tired of being your main excuse. Do you think I care whether you call me Yahweh, Jehovah, Allah, Brahma, Father, Mother or even the Void of Nirvana?

You can call Me any name you choose, if only you would go about My business of loving one another as I love you. How can you keep neglecting something so simple?

Each religion is unique for a reason. Each has a unique style so that people can find the best path for themselves. My blessed children of Earth, the world has grown too small for your pervasive religious bigotries and confusion. The whole planet is connected by air travel, satellite dishes, email, rock concerts, diseases, and mutual needs and concerns.

Get with the program!

If you really want to help, then commit yourselves to figuring out how to feed your hungry, clothe your naked, protect your abused, and shelter your poor. And just as importantly, make your own everyday life a shining example of kindness and good humor.

I've given you all the resources you need, if only you abandon your fear of each other and begin living, loving, and laughing together. Finally, My Children everywhere, when you think of the life of Jesus and the fearlessness with which He chose to live and die. As I love Him, so do I love each one of you.

I'm not really ticked off, I just wanted to grab your attention because I hate to see you suffer.

But I gave you free will.

I just want you to be happy. Always. Trust in Me.

Your One and Only,

God.

Interestin', isn't it?

 

[LUNZ]

People say that we're the only living things in the universe... because of God. When we talk about aliens, they always say that there is no life out there... because God said so. Well, that would show that God is too stubborn or selfish... only using Earth. Here's another question, why make Mars? Why make Jupiter? Why make various planets. Maybe they are all part of God's so-called "experiments". Maybe, God did make aliens... in another universe... million, no billions of years ago. They've reached to a point where God felt that he didn't need to watch them any more so he moved on with other experiments. Now, he's looking at Earth. The aliens have gotten so advanced that they have learned space travel. They decided to see what else God has made so they visit earth... hence, the "visitors"! No, we're not alone! Also, the Bible says that we were created in God's image. If we were created in his image, what were the aliens created from? Since all life is supposedly created by God, then all life would have been done in his image. Since people never seen God, how do we know we are created in his image? For all we know, that quote was probably meant for the aliens... meaning, God looks like an alien! Eek!

well said! amen!

 

[Angel]

CyberRed,

Where is the website ( Link ) for this?....

 

[Y]

Catholics always sing and remember Jesus for Good Friday, Easter Day, and the day Jesus born.

oh, yeah that's a Good point...

Catholics usually celebrate on
these special holidays for Jesus...

The only difference I noticed at
my previous Catholic churches:
they do not bother to read the Bible
during church...

When my family relocated to
another state we learned so
much from a Christian church
where they always read and
discuss the Bible.

That's the only one difference...

I still love my Catholic cousins
and friends... no matter what.