Do We Need Proper Inglish and Spelling?

Thats a Chinese saying ;)
 
deafskeptic said:
Nods. When I post I will correct my grammar if not always my spelling (I'm really bad at spelling) but when I'm using IMs or playing WoW, it's harder for me to edit my grammar in chat. Most people don't call on it even when I leave out ings when it's needed.

Once some grammar nazi in my guild at WoW kept correcting other hearing's grammar and I typed rolls her eyes at grammar nazi. He pounced on my grammatical errors and told me in guild chat he couldn't believe I would make such an error. I put him on ignore and one hearing person told me hell nobody uses correct grammar in chat so who cares? I don't need some hearing @$$ making fun of my grammar after all the work I spent on my English skills. I get As in English even when I'm the only deaf in that class. So there.
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I've dealt with the same issue in college. One of my professors had a one-on-one session with her students to talk about a recent paper that was done. When she met with me, she asked me if a tutor, teacher, or parent did my homework or helped me with my homework. I was like, "Eh? No, this is my own writing... in my own words." She was shocked because my writing was better than most of the hearing students. She said that most of the hearing students wrote like they were video gamers or online bloggers.

The same thing happened with my thesis project. My advisor actually thought that I had a lot of help with my writing. The only person that looked at my project was my mentor and she helped me a little. My advisor said that a lot of other students in the program wrote like they were in computer class or speaking in internet lingo.

Sure, I speak in internet lingo or computer language... but only when appropriate. No, I'm not a computer geek or a grammar nazi. I simply do what fits the occasion. ;)
 
VamPyroX said:
I've dealt with the same issue in college. One of my professors had a one-on-one session with her students to talk about a recent paper that was done. When she met with me, she asked me if a tutor, teacher, or parent did my homework or helped me with my homework. I was like, "Eh? No, this is my own writing... in my own words." She was shocked because my writing was better than most of the hearing students. She said that most of the hearing students wrote like they were video gamers or online bloggers.

]The same thing happened with my thesis project. My advisor actually thought that I had a lot of help with my writing. The only person that looked at my project was my mentor and she helped me a little. My advisor said that a lot of other students in the program wrote like they were in computer class or speaking in internet lingo.

Sure, I speak in internet lingo or computer language... but only when appropriate. No, I'm not a computer geek or a grammar nazi. I simply do what fits the occasion. ;)
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Oh yeah, I can relate to that. Many late deafened adults have a hard time believing that I'm actually a prelingual when they see how well I write. All they have to do is ask me about the contents of songs that were popular in the 80's and I'm BUSTED big time if I should try to pass myself off as late deafened.
 
I think OP is confusing with informal and formal setting. Sure you can talk anything what you want but if you are not making any sense , then you need to correct your grammar in order to have anyone to understand what you are saying. ASL is dialect language rather than written language so it is useless to criticize one person's grammar if he or she is signing. As for writing, I think it is really important to have good grammar skills to show the audience that you have high command of English or any other language to get your point across.
 
Spelling, I'm not too big of a Nazi on. However, grammar and syntax I am ANAL about. It's not THAT hard to express yourself when you write. People who can't express themselves too well in writing, just look......uneducated. And not MR style uneducated.......more like "HELLO! Use your BRAIN!" uneducated
 
lumbingmi said:
???
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I think he is referring to Chinese proverb for "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

He is saying that it's not "Oscar Wilde" who said it, but a Chinese proverb.


It doesn't make a sense after I googled for a bit.

Here's what I have found.

Chinese proverb: He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

Charles Caleb Colton: Examinations are formidable even to the best prepared, for the greatest fool may ask more than the wisest man can answer.

Sorry, I always like to listen to proverbs or wise quotes so I checked around a bit.
 
Silentwolfdog said:
I think he is referring to Chinese proverb for "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

He is saying that it's not "Oscar Wilde" who said it, but a Chinese proverb.


It doesn't make a sense after I googled for a bit.

Here's what I have found.

Chinese proverb: He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes; he who does not ask a question remains a fool forever.

Charles Caleb Colton: Examinations are formidable even to the best prepared, for the greatest fool may ask more than the wisest man can answer.

Sorry, I always like to listen to proverbs or wise quotes so I checked around a bit.
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Thanks for your efforts but these are irrelevant to this thread.
 
omegaman said:
Sorry for not quoting and causing confusion. :)
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lol2.gif
 
Doug5 said:
I have heard that too. English teachers getting all into a tizzy about that.
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Well nowadays, we use so much text message on AIM, YIM or Email.

WTF, BRB, LOL, TMI, etc... I admitted that I use alot of abbreviations on my sidekick3 especially on the cell phone correspondence with my two sons and their girlfriends. We used alot of abbreivations because of no room on their cell phones.

We become a bad habit.
 
What Barry described is called "levels of diction" in literature. Everyone who speaks or writes any language can use more than one level. The more education, experience, or interest in language, the more levels of diction may be used effectively. Here are a few levels of diction with examples of saying the same thing in different words:

1. Euphonic. Professional-to-professional language. Poetic, educated, flowery.
Edward tends toward ambiguity when conversing among peers, with probable motive to confound rather than elucidate.

2. Standard. A language understood by most people of a nation. The speech of national newscasters is an example.
Edward is purposefully vague when speaking to friends to keep them confused.

3. Colloquial. A language particular to a nation. Most colloquialisms cannot be literally translated. For example, “She split her sides laughing” really means “She laughed heartily.” Every language has an adverb meaning "suddenly," but in English the colloquial "all of a sudden" means the same thing."
Eddie is so full of it that his buddies get all mixed up.

4. Slang. Often the language of a region, ethnic culture, or special group, slang is ever- changing, slipping from gibberish to colloquial.
ed’s uber random, u no, n were all like wtf????????

5. Nonstandard Formerly "substandard." The language is uneducated and often obtuse.
Me and Ed dont talk no more, aint no easy, him.

6. Vulgar. Expletives abound:
Fucker talks shit.

7. Gibberish. As with some slang, gobbledegook is meaningless without the code book.
Whoa! Dude! Like, ROFL.


Slang and gobbledegook are nothing new. Right after the first cavemen made up a term so everyone could work together, their kids made slang and gobbledegook out of the term to be cool. It doesn't shake up as many people as the youngsters imagine.
 
Chase said:
What Barry described is called "levels of diction" in literature. Everyone who speaks or writes any language can use more than one level. The more education, experience, or interest in language, the more levels of diction may be used effectively. Here are a few levels of diction with examples of saying the same thing in different words:

1. Euphonic. Professional-to-professional language. Poetic, educated, flowery.
Edward tends toward ambiguity when conversing among peers, with probable motive to confound rather than elucidate.

2. Standard. A language understood by most people of a nation. The speech of national newscasters is an example.
Edward is purposefully vague when speaking to friends to keep them confused.

3. Colloquial. A language particular to a nation. Most colloquialisms cannot be literally translated. For example, “She split her sides laughing” really means “She laughed heartily.” Every language has an adverb meaning "suddenly," but in English the colloquial "all of a sudden" means the same thing."
Eddie is so full of it that his buddies get all mixed up.

4. Slang. Often the language of a region, ethnic culture, or special group, slang is ever- changing, slipping from gibberish to colloquial.
ed’s uber random, u no, n were all like wtf????????

5. Nonstandard Formerly "substandard." The language is uneducated and often obtuse.
Me and Ed dont talk no more, aint no easy, him.

6. Vulgar. Expletives abound:
Fucker talks shit.

7. Gibberish. As with some slang, gobbledegook is meaningless without the code book.
Whoa! Dude! Like, ROFL.


Slang and gobbledegook are nothing new. Right after the first cavemen made up a term so everyone could work together, their kids made slang and gobbledegook out of the term to be cool. It doesn't shake up as many people as the youngsters imagine.
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#5 has been debated by the black community because it was referred to ebonics or something like that, right? Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Interesting post, Chase. :)
 
shel90 said:
#5 has been debated by the black community because it was referred to ebonics or something like that, right? Pls correct me if I am wrong.

Interesting post, Chase. :)
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You be right, girl.

(I don't think it originally meant Ebonics, but many referred to Ebonics that way)

Part of the problem stems from some overzealous teachers interacting with certain black kids who were using Ebonics.

Here is the way I see it: Teaching a student to be able to use standard, formal English is one thing, and should be a right and proper activity for a teacher to do; But insisting that the student always use formal English as being "correct" English, and worse, insinuating that the way the student does speak is "ignorant" or otherwise demeaning is way out of the teachers purview.

Unfortunately, but almost predictably the way our society is set up socially, some teachers did little to teach English and did far more to attack Ebonics than many Black activists could stand.

It went to court: As far as I know it is still being debated.

A school in Oakland decided to treat Ebonics as a second language and it wound up with as much flack as the ones that tried to eliminate it.

In any case many teachers and schools became timid about teaching formal English. In the milieu of our society the more a teacher does the more they can come under attack and the less they do the more apt they are to follow their careers thru to a pleasent retirement.
 
shel90 said:
#5 has been debated by the black community because it was referred to ebonics or something like that, right? Pls correct me if I am wrong.
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I don't think you're wrong at all. Ebonomics is certainly a form of colloquial speech, morphing almost daily from "in" jargon to widespread slang.

But no race or ethnic group has sole claim on non-standard languages. Montana cowboys, Louisiana rednecks, New York cabbies, and Los Angeles home boys all have their own variety.

Everyone wants his or her own language to be recognized on a par with "official" languages. Doug is the same wanting codified shorthand to someday be THE language. ASL users want their language as-is.
 
Chase said:
I don't think you're wrong at all. Ebonomics is certainly a form of colloquial speech, morphing almost daily from "in" jargon to widespread slang.

But no race or ethnic group has sole claim on non-standard languages. Montana cowboys, Louisiana rednecks, New York cabbies, and Los Angeles home boys all have their own variety.

Everyone wants his or her own language to be recognized on a par with "official" languages. Doug is the same wanting codified shorthand to sone day be THE language. ASL users want their language as-is.[/QUOTE]


That's interesting...
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Berry said:
You be right, girl.

(I don't think it originally meant Ebonics, but many referred to Ebonics that way)

Part of the problem stems from some overzealous teachers interacting with certain black kids who were using Ebonics.

Here is the way I see it: Teaching a student to be able to use standard, formal English is one thing, and should be a right and proper activity for a teacher to do; But insisting that the student always use formal English as being "correct" English, and worse, insinuating that the way the student does speak is "ignorant" or otherwise demeaning is way out of the teachers purview.

Unfortunately, but almost predictably the way our society is set up socially, some teachers did little to teach English and did far more to attack Ebonics than many Black activists could stand.

It went to court: As far as I know it is still being debated.

A school in Oakland decided to treat Ebonics as a second language and it wound up with as much flack as the ones that tried to eliminate it.

In any case many teachers and schools became timid about teaching formal English. In the milieu of our society the more a teacher does the more they can come under attack and the less they do the more apt they are to follow their careers thru to a pleasent retirement.
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My husband who is black grew up around with it but he refused to talk like that. He got picked on for talking like a "white" person. Even his own family called him their "white" kid. I asked him why he wouldnt talk like that and he said that if one percieves themselves as uneducated or as not needing education, then they will talk like it. He said he never percieved himself as that way. That's his view.
 
shel90 said:
My husband who is black grew up around with it but he refused to talk like that. He got picked on for talking like a "white" person. Even his own family called him their "white" kid. I asked him why he wouldnt talk like that and he said that if one percieves themselves as uneducated or as not needing education, then they will talk like it. He said he never percieved himself as that way. That's his view.
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My wife hates it when I talk about culture, but people react to the culture they are exposed to regardless. When people are exposed to more than one culture, each of which expects different things of them, they either become confused or make choices.

I personally enjoy the rich diversity of language.

Chase said:
What Barry described is called "levels of diction" in literature. Everyone who speaks or writes any language can use more than one level. The more education, experience, or interest in language, the more levels of diction may be used effectively. Here are a few levels of diction with examples of saying the same thing in different words:
Click to expand...

Levels of diction: Thank you, Chase. I am wholly self educated which means that while my knowledge is extensive it is also as full of holes as a block of swiss cheese.
 
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