Do We Need Proper Inglish and Spelling?

WOW!

What amazes me is that every poster, no matter how diametrically opposed to other posters: Has at least one good, solid, point to make.

Here is one inescapable fact: Language lables you; Pigeon holes you; Puts you in your own little corner and furthermore people will leave you there.

There is no one way to use English, ASL, or any other language. Your best bet is to be able to talk the way the peeps talk whose respect you looking for. I don't talk the same way with my grandson and his dawgs as I do with the old hippies at the artist group, or the thinkaholics at my old chess club: The same with my spellen.

And yes, leet is not only changing Nglish, its changen sign too. Other day I saw a deaf girl fingerspell "g 8" (pointing to her friend) "txt" (pointing to herself, frowning mock serious).
 
Chase said:
It always amuses me how people with poor English skills get such satisfaction blaming their inability or disability on English teachers.

In the first place, teachers with English degrees are in high school (junior high in a few cases) and colleges. If students haven't learned basic skills in their home language by that time for whatever reason, the majority (1) have one or more learning disabilities but have been socially promoted, (2) are usually lacking in other fine art skills as well, and (3) many by then are too hostile to accept any form of classroom learning.

Secondly, English teachers don't make up the rules; they just try to explain them. Rules of grammar are developed over many, many years by the people speaking the language. Even the "simple" languages mentioned in this post which substitute numbers and letters for sounds develop rules . . . or no one would be able to understand anyone else. But substitutions never simpliy language; they always complicate it, like what happened to the workers on the Tower of Babel.

Another thing: Learning has never been restricted to classrooms. That's a fairly recent phenomenon, and in my view a huge mistake and excuse for the lazy. High schools have become little more than elementary schools that pass students along. Likewise, colleges become what high schools once were. It’s all part of a “dumbing” down process (crab theory) which happens when people whine for big government to take over what communities can do far better. The vast majority of educated people are “self-educated.” They learn by reading and doing, not by sitting around complaining because some teachers were mean to them or didn’t take the added time to “draw them out.” Bah! I was always overworked teaching the majority who wanted to learn.

Finally, education has no formal beginning and never ends. I could read before I started school because no one could stop me. Before I had enough money saved to go to college, I’d already self-educated myself past the basics to be able concentrate on the subjects which were a challenge. And the real challenge was NEVER QUIT, no matter how little money there was and no matter what problems life threw in the way.

Lack of education or a difficulty in learning are not the fault of other people--especially not people who earned a degree or two in English. That’s just whining from people who want instant skills and knowledge without putting in the time and effort required.
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I will have to agree with this one. I think that was how I mastered English despite being in an oral-only environment without any resources growing up by self-education.
 
Right, Shel. Self education rules!

deafskeptic said:
I remember one kid on WoW calling me on my extensive vocabulary on chat because I used the word loathe and he asked me about my age. He said I should use little words so kids his age could understand me. I was like I knew that word when I was 14. I get both grammar nazis and kids singling me out for my grammar and vob. I can't win. :P

Now I understand why some guilds prefer older players.
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This comes back to language as label and adjusting your language to the group you want to fit in with... My granddaughter, who has an extensive vocabulary and reads all the time, just told me she never lets any of her peers or teachers know either of these two things about her because she does not want to be pegged as a nerd or a geek.

In America: football players are cheered; academic majors are jeered.
 
Berry said:
WOW!

What amazes me is that every poster, no matter how diametrically opposed to other posters: Has at least one good, solid, point to make.

Here is one inescapable fact: Language lables you; Pigeon holes you; Puts you in your own little corner and furthermore people will leave you there.

There is no one way to use English, ASL, or any other language. Your best bet is to be able to talk the way the peeps talk whose respect you looking for. I don't talk the same way with my grandson and his dawgs as I do with the old hippies at the artist group, or the thinkaholics at my old chess club: The same with my spellen.

And yes, leet is not only changing Nglish, its changen sign too. Other day I saw a deaf girl fingerspell "g 8" (pointing to her friend) "txt" (pointing to herself, frowning mock serious).
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Yeah. When I'm on wow, I might say PWND!! or lol a lot in chats but I'd never say that in a formal essay unless the context calls for it. I might use it in a creative writing class about kids who play vid games. I wrote a parody of leet speak in the forums once. The thread where I posted my leet speak was a parody of all the whiney threads in that forum. Too bad the thread got deleted. I hate leet speak even though I've been known to use a few leet expressions.

When I'm with my parents, I'd not be as informal in English with either of my parents.
 
Berry said:
Right, Shel. Self education rules!




This comes back to language as label and adjusting your language to the group you want to fit in with... My granddaughter, who has an extensive vocabulary and reads all the time, just told me she never lets any of her peers or teachers know either of these two things about her because she does not want to be pegged as a nerd or a geek.

In America: football players are cheered; academic majors are jeered.
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I noticed.

The ironic thing is that people who play games like WoW tend to be nerdy or geeky.
 
shel90 said:
I will have to agree with this one. I think that was how I mastered English despite being in an oral-only environment without any resources growing up by self-education.
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Nods, I'm the same way myself. I'll read things even if they're a challenge for me. My father and I used to fight over me reading books that he thought were too hard for me. I think Jame Joyce's book Ulysses is a challenge for me.

I remember reading Moby Dick years go and he said the book is very complex. He didn't think I understood it. I said I did understand it but sometimes I have to reread the book to pick up on stuff I missed the first time around. The last time I visited my family I read part of War and Peace. I must confess I didn't finish it.

When I came over last summer, I read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. I remember thinking that his book prolly didn't go over well with Christians.

My dad said to me he couldn't understand why I'd read a such a dull book. I don't think history is dull to me. Granted, I'd prefer more recent editions but that's what I had to read at my parents home.

He keeps telling me that most people are into TV and MTV and that I'm too much the intellectaul when it comes to cartoons. I take it he's never read Doonsbury (I don't read doonsbury) or other comics like Neil Gaiman's Sandman series.
 
:afro::rl:ha, grammar nazis. I misspell werds on purpose just to piss em off

my fav is skool:rl:
 
I think ones that act like a moron is younger kid playing the games, not a nerd or geek folks.

Anyhow, I do think school is responsible for some knowledge that I can get. I mean I can't understand everything outside the classroom and I need guide on some knowledge. I mean in high school for one geometry class, I remember playing card games more than learning basics needed for geometry. Whose fault is it? Mine? There's no way I can learn algebra, geometry, etc. outside classroom since I learn the best from guide and watching other people solving the problems. Books for math would just make the matters worse for me.

Same goes with English, I did my part by reading the books. But it's useless if no one explain me the rules.

You can't win the game without understand the rule (luck does not count). I think that's where it's teachers' job is all about.
But not all school do good job at that. I WAS one of the student who wanted to learn but never got what I needed. But instead I was just left in the dark because I was too "advanced" for my class. When I compared myself to other students in public school instead of school for the deaf, I am just average. I barely survived the real world by reading and pay attention to all facts that people talk about. Still, that wasn't enough, in my opinion.

I mean, it does not make sense doing the task without understanding "why." Geez, I even remembered one time dorm supervisor told me to stop asking "why" in each of my question, but to ask "what." I was stunned at her such attitude. That's the attitude they have shown me, you are better off not asking or try to understand. I am still pissed off at that situation. She was lucky that it does not destroyed my curiosity still.

Now I got a urge to go and read the book, for some reason.
 
Doug5 said:
:afro::rl:ha, grammar nazis. I misspell werds on purpose just to piss em off

my fav is skool:rl:
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LOL, my 10 grade Deaf English teacher was the same way as you. She'd use improper English on purpose.
 
deafskeptic said:
Nods, I'm the same way myself. I'll read things even if they're a challenge for me. My father and I used to fight over me reading books that he thought were too hard for me. I think Jame Joyce's book Ulysses is a challenge for me.

I remember reading Moby Dick years go and he said the book is very complex. He didn't think I understood it. I said I did understand it but sometimes I have to reread the book to pick up on stuff I missed the first time around. The last time I visited my family I read part of War and Peace. I must confess I didn't finish it.

When I came over last summer, I read Gibbon's Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire. I remember thinking that his book prolly didn't go over well with Christians.

My dad said to me he couldn't understand why I'd read a such a dull book. I don't think history is dull to me. Granted, I'd prefer more recent editions but that's what I had to read at my parents home.

He keeps telling me that most people are into TV and MTV and that I'm too much the intellectaul when it comes to cartoons. I take it he's never read Doonsbury (I don't read doonsbury) or other comics like Neil Gaiman's Sandman series.
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Honestly, I would love to be an intellectual like you and I am trying to read more intellectual books. :)

When I was younger, I read complex books but puberty hit me and I got into MTV, boys, fashion and all the pop culture stuff.

Maybe I should buy those books you mentioned and see if I get the hang of it!
 
Heh, try to read the book "The Man in the Iron Mask." I never got to finish that book. Whew! It was tough when I tried to read it when I was a younger. I guess I can give it a try, now that I am older.
 
Who to blame of the future of english vocab, is it not?
 
the mistake is assuming that those speak "proper inglish" is more intelligent or more educated than those who dont
 
VamPyroX said:
It's all because of the "No Child Left Behind" crap.

Seriously, people are becoming too flexible with how kids are taught.

When I do emails or post in the forums, I type with the best grammar and spelling as I can (with a few exceptions like "cuz" instead of "because"). Other than that, I use slang because I'm speedtyping... on AIM, etc.

When my parents use their cell phones to send me text messages, it's difficult for them to do it with proper spelling or grammar. So, they use abbreviations. 1 out of 50 times, I'll have to think for a moment to figure out what they're trying to say... other than that, they do just fine. :)
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Yeah, I agree with you 110%. I do extacly the same thing too.
 
Silentwolfdog said:
Heh, try to read the book "The Man in the Iron Mask." I never got to finish that book. Whew! It was tough when I tried to read it when I was a younger. I guess I can give it a try, now that I am older.
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Ah, yes. I remember I seen the movie about it. It a good movie. I remember the original movie and the book the " The Man in the Iron Mask" was a damn good book.
 
Silentwolfdog said:
I mean, it does not make sense doing the task without understanding "why." Geez, I even remembered one time dorm supervisor told me to stop asking "why" in each of my question, but to ask "what." I was stunned at her such attitude. That's the attitude they have shown me, you are better off not asking or try to understand. I am still pissed off at that situation. She was lucky that it does not destroyed my curiosity still.

Now I got a urge to go and read the book, for some reason.
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I used to say the only thing I ever learned in school was also the last time I ever asked a teacher a question: Her reply was to tell the class, "Oscar Wilde once said a fool can ask more questions in five minutes than a wise man can answer in a lifetime."

When I repeated that to a friend on mine in a college cafeteria a professor stood up and said, "It was not Oscar Wilde who said that."

So now I know the only thing I ever learned in school was wrong.

And I still don't know who said it.
 
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