Do We Need Proper Inglish and Spelling?

[Doug5]

there is only one thing thats important when communicating, the people interacting understanding one another.

A good example is people texting one another. Its such a pita typing on a phone keypad there are all kinds of abbreviations for common phrases, like pita pain in the ass, lol laugh out loud, using numbers for words like 4 for, 2 to, or hybrids like h8 hate, g8 great etc.

I wonder if english is going to devolve into something simpler

 

[shel90]

I read somewhere that the English vocabulary of children in the 1950s was larger than children of today. I wish I can remember where I read that. It was interesting...

 

[omegaman]

Yeah, I read that children have poor vocabulary today. If I recall, it is because teachers don't teach kids how to spell correctly. Instead, children are taught to spell how they hear words.

 

[Doug5]

I have heard that too. English teachers getting all into a tizzy about that.

 

[jasin]

I think its a bunch of bull personally! We dont need half these words we have -- they just keep adding them to the dictionary to say they've added them. Basic English for example, it consit of only 500 words and it's more then enough to comincate with.

 

[Doug5]

they need all the hard werds for the spelling bee's

 

[VamPyroX]

It's all because of the "No Child Left Behind" crap.

Seriously, people are becoming too flexible with how kids are taught.

When I do emails or post in the forums, I type with the best grammar and spelling as I can (with a few exceptions like "cuz" instead of "because"). Other than that, I use slang because I'm speedtyping... on AIM, etc.

When my parents use their cell phones to send me text messages, it's difficult for them to do it with proper spelling or grammar. So, they use abbreviations. 1 out of 50 times, I'll have to think for a moment to figure out what they're trying to say... other than that, they do just fine.

 

[jillio]

It's all because of the "No Child Left Behind" crap.

Seriously, people are becoming too flexible with how kids are taught.

When I do emails or post in the forums, I type with the best grammar and spelling as I can (with a few exceptions like "cuz" instead of "because"). Other than that, I use slang because I'm speedtyping... on AIM, etc.

When my parents use their cell phones to send me text messages, it's difficult for them to do it with proper spelling or grammar. So, they use abbreviations. 1 out of 50 times, I'll have to think for a moment to figure out what they're trying to say... other than that, they do just fine.

**nodding** It has become about test performance rather than learning.

 

[deafskeptic]

It's all because of the "No Child Left Behind" crap.

Seriously, people are becoming too flexible with how kids are taught.

When I do emails or post in the forums, I type with the best grammar and spelling as I can (with a few exceptions like "cuz" instead of "because"). Other than that, I use slang because I'm speedtyping... on AIM, etc.

When my parents use their cell phones to send me text messages, it's difficult for them to do it with proper spelling or grammar. So, they use abbreviations. 1 out of 50 times, I'll have to think for a moment to figure out what they're trying to say... other than that, they do just fine.

Nods. When I post I will correct my grammar if not always my spelling (I'm really bad at spelling) but when I'm using IMs or playing WoW, it's harder for me to edit my grammar in chat. Most people don't call on it even when I leave out ings when it's needed.

Once some grammar nazi in my guild at WoW kept correcting other hearing's grammar and I typed rolls her eyes at grammar nazi. He pounced on my grammatical errors and told me in guild chat he couldn't believe I would make such an error. I put him on ignore and one hearing person told me hell nobody uses correct grammar in chat so who cares? I don't need some hearing @$$ making fun of my grammar after all the work I spent on my English skills. I get As in English even when I'm the only deaf in that class. So there.

 

[Reba]

I think its a bunch of bull personally! We dont need half these words we have -- they just keep adding them to the dictionary to say they've added them. Basic English for example, it consit of only 500 words and it's more then enough to comincate with.

I hope that you're being facetious.

 

[Reba]

I read somewhere that the English vocabulary of children in the 1950s was larger than children of today. I wish I can remember where I read that. It was interesting...

I believe it. I think kids aren't reading as many books now, so they aren't expanding their vocabulary.

 

[Reba]

It's all because of the "No Child Left Behind" crap.

Seriously, people are becoming too flexible with how kids are taught.

When I do emails or post in the forums, I type with the best grammar and spelling as I can (with a few exceptions like "cuz" instead of "because"). Other than that, I use slang because I'm speedtyping... on AIM, etc.

When my parents use their cell phones to send me text messages, it's difficult for them to do it with proper spelling or grammar. So, they use abbreviations. 1 out of 50 times, I'll have to think for a moment to figure out what they're trying to say... other than that, they do just fine.

I believe there's nothing wrong with using slang and abbreviations in the proper context, such as the examples you gave. The problem is when kids (and adults) don't know when and how to use proper vocabulary and grammar. College students should know without telling them that "lol" doesn't belong in an MLA research paper.

 

[shel90]

I believe it. I think kids aren't reading as many books now, so they aren't expanding their vocabulary.

Yea..the article stated that because of TV, video games, and lack of respect towards education are some of the reasons.

There were even statistics comparing the numbers...it was a huge difference.

 

[deafskeptic]

I believe it. I think kids aren't reading as many books now, so they aren't expanding their vocabulary.

I remember one kid on WoW calling me on my extensive vocabulary on chat because I used the word loathe and he asked me about my age. He said I should use little words so kids his age could understand me. I was like I knew that word when I was 14. I get both grammar nazis and kids singling me out for my grammar and vob. I can't win. :P

Now I understand why some guilds prefer older players.

 

[Reba]

I remember one kid on WoW calling me on my extensive vocabulary on chat because I used the word loathe and he asked my age. He said I should use little words so kids his age could understand me. I was like I knew that word when I was 14. I get both grammar nazis and kids singling me out for my grammar and vob. I can't win. :P

Now I understand why some guilds prefer older players.

That kid at WoW is wrong. People should include some words that might be new to the other people in their crowd. That doesn't mean talking "above" everyone else, or sounding like an English lecture. But sprinkling a few "advanced" words into a conversation stretches the vocab brain "muscle" and makes it stronger. That's how we learn--exposure to new words, new ideas, and new experiences!

Suppose grownups spoke "baby talk" to kids all the time. How would the poor kids learn their language? (Same with sign languages. How would CODA kids learn to become fluent in signing if their parents just used "baby signs"?)

 

[shel90]

That kid at WoW is wrong. People should include some words that might be new to the other people in their crowd. That doesn't mean talking "above" everyone else, or sounding like an English lecture. But sprinkling a few "advanced" words into a conversation stretches the vocab brain "muscle" and makes it stronger. That's how we learn--exposure to new words, new ideas, and new experiences!

Suppose grownups spoke "baby talk" to kids all the time. How would the poor kids learn their language? (Same with sign languages. How would CODA kids learn to become fluent in signing if their parents just used "baby signs"?)

I agree with u there, Reba.

 

[Chase]

It always amuses me how people with poor English skills get such satisfaction blaming their inability or disability on English teachers.

In the first place, teachers with English degrees are in high school (junior high in a few cases) and colleges. If students haven't learned basic skills in their home language by that time for whatever reason, the majority (1) have one or more learning disabilities but have been socially promoted, (2) are usually lacking in other fine art skills as well, and (3) many by then are too hostile to accept any form of classroom learning.

Secondly, English teachers don't make up the rules; they just try to explain them. Rules of grammar are developed over many, many years by the people speaking the language. Even the "simple" languages mentioned in this post which substitute numbers and letters for sounds develop rules . . . or no one would be able to understand anyone else. But substitutions never simpliy language; they always complicate it, like what happened to the workers on the Tower of Babel.

Another thing: Learning has never been restricted to classrooms. That's a fairly recent phenomenon, and in my view a huge mistake and excuse for the lazy. High schools have become little more than elementary schools that pass students along. Likewise, colleges become what high schools once were. It’s all part of a “dumbing” down process (crab theory) which happens when people whine for big government to take over what communities can do far better. The vast majority of educated people are “self-educated.” They learn by reading and doing, not by sitting around complaining because some teachers were mean to them or didn’t take the added time to “draw them out.” Bah! I was always overworked teaching the majority who wanted to learn.

Finally, education has no formal beginning and never ends. I could read before I started school because no one could stop me. Before I had enough money saved to go to college, I’d already self-educated myself past the basics to be able concentrate on the subjects which were a challenge. And the real challenge was NEVER QUIT, no matter how little money there was and no matter what problems life threw in the way.

Lack of education or a difficulty in learning are not the fault of other people--especially not people who earned a degree or two in English. That’s just whining from people who want instant skills and knowledge without putting in the time and effort required.

 

[Banjo]

It always amuses me how people with poor English skills get such satisfaction blaming their inability or disability on English teachers.

In the first place, teachers with English degrees are in high school (junior high in a few cases) and colleges. If students haven't learned basic skills in their home language by that time for whatever reason, the majority (1) have one or more learning disabilities but have been socially promoted, (2) are usually lacking in other fine art skills as well, and (3) many by then are too hostile to accept any form of classroom learning.

Secondly, English teachers don't make up the rules; they just try to explain them. Rules of grammar are developed over many, many years by the people speaking the language. Even the "simple" languages mentioned in this post which substitute numbers and letters for sounds develop rules . . . or no one would be able to understand anyone else. But substitutions never simpliy language; they always complicate it, like what happened to the workers on the Tower of Babel.

Another thing: Learning has never been restricted to classrooms. That's a fairly recent phenomenon, and in my view a huge mistake and excuse for the lazy. High schools have become little more than elementary schools that pass students along. Likewise, colleges become what high schools once were. It’s all part of a “dumbing” down process (crab theory) which happens when people whine for big government to take over what communities can do far better. The vast majority of educated people are “self-educated.” They learn by reading and doing, not by sitting around complaining because some teachers were mean to them or didn’t take the added time to “draw them out.” Bah! I was always overworked teaching the majority who wanted to learn.

Finally, education has no formal beginning and never ends. I could read before I started school because no one could stop me. Before I had enough money saved to go to college, I’d already self-educated myself past the basics to be able concentrate on the subjects which were a challenge. And the real challenge was NEVER QUIT, no matter how little money there was and no matter what problems life threw in the way.

Lack of education or a difficulty in learning are not the fault of other people--especially not people who earned a degree or two in English. That’s just whining from people who want instant skills and knowledge without putting in the time and effort required.

Well said. Education is everywhere, not just in the classroom.

 

[jillio]

It always amuses me how people with poor English skills get such satisfaction blaming their inability or disability on English teachers.

In the first place, teachers with English degrees are in high school (junior high in a few cases) and colleges. If students haven't learned basic skills in their home language by that time for whatever reason, the majority (1) have one or more learning disabilities but have been socially promoted, (2) are usually lacking in other fine art skills as well, and (3) many by then are too hostile to accept any form of classroom learning.

Secondly, English teachers don't make up the rules; they just try to explain them. Rules of grammar are developed over many, many years by the people speaking the language. Even the "simple" languages mentioned in this post which substitute numbers and letters for sounds develop rules . . . or no one would be able to understand anyone else. But substitutions never simpliy language; they always complicate it, like what happened to the workers on the Tower of Babel.

Another thing: Learning has never been restricted to classrooms. That's a fairly recent phenomenon, and in my view a huge mistake and excuse for the lazy. High schools have become little more than elementary schools that pass students along. Likewise, colleges become what high schools once were. It’s all part of a “dumbing” down process (crab theory) which happens when people whine for big government to take over what communities can do far better. The vast majority of educated people are “self-educated.” They learn by reading and doing, not by sitting around complaining because some teachers were mean to them or didn’t take the added time to “draw them out.” Bah! I was always overworked teaching the majority who wanted to learn.

Finally, education has no formal beginning and never ends. I could read before I started school because no one could stop me. Before I had enough money saved to go to college, I’d already self-educated myself past the basics to be able concentrate on the subjects which were a challenge. And the real challenge was NEVER QUIT, no matter how little money there was and no matter what problems life threw in the way.

Lack of education or a difficulty in learning are not the fault of other people--especially not people who earned a degree or two in English. That’s just whining from people who want instant skills and knowledge without putting in the time and effort required.

 

[Reba]

... High schools have become little more than elementary schools that pass students along. Likewise, colleges become what high schools once were.

That's a fact.

I have a collection of my dad's elementary school papers, text books, and report cards. In elementary school they were reading the same literature that is used in undergraduate college classes now. Oh, I forgot to mention. My dad went to a one-room school house in Indiana farm country, during the Depression, barefoot and wearing overalls.

Apparently his education was good enough for him to later challenge test out of the first two years of college, and get his bachelor's degree in electrical engineering.

When I started college, I was able to take (and pass) CLEP tests in all my first year general courses (English, math, humanities, science) and get a head start on my program.

It's even worse now. I interpret in public schools and college, so I see what's happening there. As I'm interpreting a college class, often I get this feeling that, hey, I learned this in junior high.

The kids now have the benefit of the internet for easy research, informational TV programs on the History and Discovery channels, and instant news on cable, and yet they are so clueless about so many things. It's so sad.

... The vast majority of educated people are “self-educated.”

Yep. I remember as a kid reading everything in the children's public library, and then getting "special" permission to access the grown-up library (back in the days when they were separated).

I used to think my grandmother had a college degree because she was so well-read in the classics, and knowledgeable in all the fine arts. Nope. She just attended local public girls' high school. But she read and read, and visited museums and art shows. Every week I'd visit her and look at the "coffee table" size art books she had checked out from the library. Then, we played "Scrabble" together. Uh, oh! That's a vocabulary building game.

Finally, education has no formal beginning and never ends. I could read before I started school because no one could stop me. Before I had enough money saved to go to college, I’d already self-educated myself past the basics to be able concentrate on the subjects which were a challenge. And the real challenge was NEVER QUIT, no matter how little money there was and no matter what problems life threw in the way.

Lack of education or a difficulty in learning are not the fault of other people--especially not people who earned a degree or two in English. That’s just whining from people who want instant skills and knowledge without putting in the time and effort required.

I'm totally with you. Codger-to-codger, of course. Heh, heh.