Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

BecLak said:
DC, It appears that in KN opinion it does. He thinks all those raised oral should be considered 'hearing'. For those who are late-deafened and wish to return to being able to hear as much as possible like before....it is understandable and they would most benefit from CIs or HAs - but for those born deaf who were raised oral (like you and me) should be given the right to identify as Deaf if we so choose. We were guinea-pigs of the audists. As for KN's personal choice - it is to assimilate himself into the hearing world and refer to himself as HoH. That's is his choice. But he should not enforce his ideologies on others. Just as we respect people's personal choices, then he should respect ours. He likely sees me as a 'd/Deaf wanna-be'. I am not a 'wanna-be' I AM severely-deaf. I was born so. I now identify as Deaf, just like you, because I have finally I found where I belong.
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Where did I say those raised "oral" should be considered as hearing? A pretty far fetched attempt on reaching when I have never stated or even implied such a thing. And how am I "enforcing" my ideologies? I have an opinion, just like you. You don't have to agree. Just like I disagree with your false assessment saying that I think those raised "oral" are hearing.

Disagreeing with someone else's opinion is fine and that should be as far one should go when it comes to debating or making an argument, instead of making false statements about a person they're attempting to counter.
 
Grummer said:
for a long long time, i was a wanna-be-hearing, then for a long long time i was a wanna-be-Deaf, now then journey is far from the end, but I have a much better life map drawn up for myself (and many d/Deaf who wants to be at complete ease with who we are) that i am now WANTING to be Deaf, not a wanna-be, I dont want to pretend, i dont need to strive for greatness, I already AM, I already am Good enough. That is all I need.

This is what Beclak meant in the bold.

DeafCaroline you may be a 'hoh' in audiological sense and behaved like a HoH person in the past and you had admitted before repeatedly that you were unhappy and are in more peace with yourself when you finally found a place (inside and outside yourself) socially and personally as a Deaf person.Just because Kokonut PREFERS to use, (he really does prefers it, he just playing with words to avoid a boot from AD, admit it Kokonut) and would at any rate persuade to go back there, you don't have to, its YOUR choice, not his. There are arguements yes, but arguements are NEVER with a single ball like 'sport' there are reserves and there are practice and there are club ball, and international ball. What im saying here is, you Don't have to follow 'logic' because many 'logic' is informed by ideology, 'facts' is Never Neutral either. they make is seem so. IF you FEEL Deaf , like more Deaf than a 'yearning, suffering, isolated hearie-wanna-be and know that's not what you aspire to, then you already know the truth, you are really culturally and personally described as Deaf, not neccessarily 'self-described', for that matter, (if there was a book let me know if this fits/proves the query) that its the HTOD in the past that made up the term and forced it mersimised/indoctrinated their young Hearing wearing children into thinking they are half-hearing (when really really deaf) and falsifying their hopes and dreams to become hearing when they grow up as adults (I was there)...its all lies...just as the American Dream is all lies, not everyone get the same chances yet they say it is all equal- It's like...;"Bullshit!, dont you know it? dont you know it!"

thats for everyone else as well
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Um, I've said many times I'm hoh. Just as well I've said I'm deaf, too. I don't have problems in how you see yourself or the perspectives you're seeing it as. Mine is different from yours, obviously. So is my life. But I'm not exactly sure why you are so upset and have this loathing over my opinions and who I am (or so it appears) and feel the need to throw expletives. You have your opinions but I certainly do not get upset. If you're confident in what you believe or opine, that should be enough. Same for me.
 
kokonut said:
Um, I've said many times I'm hoh. Just as well I've said I'm deaf, too. I don't have problems in how you see yourself or the perspectives you're seeing it as. Mine is different from yours, obviously. So is my life. But I'm not exactly sure why you are so upset and have this loathing over my opinions and who I am (or so it appears) and feel the need to throw expletives. You have your opinions but I certainly do not get upset. If you're confident in what you believe or opine, that should be enough. Same for me.
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kokonut said:
You define yourself whatever makes you comfortable.
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so.... why the bitterness toward "deafhood" label? hypocrisy much?

*shrug*
 
kokonut said:
Where did I say those raised "oral" should be considered as hearing? A pretty far fetched attempt on reaching when I have never stated or even implied such a thing. And how am I "enforcing" my ideologies? I have an opinion, just like you. You don't have to agree. Just like I disagree with your false assessment saying that I think those raised "oral" are hearing.

Disagreeing with someone else's opinion is fine and that should be as far one should go when it comes to debating or making an argument, instead of making false statements about a person they're attempting to counter.
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What sort of gibberish is that? I read more than just words on a page. I read tone and implications too. Up until this post, you have been very clear. One post you will take the assimilation stance; the next post you say the exact opposite - in order to confuse readers so that you can remain in vagueness. This post is laughable. You are 'contributing' to a thread, without truly contributing at all. Your target is the weak-willed. Well, you are barking up the wrong tree here. Give it up Kokonut.
 
Why does an otherwise interesting thread devolve into Kokonut, Kokonut, Kokonut?
 
BecLak said:
What sort of gibberish is that? I read more than just words on a page. I read tone and implications too. Up until this post, you have been very clear. One post you will take the assimilation stance; the next post you say the exact opposite - in order to confuse readers so that you can remain in vagueness. This post is laughable. You are 'contributing' to a thread, without truly contributing at all. Your target is the weak-willed. Well, you are barking up the wrong tree here. Give it up Kokonut.
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I've said it before. It wasn't just a recent thing, either. :dunno:

Not exactly sure about your comment on the assimilation stance and what I've posted. I suppose you're talking about the hearing culture and deaf culture stances that I take?

I contribute, sure. A matter of perspective on my part. You might disagree but yours is an opinion. Others see it differently. After all, this is a discussion forum.
 
Kokonut is on my ignore list, and certainly his ploy is to make me ask the Admin to close this thread, and I'm NOT going to AND everyone else is pissed off with him, rightly so!. If the Admin had any sense, they would ban him for a short time, but no, they wont 'because rules are rules' and 'he hasnt broken any'...Kokonut, we have said before and again and again (Just like say that 'again and again to us) we dont want Your so-called contribution, you are at truth - simply trying to incite flames. Stop being a cyber arsonist, grow up and start respecting other peoples' opinions and if you dont like their views, go somewhere else, like go jump in the lake for God's sake.
 
As Jiro said;

so.... why the bitterness toward "deafhood" label? hypocrisy much?

*shrug*

I share that sentiment too, this bitterness is putting everyone off.
 
Berry said:
Why does an otherwise interesting thread devolve into Kokonut, Kokonut, Kokonut?
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This is the Exactly the same question im asking, WHY WHY WHY that HOH-advocate is making a nuisence of himself. We would rather talk about something else, not his stupid, repetitive anti-cerebal slurs. And he knows it.
 
Paddy Ladd's definition of H/hearing

I thought it would be useful to share this from Paddy Ladd's book.

hearing/Hearing: The lowercase 'hearing' is a term originating in the Deaf community to describe non-Deaf people (including 'deaf' people). I have sometimes capitalised this to indicate an additional dimension expressed by Deaf people - for example, 'Hearing world' or 'Hearing Ways', akin to the capitalisation of 'White' or 'Male' by Black and feminist theoreticians.


Note how he labels 'deaf' people as 'hearing'. No wonder these debates get so muddled!!! It gets particularly confusing when an individual chooses a label for themselves and the same word gets used differently by another person, or the other person uses a different word to label you.

For example, I label myself 'deaf' to distinguish myself from a 'hearing' person. But a Deaf person may label me as 'hearing' because I'm not part of the Deaf community. And this labelling by Deaf people got my back up as I don't use the world 'hearing' to describe myself. But when I read carefully, I discover that the word 'hearing' is being used in a different way. I'm using it to distinguish myself from hearing people, Paddy Ladd is using it to distinguish me from Deaf people. We saw another example of this earlier between DeafCaroline and kokonut with the use of the word 'hoh'.

The important thing is to find the label you want to use to describe yourself and to be happy with it, accepting that other people may apply a different label to you. For me, I'm happy with the label 'deaf' even if I may get called 'hearing' or 'hoh' by others. I'm secure about being 'deaf' rather than 'Deaf'. At this point in time, though people may want to put these labels on me, I'm neither a Hearing wanna-be or a Deaf wanna-be. I'm just me.
 
I'm busy nowdays, but managed to come up with this. In case it have some relevance in this thread:

How much integrity do deaf people have?

At places like Gallaudet, deaf people have a lot of integrity(at least, it looks like so), while other places, it's next to none. Becoming stupid as hearing people, is another word for loosing integrity as a Deaf person, as I see it.

So how do we keep that integrity? Some suggestions:

1. Look at what's said, then who the messenger is, not who the messenger is, then what's said.

2. Value your thinking and experience. This is why I cheerish deaf ethnocentrism, because I feel it's too litle of it. Once it becomes too much or dominating, it's something else.

3. Get educated. Any education helps, because knowledge is real power, that money can't buy you.

4. Deal with the fact that many hearing people will get upset if deaf people are equal or over them. Don't try to avoid it at any cost. That fear from hearing people have many consquences, too many to mention here. One also have to remember the reaction is human, and deaf people aren't any better, because we are also human beeings. The difference is that we aren't in their position.
 
Also, I have a paper here written by a christian that argue with secular people about abortion. He complains about having to translate his religious thinking to a way of thinking that secular people can accept, while secular people don't have to translate their thinking to a religious way of thinking.

He had a very good point there, and it reminds me of deaf people having to explain stuff to hearing people in a hearing way, while it's less common to expect hearing people to explain their reasoning to us(deaf) in our way.
 
:hmm: this is intriguing, flip...

I was just brainstorming and thought of this in relation to your second paragraph of your most recent post - I'm thinking about idea of "power-over" and how it relates to ideas and thoughts...."majority" group has power-over, they have the so-called significance and therefore their positions are considered to be the "reasonable" and what is understood....so explanation from that pov is allowable, believable....marginalized people/groups have to explain more and their pov is less likely to be considered.

I liked how you mention about knowledge being so powerful - that has been a tool historically used by anyone trying to oppress another - African-based slavery times in the U.S. is one example comes to mind.

I think knowing both oneself and one's community - one's heritage - is part of integrity. To know what people have gone though in the past and what people face now.
 
Oddly enough using a variety of terms with mutually contradictory meaning hardly leads to clarity re deaf vs Deaf vs.DEAF.
I have consistently said I am bilateral deaf-both ears- which to me is silence. Seems apparently some "deaf' people can hear -audiologically- because they self define as being "cultural" deaf and use ASL. BSL et al. Oddly enough don't recall much disussion whether and who is "really blind"?

Does sociology "trump" physical conditions?

Into this interesting confluence are "deaf militants".


Hardly dull to say the least.

Which leads to the interesting point-how does this excursion in sociology lead to: how to deal with deafness?

Implanted Sunnybrook/Toronto Advanced Bionics-Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Ok, labels: seeing how everybody has different preferences, what word do I use to describe a person with a profound hearing loss? deaf? Deaf? HOH? Hearing impaired?

It doesn't matter which word because SOMEONE will come along and argue the label, not the message of what was said.

I could say deaf, he would say HOH, I could say HOH, he would say deaf. It's still the same damn thing. To be deliberately obtuse and disagreeable, out of spite, is gettin' old fast.
 
True, there will always be arguments as to labels. But no matter how much we may differ in our perceptions of what that label means, it boils down to how the individual views him/herself.

As for getting back to the topic of the thread, putting aside labels, how do we integrate with mainstream society without assimilating and therefore invalidating how we choose to identify ourselves??

What are practical ways or means in which we can make things happen?
 
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