Do we have a challenge ahead of us to avoid becoming Hearing?

I wonder if that makes me a Deaf Militant?
 
Berry said:
I have not yet read Harlan Lane's book. So I am going to go straight off what you have posted here.

First off Bottesini said it perfectly clear -- Cochlear Implants in and of themselves have no meaning -- They are just pieces of technology.

As I said in my last post in this thread. People ascribe meanings to things including Cochlear Implants.

One of the reasons people ascribe meanings to things is because they have goals. How well something fulfills or obstructs those goals largely determines the meanings ascribed to the thing. In this case the thing is a piece of technology.

As mentioned in that prior post a car means a mode of transportation to and from work to a working person trying to support a family. To a teenager it means freedom of movement. To a military person it means the ability to move, and to supply, troops.

The audist community sees the Cochlear Implant as bringing them one step closer to their goal of "curing" deafness and thereby making deaf people "whole" and "normal". They have no respect for, nor concern for, the Deaf Community, the signing community, neither do they place any value on the benefits the Deaf Community has to offer the hearing community. They see no value in signed languages. If the audists had their way every deaf person would be forced to wear a Cochlear Implant and signing would not be allowed. They want D/deaf people to become hearing people. To an audist the Cochlear Implant means they will be able to save Deaf people from a second class life.

If you see nothing wrong with the above paragraph then you are an audist.

One thing the audist will never admit to is that the only thing that relegates D/deaf people to second class status is the audist insistence on focusing on the person's inability to hear rather than focusing on the skills, abilities, and achievements, of the Deaf person.

The Deaf Community, and those who understand, value, and support the Deaf Community, believe that it has much of value to offer to the world and society as a whole. They believe the social values exemplified by the Deaf Community are important and should not be lost. They believe that signed languages are beautiful and should never be extinguished.

They realize that when D/deaf people become hearing people everything they value and love about the Deaf Communities and the signed languages used by them will disappear forever. Valuable, important ways of life will be gone forever. Every thing they stood for, every thing they believed in -- Including equality and respect for differences -- Will be gone. Forever.

Looked at from this viewpoint the simple fact is yes! The Cochlear Implant is an instrument of genocide to the Deaf Community.

If you can understand the validity of this viewpoint then we can have a meaningful conversation.

If you cannot it then further discussion is pointless.
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Yet, there are Deaf people who wear cochlear implants.
 
kokonut said:
You're omitting the fact about the primary purpose of a CI and that is to allow the user to acquire sound and utilize that opportunity for oral AND aural developments. CI is implemented when hearing aids cannot do the job. Do you wear a hearing aid?
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I have that oral and aural development. What part of that do you not get, among all of us who have posted as such?
 
kokonut said:
Yet, there are Deaf people who wear cochlear implants.
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Because they want the environmental sounds they cannot get with a HA (assuming you are talking about those who choose a CI, not those whose parents chose one for them. Even if you are referring to those who have a CI because it was chosen for them, there can be a number of reasons behind that, one being that HAs are useless for them, among many others.) We have parents on this board that have said so, and with good results, GrendelQ being one.

My goodness, are you really discounting the hundreds of thousands of d/Deaf people who grow up and learn English and speak without a CI ?
 
AlleyCat said:
Because they want the environmental sounds they cannot get with a HA (assuming you are talking about those who choose a CI, not those whose parents chose one for them. Even if you are referring to those who have a CI because it was chosen for them, there can be a number of reasons behind that, one being that HAs are useless for them, among many others.) We have parents on this board that have said so, and with good results, GrendelQ being one.

My goodness, are you really discounting the hundreds of thousands of d/Deaf people who grow up and learn English and speak without a CI ?
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Not discounting anything. Where have I discounted such a thing?

The fact remains, there are Deaf people who do wear CIs whether it's for "environmental sounds" or to help improve speech and listening skills. Just the same as there are Deaf people who do wear hearing aids either for its "environmental sounds" or to use it for speech and listening skills.
 
AlleyCat said:
I have that oral and aural development. What part of that do you not get, among all of us who have posted as such?
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Either you have worn a hearing aid back then and are not using it now, or you are wearing a hearing aid now and have been since you were little. Or not worn a hearing aid at all. I have no idea what your hearing loss is like.
 
kokonut said:
This is the first time I'm seeing this question unless I missed it elsewhere. I wear a hearing aid in my right ear only. Left ear is no good.
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Geez, even our deafness is on opposite sides. :P
 
kokonut said:
Not discounting anything. Where have I discounted such a thing?
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When you say "You're omitting the fact about the primary purpose of a CI and that is to allow the user to acquire sound and utilize that opportunity for oral AND aural developments. CI is implemented when hearing aids cannot do the job."

When it's statistically proven that those with HAs can acquire sound and gain oral/aural development. I just got done saying so. And how many followed after me saying the same ??

:roll:

kokonut said:
The fact remains, there are Deaf people who do wear CIs whether it's for "environmental sounds" or to help improve speech and listening skills.Just the same as there are Deaf people who do wear hearing aids either for its "environmental sounds" or to use it for speech and listening skills.
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The bolded - you just said what I said.

Erk. You wanna play games, do it on your own. Buh-bye.
 
AlleyCat said:
When you say "You're omitting the fact about the primary purpose of a CI and that is to allow the user to acquire sound and utilize that opportunity for oral AND aural developments. CI is implemented when hearing aids cannot do the job."

When it's statistically proven that those with HAs can acquire sound and gain oral/aural development. I just got done saying so. And how many followed after me saying the same ??

:roll:

The bolded - you just said what I said.

Erk. You wanna play games, do it on your own. Buh-bye.
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Because the discussion was about CI (i.e. "Yet, there are Deaf people who wear cochlear implants.")....and not about hearing aids in the beginning. The point was that there are culturally Deaf people who do wear CIs. Nothing I've said discounted those with hearing aids or without on developing speech or speech and auditory development. No game here. You continue see things on what you want to see in your own odd perverted way about me. I'm not even sure what the big deal you have on what I said about CI but it's certainly a fact that when a hearing aid can no longer do the job then getting a CI can help fill that role. Maybe if you stop being so angry all the time you won't have these conniption fits.
 
Not in the slightest bit angry. Simply put, I don't let people spew nonsense. Unfortunately, you fail to factor in that many CI children are implanted when HAs CAN do the job. It's been said so, so, so, so many times over in this forum. My sincere apologies, for you can't win with nonsense every time. Maybe read some posts, do some research, etc. for a change so you would know what you write of.
 
AlleyCat said:
Not in the slightest bit angry. Simply put, I don't let people spew nonsense. Unfortunately, you fail to factor in that many CI children are implanted when HAs CAN do the job. It's been said so, so, so, so many times over in this forum. My sincere apologies, for you can't win with nonsense every time. Maybe read some posts, do some research, etc. for a change so you would know what you write of.
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AlleyCat, no disrespect, but I've never, ever met or heard of someone who has gotten a CI while HAs were "doing the job" and I've met hundreds. If you can hear the range of speech sounds required for understanding spoken language with an HA, you are nowhere near eligible for a CI. I don't know of any of the people with CIs on this forum who received a CI despite being able to hear just fine with HAs. If the goal is hearing, I can't imagine anyone who could hear with HAs choosing to possibly obliterate all of that native ability to hear and have surgery to provide an alternative access to sound.
 
GrendelQ said:
AlleyCat, no disrespect, but I've never, ever met or heard of someone who has gotten a CI while HAs were "doing the job" and I've met hundreds. If you can hear the range of speech sounds required for understanding spoken language with an HA, you are nowhere near eligible for a CI. I don't know of any of the people with CIs on this forum who received a CI despite being able to hear just fine with HAs. If the goal is hearing, I can't imagine anyone who could hear with HAs choosing to possibly obliterate all of that native ability to hear and have surgery to provide an alternative access to sound.
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"doing the job" as in what? making people hearing? Either they are deaf people or now they are hearing people. You say that CIs dont make deaf people hearing people More confusion.

See this is why this cycle keeps going. Just accept that deaf people have developed good speech skills and used HAs to develop good oral skills. CIs arent needed for that. It is all an innate ability based on each individual.
 
AlleyCat said:
Not in the slightest bit angry. Simply put, I don't let people spew nonsense. Unfortunately, you fail to factor in that many CI children are implanted when HAs CAN do the job. It's been said so, so, so, so many times over in this forum. My sincere apologies, for you can't win with nonsense every time. Maybe read some posts, do some research, etc. for a change so you would know what you write of.
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You certainly sound angry if not that certainly it's done in a petulant way.

I've already pointed out that when a hearing aid CANNOT do its job then a CI can be the next step. Note the bold stressing the word "when."
 
shel90 said:
"doing the job" as in what? making people hearing? Either they are deaf people or now they are hearing people. You say that CIs dont make deaf people hearing people More confusion.

See this is why this cycle keeps going. Just accept that deaf people have developed good speech skills and used HAs to develop good oral skills. CIs arent needed for that. It is all an innate ability based on each individual.
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Shel, AlleyCat said that many children, even those we've seen on this forum, are implanted with CIs when HAs can already "do the job." Maybe we are using different definitions of what the job of an HA or a CI is. I don't think it changes the person, I think they are very different tools used to access sound, and they are neither interchangeable nor in competition.

Kids get CIs to make spoken language audible. That's the job that HAs don't do for children who are eligible to be implanted.
 
Hard to believe. I am bilateral deaf since December 20,2006. I became "suitable for consideration" of getting a Cochlear Implant which OHIP ( Ontario Health Insurance Plan) covered the entire cost. Hospital care, surgeon fees, audi services/mapping, Internal/external "hardware". Cost then-2007 was $55,000.00 CDN.

I have mentioned before Sunnybrook/Toronto has implanted 850 persons over a 19 year period with the rejection rate for one reason or other at 60%. I am one of the 850.

The fact remains- I am deaf with a Cochlear Implant-why this is a problem is beyond me.

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
Berry: as your ideological supposition re: society bifurcated into 2 discrete "entities" termed- hearing & deaf overlooks all persons who became deaf after birth.

Whether anyone agrees with Harlan Lane et al consider what the Ontario Deaf Community in the book" You and Your Deaf Child" 4th revised edition- January 2000- page 25 said. "Comprehensive presentation of the latest findings and insights into the world of signing Deaf individuals-their language and thought.education. employment,culture and society." I have the book from Bob Rumball Centre for the Deaf. Toronto Ontario.
I have read the entire book-A Journey into the DEAF-WORLD and am unpersuasive of parts of it-especially Cochlear:wave: Implants.

It has been noted before-- what does every person consider when re getting a Cochlear Implant ( if suitable)?

This is just a forum of various thoughts re Hearing Aid/Cochlear Implants /ASL not an exercise in "dogmatic Sociology-culture".

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
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