Do animals (such as pets) have souls?

[Jiro]

So this means that animal is not capable of higher reasoning (stated this way earlier).
The animal does not know the consequences involved in what they are doing. It may be trained to do this, but it doesn't understand why.

On the other hand, the difference between us and them is we can be trained. Dog can be taught not to eat Handy's birthday cake, but it doesn't know why it can't eat her cake since it's for the surprise later.

We can see the birthday cake and want to eat it - but we also know that if we eat it before Handy got to do the normal birthday routines on it, we will have a guilty conscience.

well - that is a different subject. Having a soul does not require a higher level of reasoning. I mean - look at comatose patient. or an adult with infantile mind. Do we say they have a soul or not?

 

[AndyE9503]

So this means that animal is not capable of higher reasoning (stated this way earlier).
The animal does not know the consequences involved in what they are doing. It may be trained to do this, but it doesn't understand why.

On the other hand, the difference between us and them is we can be trained. Dog can be taught not to eat Handy's birthday cake, but it doesn't know why it can't eat her cake since it's for the surprise later.

We can see the birthday cake and want to eat it - but we also know that if we eat it before Handy got to do the normal birthday routines on it, we will have a guilty conscience.

So you equate reasoning to soul.

 

[naisho]

well - that is a different subject. Having a soul does not require a higher level of reasoning. I mean - look at comatose patient. or an adult with infantile mind. Do we say they have a soul or not?

That's what some others said. Soul to them is from their animals experiencing or showing happiness.

So you equate reasoning to soul.

Said it way earlier, in like first 5 posts in this topic.

 

[Jiro]

That's what some others said. Soul to them is from their animals experiencing or showing happiness.

oic. that's fine. For me - I don't see it that way. I see it the same way Na'vi does.

 

[AndyE9503]

Said it way earlier, in like first 5 posts in this topic.

Ahh I forgot about that post. Well that is were we differ. I believe animals have their own type of reasoning for what they do. Its what seperates the species. We are more concerned with minor consequences like your cake example. While animals are more concerned with life and death consequences. Some pets are able to reason out certain things by how their owners react. For example my dog use to take food off the counter when no one was looking, but it no longer happens because he knows he will get locked out of the house if he does. Now I no longer have to worry about it. Taught or not it shows basic reasoning.

 

[Steinhauer]

I am curious about animals such as pets having souls or no souls like humans being having souls. This is only out of pure curiosity, and this has nothing to do with any specific religion. Please, NO religious/religion discussions allowed. Stay on the topic of pets having souls or no souls and why do you think that way or this way. I really would appreciate it very much if y'all would please cooperate in this thread because I would very much like for my thread to stay open and not have it locked down by a mod just because someone decides to disrespect my rule (also AllDeaf's rule as well) in this thread, which has been bolded so you can see what the rule is. Simple.

Do animals (such as pets) have soul like people do or are they soul-less? Pick yes or no and please post in the thread below why you think this way or that way. Thank you. Remember, this is only out of pure curiosity. I want to see how many people think animals have souls and how many people think that animals don't have souls, and I want to see what their reasons are. Don't get religious please and don't get into any debates over religions and don't bring any religions or religious topics into my thread. I mean it. Thank you for your cooperation and consideration.

You are asking a religious question but in the same token telling no one to discuss religion

Animism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cats_in_ancient_Egypt

 

[naisho]

Ahh I forgot about that post. Well that is were we differ. I believe animals have their own type of reasoning for what they do. Its what seperates the species. We are more concerned with minor consequences like your cake example. While animals are more concerned with life and death consequences. Some pets are able to reason out certain things by how their owners react. For example my dog use to take food off the counter when no one was looking, but it no longer happens because he knows he will get locked out of the house if he does. Now I no longer have to worry about it. Taught or not it shows basic reasoning.

"Higher" reasoning. Not basics that primates and chimpanzees can comprehend. I tend to think of that more as instinct.

We know when we jump out of a window in the car, we can potentially die, break our bones, end up in the hospital, anything that prevents us from doing it the first time.

A dog may do it the first time then realize not to do it again because of the consequences after. It can't comprehend why it shouldn't jump out of the car a first time.

Reference below:

 

[AndyE9503]

"Higher" reasoning. Not basics that primates and chimpanzees can comprehend. I tend to think of that more as instinct.

We know when we jump out of a window in the car, we can potentially die, break our bones, end up in the hospital, anything that prevents us from doing it the first time.

A dog may do it the first time then realize not to do it again because of the consequences after. It can't comprehend why it shouldn't jump out of the car a first time.

Reference below:

You call it higher I call it minor. Cause does it really matter in life or death if you eat someone elses birthday cake.

Then why have I never had my dog jump out the window when I am driving him around. Or better yet why will he not jump off a cliff when we are in the woods and he sees a deer or other animal at the bottom. He gets excited and wants to get down to chase it but he wont jump to his death for it.

There are plenty of videos of people doing stupid things so your video of that dog is irrelevant

 

[Steinhauer]

"Higher" reasoning. Not basics that primates and chimpanzees can comprehend. I tend to think of that more as instinct.

We know when we jump out of a window in the car, we can potentially die, break our bones, end up in the hospital, anything that prevents us from doing it the first time.

A dog may do it the first time then realize not to do it again because of the consequences after. It can't comprehend why it shouldn't jump out of the car a first time.

Reference below:

Cetacean intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although Dr. Lilly has suggested that Dolphins and other cetaceans have intelligence either equivalent or superior to humans with average level intelligence

 

[naisho]

It does matter since it shows the animal is capable of understanding WHY not to do a particular errand or not. We as humans can see why we shouldn't cross a sidewalk when it's red. We know we can die from doing that.

You can train a dog to help the deaf/blind to not cross the streets when it's a red or there are cars. Would it understand that getting hit by cars equals death? Unless it has been hit before, I honestly believe not.

The birthday cake is just a minor example that it doesn't understand why it should not eat it, other than the owners giving it a scolding or you locking it out. It doesn't know the food has a purpose because it can't reason it..?

 

[naisho]

Cetacean intelligence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Cetacean order, Orca species - got an explanation to why Tilki killed Dawn Brancheau? "Accident"?

 

[Steinhauer]

It does matter since it shows the animal is capable of understanding WHY not to do a particular errand or not. We as humans can see why we shouldn't cross a sidewalk when it's red. We know we can die from doing that.

You can train a dog to help the deaf/blind to not cross the streets when it's a red or there are cars. Would it understand that getting hit by cars equals death? Unless it has been hit before, I honestly believe not.

The birthday cake is just a minor example that it doesn't understand why it should not eat it, other than the owners giving it a scolding or you locking it out. It doesn't know the food has a purpose because it can't reason it..?

No .... we have to be taught/trained why not to cross first.

"Remember kids, look both ways"

 

[naisho]

No .... we have to be taught/trained why not to cross first.

"Remember kids, look both ways"

Uhh, but we can see that crossing with traffic equals death. Unless you're telling me you don't see it..

Age isn't the factor here. Being able to see it is the point.

 

[AndyE9503]

We are not getting anywere so I am going to bow out of here. Plus it is 4am. Time for sleep

 

[Steinhauer]

Uhh, but we can see that crossing with traffic equals death. Unless you're telling me you don't see it..

Age isn't the factor here. Being able to see it is the point.

I had a dog that was able to figure out not to do some things all on its own.


Besides, there are dolphins right now cursing the day BP was born .. all in dolphin language:


Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons' - Times Online


http://www.eurocbc.org/page158.html

http://www.thealexandertrust.com/Dolphin_Therapy/dolphin_therapy.html

 

[naisho]

Besides, there are dolphins right now cursing the day BP was born .. all in dolphin language:


Scientists say dolphins should be treated as 'non-human persons' - Times Online

http://www.eurocbc.org/page158.html

That's cool and all.. but honestly I think that's for another topic. Unless you are saying dolphins can think like humans, deviant behavior resulting in death of humans and trainers by tamed (key word) species of the cetacean order (not just Brancheau's accident) have shown that they won't think twice before killing someone. Show me they intended to murder them first, then you got a point.
Same with Travis the chimp.

 

[Steinhauer]

That's cool and all.. but honestly I think that's for another topic. Unless you are saying dolphins can think like humans, deviant behavior resulting in death of humans and trainers by tamed (key word) species of the cetacean order (not just Brancheau's accident) have shown that they won't think twice before killing someone. Show me they intended to murder them first, then you got a point.
Same with Travis the chimp.

Same with Ted Bundy.

 

[naisho]

Same with Ted Bundy.

What's Ted gotta do with this?

 

[naisho]

You mean he's not a human! Oh no..

 

[Steinhauer]

What's Ted gotta do with this?

he is human and would kill without thinking about it twice. Just saying killing is not an inherent trait of wild animals.

Here are wild and untame animals protecting species not in their "pack"

Dolphins rescue surfer from shark - TODAY People - People: Tales of survival - TODAYshow.com

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=3&art_id=qw954179821353B213

I may need help finding a very specific story. There was a crippled boy who had a tramatic accident and his parents took him to an open aquarium (open for dolphins to come and go).

One dolphin befriended the boy. When the kid eventually began to come out of his shell, the dolphin never came back.