Difference between Audism & Racism

AJWSmith said:
Reading the discussion here on this thread is helping me enormously to clarify my own thoughts. I now know that I need to further clarify what I wrote earlier (see final paragraph in bold):



However if a person, Deaf or Hearing, imposes their values on another (especially if the other is different) then this is evidence that that person is acting from a position of superiority, even if they verbally deny it and loudly claim that they treat others as equals. An example would be if I said that I totally respect the man in a wheelchair and think of him as an equal, but then to say (or think) that actually he would enjoy life far more if he could walk because it has given me so much enjoyment. What I have done, most likely unconsciously, is transferred what I value personally and imposed that value on another person. There's nothing wrong in me valuing my ability to walk (or a person valuing their hearing), but a line has been crossed when I insist that another should value it.​
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that there, what you just wrote is an excellent example, and it is a common one inside the politics of disability, this is basicaly what it is.according to those with a fully functional body tend to consider a lack of bodily function seem to equte to lesser enjoyment or less quality of life.
You basically nailed it without even realising it. AND this is the basis of Audism! read it again...that same words You wrote, just perceive it in a different way, then you'd get that spark.
I think maybe you are digging in too deep to a hole needlessly, just relax, we cant learn Everything in a big hurry, sometimes we have to accept learn takes on its own pace, experieces is like a picture with a 1,000 words, we all see it, but not all of us see the same thing, and we can talk for years and years about the very same thing (that picture), but there's a limit we all know we have to leave that picture on the wall and do arrears, live life, then come back to it again, and yet same time, its not a cross in the church, its just a picture - but a meaningful one., (just same as that cross is a meaningful one to some).

hope this helps.
 
I hope it is OK to duplicate a post I've just made on another thread. It's very important to me to understand audism and I'm still a bit confused. See below where I try to explain my confusion. I do hope someone will be able to clarify things for me...

jillio said:
I don't think audist is intrinsically negative. It is simply a term that describes a way of thinking and perceiving. Hearing perspective means the same thing.:dunno2: It only becomes a negative if that way of thinking is causing you harm. It doesn't cause harm to the the person who thinks as an audist does, so it is not negative in that application.

Nor is it really even negative when used to describe the negative effects it has had on the D/deaf. It is still just a description of a way of thought and action. It indicates a difference in the way that someone who is hearing and aurally auditorily based perceives the world and the way they approach what they perceive as a problem.

There is no value judgement inherent in the term "audism". That has to be inserted by the person who is interpreting the word's effect. But the effect on someone is not necessarily correlated to the meaning.
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I found this thread and notice that it overlaps with the thread I created a few days ago (my thread: http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/94254-difference-between-audism-racism.html)

Basically I'm confused by how the word "audism" is being used. Jillio here is saying that it's not a negative judgmental label, but I have always thought it was. For example, here's Tom Humphries original definition:
The notion that one is superior based on one's ability to hear or behave in the manner of one who hears. (Humphries 1977)​

There is a difference between believing that we are different and equal, or believing that we are different and I'm/you're superior. There's nothing wrong in being different (I'm deaf, you're hearing), but it is wrong to believe that you're a superior human being because of your difference (e.g. ability to hear, colour of skin).

Maybe we need two words. One to describe the discriminatory superior attitude of hearing people, and another to describe how hearing shapes a person's way of thinking and perceiving ("hearing perspective"?). It's inevitable that hearing shapes the way a person thinks & perceives the world, but it's not inevitable that a person will always believe they're superior because they're hearing. After all, aren't you an example of this jillio?

(link to jillio's thread: http://www.alldeaf.com/our-world-our-culture/93940-i-have-question-3.html#post1913599)
 
In summary, does:

audism = hearing perspective?
or​
audism = hearing prejudice?​
 
Is it more accurate to suggest the "excuse of audism" that "some deaf/Deaf/DEAF person not to deal with the fact of their deafness?

As noted many time - I am bilateral DEAF-since December 20, 2006

Implanted A B Harmony activated Aug/07
 
AJWSmith said:
In summary, does:

audism = hearing perspective?
or​
audism = hearing prejudice?​
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Pretty pushy perspective, so it is prejudice. There is a military term, "extreme prejudice," and it is not good, either. :P
 
AJWSmith said:
In summary, does:

audism = hearing perspective?
or​
audism = hearing prejudice?​
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Not exactly.

audism= perspective that the ways of the hearing population are the best ways and superior to the ways of the Deaf population

*Note: some deaf people also have audist views

Audism can, and often does, lead to discrimination and prejudice.

I think Deaf people are more likely to be prejudice against hearing people because of their personal experiences.
 
I've had another personal insight into this topic.

If I use the term 'hearing perspective' to describe the worldview of a hearing person. To me this is a neutral term and it's meant to describe how a hearing person growing up will have a particular perspective on the world as a result of having 100% (or thereabouts) hearing. A perspective shaped and reinforced by being surrounded by other people who also have normal hearing. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with having ears that work properly, nor choosing a way of life that utilizes this functionality.

But I've realized that there are likely problems if a deaf person who doesn't have normal hearing tries to live his/her life according to a hearing perspective. If his/her hearing loss isn't too bad, then it can work. But if the hearing loss stops that person from interacting as a "normal" hearing person, then it gets problematic. Many deaf people grow up believing that they are broken and defective because they cannot be like the hearing people around them. They may be able to hear sounds, but they cannot hear speech well enough. And if the hearing loss is so severe that oral interaction with hearing people is impossible, then it is downright damaging to the deaf individual to live according to a hearing perspective as they are totally isolated.

This is an illustration of how the hearing perspective which is good and proper for a hearing person becomes bad and damaging for a deaf person. There's no intent to cause harm, but harm is nevertheless done. There is no direct prejudice being inflicted on a deaf person, but he/she is still a victim of the hearing perspective. It's not that the hearing perspective is inherently "bad" - it's just that it damages people who don't have the hearing functionality to benefit from it, like walking in shoes that are the wrong fit thus crippling yourself.

I hesitate to call this "audism" as the harm isn't a direct result of a person acting in a superior manner, though I can see that the end result on the victim is the same.
 
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AJW - what you said: "But if the hearing loss stops that person from interacting as a "normal" hearing person, then it gets problematic. Many deaf people grow up believing that they are broken and defective because they cannot be like the hearing people around them. They may be able to hear sounds, but they cannot hear speech well enough. And if the hearing loss is so severe that oral interaction with hearing people is impossible, then it is downright damaging to the deaf individual to live according to a hearing perspective as they are totally isolated."

Problematic, isolation, broken, defective - those feelings are due to how hearing people think and react to deaf people. Hearing perspective is not neutral if it results in such negatives.
 
DeafCaroline said:
AJW - what you said: "But if the hearing loss stops that person from interacting as a "normal" hearing person, then it gets problematic. Many deaf people grow up believing that they are broken and defective because they cannot be like the hearing people around them. They may be able to hear sounds, but they cannot hear speech well enough. And if the hearing loss is so severe that oral interaction with hearing people is impossible, then it is downright damaging to the deaf individual to live according to a hearing perspective as they are totally isolated."

Problematic, isolation, broken, defective - those feelings are due to how hearing people think and react to deaf people. Hearing perspective is not neutral if it results in such negatives.
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Valid point DeafCaroline - those outcomes are bad. It's neutral if everyone has full hearing. But as we know, not everyone does. A properly neutral perspective is one that doesn't harm anyone. I suppose for most people, all they want is a perspective (i.e. a way of thinking, perceiving & behaving) that doesn't harm themselves. So it's a bit of a double whammy for a deaf person to adopt a perspective that DOES harm themselves, isn't it?!!

:ty:Thanks for your input. I'm finding this (and other) threads on audism very helpful in sorting out my own perspective.
 
A little off topic......

But I want to inject that speech and hearing have a total separation.
Witness the fact that there are perfect hearing kids that do not talk.
There are many levels of deafness, so not everyone is in the same boat.
However, being able to hear speech is not a requirement, if a person with hearing lose can then more power for that person.
Those that make the effort, with years of training and therapy, can speak intelligently that the hearing world can communicate with this deaf person.
Because the deaf person can not hear the speech of the hearing world, and H.I./C.I. don't help that much, it is required for the deaf person to become an expert lipreader.
The result is the deaf person being able to totally understand the hearing person and using his/her own voice reply.
As I said, out takes years of effort and help but it is truly worth the benefit of being successful.
 
rolling7 said:
A little off topic......

But I want to inject that speech and hearing have a total separation.
Witness the fact that there are perfect hearing kids that do not talk.
There are many levels of deafness, so not everyone is in the same boat.
However, being able to hear speech is not a requirement, if a person with hearing lose can then more power for that person.
Those that make the effort, with years of training and therapy, can speak intelligently that the hearing world can communicate with this deaf person.
Because the deaf person can not hear the speech of the hearing world, and H.I./C.I. don't help that much, it is required for the deaf person to become an expert lipreader.
The result is the deaf person being able to totally understand the hearing person and using his/her own voice reply.
As I said, out takes years of effort and help but it is truly worth the benefit of being successful.
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Are you an expert lipreader who can totally understand the hearing person?

I've been lipreading for 40 years and I'm still not so expert I can totally understand hearing people. If I were, my name would not be Caroline, it would be Sue Thomas, F.B.Eye.
 
DeafCaroline said:
Are you an expert lipreader who can totally understand the hearing person?

I've been lipreading for 40 years and I'm still not so expert I can totally understand hearing people. If I were, my name would not be Caroline, it would be Sue Thomas, F.B.Eye.
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AND.......
What is stopping you?

I've put 50+ years into it and yes, I do consider myself an expert at lipreading.

Any, hearing or deaf, person who wants to be, can be.
 
rolling7 said:
A little off topic......

But I want to inject that speech and hearing have a total separation.
Witness the fact that there are perfect hearing kids that do not talk.
There are many levels of deafness, so not everyone is in the same boat.
However, being able to hear speech is not a requirement, if a person with hearing lose can then more power for that person.
Those that make the effort, with years of training and therapy, can speak intelligently that the hearing world can communicate with this deaf person.
Because the deaf person can not hear the speech of the hearing world, and H.I./C.I. don't help that much, it is required for the deaf person to become an expert lipreader.
The result is the deaf person being able to totally understand the hearing person and using his/her own voice reply.
As I said, out takes years of effort and help but it is truly worth the benefit of being successful.
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So basically what you're saying is that if the deaf person cannot speak or does not read lips well, that deaf person did not put in the efforts or try hard enough to be "successful."

Oh...:fart:
 
deafbajagal said:
An example would be the many times my hearing mother would quip about how much of a better mother I could be to my own children if I were hearing and didn't subject them to resort to using sign language. She often would point out ways that my hearing loss impedes my abilities to supervise, to communicate through spoken English, etc. Also, she feels I'm missing the joys of motherhood because I cannot hear their laughter, etc.
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That's really sad that your mom feels that way.
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Your mother is crazy. So is mine. *hugs*
 
deafbajagal said:
So basically what you're saying is that if the deaf person cannot speak or does not read lips well, that deaf person did not put in the efforts or try hard enough to be "successful."

Oh...:fart:
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I don't make judgments for others and I don't judge their judgement.
A person, regardless, must do his/her very best in all of life. We can't all be the BEST IN THE WORLD but we all can give our best. A deaf or any person has equal rights to the best of everything in America BUT it is NOT given to the person, you have to put in the effort to go get it, to make it happen. Michael Jordan is the best basketball player in the worl BUT no one gave him that title, he earned it the hard way.
 
Wirelessly posted (droid)

Rolling7, did your parents make you feel this way because it sucks.
 
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