Designing A Hearing Baby

[rick48]

If u all take great offense to that..oh well.

Don't take offense, just glad you're not teaching my kids.

 

[shel90]

Don't take offense, just glad you're not teaching my kids.

Ok..that was a weird statement..

 

[rick48]

"Speech is not mandatory for communication. Have you been in that oralist box of yours so long that you are trapped in there?"


We all understand that but it is for oral communication which is what we were discussing. Try and keep up with us.





"Why? Do you cite your sources? My statements are based on actual experience in the field of education. I see it on a daily basis. I am directly involved with deaf students. I am directly involved in data collection. I am stating facts gained through many years of experience and education. They do not require citation. It is called sythesized knowledge, something that you are quite obviously lacking in. And of course, you once again resort to personal insults in regard to shel, as well as false assumptions. Keep it up and your manner of attack will result in another thread being closed."

Blah blah blah, more double talk and non-answers. "pay not attention to that man behind the curtain." You cannot cite any facts because you do not have them. All you have is your misguided agenda. Well you better get used to cochlear implants and mainstreaming for they are hear to stay and not going away. More and more kids are being implanted every year and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Funny how you expect everyone else to accept your personal experiences as gospel truth but you discount everyone else's. I have more personal experience with cochlear implants then you ever will and what my wife has forgotten (and that ain't much) you have yet to learn. What exactly qualifies you as an expert in the area of cochlear implants, so far nothing you have cited.

Funny, you should be the last one to complain about personal insults and BTW no thread was closed because of any comment either by me or about me can you say the same?

 

[jillio]

Thank you..those records of what happened with the CI and the child before coming to my school arent accessible. I would need a good reason to get access to them and the process is very time consuming. U know how busy being a teacher is especially a teacher who has to modify the lessons to make them visually accessible for deaf/hh children. I have been bringing work home to plan my lessons cuz I dont have enough time in the day to do it all. It is tough so of course, I have priorities as described on my job duties and I have to meet those priorities first even it means bringing them home. My job is not to investigate the reason for the failure of the CIs. I find it funny that so many assumptions were made about me. Wow..

If I get "I dont knows" from the parents or the school's audiologists it either means they dont know themselves or they dont want to share the real reasons.

Many of those people have forgotten that I have put posts of children who have benefitted from their CIs...seems like they dont want me to say anything about those who didnt. It makes me wonder why.

Hey, you're welcome. Bullies irritate me!

 

[rick48]

Bullies irritate me!

Bullies who are pompous arrogant know-it-alls who believe their way is the only way irritate me even more.

I'll match you one for one anytime.

 

[jillio]

So are yours, stop making up lies about her.

Oh, puleeze, rick! Your daughter is prelingually deaf, just for the record. Does that satisfy you? Either way,she's deaf. Get a grip on yourself!

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Because, I know. Look at me, I am deaf and I don't hold it against my parents that I don't get the possibility to hear.

buahahaha. "look at me"... sorry this is the silliest argument so far!!

I don't give damn about what YOU think about YOURSELF.
because I for one if I found out my parents had a chance to make me hear better than THAT (what I have now) and didn't take that chance, I would be mad as hell.

There goes your wonderful theory "because look at me".

Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

buahahaha. "look at me"... sorry this is the silliest argument so far!!

I don't give damn about what YOU think about YOURSELF.
because I for one if I found out my parents had a chance to make me hear better than THAT (what I have now) and didn't take that chance, I would be mad as hell.

There goes your wonderful theory "because look at me".

Fuzzy

I did not say just " because look at me ". You added that to urself. Re-read my post again and tell me EXACTLY what it said. Please ?

 

[jillio]

"Speech is not mandatory for communication. Have you been in that oralist box of yours so long that you are trapped in there?"


We all understand that but it is for oral communication which is what we were discussing. Try and keep up with us.





"Why? Do you cite your sources? My statements are based on actual experience in the field of education. I see it on a daily basis. I am directly involved with deaf students. I am directly involved in data collection. I am stating facts gained through many years of experience and education. They do not require citation. It is called sythesized knowledge, something that you are quite obviously lacking in. And of course, you once again resort to personal insults in regard to shel, as well as false assumptions. Keep it up and your manner of attack will result in another thread being closed."

Blah blah blah, more double talk and non-answers. "pay not attention to that man behind the curtain." You cannot cite any facts because you do not have them. All you have is your misguided agenda. Well you better get used to cochlear implants and mainstreaming for they are hear to stay and not going away. More and more kids are being implanted every year and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Funny how you expect everyone else to accept your personal experiences as gospel truth but you discount everyone else's. I have more personal experience with cochlear implants then you ever will and what my wife has forgotten (and that ain't much) you have yet to learn. What exactly qualifies you as an expert in the area of cochlear implants, so far nothing you have cited.

Funny, you should be the last one to complain about personal insults and BTW no thread was closed because of any comment either by me or about me can you say the same?

Look who is talking about an agenda! That's funny.

What , exactly qualifies you as an expert inanything, rick? Deaf education, CI, HA, liguistic issues, psychological issues, social issues? Yet you seem tothink htat simply because you have managed to form an opinion on that for which you have no knowledge, experience, or education, we should all take your opinion as gospel.

You have a definate way of entering into a discussion and taking it straight to the gutter. You are completely incapable of civility or of intelligent discussion. And I do have the facts. It is you who has nothing to back up your opinions, and that is exactly whay you resort to childish tactics and bullying behavior when you are called on your fallicious beliefs. You have nothing else with which to counter.

I noticed that you have quoted movie dialogue in two of your most recent posts. Perhaps if you spent more time in educational pursuits intstead of memorizing lines from mindless entertainment, you would be able to discuss a topic with knowledge and forethought.

 

[jillio]

"Speech is not mandatory for communication. Have you been in that oralist box of yours so long that you are trapped in there?"


We all understand that but it is for oral communication which is what we were discussing. Try and keep up with us.

No we weren't. We were discussing designing a hearing baby and CI. Please try to keep up. You are the only one focused on oral communication, and we all know the reason for that. And I would not be so certain that nothread was ever closed because of yoru comments, and your insulting remarks. Once again, you are speaking without benefit of all the knowledge you need to make such assertions.





"Why? Do you cite your sources? My statements are based on actual experience in the field of education. I see it on a daily basis. I am directly involved with deaf students. I am directly involved in data collection. I am stating facts gained through many years of experience and education. They do not require citation. It is called sythesized knowledge, something that you are quite obviously lacking in. And of course, you once again resort to personal insults in regard to shel, as well as false assumptions. Keep it up and your manner of attack will result in another thread being closed."

Blah blah blah, more double talk and non-answers. "pay not attention to that man behind the curtain." You cannot cite any facts because you do not have them. All you have is your misguided agenda. Well you better get used to cochlear implants and mainstreaming for they are hear to stay and not going away. More and more kids are being implanted every year and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

Funny how you expect everyone else to accept your personal experiences as gospel truth but you discount everyone else's. I have more personal experience with cochlear implants then you ever will and what my wife has forgotten (and that ain't much) you have yet to learn. What exactly qualifies you as an expert in the area of cochlear implants, so far nothing you have cited.

When you can match my experience, I will give you credit for it. To date, you have been unable to do so.
Funny, you should be the last one to complain about personal insults and BTW no thread was closed because of any comment either by me or about me can you say the same?

Why yes, I can say that. You are the one that takes the thread to a place it never goes without your input. You are an instigator, and an ignorant and pompous one at that.

 

[jillio]

Bullies who are pompous arrogant know-it-alls who believe their way is the only way irritate me even more.

I'll match you one for one anytime.

You're projecting.

 

[rick48]

Why yes, I can say that. You are the one that takes the thread to a place it never goes without your input. You are an instigator, and an ignorant and pompous one at that.

Eh... what was that a few posts back about resorting to personal insults?

No, I am just someone who you can't talk down and has the experiences you can't refute and you can't stand that.

Match experience, let's see I've raised a child with a cochlear implant 24/7/365 for over 18 years and been actively involved with ci people for almost 20 years. You can't even understand the fact that for profoundly deaf people the loss of residual hearing is a non-issue as it is the very reason why they are eligible for cochlear implants. Don't need credit from you for it is worthless.

nitey-night

PS Still waiting to learn about that surgical procedure that makes deaf children hearing. Also how we made our hearing daughter deaf through lingusitic restrictions.

 

[Maria]

See, this is where you show - again - that you have the wrong idea about CI. One cannot choose the CI over a HA. When a HA works, there's no need for a CI. And the normal procedure is still that a HA has to be used first, and when it's obvious that there's no benefit, THEN a CI can be considered.
So please. READ about CI, instead of just accepting Deaf "facts" about CI....

Where did I state about choosin' the CI over a HA ? HA don't require a knife. CI requires a knife. And, I am against CI because of usin' a knife on a baby or toddler ( still a baby ). And, what's more - there's evidence that the CI patients did mention that the CI don't work to help them to be able to HEAR. I've seen them statin' that in some threads. You can not say that the CI WILL benefit to help. I don't think it ever will.

Was it an option in that (what year?) time?
Did your parents consider it?

No, my old doctor recommended them to use HA and sent me to a private school to learn how to talk. My parents don't know what to do at that time when they discovered that I was deaf. When I reached the age of 11 years old, my old speech therapist told my parents that I was close enough to become HoH. I was only 11 years old ! Can you imagine that ? I was wearin' HAs ( both ears ) for 8 years. If, I continue wearin' them, then I will become HoH at the age of 21 for sure. That HAs worked and soo much better than CI since I don't like the idea of usin' knife and carvin' up on the baby's head at that tender age. My head is still good and healthy without touchin' nerves. I don't need complications and that will save my parents from heartaches.

SO, you mean it's in the childs interest to learn ASL, so that it can communicate with less than 0.02% of the people that actually do speak the language. It will have a hard time communicating with the other 99.8% that does not speak ASL....
And this is good for the child - because???

Yeah, why not ? And, no I don't think it will have a hard time communicatin' with the other 99.8% that does not speak ASL. All the USA knew about Gally, right ? Gally is a famous college. Many of them are usin' ASL and they supported it as their first language.

And about "Why put CI first before language ?".... you still don't get it... CI allows the child to have a language... Just like ASL.

How is that so ? Care to elborate it ?

Parents that choose for CI for their child, make the choice that the child will grow up with a language. And not a language that is only visual but cannot be written, but a language that can be spoken, written and cued.

If, you believe that.... can you show me a link with a video ? Show me a deaf child with CI and that he/or she can sign, speak and write. I want you to prove it to me. I want to see it with my own eyes.

And - here's the scary part....

Some parents will also use signlanguage with these children...
Scary.... Children with CI that can hear, speak AND sign....
Have you ever thought that possible...????

Now, please... have a look beyond "deafness only"..

Show me a video.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

In whose judgement is it as good as nothing? Especially in the case of infants, it is impossible to predict how well a child will be able to use that residual hearing until they have reached certain developmental stages,

First of all, what is residual hearing? when we talk about CI we talk about minimal amount of residual hearing, practically useless amount. keep it in mind while discussing it.

So, in whose judgement? In common sense judgement. And in the case of infants, it actually is possible to predict how well the child will be able to use that residual hearing- just take a look around. how many of those who were born deaf or with siginificant hearing loss suddenly turned around and become hearing? or even- their hearing improved greatly since then?
with sensori - neural loss, if anything the hearing gets progressively worse with time.

and that requires chronological advances.

And that is exactly why it is so important to implant before these advances happen and finalize.

You can have 2 profoundly deaf individuals who test out to the same degree of residual hearing.....one is able to learn to use that residual hearing through HA and develops speech and listening skills.

He also may hear and speak far better thru CI than thru HA with this residual..

If you implant a child at the age of six months, you do not know that they will not have benefited from HA and AVT.

Either way, the child will hear with CI, highly likely that it will hear much better than with HA. there is no loss in any way.

Shel has no agenda where CI is concerned, other than the effects it has on the education of deaf children. Simply because she points out the negative effects it has had on some of her students doesn't mean that she has a hidden agenda.

So why is she "pointing out"?? innocently? I don't think so. she points out "negative" effects because???
And the supposedly "negative effects" most likely have roots in lack of proper therapy afterwards (after implanting) or too late implanting.

Those who are attempting to portray CI as the miracle cure for deafness are the ones with the agenda.

Those who understand how the CI work NEVER portray it as "miracle cure". On the contrary, all of those who have some basic knowledge about CI point out THIS IS NO CURE, and IT DOES NOT RESTORE hearing.
Actually, it's you and the likes of you who try to portray CI as "miracle cure that fails".

Not careful enough.

more careful than you are, anyway.

Hearing aids do not provide the same level of benefit to everyone, and the fact that you would even make such a false statement is indication of your total lack of knowledge onthe subject

HA absolutely offer, or provide, the same level of benefit - the same way all 60 watts bulb provide the same amount of light to anyone, or the way all Subaru Legacy provide the same horsepower to everyone.
How is one going to use a 60 watt bulb or Subaru Legacy is different matter.

you didn't understood the meaning of what I've said.

Obviously, you are not fluent in ASL. And English can be learned at any time, as well. The second part of your statement is based on an oral/audist philosophy.

No I don't know ASL but this is visual language and while I am not saying it's easy-peasy to learn I am saying it's easier to learn to sign than to learn to differentiate sounds and learn to speak, especially for an adult.

Actually, I speak. I'm not deaf.

Oh, you speak. So you DO communicate the way the hearing people communicate. you don't speak from the totally deaf experience.

But my son who is deaf communictes with hearing people all the time. If necessary, he will speak. He can also use pen and paper, text pager, or interpreter. Voice is not necessary.

Oh I see. Voice is not neccessary but still SOMETHING ELSE is, huh? either pen and paper, or interpreter (who can SPEAK and HEAR) or text pager. Wouldn't it be easier if your son could simply hear and speak more than he does now thanks to CI?
this does not stop him from being culturally deaf. it just simplify life for him.

And I will thank you to keep your sarcastic, insulting remarks regarding non-verbal communication to yourself.

How was I insulting? you told me other ways of coummunication are: vibration, odours, and other. I simply wondered how you can use those while communicating with hearing, non- signing person.

What about it?
I'm assuming that you are unable to answer the question.

Or I see it pointless. anyway, CAN YOU answer?



Fuzzy

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Cloggy:And how do you know a deaf child will not hold it against his parents that he did not get the possibility to hear.?

Maria: Because, I know. Look at me, I am deaf and I don't hold it against my parents that I don't get the possibility to hear.

Your own words, Maria.
"Because I know"?? because you know????
I know because look at me - I am deaf, and...

Fuzzy

 

[Liebling:-)))]

Your own words, Maria.
"Because I know"?? because you know????
I know because look at me - I am deaf, and...

Fuzzy

Simple answer is:

Maria is tryíng to explain that her deafness doesn´t bother her because she is happy what she is but you?




I will be back to make further posts couple of hours later.

 

[Audiofuzzy]

Maria is tryíng to explain that her deafness doesn´t bother her because she is happy what she is but you?

I know that. But that doesn't mean EVERYONE wouldn't mind the parents decision of NOT implanting. Just because Maria doesn't mind doesn't mean all of deaf or HoH people feel the same.
As for me - I accept who I am but if I was offered a chance to hear better I would take it.
How about you - if you had choice, would you rather hear or be deaf? be honest.

Fuzzy

 

[Maria]

Simple answer is:

Maria is tryíng to explain that her deafness doesn´t bother her because she is happy what she is but you?




I will be back to make further posts couple of hours later.

You are correct.

 

[Maria]

Your own words, Maria.
"Because I know"?? because you know????
I know because look at me - I am deaf, and...

Fuzzy

Yeah ! I know ME through my own experience as bein' deaf. I want to share my experience. I prefer " deaf " rather than usin' CI to make me to hear. I don't think it will work that way. CI is NOT my first language. CI is not " hands " to learn ASL. CI is for " voice " and THAT voice is not ASL. That's different.

That ASL is for the eyes to read and understand through the hands, not CI.

I wouldn't be surprised if there's another advanced technology comin' than CI's ... meanin' somethin' else they invent better than CI.. gee, it would be wasted for those who want somethin' new. Let's just say for example:

First, people bought Nintendo and then, when a new game technology comes, there's Playstation and, then Playstation 2 and then 3 and so on... and now there's Wii. The CI will do the same thing in the near future and I think it is foolish to replace somethin' else repeatly in every time when somethin' new comes up. So such a waste ! I think it is too much.

 

[Cloggy]

Yes, cloggy, refusing to allow a child with impaired auditory function access to language through the visual sense to compensate for the impaired auditory sense, even when aided with CI, is linguistically restricting. Do you understand it now?

Who is "refusing".??? If our daughters do not feel the need for sign... who are you to force that upon the child - or parent...