Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

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jillio said:
Dishonesty by ommission. Stil a lie.
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so... how was Caroline able to calculate it?

Bank gave that info for her to calculate with.... no?
 
Jiro said:
2 things - community college and stay home. very cheap.
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Yeah, that's gonna put us back at number 1 in the industrialized nations in math and science scores.:roll:
 
TXgolfer said:
Hence, the choice. These two decided money was more important. Some choose passion. Life is tough that way. Your intern is lucky she has a choice and should make it wisely.
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I am not saying that I'm sad for her to make this choice, but I'm sad because she HAD to make this choice. Our society is set up for us to force us to make this choice. Money is the only way to survive here in America.

Life is tough that way in today's society. Life, in general, does not have to be tough that way.

Does that make sense?
 
Jiro said:
so... how was Caroline able to calculate it?

Bank gave that info for her to calculate with.... no?
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They did not give her the information she specifically asked for. Dishonesty by ommission. A lie.

How was she able to calculate it? She is of high intelligence and has advanced education. She didn't go to a 2 year community college.

And, yet, she is able to understand the position of those whose situation differs from hers. Go figure.
 
Jiro said:
but they didn't because of... I dunno. pride? ego?
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Because CC doesn't offer the same opportunities as a full university.

I'm not saying I disagree with you. Like I've said before, I wish I had gone the CC route and then transferred, but at the time, that just not appear as a valid option to me.

What I'm saying is, if everyone who can't afford college just decided to go to community college (and many many people do, btw), there just simply would not be enough community colleges to support them all.
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am not saying that I'm sad for her to make this choice, but I'm sad because she HAD to make this choice. Our society is set up for us to force us to make this choice. Money is the only way to survive here in America.

Life is tough that way in today's society. Life, in general, does not have to be tough that way.

Does that make sense?
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It makes a tremendous amount of sense.
 
DeafCaroline said:
They agreed...naively and without education.

Ok, here's a story - I am interested in purchasing a beautiful property in Alabama - about 40 acres of timberland filled with deer and wild turkeys. Out of curiosity, I went to RBC USA bank to ask them questions about their mortgages should I consider taking out a loan (I'm not, currently awaiting the sale of my father's estate, I hate debts). Went to the bank, met with the mortgage officer and she explained to me various mortgage options. The one thing she didn't go into detail about was interest, and what percentage of my monthly payments would go to interest. And when I asked, she was vague then I said, please give me your calculator so I can figure this out.

As it turns out, about 90% of my monthly mortgage payments would go to interest. I calculated how much I would have paid in interest versus the entire loan payment. the interest alone would have been twice the amount of the loan itself.

I had to do this on my own in the mortgage officer's office.

Then I looked at her and said - "do I really want to pay $150,000 to pay off a 50,000 loan? No thanks, have a good day."

I got up and walked out. She was speechless. She clearly didn't expect me to be that smart and informed. That's how banks operate, they expect their customers not to be that informed. And they're very reluctant to give exact details on the realities of loan repayments. My boyfriend came with me to that appointment, he was very impressed and said he learned something that day.
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Excellent. More people should be this prepared
 
Daredevel7 said:
I am not saying that I'm sad for her to make this choice, but I'm sad because she HAD to make this choice. Our society is set up for us to force us to make this choice. Money is the only way to survive here in America.

Life is tough that way in today's society. Life, in general, does not have to be tough that way.

Does that make sense?
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Yup
 
TheWriteAlex said:
They really don't have any choice. Tuition and living costs have risen rapidly in the last two decades. Part-time, and even full-time jobs, will not be enough to cover tuition and living expenses. So I guess we should just tell these kids tough luck? Hey, thanks for being a citizen. We gave you 12 years of substandard public education, now go be a cog working on the assembly line? I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a cog, but really, America can do better than that.
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Nah, Like we said earlier....many options. Military, CC/JC, Work Study, Part time student and so on. There are options for those that are motivated to go to school. It may not be the Frat and Keg life they want but it's still an opportunity
 
jillio said:
Yeah, that's gonna put us back at number 1 in the industrialized nations in math and science scores.:roll:
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are you being judgmental and dissing community college students? oh my.... Have you been to community college lately?
 
TheWriteAlex said:
Because CC doesn't offer the same opportunities as a full university.

I'm not saying I disagree with you. Like I've said before, I wish I had gone the CC route and then transferred, but at the time, that just not appear as a valid option to me.

What I'm saying is, if everyone who can't afford college just decided to go to community college (and many many people do, btw), there just simply would not be enough community colleges to support them all.
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that's precisely what community college is for. It's to give you an education at very affordable rate and then you can transfer to any college you wish. Why pay ridiculously high for same course when you can do same thing at community college for cheap?

and I'm not concerned about not having enough community colleges to support them all since there are also many other people who are not interested in colleges. There are trade schools as well. or artisanship.
 
TXgolfer said:
Nah, Like we said earlier....many options. Military, CC/JC, Work Study, Part time student and so on. There are options for those that are motivated to go to school. It may not be the Frat and Keg life they want but it's still an opportunity
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Do you know how much Work Study pays and what the limit on number of hours worked is?

Going part time actually increases the cost of education.

Military isn't an option for the deaf, or for many, many others.
 
Jiro said:
that's precisely what community college is for. It's to give you an education at very affordable rate and then you can transfer to any college you wish. Why pay ridiculously high for same course when you can do same thing at community college for cheap?

and I'm not concerned about not having enough community colleges to support them all since there are also many other people who are not interested in colleges. There are trade schools as well. or artisanship.
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and when you transfer, you generally loose credits, which adds a year to getting a bachelor degree, which, in turn, increases the cost.
 
jillio said:
They did not give her the information she specifically asked for. Dishonesty by ommission. A lie.

How was she able to calculate it? She is of high intelligence and has advanced education. She didn't go to a 2 year community college.

And, yet, she is able to understand the position of those whose situation differs from hers. Go figure.
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people with 2-years community college would know better not to sign this deal too.

she cannot calculate it without having crucial information from banker. was it 4%? 6%? 20%? You need those variables in order to calculate. So... did banker lie to her?
 
Jiro said:
did bank lie to you?
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This is a mortgage officer whose job is to inform me about mortgages, not just to offer me one and tell me what documents I need to supply to qualify for one. When I pressed her on specifics on interests of the loans, she was vague. I had to get the facts myself using HER calculator in HER office in HER bank.

She didn't lie but boy, did she ever try not to inform me about some things that was her obligation as a mortgage loan officer to do. She is obliged by law to answer all questions regarding loans, including the fine print. She did all she could to avoid getting into specifics.

Did she lie? No, did she answer my questions or hedge around them? She hedged around them.
 
Jiro said:
are you being judgmental and dissing community college students? oh my.... Have you been to community college lately?
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Nope. Not at all. Just saying it is not the solution for all as you seem to think it is.

Probably much more often than you have. It is still a community college that offers only 1 year certificate programs and associate degrees.
 
Jiro said:
people with 2-years community college would know better not to sign this deal too.

she cannot calculate it without having crucial information from banker. was it 4%? 6%? 20%? You need those variables in order to calculate. So... did banker lie to her?
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And how would you know they would know better, Jiro?
 
jillio said:
Do you know how much Work Study pays and what the limit on number of hours worked is?

Going part time actually increases the cost of education.

Military isn't an option for the deaf, or for many, many others.
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Texas offers free education for deaf people. Many states VR offer financial assistance. Oh wait... that's taking free money and running away.
 
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