Declaration of Occupy Wall Street

[TXgolfer]

Just a peaceful demonstration.... Nothing to see here

WHDH-TV - Boston Police website hacked

 

[deafskeptic]

But anyway. I tend to think banks got much more than a slap on the wrist. Everyone agrees they should be held accountable for any wrong doing. I was against the bailouts from day one but at least the major banks have paid it back.

While it's good that it was paid back but there still accountablity issues and I don't want a repeat of 2008.
Evidence please? Did most of them end up in jail for white collar crimes? I can cite cases where those who enaged in questionable practices got away with little punishment and accountably.
While there are expectations to the rule like Eric M. Fleedlander who is said to have committed one of the largest second mortage frauds ever in this country way back in 1991 with NovaStar Financial. As I recall, his whole family except his kids and wife went to jail. He was accused and convicted of fraud.
Victims of Freedlanders Inc (Eric's company which his mother founded) ranged from people with modest incomes, oral surgeons to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For Eric, trying to defraud Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was his undoing. I have no doubt that some on Wall Street did similar things to people from all walks of life.
His crimes had people questioning the oversight of the second mortage industry. Eric, his brother and mother were all held accountable for their crimes and sentenced. Can the same be said for the for the Eric Freedlanders of Wall Street? Fraud ranged from investment banking, mortages and shadow banking.
When I first heard about NovaStar Financial, I remember thinking oh boy, this is Freedlander Inc all over again. People said of this company that they would give a mortage to a corpse. Its' practices caught the attention of a money manager named Marc Cohodes who shared his findings with the regulators at SEC as early as 2003. An investagtion by Marc showed that Novastar lending practices were lax and full of hidden fees and he shared his findings with S.E.C.
Let us consider Patrica and Richardo Jordan. They bought a house for 30k in southwestern Atlanta, GA. She was the sole breadwinner as Richardo was a disabled vet. The couple were described as being very trusting and fincally unsophicated. Patrica had a 9 percent adjustable loan that she wanted to change to a fixed rate loan. She got a loan from Nova at 10% percent. She thought it was a fixed interest rate. It wasn't till 2 years later that she discovered that Novastar had put her into an adjustable loan instead of the promised fixed loan. Was it her fault that she was duped? This is just one case. There were many many more like hers.
Yet despite the numberous lawsuits against NovaStar, Marc Cohodes' calls to S.E.C and audits by Aurora Loan Services (a Lehman subdidary) which was so alarmed by its' audits of NovaStar Finacial that they recommended this "broker be terminated", NovaStar never was made accountable by S.E.C. The audit by Aurora should have been enough to get S.E.C's attention. To the best of my knowledge, neither W.Lance Anderson or Scott Hartman (co-founders of NovaStars) were sued by S.E.C or any other regulators. They didn't go to jail for what clearly was fraud.
To makes matters worse for the victims of NovaStar, NovaStar isn't actually a bank so it was not subject to the same regulations as banks. The closet thing this company had to an overseer was an occasional state regulator who took action when it was discovered that this company's independant sales people weren't licensed. Eric Freedlander wasn't so lucky.
Anyway, in any other professions that are directly connected to the welfare of it's clients, there are codes of ethics and/or regulations that are set up to protect those clients who use these services. If doctors, nurses, social workers, pyschologists, dentists etc were to abuse or defraud their clients and got caught, they'd go to jail for sure, face possible lawsuits and/or lose their licenses. I see no reason why the the professionals in the Fianace Industry or the Banking industry or anything related should be exampt from these standards.
I'm no Wall Street wizard but I can predict the outcome if reforms aren't made. If those who would defend the pratices or rail against regulations designed to protect an industry's clients from unethical people and companies, people will lost trust in the commerce and financial industry.
The last time such an implosion of trust happened was way back in the 1933 when congressionals hearing conducted in 1933 showed that many brokers and banks were guilty of deceptive and disreputable practices and gross misuses of public trust. it was not until the late 1950s that financial insituitons regained the trust of the public. If these issues are not adressed, America's financial institutions may never regain the public trust in our lifetimes.
We need a 21 century verison of George Bailey to run our financial insitutions and a 21 century of Jefferson Smith in the Congress. It is hoped they show up soon.

 

[deafskeptic]

It took me several days write my last post and i had to cut out a lot out of it. Anyway, here's my answer.

 

[TXgolfer]

It took me several days write my last post and i had to cut out a lot out of it. Anyway, here's my answer.

While it's good that it was paid back but there still accountablity issues and I don't want a repeat of 2008.
Evidence please? Did most of them end up in jail for white collar crimes? I can cite cases where those who enaged in questionable practices got away with little punishment and accountably.
While there are expectations to the rule like Eric M. Fleedlander who is said to have committed one of the largest second mortage frauds ever in this country way back in 1991 with NovaStar Financial. As I recall, his whole family except his kids and wife went to jail. He was accused and convicted of fraud.
Victims of Freedlanders Inc (Eric's company which his mother founded) ranged from people with modest incomes, oral surgeons to Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. For Eric, trying to defraud Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was his undoing. I have no doubt that some on Wall Street did similar things to people from all walks of life.
His crimes had people questioning the oversight of the second mortage industry. Eric, his brother and mother were all held accountable for their crimes and sentenced. Can the same be said for the for the Eric Freedlanders of Wall Street? Fraud ranged from investment banking, mortages and shadow banking.
When I first heard about NovaStar Financial, I remember thinking oh boy, this is Freedlander Inc all over again. People said of this company that they would give a mortage to a corpse. Its' practices caught the attention of a money manager named Marc Cohodes who shared his findings with the regulators at SEC as early as 2003. An investagtion by Marc showed that Novastar lending practices were lax and full of hidden fees and he shared his findings with S.E.C.
Let us consider Patrica and Richardo Jordan. They bought a house for 30k in southwestern Atlanta, GA. She was the sole breadwinner as Richardo was a disabled vet. The couple were described as being very trusting and fincally unsophicated. Patrica had a 9 percent adjustable loan that she wanted to change to a fixed rate loan. She got a loan from Nova at 10% percent. She thought it was a fixed interest rate. It wasn't till 2 years later that she discovered that Novastar had put her into an adjustable loan instead of the promised fixed loan. Was it her fault that she was duped? This is just one case. There were many many more like hers.
Yet despite the numberous lawsuits against NovaStar, Marc Cohodes' calls to S.E.C and audits by Aurora Loan Services (a Lehman subdidary) which was so alarmed by its' audits of NovaStar Finacial that they recommended this "broker be terminated", NovaStar never was made accountable by S.E.C. The audit by Aurora should have been enough to get S.E.C's attention. To the best of my knowledge, neither W.Lance Anderson or Scott Hartman (co-founders of NovaStars) were sued by S.E.C or any other regulators. They didn't go to jail for what clearly was fraud.
To makes matters worse for the victims of NovaStar, NovaStar isn't actually a bank so it was not subject to the same regulations as banks. The closet thing this company had to an overseer was an occasional state regulator who took action when it was discovered that this company's independant sales people weren't licensed. Eric Freedlander wasn't so lucky.
Anyway, in any other professions that are directly connected to the welfare of it's clients, there are codes of ethics and/or regulations that are set up to protect those clients who use these services. If doctors, nurses, social workers, pyschologists, dentists etc were to abuse or defraud their clients and got caught, they'd go to jail for sure, face possible lawsuits and/or lose their licenses. I see no reason why the the professionals in the Fianace Industry or the Banking industry or anything related should be exampt from these standards.
I'm no Wall Street wizard but I can predict the outcome if reforms aren't made. If those who would defend the pratices or rail against regulations designed to protect an industry's clients from unethical people and companies, people will lost trust in the commerce and financial industry.
The last time such an implosion of trust happened was way back in the 1933 when congressionals hearing conducted in 1933 showed that many brokers and banks were guilty of deceptive and disreputable practices and gross misuses of public trust. it was not until the late 1950s that financial insituitons regained the trust of the public. If these issues are not adressed, America's financial institutions may never regain the public trust in our lifetimes.
We need a 21 century verison of George Bailey to run our financial insitutions and a 21 century of Jefferson Smith in the Congress. It is hoped they show up soon.

http://www.novastarfinancial.com/Documents/notice.pdf

and

NOVASTAR no longer underwrites mortgages. Its shares were delisted by the New York Stock Exchange and now trade for about 41 cents a share. The company, a shadow of its former self, runs a property appraiser and a financial services unit that provides banking services “to meet the needs of low- and moderate-income-level individuals.”

In a 2010 report to shareholders, Mr. Anderson reported that the company had “several interesting initiatives under way.” Mr. Hartman has left the company. At the end of 2009, NovaStar management concluded that the company’s financial reporting was “not effective.”

In any case, by 2006, the wheels had started to come off the NovaStar cart. The company’s net income that year was less than half what it earned in 2005. The company faced a number of lawsuits, including a class action filed in Washington State in December 2005 alleging that NovaStar failed to disclose to borrowers the fees earned by brokers. Plaintiffs contended that NovaStar had violated consumer protection laws. In 2007, NovaStar agreed to pay $5.1 million to resolve the claims of about 1,600 Washington borrowers.

As the housing bubble inflated, NovaStar was able to convince many of its shareholders that its mistakes were honest ones and were immaterial to its growing business. The company hired Lanny Davis, a well-connected lobbyist and public relations operative, to run interference. Mr. Davis was used to operating in a crucible; he had been special counsel to President Bill Clinton during the Monica Lewinsky scandal.

The Jordans had bought their three-bedroom home in a middle-class section of southwestern Atlanta in 1983 for $30,000. Ms. Jordan had made many improvements on the property, putting up a fence and installing an attic fan and air-conditioning. The sole breadwinner in the family, she supported her husband, a physically and mentally disabled Vietnam veteran. In 2000, she retired and they lived on Social Security and veteran benefits.

In 2004, she had a 9 percent adjustable-rate mortgage that she wanted to change to a fixed-rate loan. She received an offer in the mail from NovaStar and called the toll-free number.

NovaStar settled with the Jordans in 2010. The terms were undisclosed.

You left out that the Chief complainer decided to short the company using insider info BRFORE complaining to the S.E.C. Or maybe that is what you cut out.

You wouldn’t believe the things that go on there, his brother-in-law had told him.

So Mr. Cohodes, a money manager in Marin County, Calif., decided to bet against one of the big names of the subprime age: NovaStar Financial.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/22/business/22excerpt.html?pagewanted=all

 

[Jiro]

Just a peaceful demonstration.... Nothing to see here

WHDH-TV - Boston Police website hacked

I didn't click on the link since you said there's nothing to see.

beside - what's the point of saying that when you post a link? Passive Aggressiveness is my major pet peeve. It makes me want to act like an aristocrat looking down on gnats to remind them of their place that they should not speak out if they do not want to offend anybody

 

[TXgolfer]

I didn't click on the link since you said there's nothing to see.

beside - what's the point of saying that when you post a link? Passive Aggressiveness is my major pet peeve. It makes me want to act like an aristocrat looking down on gnats to remind them of their place that they should not speak out if they do not want to offend anybody

 

[TXgolfer]

and this

The NovaStar lawsuit, which was first filed on February 23, 2007, was one of the first subprime-related securities class action lawsuits to be filed. Background regarding the lawsuit can be found here. The lawsuit alleges that NovaStar, a real estate investment trust, lacked adequate internal controls, as a result of which the company materially misstated its financial results and condition. The lawsuit followed the company’s February 20, 2007 announcement of disappointing results and deteriorating marketplace conditions.

Judge Smith granted the motion to dismiss on the grounds that the complaint does not adequately plead falsity and does not adequately plead scienter.

In addressing the falsity requirements, Judge Smith noted the PSLRA’s specificity requirements, and observed that the complaint, despite its over 100 pages and over 200 paragraphs “presents a very broad picture, and Plaintiff discusses his claims in generalities – precisely what the PSLRA counsels against.” This, Judge Smith said, allowed the Complaint to “create the illusion of detail and insinuate the existence of fraud, which in turn has made it exceedingly difficult for the Court to conduct the analysis required by law.”After reviewing the complaint’s specific allegations of falsity and finding them each in turn to be inadequate, Judge Smith concluded that “ultimately, Plaintiff fails to identify a single false entry in the Company’s financial statements, nor does he identify the ‘truth’ that should have been disclosed.” Judge Smith goes on to add that the Complaint “reads more like a cautionary tale from a treatise on business management than a charge of knowing misstatements and concealments.” Companies, the court said, “are not expected to be clairvoyant and bad decisions do not constitute fraud.”[/QUOTE]

 

[TWA]

Just a peaceful demonstration.... Nothing to see here

WHDH-TV - Boston Police website hacked

Obviously you didn't read the article, especially the part where the Occupy Boston participants said they did not support or condone the hacking of the BPA website, which was carried out by people outside of the protest.

 

[TXgolfer]

Obviously you didn't read the article, especially the part where the Occupy Boston participants said they did not support or condone the hacking of the BPA website, which was carried out by people outside of the protest.

Yeah.... I read the whole thing. I, like most people, don't believe them.

Plus I wouldn't actually call this a denial

“I don’t see how actions like that would support the movement and I would encourage people to disassociate themselves with that because I think it’s wildly incongruent with the message of the movement,” said another protestor.

I'm sure the Fawkes masks are just a coincidence too.

 

[TXgolfer]

And they support Mumia now too it appears....

15 Occupy Philly Protesters Arrested

 

[TXgolfer]

Police Investigating Possible Sexual Assault Of Teen At Occupy Dallas « CBS Dallas / Fort Worth

Some members of the group told CBS 11 they never knew the girl was 14 and that she had claimed to be 19 years old.

Police were alerted after someone recognized the girl from a picture seen on a flyer asking for help locating a missing teen.

When police took the girl into custody Sunday afternoon she reportedly told them she had been having sex with a man in his 20’s at the Occupy Dallas encampment and had engaged in sexual activity with several other people

Occupy Dallas organizers told CBS 11 they’ll implement a 10 p.m. curfew and check the identification of anyone seen walking the grounds after that time.

That doesn't sound like freedom to me......I wonder where they get the authority to check ID in a public area.....

 

[TWA]

I think it's funny how big tex here is trying as hard as he can to discredit the movement by focusing on the actions of just a few of the alleged participants.

I see a lot of negative similarities between the Tea Party movement and the OWS (anger-reactionary driven/no direction/unfocused/etc). But one big difference I see is that the critics of the Tea Party attacked the movement as a whole and focused on the issues, whereas the critics of OWS are using the actions of a few to discredit the movement. That's a losing game plan.

 

[TXgolfer]

I think it's funny how big tex here is trying as hard as he can to discredit the movement by focusing on the actions of just a few of the alleged participants.

I see a lot of negative similarities between the Tea Party movement and the OWS (anger-reactionary driven/no direction/unfocused/etc). But one big difference I see is that the critics of the Tea Party attacked the movement as a whole and focused on the issues, whereas the critics of OWS are using the actions of a few to discredit the movement. That's a losing game plan.

Yeah yeah....no one ever called the Tea Party racist or anything. It was all issues.

And...."actions of a few" Yeah right... I will post them all if you want.

And we have discussed issues....Like the crybabies taking out loans and not wanting to pay them back. Or getting an English or History degree and expecting a real world job.

 

[TWA]

Yeah yeah....no one ever called the Tea Party racist or anything. It was all issues.

I remember one instance where a top-level Tea partier sent out a racist email to his organization comparing Obama to a monkey. That wasn't an isolated incident. That exposed a mentality of that particular organization as a whole. If I can remember clearly, you defended that email and said it wasn't racist. Shocker!

And...."actions of a few" Yeah right... I will post them all if you want.

No, I think you've had your fun. And please stop with the passive aggressive happy faces. They get really annoying.

And we have discussed issues....Like the crybabies taking out loans and not wanting to pay them back. Or getting an English or History degree and expecting a real world job.

And that wasn't enough for you, so now you're posting this crud. Start a new thread and post your shit there. Only the people who want to see it have to. Oh hell, this thread has pretty much run its course anyway . . .

 

[TXgolfer]

I remember one instance where a top-level Tea partier sent out a racist email to his organization comparing Obama to a monkey. That wasn't an isolated incident. That exposed a mentality of that particular organization as a whole. If I can remember clearly, you defended that email and said it wasn't racist. Shocker!

Not exactly...but you made my point. Thanks

No, I think you've had your fun.

Not really about fun.. Just exposing the group for who they are. And I haven't even gotten started on the union connections. It's wise for people to consider the source of this "movement" IMO.

And that wasn't enough for you, so now you're posting this crud. Start a new thread and post your shit there. Only the people who want to see it have to. Oh hell, this thread has pretty much run its course anyway . . .

Crud? It's part of the statement in the OP.

 

[Reba]

I think it's funny how big tex here is trying as hard as he can to discredit the movement by focusing on the actions of just a few of the alleged participants.

I see a lot of negative similarities between the Tea Party movement and the OWS (anger-reactionary driven/no direction/unfocused/etc). But one big difference I see is that the critics of the Tea Party attacked the movement as a whole and focused on the issues, whereas the critics of OWS are using the actions of a few to discredit the movement. That's a losing game plan.

I seem to recall Tea Party participants were called "tea baggers," Nazis, and racists. People mocked what they wore, how old they were, and the signs that they carried. They were fodder for late night TV humor.

It's true that the Tea Partiers weren't criticized for their behavior at their rallies. They were a pretty sedate, tidy crowd.

 

[saywhatkid]

I seem to recall Tea Party participants were called "tea baggers," Nazis, and racists. People mocked what they wore, how old they were, and the signs that they carried. They were fodder for late night TV humor.

It's true that the Tea Partiers weren't criticized for their behavior at their rallies. They were a pretty sedate, tidy crowd.

Right, the senior citizen kind of protest. "No new taxes...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" :P

 

[TXgolfer]

Right, the senior citizen kind of protest. "No new taxes...zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz" :P

Maybe they were tired from working during the week instead of camping.

 

[saywhatkid]

Maybe they were tired from working during the week instead of camping.

Maybe they are used to taking naps at midday, since they have retired to golfing and traveling around the country.

 

[TXgolfer]

Maybe they are used to taking naps at midday, since they have retired to golfing and traveling around the country.